RE: Atkins: Is a BMI of 26-27 overweight? BMI and mortality

[Guest guest]

I understand the limits of BMI, but that's not the issue in this

discussion.

The issue is, Atkins Nutritionals said he wasn't overweight and his

weight was within the defined limits of normal.

The limits they listed havent been used in years and are outdated. And,

based on the new BMI numbers, he was not with the limits of normal. He

was overweight

The issue isnt how much body fat, or his overall health, or what degree

of overweight or obesity he was, the issue is they clearly " lied " and

gave out info to muddy the water, as they did with other issues.

Jeff

[Guest guest]

I understand the limits of BMI, but that's not the issue in this

discussion.

The issue is, Atkins Nutritionals said he wasn't overweight and his

weight was within the defined limits of normal.

The limits they listed havent been used in years and are outdated. And,

based on the new BMI numbers, he was not with the limits of normal. He

was overweight

The issue isnt how much body fat, or his overall health, or what degree

of overweight or obesity he was, the issue is they clearly " lied " and

gave out info to muddy the water, as they did with other issues.

Jeff

[Guest guest]

>>>I didn't know about the coronary artery disease progression in

Atkins.

It would be nice for you to provide the links to such info.

The link at his website has been removed as of this year when they redid

the website.

However, this is an online link to a story that includes the quote and

the original reference

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/lcd.html

On February 16, 2004, on " Larry King Live, " Atkins's widow

repeated that Atkins had not been overweight and did not have coronary

artery disease [20]. However, in April, in a column on the Atkins

Nutritionals Web site, she stated:

It is clear that developed a condition called cardiomyopathy

approximately three years prior to his death. It is also true that when

he developed cardiomyopathy his coronary arteries showed only minimal

and clinically insignificant signs of coronary artery disease,

consistent with what would be expected in a 69-year old man.

Cardiomyopathy is a serious and progressive condition and was, I have

been told, in 's case, caused by a viral infection. Though this

condition significantly weakened his heart, its cause was clearly

related to an infection and not his diet.

All of this was well documented and openly discussed by himself

on national television. Additionally, as Dr. Atkins explained on " Larry

King Live " and other public appearances, he did have a witnessed cardiac

arrest in April of 2002. All accounts and records related to this event

.. . . are consistent with conditions arising from his cardiomyopathy, a

lack of blood flow. did have some progression of his coronary

artery disease in the last three years of his life including some new

blockage of a secondary artery that was remedied during this admission.

He did not have a heart attack [21].

Some day, perhaps, the Atkins organization will explain how could have

progression of coronary disease that he didn't have in a cardiovascular

system that was " extraordinarily healthy.

[20]Interview with Atkins. Larry King Live, CNN, Feb 16, 2004.

[21]Atkins V. Statement by Atkins on the illegal distribution

of personal medical information regarding her late husband, Dr.

C. Atkins. Atkins Nutritionals Web site, April 2004.

[Guest guest]

>>>I didn't know about the coronary artery disease progression in

Atkins.

It would be nice for you to provide the links to such info.

The link at his website has been removed as of this year when they redid

the website.

However, this is an online link to a story that includes the quote and

the original reference

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/lcd.html

On February 16, 2004, on " Larry King Live, " Atkins's widow

repeated that Atkins had not been overweight and did not have coronary

artery disease [20]. However, in April, in a column on the Atkins

Nutritionals Web site, she stated:

It is clear that developed a condition called cardiomyopathy

approximately three years prior to his death. It is also true that when

he developed cardiomyopathy his coronary arteries showed only minimal

and clinically insignificant signs of coronary artery disease,

consistent with what would be expected in a 69-year old man.

Cardiomyopathy is a serious and progressive condition and was, I have

been told, in 's case, caused by a viral infection. Though this

condition significantly weakened his heart, its cause was clearly

related to an infection and not his diet.

All of this was well documented and openly discussed by himself

on national television. Additionally, as Dr. Atkins explained on " Larry

King Live " and other public appearances, he did have a witnessed cardiac

arrest in April of 2002. All accounts and records related to this event

.. . . are consistent with conditions arising from his cardiomyopathy, a

lack of blood flow. did have some progression of his coronary

artery disease in the last three years of his life including some new

blockage of a secondary artery that was remedied during this admission.

He did not have a heart attack [21].

Some day, perhaps, the Atkins organization will explain how could have

progression of coronary disease that he didn't have in a cardiovascular

system that was " extraordinarily healthy.

[20]Interview with Atkins. Larry King Live, CNN, Feb 16, 2004.

[21]Atkins V. Statement by Atkins on the illegal distribution

of personal medical information regarding her late husband, Dr.

C. Atkins. Atkins Nutritionals Web site, April 2004.

[Guest guest]

An " official link " that includes the wifes statement of 2/04 about the

progression of his CAD

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-10-atkins-statements_x.htm

[Guest guest]

An " official link " that includes the wifes statement of 2/04 about the

progression of his CAD

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-10-atkins-statements_x.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

From Jeff's USA Today link quoted, apparently, from the Atkins

Nutritionals people:

" During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed,

fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left

him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain

of over 60 pounds. "

Does this not suggest that when Dr. Atkins nutritional intake was

returned far closer to 'normal' - that is, including normal levels of

carbohydrates and electrolytes in his IV feed line - that the water

that his Atkins diet had caused him to excrete, was now retained? In

other words, the 60 pound increase in his weight was a reflection of

his body's water content returning to normal, from its highly

abnormal Atkins' Diet level.

And if his weight when 'normally hydrated' was 258 pounds then:

(258 x 703)/(72 x 72) = 34.99.

A BMI of 34.99 is, of course, substantially obese.

Much of this could be cleared up if the family would, instead of

hiding his medical records, make them available to provide the

evidence.

This is not a case where confidentiality of medical records has much

relevance. There are hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps

millions, who on Atkins' advice are gambling with their health in a

way that may be very dangerous. IMO they are morally obliged to make

his records available. It is not as if they themselves are keeping

them secret, lol. Instead, they are disclosing little tidbits from

here or there that they hope will distract people's attention from

the real issues. Which are: what did this man really die from?

What was the condition of his arteries at the time of his death? And

are the people who are following his advice headed in the same

direction he was?

JMO

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

>

> An " official link " that includes the wifes statement of 2/04 about

the

> progression of his CAD

>

>

> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-10-atkins-

statements_x.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Hi folks:

From Jeff's USA Today link quoted, apparently, from the Atkins

Nutritionals people:

" During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed,

fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left

him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain

of over 60 pounds. "

Does this not suggest that when Dr. Atkins nutritional intake was

returned far closer to 'normal' - that is, including normal levels of

carbohydrates and electrolytes in his IV feed line - that the water

that his Atkins diet had caused him to excrete, was now retained? In

other words, the 60 pound increase in his weight was a reflection of

his body's water content returning to normal, from its highly

abnormal Atkins' Diet level.

And if his weight when 'normally hydrated' was 258 pounds then:

(258 x 703)/(72 x 72) = 34.99.

A BMI of 34.99 is, of course, substantially obese.

Much of this could be cleared up if the family would, instead of

hiding his medical records, make them available to provide the

evidence.

This is not a case where confidentiality of medical records has much

relevance. There are hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps

millions, who on Atkins' advice are gambling with their health in a

way that may be very dangerous. IMO they are morally obliged to make

his records available. It is not as if they themselves are keeping

them secret, lol. Instead, they are disclosing little tidbits from

here or there that they hope will distract people's attention from

the real issues. Which are: what did this man really die from?

What was the condition of his arteries at the time of his death? And

are the people who are following his advice headed in the same

direction he was?

JMO

Rodney.

--- In , " Jeff Novick " <jnovick@p...>

wrote:

>

> An " official link " that includes the wifes statement of 2/04 about

the

> progression of his CAD

>

>

> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-10-atkins-

statements_x.htm

>