Guest guest Posted September 17, 2000 Report Share Posted September 17, 2000 I had that problem with , on what school to put him in. Before the diagnosis, he was in a self contained class, 5 kids and 3 adults. He was the least affected, highest functioning child in the class and I felt they weren't teaching him appropriately. I pulled him and began homeschooling him. I'm on my 3rd year of homeschooling, and he's been diagnosed for about a year and a half. The biggest thing I can tell you is what I learned when we lived in Missouri, there is never just one placement option. We had discovered the teacher singling out for ridicule (self-contained class with 8 kids and 2 adults) in front of the whole class. He had received an IQ score of 69-70. I called the state school for severely retarded, and they said they only dealt with IQ's of 40 or less, but she told me that if the placement he is in is not working, they HAVE to find an appropriate placement for him. Long story short, they did in a multi-handicapped class. It was all ages (1st through 6th) and he was about middle on functioning level. It's a fine line between over-challenged and under-challenged, though. acts the same if he's over-challenged as he does when he's bored stiff. I say look for something where he can have 1 to 1 instruction. Loriann from Hawaii Wife to Dewight Mom to , 10 years old, DS-ASD, ADHD, ODD And , 15 months old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2000 Report Share Posted September 17, 2000 In a message dated 9/17/00 5:21:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayte.brimacombe@... writes: << Well, guess I'm on the right list. 's been diagnosed with autism. Although, we've suspected it for a year now, I was actually really shocked, I so hoped we were wrong. We were asked 100's of questions and Prof Howlin observed him for the afternoon. He did his usual stuff, the only time he took any notice of her was when he picked her fingernails (he couldn't get to her feet) Anyway, she seemed pretty sure. She recommended an educational setting which would address the autism primarily - So I guess I 'll start looking around again I'm wondering what kind of schools your kids are in, are they with 'straight' autistic kids, kids with moderate learning difficulties or are any in mainstream really included and progressing. The only autistic unit I've seen was no fun at all, I just couldn't imagine him in it. Thanks for your support folks, I feel like I'm grieving here Kayte >> Kayte, Gosh, sorry you are feeling a loss. Funny how we all see things so different. I was so relieved when they said Seth was Autistic. It answered so many questions. I didn't even take him in for that. He was being evaluated because of his PICA. Since then, he has done so much better with all his therapies geared towards the Autism. He is in a wonderful class of 6 Autistic kids with a super teacher and aide. I was relieved to get the diagnosis. :-) Gail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2000 Report Share Posted September 17, 2000 Kayte,at least you can get the right sort of help now, attends an ESN S schooland is in a class with alltypes of disability but he is pulled out for sessions in the " autistic resource room " on a daily basis,the autistic units around here are mostly more able kids and attached to mainstream schools,there is a school in Newbury ran on the therapy methods of a Japanese therapy,Higashi?,I have never looked into it because Wilts is a very mean county and I think the chance of getting funding is nil Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2000 Report Share Posted September 17, 2000 Kayte, I know how hard it is to go to these kind of appointments. I had a really really bad experience with a developmental pediatrician when Brook was only 1 yr old and I think that is still holding me back from getting him formally diagnosed. I really don't want to go through something like that again and I can really feel for you. Try to remember that is still the same person and see what good can come of the diagnosis. Marisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2000 Report Share Posted September 17, 2000 hey Kayte, sorry to hear about your sons dx. I know what you mean about the grieving, my son was just dxed this summer and i know what you are feeling right now. if you ever want to email me please feel free to do so, since we are both kinda " newbies " to this. I am getting to some sort of acceptence stage now i think but i have a lot of pain about it still and some anger there. my son is 8 almost 9 so i was in quite a shock and still am some. just wanted to commiserate and let you know i am willing to talk. please take care. my son is in a multiply handicapped class in his school which is for all MH kids. jared has done really well there. we havent yet discussed the autism the cst meeting is coming soon but his teacher is skeptical because he does extremely well in school and lets the autism stuff go at home...his teacher is great but i dont know whats going to happen with this. take care ok?:) (hug if ok) MARIE > Well, guess I'm on the right list. 's been diagnosed with autism. > Although, we've suspected it for a year now, I was actually really shocked, > I so hoped we were wrong. We were asked 100's of questions and Prof Howlin > observed him for the afternoon. He did his usual stuff, the only time he > took any notice of her was when he picked her fingernails (he couldn't get > to her feet) Anyway, she seemed pretty sure. She recommended an > educational setting which would address the autism primarily - So I guess I > 'll start looking around again > I'm wondering what kind of schools your kids are in, are they with > 'straight' autistic kids, kids with moderate learning difficulties or are > any in mainstream really included and progressing. The only autistic unit > I've seen was no fun at all, I just couldn't imagine him in it. > Thanks for your support folks, I feel like I'm grieving here > Kayte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2000 Report Share Posted September 18, 2000 In a message dated 9/17/00 5:21:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayte.brimacombe@... writes: << I'm wondering what kind of schools your kids are in, are they with 'straight' autistic kids, kids with moderate learning difficulties or are any in mainstream really included and progressing. The only autistic unit I've seen was no fun at all, I just couldn't imagine him in it. >> Kayte, I think you'll find we all run the gamut here on this list. Maddie (soon to be 7, DS and autism) goes to an approved private school paid for by our school district. She is one of six kids in the class, and all have one on one's. Three are autistic (including Maddie) and the other three have other disabilities. I've checked out the autistic support classrooms, both in our school district and in the approved private schools, and I didn't like them either. No one was communicating with each other and no one seemed happy. I will say however, that I know people who feel their children are getting a great deal out of them, so you should check everything out first-hand. Believe me, you'll know when it feels right. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}. I remember all too well when Maddie was dx'd. Of course, I knew she had autism; *I* was the one telling *them* for so long. However, when she was dx'd, it still felt like being stabbed in the heart!! It does get better with time. Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 At 10:46 PM 9/21/00 -0000, you wrote: You have no idea how nice it has been to be able to go to a group of people and tell them >what's going on without them just saying " he's a brat " . > >Sincerely~ > sigh... yes we do have an idea! you've maybe not met my mother-in-law :-) -- Vicki in MT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 > Well, we have finally been to the doctor and now have a diagnosis for > my son. I was right and the doctor almost immediately diagnosed him > with OCD/Anxiety disorder. Today we just went over his > symptoms/behaviors and talked over some of the possible treatments. > For now he thinks that my son is too young for CBT. So we are going Congrats on getting a diagnosis! I would have to disagree about your son being too young for CBT. My daughter is 4 and does tremendously well with CBT. It has been a life saver... A five year old, depending on his development otherwise, is probably ready for CBT. You might want to think about this, because the younger you start the CBT, the more it can reshape patterns of thinking and behaving before they get too engrained, and CBT can become a way of life! I even use it for my anxiety too! This is a great group, you can learn so much from them about CBT and medicines too! It is such a relief to have someone be able to tell you what this monster is that has been affecting your life... even though it's not like you are glad your kid has OCD, it's a relief to know what it is and what your approach will be. Take care, Stephany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: " Busch " <stacybusch@...> > For now he thinks that my son is too young for CBT. So we are going > to work on both mine and my husbands responses to his behavior. Hi , congrats (if that's the word) on getting a diagnosis. Now you can get moving on treatment. Kel is 6 and her doctor also says she's too young for CBT (still, after a year of spectacular improvement using our home-grown E & RP program. Her symptoms are lower than at any time since onset, and she's taking half the Zoloft she was a year ago.) I wasted a lot of time getting started on E & RP because I felt if I wanted this doctor--and I did--I had to follow *all* his advice. Later I realized starting E & RP at home, since I could find no therapist in our area who would agree to work with Kellen due to her age, was our business and could hurt no one. I bought the March and Mulle manual and hung on this list's every word re: E & RP. Meds were helpful, so was learning a better way of responding to the OCD, but E & RP has given my daughter the tools to be in control of her OCD. Nothing else has done so much to pull my daughter out from under the mudslide of OCD. I very much encourage you to look into it for your son. There is very little to be lost and potentially a lot to be gained by not delaying this first-line treatment for OCD. Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: " Busch " <stacybusch@...> > For now he thinks that my son is too young for CBT. So we are going > to work on both mine and my husbands responses to his behavior. Hi , congrats (if that's the word) on getting a diagnosis. Now you can get moving on treatment. Kel is 6 and her doctor also says she's too young for CBT (still, after a year of spectacular improvement using our home-grown E & RP program. Her symptoms are lower than at any time since onset, and she's taking half the Zoloft she was a year ago.) I wasted a lot of time getting started on E & RP because I felt if I wanted this doctor--and I did--I had to follow *all* his advice. Later I realized starting E & RP at home, since I could find no therapist in our area who would agree to work with Kellen due to her age, was our business and could hurt no one. I bought the March and Mulle manual and hung on this list's every word re: E & RP. Meds were helpful, so was learning a better way of responding to the OCD, but E & RP has given my daughter the tools to be in control of her OCD. Nothing else has done so much to pull my daughter out from under the mudslide of OCD. I very much encourage you to look into it for your son. There is very little to be lost and potentially a lot to be gained by not delaying this first-line treatment for OCD. Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 Hi Stacey! I know it sounds weird to say I am happy for you but in a sense thats the truth. I know in my situation with my , I feel I spent a good 2yrs or so not know ing what to do with this child. Read everything I could get my hands on and tried every parenting technique known to man and still everything was haywire. And through it all I was the only one who really thought there was a problem. My family thought I was just trying to give her a label, yeah we all want that huh? When the hand washing go to be 100+ times a day and she wouldnt touch anybody or anything and spent 90% of her day trying to figure out how to avoid germs and sneaking to wash wear socks on her hands etc. Then my family said well maybe there is something wrong and I knew what it was then. It was almost a relief because now I had a path to follow, a rocky path but atleast a path. By prayer, faith researching, education and support from now part of the family (another part still thinks Im wrong, and wont except it) we are so much farther along and happier. I am very happy for you that you now have a path to follow and not floundering in the middle of the ocean like I was. I wish all of Gods blessings on you and your family and please update us on how this goes. I know with us it can change from one day to the next and my biggest problem is trying to not get so discouraged when we have a bad day as tomm will be brighter and everytime we have a bad day we usually all learn something from it and can better handle the bad day next time. Take care. Nikki in O'town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2000 Report Share Posted September 22, 2000 Hi Stacey! I know it sounds weird to say I am happy for you but in a sense thats the truth. I know in my situation with my , I feel I spent a good 2yrs or so not know ing what to do with this child. Read everything I could get my hands on and tried every parenting technique known to man and still everything was haywire. And through it all I was the only one who really thought there was a problem. My family thought I was just trying to give her a label, yeah we all want that huh? When the hand washing go to be 100+ times a day and she wouldnt touch anybody or anything and spent 90% of her day trying to figure out how to avoid germs and sneaking to wash wear socks on her hands etc. Then my family said well maybe there is something wrong and I knew what it was then. It was almost a relief because now I had a path to follow, a rocky path but atleast a path. By prayer, faith researching, education and support from now part of the family (another part still thinks Im wrong, and wont except it) we are so much farther along and happier. I am very happy for you that you now have a path to follow and not floundering in the middle of the ocean like I was. I wish all of Gods blessings on you and your family and please update us on how this goes. I know with us it can change from one day to the next and my biggest problem is trying to not get so discouraged when we have a bad day as tomm will be brighter and everytime we have a bad day we usually all learn something from it and can better handle the bad day next time. Take care. Nikki in O'town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2000 Report Share Posted November 15, 2000 Just my $.02 on this topic.... I was also very devastated when I got 's diagnosis. There are no words to describe how it feels to have a doctor look at you and tell you that your baby has a very rare, very fatal, and very untreatable disease. A disease that is progressive, degenerative, and offers absolutely no mercy to it's sufferers. BUT.... I was also relieved. I was relieved to know what we were fighting. I was relieved to know that I didn't somehow cause Matty to be sick. I was relieved to know that now we could name that disease, we could research that disease, and we could do our damnedest to fight that disease. I think that fighting for a diagnosis is a fundamental drive in people, and I know that I never once even thought about stopping until we had that diagnosis. Most people, myself included, find it much easier to face a demon with a name than a demon that has no identity. Even though it did nothing to change the final outcome,and eventually did die from his disease, I am so glad that we found out. and I shared 17 wonderful, beautiful months together. Had not been diagnosed, his life would have ended at 3, 4 maybe 5 months. We had so much to gain and absolutely nothing to lose by getting that diagnosis. Yes, it was a label. Yes, it was painful. Yes, it sucked majorly to have to hear and accept what that doctor was saying to me. But was the diagnosis a death sentence?? NO. The disease was Matty's death sentence, and he had that regardless if he was diagnosed or not. *hugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2001 Report Share Posted March 30, 2001 , I know we correspond off list, but I thought I should remind you that our symptoms seem to be absolutely the same!! Are we twins?? I have Fibromyalgia, PCOS, hearing loss, thought to have meneires, but actually have mondini's, and endometriosis. We are in the same boat!! Diagnosis Well, it seems to be coming thick and fast lately. First I was told that I have Fybromyalgia. Then I was told that I had severe hypermobility. First I find out I have polycystic ovaries (yeah I knew this before, but finally got confirmation) Then I just found out I have significant hearing loss in one ear, this coupled with the dizziness is most probably Menieres (have a appoint in April for the specialist to go through all the test results as he had to scan to eliminate the possibility of a tumour etc, if that is clear, he will rule in Menieres, for certain) On Tuesday I have a sleep study as it is pretty certain that I have sleep apnea. I am also flaring up again with my regular symptoms (could be sjogrens) eyes extrememly dry, I am soo tired, aching etc Lastly, I read an article on endometriosis, and I am suspicious. Seems to explain some very longstanding problems in that dept. Whew, and here I thought that I had one thing, and it would explain all my symptoms. Seems as though that is not the case. ANyone here got much experience with polycystic ovaries or Menieres? bye for now ~~~~ *** ~~~ *** ~~~ *** ~~~~ The Being Sick Community Visual problems with colors? Click the link below and select the modify link to your right. Then select the **Send Plain Text Email** option. This will stop you receiving emails with colored or enlarged fonts. /join Members Lounge:- Photo Album, memorial page, members profiles, birthdays, locations, medical resources, counselling via email and a whole bunch of free things. http://www.elderwyn.com/members Message Archives and Digest Attachment Pictures:- /messages Chat:- Scheduled Daily Chats at # on IRC DALnet. /files/chat.htm Bookmarks:- Add a website URL you have found useful. /links Personal Complaints or problems:- Please contact a moderator either via email <-owner > Subscription Details:- 1) Individual email - means that every email sent to the list you receive. 2) Daily Digest - sends you 25 messages in one single email for you to browse. This is an excellent option if you receive alot of email. 3) Web only/No mail - means that you can pop into eGroups at your convenience and receive no email. To modify your subscription settings please visit:- /join To subscribe or unsubscribe please email:- -subscribe -unsubscribe ~~~~ *** ~~~ *** ~~~ *** ~~~~ “Hold on to what is good, even if it's a handful of earth. Hold on to what you believe, even if it's a tree that stands by itself. Hold on to what you must do even, if it's a long way from here. Hold on to your life, even if it's easier to let go. " - Pueblo Prayer ~~~~ *** ~~~ *** ~~~ *** ~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2001 Report Share Posted March 30, 2001 Do you have one main doc, doing the diagnosing? How much confidence do you have in your docs? It sounds like a good rheumatologist would help???? Lee rachelvk67@... wrote: Well, it seems to be coming thick and fast lately.First I was told that I have Fybromyalgia.Then I was told that I had severe hypermobility.First I find out I have polycystic ovaries (yeah I knew this before, but finally got confirmation) Then I just found out I have significant hearing loss in one ear, this coupled with the dizziness is most probably Menieres (have a appoint in April for the specialist to go through all the test results as he had to scan to eliminate the possibility of a tumour etc, if that is clear, he will rule in Menieres, for certain) On Tuesday I have a sleep study as it is pretty certain that I have sleep apnea.I am also flaring up again with my regular symptoms (could be sjogrens) eyes extrememly dry, I am soo tired, aching etcLastly, I read an article on endometriosis, and I am suspicious. Seems to explain some very longstanding problems in that dept. Whew, and here I thought that I had one thing, and it would explain all my symptoms. Seems as though that is not the case.ANyone here got much experience with polycystic ovaries or Menieres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Sara, Ok, I must have missed some posts regarding this but where is it written that Psychologists in CA can't make the autism (or dual) dx? I have had Psychologists who have been skittish about the dx and one who disagreed with it, but I had no problem introducing it into 's IEP via the Psyche Report and, although 's dx was initially made by a Neurologist with a second opinion by another Neurologist, I never introduced the actual medical documentation into 's school records. They just had my say so on that. Actually, I believe it was the Administrator at one of his early IEPs that marked autism on the IEP when I asked him to. I do remember early on that the administrators were slow to include the autism dx because they said it would " label " in a more negative way. We got past that! LOL Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 , I know that I have heard reports before from parents in Autism groups about professionals not wanting to make or concur with the diagnosis. I guess we have been fortunate (so far!) because we have resided in 3 school districts and two counties in CA and including the " autism " diagnosis in 's IEP has not been a problem. That's not to say that the appropriate services have magically appeared or that the staff(s) have been appropriately trained to work with the myriad of problems associated with the dual dx, but that's another issue! LOL is 14 and the dual dx has been recorded in his IEPs since he was about 6, I think. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 , That's interesting. Has it made a difference in the kinds or amounts of services he can access? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 , That is outstanding! I am so glad for you and for him! We have tried PECS over the course of several years with with no success. I was convinced that it had more to do with Staff training in the beginning but it was the same in the next district/county, so I guess I was wrong. We are doing SI as well and I have seen progress behaviorally as a result. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Hi Deb, I know you have probably already posted the info, but could you say again how old your son is? Sometimes I get behind in the posts and just sort of " fly " through them....unfortunately I don't retain as much as I used to! LOL When you say the school is getting ready to cut back on OT/PT, does that mean you have already had another IEP and addressed their/your concerns or have they come to this conclusion on their own? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Terry, School psych's do not have the education or the autority to make any diagnosis. Where we are they will not even say " perhaps your child has another dx that will be looked into " The other thing we find is that school does not want to beleive the dx that an independent psych has done. Families also have been having problems with the " Autism Team " trying to take away the dx. The therapys have worked well and the kids are taking meds. Take the meds away and they have behaviors and autism again. The Autism Team would not even look at JJ--about 6 months ago he was their star student for PECS. When did we become part of the team? And have you noticed how once a dr sticks his dx on your child, then everyone chimes in " Well we knew that! " It would help so much if they said something before. Then you could start treatment sooner. & Garry, parents of (10 ds), (9 ds), JJ (7 ds/autism/celiac), (6 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (4 ds). All adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Terry, JJ was 5 when he was first dx'd. Last year I got them to chcnage is dx from ds/autism to autism/ds. & Garry, parents of (10 ds), (9 ds), JJ (7 ds/autism/celiac), (6 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (4 ds). All adopted. ---------- >From: Imaddenmom@... > >Subject: Re: Diagnosis >Date: Mon, Apr 2, 2001, 7:56 AM > >, >I know that I have heard reports before from parents in Autism groups about >professionals not wanting to make or concur with the diagnosis. I guess we >have been fortunate (so far!) because we have resided in 3 school districts >and two counties in CA and including the " autism " diagnosis in 's IEP >has not been a problem. That's not to say that the appropriate services have >magically appeared or that the staff(s) have been appropriately trained to >work with the myriad of problems associated with the dual dx, but that's >another issue! LOL is 14 and the dual dx has been recorded in his >IEPs since he was about 6, I think. >Terry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Terry, Yes very much. He was getting speech 2 days x 15 to 20 min each time a week. Heck it took 10 minutes to get him in the room. With the dx and recomendation from the dr. we got speech 5 days for 30 min each time. We also get Sensory Intergration 1 time a week. And at the SI perons recommendation he gets SI input each day(mostly swinging). Now that he is doing PECS they have stopped speech. But we have the option to revisit speech in the future. Pretty stupid==they worked on m,s,p for 4 years, never trying any other means of communication. The PECS is now being done with most of the kids in his class(even Tim). The school never thought he would get it--he is the star pupil. They did a traiing video on him last week to demonstrate how PECS is done and the progress that can be acceaved. & Garry, parents of (10 ds), (9 ds), JJ (7 ds/autism/celiac), (6 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (4 ds). All adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Hi , Terry & everyone, I posted earlier from NY. We have the doc who won't make the dual dx. I also wrote about our confusion of SI and autism. I'm learning. I see you are discussing the two issues. Is there a big jump from one to the other? Are they common together? We have the dx of SI from a previous doc. but the school won't acknowledge it. The school is getting ready to reduce OT & PT because of behav. problems and lack of progress. But they have not addressed the SI at all which would help both problems. All they want him to do is sit there and either cut with a scissor or write with a pencil. We appreciate any help. Deb > , > That is outstanding! I am so glad for you and for him! We have tried PECS > over the course of several years with with no success. : ( I was > convinced that it had more to do with Staff training in the beginning but it > was the same in the next district/county, so I guess I was wrong. We are > doing SI as well and I have seen progress behaviorally as a result. > Terry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2001 Report Share Posted April 2, 2001 Terry, JJ is 7. It's right in my signature-see below. I can't remember kids ages or which parents/kids go together either. Old age creaping in. & Garry, parents of (10 ds), (9 ds), JJ (7 ds/autism/celiac), (6 ds/ADHD/Celiac), and Esther (4 ds). All adopted. ---------- >From: Imaddenmom@... > >Subject: Re: Re: Diagnosis >Date: Mon, Apr 2, 2001, 9:24 AM > >Hi Deb, >I know you have probably already posted the info, but could you say again how >old your son is? Sometimes I get behind in the posts and just sort of " fly " >through them....unfortunately I don't retain as much as I used to! LOL >When you say the school is getting ready to cut back on OT/PT, does that mean >you have already had another IEP and addressed their/your concerns or have >they come to this conclusion on their own? >Terry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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