Guest guest Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Warning! Avoid treating your staff because of the boundary issues involved. I occasionally feel sorry for a staff member and offer very short 6 week treatment plans with definite ending dates. Still I would say that I would not recommend it as it is a legal sinkhole. Willard Bertrand Ethical Question Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and wants you to bill it for treating them? Anglen OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Hi , I can't tell you for certain about the legality in AZ, but I am quite certain that it is legal in OR (any present or past Board members or personnel please speak up if I am wrong). With regard to ethics; most docs offer treatment to their staff at no cost, however, this is a limited benefit as it has a monetary value to the employee. In other words, a plastic surgeon may offer the occasional look in the tonsils for staff but is under no obligation to do a face lift because of it. Likewise, a chiropractic staff member who you have been willing to adjust once or twice a month at no charge as an employee benefit is not entitled to be adjusted 3 times per week also at no charge it he or she has been injured. The value of the perks and benefits that you convey to an employee are discretionary. D Freeman Mailing address: 1230 Liberty Street NE Salem, Oregon 97303 ph 503 586-0127 cell 503 871-0715 Ethical Question Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and wants you to bill it for treating them? Anglen OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Is it ethical?..that depends on your ethics. If you treat them rationally, then it is ethical. Is it legal? Yes. But you can't offer free care and then magically start billing just when there is insurance coverage. J. , DC Springbrook Chiropractic & Natural Health Center 1015 N. Springbrook Rd. Newberg, OR 97132 503-538-0618 www.springbrookclinic.com www.HealthyNewberg.com SANITAS INNATUS EST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Just my opinion, : While it's probably legal, It could be edgy on ethical ground. Frinstance, the employee can be at a disadvantage to critique your treatment or its results for rear of their job. The insurance company, of course, will question the ethics of billing for services provided to an employee --- are they really medically necessary and reasonable?, etc, etc. Better to send the employee to your peer down the street. Art Ethical Question Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and wants you to bill it for treating them? Anglen OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 I believe this is also true in Washington. I do not know of any specific proscription against treating your own employee for a condition that you would treat any other individual for, and billing an insurance carrier in the same way that you would bill anyone else. If all medical personnel were expected to get free unlimited care, then there would be no reason for DC's, MD's RN's etc. to buy health insurance. Not really the case. Treating your employee does have possible conflicts of interest built in, however. What if you think as a DC that she should only work half time (or find a different type of job), because prolonged sitting aggravates her disc, but as an employer, you think she should work overtime to fix that nasty collection problem you have? Roy -- Roy Steinberg DC DABCO Steinberg Consulting Services Inc. 14136 NE 32nd Place Bellevue WA 98007 425-883-8783: voice 425-556-0616: fax > Hi , > I can't tell you for certain about the legality in AZ, but I am quite > certain that it is legal in OR (any present or past Board members or > personnel please speak up if I am wrong). With regard to ethics; most docs > offer treatment to their staff at no cost, however, this is a limited > benefit as it has a monetary value to the employee. In other words, a > plastic surgeon may offer the occasional look in the tonsils for staff but > is under no obligation to do a face lift because of it. Likewise, a > chiropractic staff member who you have been willing to adjust once or twice > a month at no charge as an employee benefit is not entitled to be adjusted 3 > times per week also at no charge it he or she has been injured. The value of > the perks and benefits that you convey to an employee are discretionary. > > D Freeman > Mailing address: 1230 Liberty Street NE > Salem, Oregon 97303 > ph 503 586-0127 > cell 503 871-0715 > > > > Ethical Question > > > Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and wants > you to bill it for treating them? > > Anglen > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 While I believe that it is perfectly ethical to treat staff, I also agree with Art and Willard that in the case of a disgruntled former female employee it could lead to a whole lotta trouble, particularly with allegations of sexual misconduct. Those allegations are a lot more easily made when the doc has been alone in a room with his hands on a staff member's derriere (Logan basic) or breasts (MFTPs in the pecs). D Freeman Mailing address: 1230 Liberty Street NE Salem, Oregon 97303 ph 503 586-0127 cell 503 871-0715 Ethical Question Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and wants you to bill it for treating them? Anglen OregonDCs rules: 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated. 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 While playing defensive has its merits, my staff and I are more like family. I want the best for them and they want the best for me. If their health concern is within my area of expertise, then I have no qualms treating them. Am I unusual or are the others out there like me? jk M. Kalb MS DC The Wellness Chiropractor and Health Coach www.DrKalb.com 541.488.3001/888.488.3001 Ethical Question > > Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and wants > > you to bill it for treating them? > > Anglen > > > OregonDCs rules: > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > members will be tolerated. > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I treat my staff and keep chart notes. I charge according to the service provided and bill insurance the same as any other pilgrim. On several occasions I have referred out due to the nature of the condition. Never been a problem. J. Pedersen DC Ethical Question > > > > Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and > wants > > > > you to bill it for treating them? > > > > Anglen > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > > members will be tolerated. > > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, > > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his > or > > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I'm pretty much in that same dilemma, . Until this discussion, thinking of NOT treating the staff would have been unheard of.....OF COURSE I want my staff at their prime...they are my front desk/initial image/best ( & paid) advertisers/support props etc., etc., etc. They NEED to know what I do so well. Sunny Ethical Question > > > > Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and > wants > > > > you to bill it for treating them? > > > > Anglen > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > > members will be tolerated. > > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, > > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without > > his > or > > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Yes, it can happen. Sunny Ethical Question > > > > > > Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and > > wants > > > > > > you to bill it for treating them? > > > > > > Anglen > > > > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > > > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is > > > to > > > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on > > > listserve > > > members will be tolerated. > > > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > > > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > > However, > > > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > > > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without > his > > or > > > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Of course, we all love and probably treat our staff gratis. But when a third party enters the payment picture, that's when the situation is edgy. Art Btw I should proof before sending. My original post should have been FEAR vs. REAR. Oh well! ================================================ Re: Ethical Question I'm pretty much in that same dilemma, . Until this discussion, thinking of NOT treating the staff would have been unheard of.....OF COURSE I want my staff at their prime...they are my front desk/initial image/best ( & paid) advertisers/support props etc., etc., etc. They NEED to know what I do so well. Sunny Ethical Question > > > > Is it ethical or legal if an employee is injured and has insurance and > wants > > > > you to bill it for treating them? > > > > Anglen > > > > > > OregonDCs rules: > > 1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to > > foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve > > members will be tolerated. > > 2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name. > > 3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. > However, > > it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or > > otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without > > his > or > > her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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