Hypoadiponectinemia and obesity - keeping it straight

[Guest guest]

Hi Rodney,

I am hurried today and hope I did not make any large errors or omissions

here.

Before I contribute to this thread, I go on notice: I know that lowering

calories is required to reverse all types of obesity, presently. However,

there is increasing evidence that the seminar cause of all obesity is NOT

overeating, according to the standard recommendations for diet. Yes, if one

reduces calories low enough, weight reduction will occur, but some people

will retain fat more easily and more often then others eating similarly.

This paper sheds some light on one possible factor.

2nd sentence of abstract: " Hypoadiponectinemia, caused by interactions of

genetic factors such as SNPs in the Adiponectin gene and environmental

factors causing obesity, appears to play an important causal role in insulin

resistance, type 2 diabetes, and the metabolic syndrome, which are linked to

obesity. "

From this (borne out in the rest of the paper) we know:

hypoadiponetinemia is caused by the interaction of

1) genetic factors

2) environmental factors which also cause obesity

3) but not necessarily the obesity itself - that may or may not be, but

is not stated

here

and

hypoadiponectinemia (not necessarily obesity) appears to be causal for

1) insulin resistence

2) type II diabetes

3) metabolic syndrome

and

hypoadiponectinemia is associated with obesity (does not state whether or

not it is causative, and paper does not investigate that).

and

obesity may or may not be associated with type II diabetes, in a particular

person (e.g., not all obese people are diabetic)

Nowhere in this paper did I see that obesity CAUSES hyadiponectinemia.

Another paper,

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/6/1745?ijkey=fe0d6d75be\

36b08d8449eee2c0ebb8b20c83db63 & keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

states that adiponectin is a known predictor of type II diabetes in Pima

Indians. It does not say that obesity is.

You gloss over the fact that the lowering of the Adiponectin is strongly

positively associated with various genes. It is in the presence of these

genes that the obesity, associated with diabetes type II, occurs - not

otherwise, despite food intake or obesity.

I followed the citation given for the sentence you cite: " .... insulin

resistance caused by obesity, a state of increased adiposity " . You seem to

conclude from that sentence that the paper is stating that obesity causes

the insulin resistence, but the paper cited is not verifying that at all,

from the abstract. It is focused on the biochemical pathways under

discussion, not the cause of weight gain.

We often assume that the sole cause of weight gain is calorie intake.

However, Ravussin's work shows (in a paper I cited yesterday) that in Pima

Indians, low resting metabolic rate PRECEDES obesity. So, you don't know

for sure, from the papers we have reviewed so far, whether low

adiponectinemia precedes obesity or not. We do know that it is inversely

related to weight gain, decreasing continuously as obesity increases. But,

nowhere in that paper was it verifed that weight gain PRECEDES

hypoadiponectinemia. If the root cause of the hypoadiponectinemia is

genetic, then of course, hypoadipondectinemia probably precedes weight gain,

and may be causitive of obesity in the presence of surplus food and/or other

environmental factors, regardless of whether obesity further lowers it,

which may also occur.

And here is evidence that the fat is not the source of the problem, but

perhaps just another symptom of the problem:

http://mednewsarchive.wustl.edu/medadmin/PAnews.nsf/0/5CB0B012B243098F86256EAF00\

7964F1

I remain interested in what else we will discover here about the true and

complex nature of obesity.

Best,

Kayce

From: " Rodney " <perspect1111@...>Hi JW:

Thanks for that link again. I took another look at it over the

weekend. I think you are going to have to explain to me what you

believe the significance of that paper to be, because it seems I do

not get the same message from it you do.

This is what I understand it to say:

1. Adiponectin (ADPN) is " abundantly expressed in adipose tissue " . I

might have thought that would mean that people with lots of adipose

tissue would have plenty of ADPN, but apparently the opposite is true.

2. ADPN sensitizes the body to insulin (so more of it

is 'good'). " Adiponectin is an adipokine that is specifically and

abundantly expressed in adipose tissue and directly sensitizes the

body to insulin " . So too little of it causes insulin resistance,

which is bad news. At the end of the second paragraph it says: " ....

insulin resistance caused by obesity, a state of increased

adiposity " . It does not say: " obesity caused by insulin resistance "

the latter of which, as already noted, is caused by insufficient ADPN.

3. Inadequate ADPN is caused by the interaction of genetic factors

and obesity. First paragraph: " hypoadiponectinemia, caused by

interactions of genetic factors such as SNPs in the Adiponectin gene

and environmental factors causing obesity " . Note: not the other way

around ...... not that adiponectin causes obesity.

4. Obesity, they say, is caused by " environmental factors " . See the

quote immediately above. Initially I took that to mean things like

air pollution. But reading further down it becomes apparent that

their use of the term " environmental factors " means in an environment

of an abundant and attractive food supply. In the third paragraph it

says: " While white adipose tissue (WAT) provides a survival advantage

in times of starvation, excess WAT is now linked to obesity-related

health problems IN THE CURRENTLY NUTRITIONALLY RICH ENVIRONMENT " (my

caps, for emphasis). So the " environment " factor that is seen by this

paper as a cause of obesity refers to a 'nutritionally abundant' food

supply.

So, as I read it, the original causation is an abundant food supply;

this results in obesity; obesity causes too little ADPN; insufficient

ADPN causes insulin resistance (and metabolic syndrome, etc.). This

is not especially surprising as many here, I think, have supposed that

this was the route of causation.

If you have a different view of this, JW, please say so.

Rodney.

>

> Please read this again and try to understand the obese are suffering

a problem in hormone balance. They don't suffer from denial.

> http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/116/7/1784?

maxtoshow= & HITS=10 & hits=10 & RESULTFORMAT= & fulltext=adiponectin & andorexac

tfulltext=and & searchid=1 & FIRSTINDEX=0 & sortspec=relevance & resourcetype=H

WCIT

> Adiponectin and adiponectin receptors in insulin resistance,

diabetes, and the metabolic syndrome

>

> Regards.

>