Re: Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much, Rodney,

Do we have any idea what was in it?

Might point out that my dog's food (Purina) might seem terribly bad to some humans also, but it IS mostly corn based. May very well be close to 70C/17P/13F. The bag says 20% P. I had a large dog live 14 yrs on Purina chow - ad lib.

Those "chows", not all by the same mfgr, have been used in a lot of rat, et al, tests. So however horribly unnatural they may seem, they get the job done.

What I am getting at is: Why don't WE eat the same chow these Rhesus monkeys ate?

And thanks for verifying the adlibbers didn't get a junk food diet.

BTW, is the full text available?

Regards.

[ ] Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)

Hi folks:The diet the monkeys in this study were fed was not the one suggested below. The study specifies that it was monkey chow from Purina Mills, St Louis, MO, containing 70% carbohydrate, 17% protein, 13% fat.It also notes that the ad lib monkeys were 'occasionally fed' a 'nutritionally complete liquid diet' from Ross Laboratories, Columbus, OH. So their diet seems to have been somewhat more varied than that of the CR monkeys.Rodney. > >> > The problem I have with the 30% is as Rodney stated it's 30 % more> than the average of 77.6. > > I already expect to live to ~ 95. If so, CR represents and> increase of maybe 5 -10 yrs more than that. Not close to the max maybe> of 122. > > > > Secondly, is there some reason to think the monkey's "adlib" diet is> junk food?> > Look at www.dyets.com/140001.htm> > > > I'm guessing something like that for both the CRed and the adlib.> > Anyone know what it was?> > > > Regardless what it was, are humans going to eat it?> > > > Regards.> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much, Rodney,

Do we have any idea what was in it?

Might point out that my dog's food (Purina) might seem terribly bad to some humans also, but it IS mostly corn based. May very well be close to 70C/17P/13F. The bag says 20% P. I had a large dog live 14 yrs on Purina chow - ad lib.

Those "chows", not all by the same mfgr, have been used in a lot of rat, et al, tests. So however horribly unnatural they may seem, they get the job done.

What I am getting at is: Why don't WE eat the same chow these Rhesus monkeys ate?

And thanks for verifying the adlibbers didn't get a junk food diet.

BTW, is the full text available?

Regards.

[ ] Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)

Hi folks:The diet the monkeys in this study were fed was not the one suggested below. The study specifies that it was monkey chow from Purina Mills, St Louis, MO, containing 70% carbohydrate, 17% protein, 13% fat.It also notes that the ad lib monkeys were 'occasionally fed' a 'nutritionally complete liquid diet' from Ross Laboratories, Columbus, OH. So their diet seems to have been somewhat more varied than that of the CR monkeys.Rodney. > >> > The problem I have with the 30% is as Rodney stated it's 30 % more> than the average of 77.6. > > I already expect to live to ~ 95. If so, CR represents and> increase of maybe 5 -10 yrs more than that. Not close to the max maybe> of 122. > > > > Secondly, is there some reason to think the monkey's "adlib" diet is> junk food?> > Look at www.dyets.com/140001.htm> > > > I'm guessing something like that for both the CRed and the adlib.> > Anyone know what it was?> > > > Regardless what it was, are humans going to eat it?> > > > Regards.> >

[Guest guest]

Well, I tasted the plain dry dog food once, after soaking in water, to see how much sodium it had - none tasteable in the plain type, ie, < 50 mg per oz. It was very bland but imagine it with "flavorings" shown in a bowl of milk and fruit?

A lot like Kellogg's corn flakes.

It's always seemed strange to me we give these animals a diet which extends their lives and we draw conclusions about health and disease and never conclude the diet might be good for humans.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)

Hi JW:All I saw in the study was the ID information of the chow used. I guess they figure those who are that much interested can check it out for themselves with Purina? Purina do seem to be 'into' the subject of animal nutrition in considerable depth.It is a good question why humans don't eat it. But it is probably too bland (healthy) for most people to be interested. Bland enough not to ask for a second helping .......... and a third, and .......... .I have never seen a listing of the adequate chemically-defined diet for humans. Or adequate 'chow' type diet either. But how much different is it likely to be from rhesus monkeys? Dunno.Rodney.> > >> > > The problem I have with the 30% is as Rodney stated it's 30 % more> > than the average of 77.6. > > > I already expect to live to ~ 95. If so, CR represents and> > increase of maybe 5 -10 yrs more than that. Not close to the max > maybe> > of 122. > > > > > > Secondly, is there some reason to think the monkey's "adlib" diet > is> > junk food?> > > Look at www.dyets.com/140001.htm> > > > > > I'm guessing something like that for both the CRed and the adlib.> > > Anyone know what it was?> > > > > > Regardless what it was, are humans going to eat it?> > > > > > Regards.> > >

[Guest guest]

Well, I tasted the plain dry dog food once, after soaking in water, to see how much sodium it had - none tasteable in the plain type, ie, < 50 mg per oz. It was very bland but imagine it with "flavorings" shown in a bowl of milk and fruit?

A lot like Kellogg's corn flakes.

It's always seemed strange to me we give these animals a diet which extends their lives and we draw conclusions about health and disease and never conclude the diet might be good for humans.

Regards.

[ ] Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)

Hi JW:All I saw in the study was the ID information of the chow used. I guess they figure those who are that much interested can check it out for themselves with Purina? Purina do seem to be 'into' the subject of animal nutrition in considerable depth.It is a good question why humans don't eat it. But it is probably too bland (healthy) for most people to be interested. Bland enough not to ask for a second helping .......... and a third, and .......... .I have never seen a listing of the adequate chemically-defined diet for humans. Or adequate 'chow' type diet either. But how much different is it likely to be from rhesus monkeys? Dunno.Rodney.> > >> > > The problem I have with the 30% is as Rodney stated it's 30 % more> > than the average of 77.6. > > > I already expect to live to ~ 95. If so, CR represents and> > increase of maybe 5 -10 yrs more than that. Not close to the max > maybe> > of 122. > > > > > > Secondly, is there some reason to think the monkey's "adlib" diet > is> > junk food?> > > Look at www.dyets.com/140001.htm> > > > > > I'm guessing something like that for both the CRed and the adlib.> > > Anyone know what it was?> > > > > > Regardless what it was, are humans going to eat it?> > > > > > Regards.> > >

[Guest guest]

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=11309484

here they refer to Purina 5038.

This formulation of monkey chow provides 70% of calories as carbohydrate, 13% as fat, and 17% as protein.

http://www.labdiet.com/indexlabdiethome.htm

click products>primate diet>monkey diet

here is the product known as 5038 monkey diet

Monkey Diet and its companion product, Monkey Diet Jumbo, are Constant Nutrition™, complete life-cycle diets for all Old World Primates. The product is available as an extruded biscuit containing stabilized vitamin C and vitamin D3. Both diets are identical in formulation. Monkey Diet Jumbo features a larger size biscuit.

Features and Benefits

Highly Palatable, readily consumed

Protein formulated for all Old World species

Stabilized vitamin C added to prevent scurvy

Supplies vitamin D needs of all Old World primates

Product Forms Available

Standard Biscuit, 16 mm x 22 mm x 44 mm length (5/8"x7/8"x1 3/4")

Jumbo Biscuit, 45 mm x 25 mm x 25 mm length (1 3/4"x1"x1")

Short Biscuit, 16 mm x 22 mm x 19 mm length (5/8"x7/8"x3/4")

Meal (ground pellets), special order

G U A R A N T E E D A N A L Y S I S

Crude protein not less than

15.0%

Crude fat not less than

5.0%

Crude fiber not more than

6.0%

Ash not more than

5.0%

I N G R E D I E N T SGround corn, wheat middlings, ground wheat, dehulled soybean meal, animal fat preserved with BHA, ground soybean hulls, dried whey, corn gluten meal, dried beet pulp, dehydrated alfalfa meal, calcium carbonate, fish meal, sucrose, brewers dried yeast, salt, dicalcium phosphate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, DL-methionine, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite, L-lysine, cholecalciferol, vitamin A acetate, choline chloride, folic acid, calcium pantothenate, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate, nicotinic acid, riboflavin, thiamin mononitrate, cyanocobalamin, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

C H E M I C A L C O M P O S I T I O N 1

Nutrients 2

Protein, %

15.5

Arginine, %

0.83

Cystine, %

0.25

Glycine, %

0.75

Histidine, %

0.40

Isoleucine, %

0.81

Leucine, %

1.50

Lysine, %

0.75

Methionine, %

0.43

Phenylalanine, %

0.81

Tyrosine, %

0.46

Threonine, %

0.61

Tryptophan, %

0.18

Valine, %

0.84

Serine, %

0.78

Aspartic Acid, %

1.41

Glutamic Acid, %

3.76

Alanine, %

0.92

Prolline, %

1.41

Taurine, %

<0.01

Fat (ether extract), %

5.0

Fat (acid hydrolysis), %

5.9

Cholesterol, ppm

83

Linoleic Acid, %

1.47

Linolenic Acid, %

0.06

Arachidonic Acid, %

<0.01

Omega-3 Fatty Acids, %

0.11

Total Saturated Fatty Acids, %

1.69

Total Monounsaturated Fatty Acids, %

1.65

Fiber (Crude), %

4.6

Neutral Detergent Fiber3, %

16.7

Acid Detergent Fiber4, %

5.7

Nitrogen-Free Extract (by difference), %

59.5

Starch, %

41.2

Glucose, %

0.28

Fructose, %

0.31

Sucrose, %

2.16

Lactose, %

1.39

Total Digestible Nutrients, %

78.2

Gross Energy, kcal/gm

4.03

Physiological Fuel Value5, kcal/gm

3.45

Metabolizable Energy, kcal/gm

3.22

Minerals

Ash, %

5.1

Calcium, %

0.90

Phosphorus, %

0.50

Phosphorus (non-phytate), %

0.25

Potassium, %

0.70

Magnesium, %

0.18

Sulfur, %

0.21

Sodium, %

0.25

Chlorine, %

0.40

Fluorine, ppm

7.3

Iron, ppm

180

Zinc, ppm

113

Manganese, ppm

98

Copper, ppm

13

Cobalt, ppm

0.52

Iodine, ppm

1.3

Chromium, ppm

0.51

Selenium, ppm

0.20

Vitamins

Carotene, ppm

1.7

Vitamin K (as menadione), ppm

3.2

Thiamin Hydrochloride, ppm

8.9

Riboflavin, ppm

8.4

Niacin, ppm

120

Pantothenic Acid, ppm

60

Choline Chloride, ppm

1200

Folic Acid, ppm

7.9

Pyridoxine, ppm

14

Biotin, ppm

0.1

B12, mcg/kg

22

Vitamin A, IU/gm

40

Vitamin D3 (added), IU/gm

6.6

Vitamin E, IU/kg

66

Ascorbic Acid, mg/gm

0.50

Calories provided by:

Protein, %

17.971

Fat (ether extract), %

13.043

Carbohydrates, %

68.986

Regards.

[ ] Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)> > > Hi folks:> > The diet the monkeys in this study were fed was not the one suggested > below. The study specifies that it was monkey chow from Purina > Mills, St Louis, MO, containing 70% carbohydrate, 17% protein, 13% > fat.> > It also notes that the ad lib monkeys were 'occasionally fed' > a 'nutritionally complete liquid diet' from Ross Laboratories, > Columbus, OH. So their diet seems to have been somewhat more varied > than that of the CR monkeys.> > Rodney. >

[Guest guest]

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=11309484

here they refer to Purina 5038.

This formulation of monkey chow provides 70% of calories as carbohydrate, 13% as fat, and 17% as protein.

http://www.labdiet.com/indexlabdiethome.htm

click products>primate diet>monkey diet

here is the product known as 5038 monkey diet

Monkey Diet and its companion product, Monkey Diet Jumbo, are Constant Nutrition™, complete life-cycle diets for all Old World Primates. The product is available as an extruded biscuit containing stabilized vitamin C and vitamin D3. Both diets are identical in formulation. Monkey Diet Jumbo features a larger size biscuit.

Features and Benefits

Highly Palatable, readily consumed

Protein formulated for all Old World species

Stabilized vitamin C added to prevent scurvy

Supplies vitamin D needs of all Old World primates

Product Forms Available

Standard Biscuit, 16 mm x 22 mm x 44 mm length (5/8"x7/8"x1 3/4")

Jumbo Biscuit, 45 mm x 25 mm x 25 mm length (1 3/4"x1"x1")

Short Biscuit, 16 mm x 22 mm x 19 mm length (5/8"x7/8"x3/4")

Meal (ground pellets), special order

G U A R A N T E E D A N A L Y S I S

Crude protein not less than

15.0%

Crude fat not less than

5.0%

Crude fiber not more than

6.0%

Ash not more than

5.0%

I N G R E D I E N T SGround corn, wheat middlings, ground wheat, dehulled soybean meal, animal fat preserved with BHA, ground soybean hulls, dried whey, corn gluten meal, dried beet pulp, dehydrated alfalfa meal, calcium carbonate, fish meal, sucrose, brewers dried yeast, salt, dicalcium phosphate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, DL-methionine, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite, L-lysine, cholecalciferol, vitamin A acetate, choline chloride, folic acid, calcium pantothenate, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate, nicotinic acid, riboflavin, thiamin mononitrate, cyanocobalamin, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

C H E M I C A L C O M P O S I T I O N 1

Nutrients 2

Protein, %

15.5

Arginine, %

0.83

Cystine, %

0.25

Glycine, %

0.75

Histidine, %

0.40

Isoleucine, %

0.81

Leucine, %

1.50

Lysine, %

0.75

Methionine, %

0.43

Phenylalanine, %

0.81

Tyrosine, %

0.46

Threonine, %

0.61

Tryptophan, %

0.18

Valine, %

0.84

Serine, %

0.78

Aspartic Acid, %

1.41

Glutamic Acid, %

3.76

Alanine, %

0.92

Prolline, %

1.41

Taurine, %

<0.01

Fat (ether extract), %

5.0

Fat (acid hydrolysis), %

5.9

Cholesterol, ppm

83

Linoleic Acid, %

1.47

Linolenic Acid, %

0.06

Arachidonic Acid, %

<0.01

Omega-3 Fatty Acids, %

0.11

Total Saturated Fatty Acids, %

1.69

Total Monounsaturated Fatty Acids, %

1.65

Fiber (Crude), %

4.6

Neutral Detergent Fiber3, %

16.7

Acid Detergent Fiber4, %

5.7

Nitrogen-Free Extract (by difference), %

59.5

Starch, %

41.2

Glucose, %

0.28

Fructose, %

0.31

Sucrose, %

2.16

Lactose, %

1.39

Total Digestible Nutrients, %

78.2

Gross Energy, kcal/gm

4.03

Physiological Fuel Value5, kcal/gm

3.45

Metabolizable Energy, kcal/gm

3.22

Minerals

Ash, %

5.1

Calcium, %

0.90

Phosphorus, %

0.50

Phosphorus (non-phytate), %

0.25

Potassium, %

0.70

Magnesium, %

0.18

Sulfur, %

0.21

Sodium, %

0.25

Chlorine, %

0.40

Fluorine, ppm

7.3

Iron, ppm

180

Zinc, ppm

113

Manganese, ppm

98

Copper, ppm

13

Cobalt, ppm

0.52

Iodine, ppm

1.3

Chromium, ppm

0.51

Selenium, ppm

0.20

Vitamins

Carotene, ppm

1.7

Vitamin K (as menadione), ppm

3.2

Thiamin Hydrochloride, ppm

8.9

Riboflavin, ppm

8.4

Niacin, ppm

120

Pantothenic Acid, ppm

60

Choline Chloride, ppm

1200

Folic Acid, ppm

7.9

Pyridoxine, ppm

14

Biotin, ppm

0.1

B12, mcg/kg

22

Vitamin A, IU/gm

40

Vitamin D3 (added), IU/gm

6.6

Vitamin E, IU/kg

66

Ascorbic Acid, mg/gm

0.50

Calories provided by:

Protein, %

17.971

Fat (ether extract), %

13.043

Carbohydrates, %

68.986

Regards.

[ ] Re: Caloric Restriction extends life (monkey diet)> > > Hi folks:> > The diet the monkeys in this study were fed was not the one suggested > below. The study specifies that it was monkey chow from Purina > Mills, St Louis, MO, containing 70% carbohydrate, 17% protein, 13% > fat.> > It also notes that the ad lib monkeys were 'occasionally fed' > a 'nutritionally complete liquid diet' from Ross Laboratories, > Columbus, OH. So their diet seems to have been somewhat more varied > than that of the CR monkeys.> > Rodney. >