Re: Re: Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron and fat storage

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that there are scenarios that you did not mention. If

two people of same weight,. same LBM on the Tanita, get same number of

diet/calories, & same exercise, that each may lose or gain fat

differently. Do you disbelieve this? The hormonal system (most notably

insulin) seems to factor heavily in fat gain & fat retention. Perhaps

what you're saying, is that given all the possible genetic odds (e.g.

fat gene, Pima indians, etc) that any one can fight any inherent

physical/genetic odds as easily as someone with all the good odds. The

jury is out for me, because there's too many things science does not yet

understand. I do believe that exercise tends to level (improve) the

playing field for a body that is 'ill' genetically or from disease.

Rodney wrote:

>Hi folks:

>

>Well count me skeptical on this for now.

>

>Are we logically to conclude from this that those who are able to

>restrain their food intake and maintain a very healthy weight are by definition

sick because the only way anyone should be expected to be able to control how

much they eat is if they do not have the right flora in their intestines to

cause the absorption of all the nutients?

>

>And is it only the obese people who are well, because their

>intestines are so much more efficient?

>

>Or are their body temperatures much lower than those of the very

>healthy weight people? I think the opposite is true. Most people on CR have

lower body temperatures, not higher temperatures.

>

>Has it been shown that the feces of very-healthy-weight people are loaded with

unabsorbed calories? Has it been shown they have lower body temperatures? I

think these things need to be demonstrated before I will be able to take this

seriously.

>------

>And as for the claimed increase in adipose, has it been demonstrated that in

these people who add a lot of adipose everything else ........... bone,

organs, brain etc. are reduced in size when these people are on iso-caloric

diets and compared with people who do not have the adenovirus?

>

>Calories do not just appear out of, or disappear into, the air. If they are

eating the same amount and they have added a lot more fat then where did they

get the calories from to do that?

>------

>Or is the argument that these adenoviruses make people uncontrollably and

irresistably hungry? So that it is not their fault they eat more? Or is the

excuse that the virus destroys a person's ability to discipline the amount they

eat?

>

>Or are these people simply no different from the healthy weight

>people, except that they voluntarily choose to eat more?

>------

>It seems to me that none of these studies so far go anywhere remotely close to

providing rational, and credible, answers to the above questions.

>

>

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that there are scenarios that you did not mention. If

two people of same weight,. same LBM on the Tanita, get same number of

diet/calories, & same exercise, that each may lose or gain fat

differently. Do you disbelieve this? The hormonal system (most notably

insulin) seems to factor heavily in fat gain & fat retention. Perhaps

what you're saying, is that given all the possible genetic odds (e.g.

fat gene, Pima indians, etc) that any one can fight any inherent

physical/genetic odds as easily as someone with all the good odds. The

jury is out for me, because there's too many things science does not yet

understand. I do believe that exercise tends to level (improve) the

playing field for a body that is 'ill' genetically or from disease.

Rodney wrote:

>Hi folks:

>

>Well count me skeptical on this for now.

>

>Are we logically to conclude from this that those who are able to

>restrain their food intake and maintain a very healthy weight are by definition

sick because the only way anyone should be expected to be able to control how

much they eat is if they do not have the right flora in their intestines to

cause the absorption of all the nutients?

>

>And is it only the obese people who are well, because their

>intestines are so much more efficient?

>

>Or are their body temperatures much lower than those of the very

>healthy weight people? I think the opposite is true. Most people on CR have

lower body temperatures, not higher temperatures.

>

>Has it been shown that the feces of very-healthy-weight people are loaded with

unabsorbed calories? Has it been shown they have lower body temperatures? I

think these things need to be demonstrated before I will be able to take this

seriously.

>------

>And as for the claimed increase in adipose, has it been demonstrated that in

these people who add a lot of adipose everything else ........... bone,

organs, brain etc. are reduced in size when these people are on iso-caloric

diets and compared with people who do not have the adenovirus?

>

>Calories do not just appear out of, or disappear into, the air. If they are

eating the same amount and they have added a lot more fat then where did they

get the calories from to do that?

>------

>Or is the argument that these adenoviruses make people uncontrollably and

irresistably hungry? So that it is not their fault they eat more? Or is the

excuse that the virus destroys a person's ability to discipline the amount they

eat?

>

>Or are these people simply no different from the healthy weight

>people, except that they voluntarily choose to eat more?

>------

>It seems to me that none of these studies so far go anywhere remotely close to

providing rational, and credible, answers to the above questions.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I believe they could be enough diff to be a squatty Dutch frame like me or a 7 ft bball player, unless they're identical twins, maybe. It seems to me every parameter we use to describe a human is faulty in some way.

For example, we have a protein intake "standard" which is based on a bell curve which in reality doesn't look like a normal distribution. There are a few outliers needing like 224 grams. This serves to move the RDA to the right so much the standard can be > 3 times what the person at the far left needs.

If you divide the people into classes, women are diff from men; some people have very high TC, others < 200; some store fat in belly, some in hips some in shoulders; some families have more cancer or heart disease.

The upshot is to me that I can't blame it on a bacteria in the gut - how would it know where to send the fat?

Especially if I give it the least amount to work with.

I believe the system does favor heavily in fat gain & fat retention.

A survival mechanism.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron and fat storage

It seems to me that there are scenarios that you did not mention. If two people of same weight,. same LBM on the Tanita, get same number of diet/calories, & same exercise, that each may lose or gain fat differently. Do you disbelieve this?

The hormonal system (most notably insulin) seems to factor heavily in fat gain & fat retention. Perhaps what you're saying, is that given all the possible genetic odds (e.g. fat gene, Pima indians, etc) that any one can fight any inherent physical/genetic odds as easily as someone with all the good odds. The jury is out for me, because there's too many things science does not yet understand. I do believe that exercise tends to level (improve) the playing field for a body that is 'ill' genetically or from disease. Rodney wrote:>Hi folks:>>Well count me skeptical on this for now.>>Are we logically to conclude from this that those who are able to >restrain their food intake and maintain a very healthy weight are by definition sick because the only way anyone should be expected to be able to control how much they eat is if they do not have the right flora in their intestines to cause the absorption of all the nutients?>>And is it only the obese people who are well, because their >intestines are so much more efficient?>>Or are their body temperatures much lower than those of the very >healthy weight people? I think the opposite is true. Most people on CR have lower body temperatures, not higher temperatures.>>Has it been shown that the feces of very-healthy-weight people are loaded with unabsorbed calories? Has it been shown they have lower body temperatures? I think these things need to be demonstrated before I will be able to take this seriously.>------>And as for the claimed increase in adipose, has it been demonstrated that in these people who add a lot of adipose everything else ........... bone, organs, brain etc. are reduced in size when these people are on iso-caloric diets and compared with people who do not have the adenovirus?>>Calories do not just appear out of, or disappear into, the air. If they are eating the same amount and they have added a lot more fat then where did they get the calories from to do that?>------>Or is the argument that these adenoviruses make people uncontrollably and irresistably hungry? So that it is not their fault they eat more? Or is the excuse that the virus destroys a person's ability to discipline the amount they eat? >>Or are these people simply no different from the healthy weight >people, except that they voluntarily choose to eat more?>------>It seems to me that none of these studies so far go anywhere remotely close to providing rational, and credible, answers to the above questions.>

[Guest guest]

I believe they could be enough diff to be a squatty Dutch frame like me or a 7 ft bball player, unless they're identical twins, maybe. It seems to me every parameter we use to describe a human is faulty in some way.

For example, we have a protein intake "standard" which is based on a bell curve which in reality doesn't look like a normal distribution. There are a few outliers needing like 224 grams. This serves to move the RDA to the right so much the standard can be > 3 times what the person at the far left needs.

If you divide the people into classes, women are diff from men; some people have very high TC, others < 200; some store fat in belly, some in hips some in shoulders; some families have more cancer or heart disease.

The upshot is to me that I can't blame it on a bacteria in the gut - how would it know where to send the fat?

Especially if I give it the least amount to work with.

I believe the system does favor heavily in fat gain & fat retention.

A survival mechanism.

Regards.

Re: [ ] Re: Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron and fat storage

It seems to me that there are scenarios that you did not mention. If two people of same weight,. same LBM on the Tanita, get same number of diet/calories, & same exercise, that each may lose or gain fat differently. Do you disbelieve this?

The hormonal system (most notably insulin) seems to factor heavily in fat gain & fat retention. Perhaps what you're saying, is that given all the possible genetic odds (e.g. fat gene, Pima indians, etc) that any one can fight any inherent physical/genetic odds as easily as someone with all the good odds. The jury is out for me, because there's too many things science does not yet understand. I do believe that exercise tends to level (improve) the playing field for a body that is 'ill' genetically or from disease. Rodney wrote:>Hi folks:>>Well count me skeptical on this for now.>>Are we logically to conclude from this that those who are able to >restrain their food intake and maintain a very healthy weight are by definition sick because the only way anyone should be expected to be able to control how much they eat is if they do not have the right flora in their intestines to cause the absorption of all the nutients?>>And is it only the obese people who are well, because their >intestines are so much more efficient?>>Or are their body temperatures much lower than those of the very >healthy weight people? I think the opposite is true. Most people on CR have lower body temperatures, not higher temperatures.>>Has it been shown that the feces of very-healthy-weight people are loaded with unabsorbed calories? Has it been shown they have lower body temperatures? I think these things need to be demonstrated before I will be able to take this seriously.>------>And as for the claimed increase in adipose, has it been demonstrated that in these people who add a lot of adipose everything else ........... bone, organs, brain etc. are reduced in size when these people are on iso-caloric diets and compared with people who do not have the adenovirus?>>Calories do not just appear out of, or disappear into, the air. If they are eating the same amount and they have added a lot more fat then where did they get the calories from to do that?>------>Or is the argument that these adenoviruses make people uncontrollably and irresistably hungry? So that it is not their fault they eat more? Or is the excuse that the virus destroys a person's ability to discipline the amount they eat? >>Or are these people simply no different from the healthy weight >people, except that they voluntarily choose to eat more?>------>It seems to me that none of these studies so far go anywhere remotely close to providing rational, and credible, answers to the above questions.>