Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 Hi folks: Here is a statistic for you: I realize not everyone will go for this suggestion, lol, but here it is. Suppose you eat a diet which is largely vegetarian, with only small amounts of animal products, and suppose you are concerned (and you should be) about whether your intake of vitamin B-12 is adequate. What is the best way to get the B-12 you need in a food form rather than supplement, by eating the smallest possible amount of some animal product or other? Well the answer seems to be to eat a small amount of liver. From crunching a few numbers here is is pretty clear that liver is remarkably well endowed with nutrients - containing the highest non- calorie nutrient content per 100 calories of all meat products for which I have seen data. Which is not altogether surprising as, as I understand it, one of the more important of the many functions the liver serves is as storage for important nutrients. I basicly stopped eating liver back in 1969 when I discovered its fat and cholesterol content. But my cat just loves the stuff, so I give him a treat of it every month or so. But I like the taste and particularly the texture of it too so I cannot resist eating a few pieces myself each time I cook him some. Now here is the statistic: Assuming you are getting zero B-12 from any other source, just four grams (yes grams, not ounces) of beef liver daily would provide all the B-12 you need. Perhaps not a bad solution for people who do not mind eating a tiny amount of animal products daily. Especially when you consider it contains a lot of other good nutrients as well. Rodney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2006 Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 For vegetarians, eggs are a good source of B-12. Vegans, of course don't eat eggs or liver. One possible problem with liver is that the liver in an animal's body collects all the toxins . So there used to be some concern with eating liver. I don't know if that's been proven to be an " old wives tale " or really true (no doubt someone will let us know). on 9/30/2006 11:03 AM, Rodney at perspect1111@... wrote: Hi folks: Here is a statistic for you: I realize not everyone will go for this suggestion, lol, but here it is. Suppose you eat a diet which is largely vegetarian, with only small amounts of animal products, and suppose you are concerned (and you should be) about whether your intake of vitamin B-12 is adequate. What is the best way to get the B-12 you need in a food form rather than supplement, by eating the smallest possible amount of some animal product or other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Unless someone is consuming a 100% pure vegan diet with no processed or refined foods, B12 is not really an issue.. Some point.. 1) B12 deficiency is very common amongst the regular populations, so B12 deficiencies dont always have to due with dietary intake. 2) the liver has a 3-5 year store of B12, so, someone would need to be off all dietary B12 for at least that time 3) if a vegan is consuming products like soymilk, veggie burgers, whole grain breads, crackers, cereals, B12 is added to many if not most of them 4)if someone was B12 deficient, or concerned, a wanted to be a pure vegan and not include fortified foods, one could easily take a daily (or weekly) supplement of it. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Jeff Novick wrote: > > Unless someone is consuming a 100% pure vegan diet > with no processed or refined foods, B12 is not really > an issue.. > That said, it really happens. A physics professor I know was on a strict vegan diet and suffered from B-12 deficiency. His doctors were quite mystified for a while. A meat diet can get you too. A high school physics teacher I know was a serious carnivore who was into red meat and supplements. He took it a little too far and wound up in the hospital suffering from an overload of iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 > > > > Unless someone is consuming a 100% pure vegan diet > > with no processed or refined foods, B12 is not really > > an issue.. > > > > > > > > That said, it really happens. A physics professor I know was on a > strict vegan diet and suffered from B-12 deficiency. His doctors were > quite mystified for a while. > > A meat diet can get you too. A high school physics teacher I know was > a serious carnivore who was into red meat and supplements. He took it a > little too far and wound up in the hospital suffering from an overload > of iron. > There are far greater risks to a meat-laden diet than iron overload, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 , Now THAT is one mind-blowing idea I hadn't thought of! (vitamin levels high in blood because they are not being utilized properly by the body) I wonder what would keep B12 from going from the blood to the rest of the body. That relates somewhat to with what Selma said about the critters having a B-vitamin picnic in our intestines. If that were so, then I would think the B-vitamins wouldn't even make it to the bloodstream. I do recall seeing a big improvement when I add B-Complex to my daily supplements. Maybe some of the Bs help (I know B-6 is good for PMS), but maybe B12 just doesn't get through for some Lyme-related reason. So, three of us on this list so far with high levels of B12. I wonder if even some of the Lyme docs are off course on this one, thinking we're okay if our B12 comes out high (mine seems to). Anyone reading this who came out low on B12? Ann In a message dated 11/9/06 2:07:32 PM, j_genser@... writes: > I had that issue too. My B12 showed up high and my dr said it was a good > thing. The more I > thought about it (ie how B12 is typically deficient in those with digestive > disease) the more it > made sense that my levels were high in blood because they were not being > utilized properly > by body. Never got to the bottom of it though... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Ann, I have low B-12. Joyce Grpinfo@... wrote: , Now THAT is one mind-blowing idea I hadn't thought of! (vitamin levels high in blood because they are not being utilized properly by the body) I wonder what would keep B12 from going from the blood to the rest of the body. That relates somewhat to with what Selma said about the critters having a B-vitamin picnic in our intestines. If that were so, then I would think the B-vitamins wouldn't even make it to the bloodstream. I do recall seeing a big improvement when I add B-Complex to my daily supplements. Maybe some of the Bs help (I know B-6 is good for PMS), but maybe B12 just doesn't get through for some Lyme-related reason. So, three of us on this list so far with high levels of B12. I wonder if even some of the Lyme docs are off course on this one, thinking we're okay if our B12 comes out high (mine seems to). Anyone reading this who came out low on B12? Ann In a message dated 11/9/06 2:07:32 PM, j_genser@... writes: > I had that issue too. My B12 showed up high and my dr said it was a good > thing. The more I > thought about it (ie how B12 is typically deficient in those with digestive > disease) the more it > made sense that my levels were high in blood because they were not being > utilized properly > by body. Never got to the bottom of it though... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Ann Giardia also metabolizes B12 in the intestines. but you would have clues - like if you have really large blood cells - i can't remember what it's called - macrocytic anemia, i think. i have this -and it's a sign of B12 and folic deficiency despite having really high blood levels of it. you're right - it means something in your intestines is metabolizing it. Steve On Nov 9, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Grpinfo@... wrote: > , > > Now THAT is one mind-blowing idea I hadn't thought of! (vitamin > levels high > in blood because they are not being utilized properly by the body) > > I wonder what would keep B12 from going from the blood to the rest of > the > body. > > That relates somewhat to with what Selma said about the critters > having a > B-vitamin picnic in our intestines. If that were so, then I would > think the > B-vitamins wouldn't even make it to the bloodstream. > > I do recall seeing a big improvement when I add B-Complex to my daily > supplements. Maybe some of the Bs help (I know B-6 is good for PMS), > but maybe B12 > just doesn't get through for some Lyme-related reason. > > So, three of us on this list so far with high levels of B12. I wonder > if even > some of the Lyme docs are off course on this one, thinking we're okay > if our > B12 comes out high (mine seems to). > > Anyone reading this who came out low on B12? > > Ann > > In a message dated 11/9/06 2:07:32 PM, j_genser@... writes: > > > I had that issue too. My B12 showed up high and my dr said it was a > good > > thing. The more I > > thought about it (ie how B12 is typically deficient in those with > digestive > > disease) the more it > > made sense that my levels were high in blood because they were not > being > > utilized properly > > by body. Never got to the bottom of it though... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Steve and all, Interesting about Giardia. About 6-8 mo ago stool tests came up with giardia and other parasites. Supposedly,all are gone,now after treatment. Its also interesting to me that I was tested for parasites over the yrs and none showed. Then after starting to kill lyme they showed up. Go figure. Maybe the peeling the onion,layer effect. Joyce steve <xanax006@...> wrote: Ann Giardia also metabolizes B12 in the intestines. but you would have clues - like if you have really large blood cells - i can't remember what it's called - macrocytic anemia, i think. i have this -and it's a sign of B12 and folic deficiency despite having really high blood levels of it. you're right - it means something in your intestines is metabolizing it. Steve On Nov 9, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Grpinfo@... wrote: > , > > Now THAT is one mind-blowing idea I hadn't thought of! (vitamin > levels high > in blood because they are not being utilized properly by the body) > > I wonder what would keep B12 from going from the blood to the rest of > the > body. > > That relates somewhat to with what Selma said about the critters > having a > B-vitamin picnic in our intestines. If that were so, then I would > think the > B-vitamins wouldn't even make it to the bloodstream. > > I do recall seeing a big improvement when I add B-Complex to my daily > supplements. Maybe some of the Bs help (I know B-6 is good for PMS), > but maybe B12 > just doesn't get through for some Lyme-related reason. > > So, three of us on this list so far with high levels of B12. I wonder > if even > some of the Lyme docs are off course on this one, thinking we're okay > if our > B12 comes out high (mine seems to). > > Anyone reading this who came out low on B12? > > Ann > > In a message dated 11/9/06 2:07:32 PM, j_genser@... writes: > > > I had that issue too. My B12 showed up high and my dr said it was a > good > > thing. The more I > > thought about it (ie how B12 is typically deficient in those with > digestive > > disease) the more it > > made sense that my levels were high in blood because they were not > being > > utilized properly > > by body. Never got to the bottom of it though... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 i've tested low b12. 3years ago, one doc had me taking IM injections 3cc 3xweek, which was no fun at all to give myself--that's a big needle into thigh muscle and a lot of fluid. and i have tremors in hand and leg, so difficult to give self inject. didn't notice any improvement, so stopped. new doc, been taking special compounded methylcobalamine (mB12) injections (per dr. tielbaum's protocol for cfs) for about 1 year. this version is only 1ml (just tiny amount and tiny needle given subcutaneous, very easy vs. IM) 4x week. when i tried stopping, the neuropathic pains in my feet and legs got worse. when i restarted the b12, those pains eased up again. so my doc says to stay on the shots. tried iv 3 times (Bvits with vit c and mag) and didnot tolerate at all--felt MUCH worse from iv. kendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Hi Kendra, You are the first one in yrs that I have heard of that had the those BIG painful shots like I had. I was in my middle 20's and they did make me feel good. Really helped with emotions. Now I get the little needles. Ahhh! Much better. Joyce kendra <kendraz@...> wrote: i've tested low b12. 3years ago, one doc had me taking IM injections 3cc 3xweek, which was no fun at all to give myself--that's a big needle into thigh muscle and a lot of fluid. and i have tremors in hand and leg, so difficult to give self inject. didn't notice any improvement, so stopped. new doc, been taking special compounded methylcobalamine (mB12) injections (per dr. tielbaum's protocol for cfs) for about 1 year. this version is only 1ml (just tiny amount and tiny needle given subcutaneous, very easy vs. IM) 4x week. when i tried stopping, the neuropathic pains in my feet and legs got worse. when i restarted the b12, those pains eased up again. so my doc says to stay on the shots. tried iv 3 times (Bvits with vit c and mag) and didnot tolerate at all--felt MUCH worse from iv. kendra --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 my doc always looks at my MCV on my blood tests. if it is high, she makes me take B-12 injections. once it is normal, I stop. she says MCV is the only way to tell if someone is truly B-12 deficient. and, you are correct, the hydroxocobalamin is the only one worth taking. On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:46 PM, jaynelcrocker <jaynelcrocker@...> wrote:  Something I found of interest and wasn't aware of is that there are two types of Vitamin B12, Hydroxocobalamin or Cyanocobalamin. It appears from this article that hydroxocobalamin is the one we want if we are going to supplement our diets with Vit B-12.  Vitamin B-12 is an essential nutrient needed to make red blood cells that carry oxygen throughout the body, the myelin sheath that surrounds nerve cells, and various proteins. It also plays a role in fat and carbohydrate metabolism. Yet, despite its importance to overall health, vitamin B-12 deficiency is relatively common. It is estimated that up to 15% of the general population may be deficient in B-12 - and more among those with chronic illnesses. In order for the B-12 obtained from food to be absorbed it must attach to a protein called intrinsic factor, which is secreted in the stomach. Unfortunately, a number of things can inhibit the secretion of intrinsic factor, which in turn blocks the absorption of B-12 and results in a vitamin B-12 deficiency. A B-12 deficiency can be difficult to diagnose because serum blood levels of B-12 may test normal. Having circulating B-12 in blood doesn't mean it is being utilized properly by the body's cells. Some doctors suggest that a test measuring methylmalonyl coenzyme A levels in the urine gives a more accurate reading of B-12's availability in the body.   Many of the symptoms fibromyalgia and ME/CFS patients report are also symptoms of a B-12 deficiency - cognitive functioning problems, memory loss, and fatigue to name a few. Is that merely a coincidence or is there a connection?  In a 1997 study of 12 patients with fibromyalgia and ME/CFS: Most had little or no detectable B-12 in their cerebrospinal fluid - despite the fact that all had normal B-12 blood levels. When it comes to oral supplementation of B-12, sublingual tablets are the best option because they are absorbed directly into the mucous membrane and don't have to go through the digestion process, which is often the cause of the deficiency to begin with.  http://www.prohealth.com/ep/EP041111/index.cfm?slvor=10621.1037224.0.1.0.382841 & eid=jaynelcrocker  Jayne Crocker  www.LDNNow.com Important! Please sign our LDN petition to the European Parliament by clicking here tel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDN LDNNow are a political/pressure group of individuals dedicated to getting Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) accepted into modern medicine and trialled for the myriad of uses it shows benefit for. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 There are also methyl-cobalamin and adenosyl-cobalamin.On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 6:46 PM, jaynelcrocker <jaynelcrocker@...> wrote: Something I found of interest and wasn't aware of is that there are two types of Vitamin B12, Hydroxocobalamin or Cyanocobalamin. It appears from this article that hydroxocobalamin is the one we want if we are going to supplement our diets with Vit B-12.  Vitamin B-12 is an essential nutrient needed to make red blood cells that carry oxygen throughout the body, the myelin sheath that surrounds nerve cells, and various proteins. It also plays a role in fat and carbohydrate metabolism. Yet, despite its importance to overall health, vitamin B-12 deficiency is relatively common. It is estimated that up to 15% of the general population may be deficient in B-12 - and more among those with chronic illnesses. In order for the B-12 obtained from food to be absorbed it must attach to a protein called intrinsic factor, which is secreted in the stomach. Unfortunately, a number of things can inhibit the secretion of intrinsic factor, which in turn blocks the absorption of B-12 and results in a vitamin B-12 deficiency. A B-12 deficiency can be difficult to diagnose because serum blood levels of B-12 may test normal. Having circulating B-12 in blood doesn't mean it is being utilized properly by the body's cells. Some doctors suggest that a test measuring methylmalonyl coenzyme A levels in the urine gives a more accurate reading of B-12's availability in the body.   Many of the symptoms fibromyalgia and ME/CFS patients report are also symptoms of a B-12 deficiency - cognitive functioning problems, memory loss, and fatigue to name a few. Is that merely a coincidence or is there a connection?  In a 1997 study of 12 patients with fibromyalgia and ME/CFS: Most had little or no detectable B-12 in their cerebrospinal fluid - despite the fact that all had normal B-12 blood levels. When it comes to oral supplementation of B-12, sublingual tablets are the best option because they are absorbed directly into the mucous membrane and don't have to go through the digestion process, which is often the cause of the deficiency to begin with.  http://www.prohealth.com/ep/EP041111/index.cfm?slvor=10621.1037224.0.1.0.382841 & eid=jaynelcrocker  Jayne Crocker  www.LDNNow.com Important! Please sign our LDN petition to the European Parliament by clicking here tel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDN LDNNow are a political/pressure group of individuals dedicated to getting Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) accepted into modern medicine and trialled for the myriad of uses it shows benefit for. .. -- Toni------Mind like a steel trap...Rusty and illegal in 37 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Interesting; thanks for sharing. I’ll have to look into this. J From: jaynelcrocker Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 6:46 PM low dose naltrexone ; LDNandIBD Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Vitamin B-12 Something I found of interest and wasn't aware of is that there are two types of Vitamin B12, Hydroxocobalamin or Cyanocobalamin. It appears from this article that hydroxocobalamin is the one we want if we are going to supplement our diets with Vit B-12. Vitamin B-12 is an essential nutrient needed to make red blood cells that carry oxygen throughout the body, the myelin sheath that surrounds nerve cells, and various proteins. It also plays a role in fat and carbohydrate metabolism. Yet, despite its importance to overall health, vitamin B-12 deficiency is relatively common. It is estimated that up to 15% of the general population may be deficient in B-12 - and more among those with chronic illnesses.In order for the B-12 obtained from food to be absorbed it must attach to a protein called intrinsic factor, which is secreted in the stomach. Unfortunately, a number of things can inhibit the secretion of intrinsic factor, which in turn blocks the absorption of B-12 and results in a vitamin B-12 deficiency. A B-12 deficiency can be difficult to diagnose because serum blood levels of B-12 may test normal. Having circulating B-12 in blood doesn't mean it is being utilized properly by the body's cells. Some doctors suggest that a test measuring methylmalonyl coenzyme A levels in the urine gives a more accurate reading of B-12's availability in the body. Many of the symptoms fibromyalgia and ME/CFS patients report are also symptoms of a B-12 deficiency - cognitive functioning problems, memory loss, and fatigue to name a few. Is that merely a coincidence or is there a connection? In a 1997 study of 12 patients with fibromyalgia and ME/CFS: Most had little or no detectable B-12 in their cerebrospinal fluid - despite the fact that all had normal B-12 blood levels.When it comes to oral supplementation of B-12, sublingual tablets are the best option because they are absorbed directly into the mucous membrane and don't have to go through the digestion process, which is often the cause of the deficiency to begin with. http://www.prohealth.com/ep/EP041111/index.cfm?slvor=10621.1037224.0.1.0.382841 & eid=jaynelcrocker Jayne Crocker www.LDNNow.com Important! Please sign our LDN petition to the European Parliament by clicking here tel: +44 (0) 7877 492 669 Dr Steele MBE, talking about LDN LDNNow are a political/pressure group of individuals dedicated to getting Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) accepted into modern medicine and trialled for the myriad of uses it shows benefit for. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 You can also obtain Vitamin B-12 in liquid form which you take sublingually - from Seek Natural. -- O'Connor Link Associates 015394 41439 www.linkassoc.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I use cyanocobalamin and it works just as well as hydroxocobalamin. Anyone considering the implementation of B12 into their healthcare, should take everything we say "with a grain of salt ". Do your homework, discuss it with your physician, then make your decision. "hydroxocobalamin is the only one worth taking." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 y " Methyl " Vitamin B12 is more effective. There are primarily two different ingredients being used in sublingual b12 supplements. They are cyanocobalamin and methylcobalamin. The cheapest and most common option for use in supplements is cyanocobalamin. Although cyanocobalamin is a good option, the best products on the market are now using methylcobalamin as the primary ingredient. The reason for this is that the liver must convert cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin before the body can utilize it. Methyl B12 supplements contain the most bioavailable and active form of B-12. Since it requires no conversion by the liver, it is in a form ready to be used by the body. Expect to pay more for Methyl B12, but the increased effectivness will make it worth the cost. http://www.nutrasanus.com/vitamin-b12.html I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter.SPAMfighter has removed 3258 of my spam emails to date.Do you have a slow PC? Try free scan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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