Re: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment Case (MTC)

[Guest guest]

Dan,

It is my experience that different companies have a different classification of

FAC / MTC, and even then it is a grey area.

However, (As I have just been looking into this myself - spooky) If you have to

give treatment that is minor and will allow the person to continue to work

unaffected, then this COULD be classified as a FAC. If you treat someone for

more than a day and they are unable to continue work for that period, then this

COULD be classified as a MTC.

Again, I must stress that this is a grey area: If you treat someone for a

headache and they come back to see you the next day and the next again then are

you constantly treating the same problem? If so then this COULD be classified as

MTC.

I should also stress that this is a company led classification, as far as I

understand RIDDOR and the FA Book are the only two civilian requirements, out

here we classify things further for more reasons.

Hope you get the answer somewhere along the line.

Don’t be upset or get angry if no one sends you their company’s classifications.

Grey area indeed.

Mitch

Offshore / Remote Medic

FA Instructor.

First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment Case

(MTC)

I would appreciate it if anyone can forward me an elaborate description of what

cases are considered FAC's and MTC's as is commonly accepted in the

oil/offshore/ construction industry.

Regards

Dan

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dan,

A good question. In my opinion, if they just require recording but no

treatment they are a 'First Aid Case'. However, if they require any

treatment at all then they are an 'MTC'.

This is a grey area, but should be identified in your own facilities

procedures.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Tony Patton

Morecambe Gas Field

> I would appreciate it if anyone can forward me an elaborate description of

> what cases are considered FAC's and MTC's as is commonly accepted in the

> oil/offshore/construction industry.

>

> Regards

> Dan

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car

> Finder tool.

>

>

[Guest guest]

It also depends on if you are in the USA or not. OSHA has very specific

definitions regarding what is a FAC vs. a MTC/Recordable. There are several

different treatments that can be done and the case not be elevated to a MTC.

You can search OSHA 300 for more information. I have a PPT that I will see if

I can find as well.

Josh Horne EMT-P

Shell HSE Tech

tonypatton@... wrote:

Hi Dan,

A good question. In my opinion, if they just require recording but no

treatment they are a 'First Aid Case'. However, if they require any

treatment at all then they are an 'MTC'.

This is a grey area, but should be identified in your own facilities

procedures.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Tony Patton

Morecambe Gas Field

> I would appreciate it if anyone can forward me an elaborate description of

> what cases are considered FAC's and MTC's as is commonly accepted in the

> oil/offshore/construction industry.

>

> Regards

> Dan

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Mitch,

I have to disagree with you about your definition of a MTC. This is for

classification of work related injuries rather than illness.

Basically if you can stick a plaster or a bandage without any real treatment

apart from cleaning a wound up then I would classify it as a FAC. The moment

you need to stitch a wound or stick them with a needle then that upgrades to

a MTC.

Hope this clears the issue a little

All the best

Geoff

[Guest guest]

This is from a company Accident & Incident Management procedure

Medical Treatment

An injury that required treatment by a qualified Medical Practitioner or

hospital by administering more than First Aid, the injured person was

deemed by them to be fit to return to work.

First Aid Case

A injury that has been treated by a qualified First Aider/Vessel Medic,

the injured person was deemed by them to be fit to return to work.

For a change, pretty clear definitions in a company procedure document

Hope this helps.

Regards

Colin Marshall

wrote:

>

>

> I would appreciate it if anyone can forward me an elaborate description

> of what cases are considered FAC's and MTC's as is commonly accepted in

> the oil/offshore/construction industry.

>

> Regards

> Dan

>

> ---------------------------------

> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car

> Finder tool.

>

>

[Guest guest]

depends where you are.

the 2 main systems are riddor in UK areas, and the

American OSHA.

look up OSHA-loads of info and an idiots guide.

and of course there are other classifications,like a

loss time injury,restricted work case and so on.

many variables involved-but remember,you don't

classify.

that's the safety dept usually.

they may wish you to alter your treatment.

your question is does this affect recovery?

the big companies have solid guidelines.

you may find your self with many contractor safety

depts-all wishing a different outcome!

and within one client company,various folk also

wanting different outcomes!

remember-some bonuses in safety are linked to the

accident rate,and recordability rate.

guys want the cash.

I always went with 3 main diktats

1-what is the optimum treatment?

2-if I alter this-will it affect the patient?

3-if the attempt is to hide the injury-could it happen

again? and if so could reporting this help stop that?

remember-you don't classify-so treat and leave it up

to others.

also if you are working for a big medic company-kick

it upstairs.

the client company generally wins the day,and

generally want things above board,reported and

investigated to stop happening again.-the subbys are

upset(they want no trouble-their words usually),but

they dont pay you !

if you are the medic and safety-good luck,put a broom

up your bottom, and sweep the floor as well.

I always feel these 2 hat jobs are like being poacher

and gamekeeper-way too easy to find yourself up to eye

level in the brown sticky stuff,metaphysically

speaking of course.

Fraser

--- <smiddyza@...> wrote:

> I would appreciate it if anyone can forward me an

> elaborate description of what cases are considered

> FAC's and MTC's as is commonly accepted in the

> oil/offshore/construction industry.

>

> Regards

> Dan

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out

> Autos new Car Finder tool.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

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[Guest guest]

agree with Geoff but there are treatments such a tetnus shot that are not

considered MTC since they prevent a worseing of the incident. Also again

depends on where you work and for who. Non prescription medication ie; 2

asprin call me in the morning can be considered a first aid

Cheers

Tom G

>From: Gmed1c@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

>Case (MTC)

>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:37:01 EDT

>

>Mitch,

>

>I have to disagree with you about your definition of a MTC. This is for

>classification of work related injuries rather than illness.

>

>Basically if you can stick a plaster or a bandage without any real

>treatment

>apart from cleaning a wound up then I would classify it as a FAC. The

>moment

>you need to stitch a wound or stick them with a needle then that upgrades

>to

>a MTC.

>

>Hope this clears the issue a little

>

>All the best

>

>Geoff

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dan,

first aid... examples Non prescription OTC Meds, Steristrips instead of

sutures, Eye wash for FB instead of needle, it goes on.

MTC examples prescription medication such as antibiotic, Sutures instead of

steristrips, using a needle to remove a FB. however each company should have

its own definintions, and even then you will find that everything is not

crystal clear with different interpretations coming from different safety

officers.

>From: <smiddyza@...>

>Reply-

> < >

>Subject: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

>Case (MTC)

>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:25:03 -0700 (PDT)

>

>I would appreciate it if anyone can forward me an elaborate description of

>what cases are considered FAC's and MTC's as is commonly accepted in the

>oil/offshore/construction industry.

>

> Regards

> Dan

>

>

>---------------------------------

>Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car

>Finder tool.

>

>

[Guest guest]

RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment Case

(MTC)

Dan,

first aid... examples Non prescription OTC Meds, Steristrips instead of

sutures, Eye wash for FB instead of needle, it goes on.

**********************

NEEDLE ! ! ? ? ?

AArrrrggghh ! ! !

Eye wash, Magnet, Plastic loop removal, transfer out if failure

Barring long delays to an opthalmologist (+24 hours)

IMHO the needle in the eye is a practice that should not be advocated

[Guest guest]

Pardon me. Very sorry, but I've seen this twice and can't agree. If a wound

requires Steri Strips I think OSHA rates that a MTC. A plaster or butterfly

might make it under the radar, but Steri Strips and sutures are roughly the

same in the eyes of the regulators.

Regards,

Donn

Re: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

Case (MTC)

RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

Case (MTC)

Dan,

first aid... examples Non prescription OTC Meds, Steristrips instead of

sutures, Eye wash for FB instead of needle, it goes on.

**********************

NEEDLE ! ! ? ? ?

AArrrrggghh ! ! !

Eye wash, Magnet, Plastic loop removal, transfer out if failure

Barring long delays to an opthalmologist (+24 hours)

IMHO the needle in the eye is a practice that should not be advocated

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Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

Steri strips are first aid unless you use derma bond to hold them in place and

yes I have seen that one tried and the application of derma bond made it

recordable

Dustan, L.P.

" D.E. (Donn) " <donn@...> wrote:

Pardon me. Very sorry, but I've seen this twice and can't agree. If a wound

requires Steri Strips I think OSHA rates that a MTC. A plaster or butterfly

might make it under the radar, but Steri Strips and sutures are roughly the

same in the eyes of the regulators.

Regards,

Donn

Re: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

Case (MTC)

RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

Case (MTC)

Dan,

first aid... examples Non prescription OTC Meds, Steristrips instead of

sutures, Eye wash for FB instead of needle, it goes on.

**********************

NEEDLE ! ! ? ? ?

AArrrrggghh ! ! !

Eye wash, Magnet, Plastic loop removal, transfer out if failure

Barring long delays to an opthalmologist (+24 hours)

IMHO the needle in the eye is a practice that should not be advocated

Member Information:

List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to

the list owner.

Post message: egroups

Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment Case

(MTC)

Pardon me. Very sorry, but I've seen this twice and can't agree. If a wound

requires Steri Strips I think OSHA rates that a MTC. A plaster or butterfly

might make it under the radar, but Steri Strips and sutures are roughly the

same in the eyes of the regulators.

***************************

I think we could do everydoby a favor by expanding the F-A category

The whole process is totally neurotic

It is totally result oriented (bonus... NO, not best care for employees)

Forcing us to chose between not reporting (fraud)

Or not treatingproperly (malpractice)

Overall I find medic are choosing malpractice over fraud

It is easy to surmise(hope) that the wound will heal properly and/or not

complicate

It is easy to tolerate somebody else's pain (caregiver have been doing this for

centuries)

Etc.

A on line " Medical " control could be one of the solution

Bringing a third party, a medical one at that

Would help better walk the fine line

And inpregnate certitudes in a process that is frought with opinions and

conflict of interests

This said

I fear " Medical " is just as corruptible than the Medic in the fields

[Guest guest]

Steri strips is OSHA non recordable. Dermabond and sutures are OSHA recordable

Brault <c_brault@...> wrote: RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment Case

(MTC)

Pardon me. Very sorry, but I've seen this twice and can't agree. If a wound

requires Steri Strips I think OSHA rates that a MTC. A plaster or butterfly

might make it under the radar, but Steri Strips and sutures are roughly the

same in the eyes of the regulators.

***************************

I think we could do everydoby a favor by expanding the F-A category

The whole process is totally neurotic

It is totally result oriented (bonus... NO, not best care for employees)

Forcing us to chose between not reporting (fraud)

Or not treatingproperly (malpractice)

Overall I find medic are choosing malpractice over fraud

It is easy to surmise(hope) that the wound will heal properly and/or not

complicate

It is easy to tolerate somebody else's pain (caregiver have been doing this for

centuries)

Etc.

A on line " Medical " control could be one of the solution

Bringing a third party, a medical one at that

Would help better walk the fine line

And inpregnate certitudes in a process that is frought with opinions and

conflict of interests

This said

I fear " Medical " is just as corruptible than the Medic in the fields

Member Information:

List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the

list owner.

Post message: egroups

Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

If you use Steri-strips in lue of sutures or staples then it still counts as a

recordable. Otherwise they can be counted as a first aid.

1904.7((5)(ii)(D)

Using wound coverings such as bandages, Band-Aids™, gauze pads, etc.; or

using butterfly bandages or Steri-Strips™ (other wound closing devices such as

sutures, staples, etc., are considered medical treatment);

Josh

Shigone Beighle <shigone@...> wrote:

Steri strips is OSHA non recordable. Dermabond and sutures are OSHA recordable

Brault wrote: RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment Case

(MTC)

Pardon me. Very sorry, but I've seen this twice and can't agree. If a wound

requires Steri Strips I think OSHA rates that a MTC. A plaster or butterfly

might make it under the radar, but Steri Strips and sutures are roughly the

same in the eyes of the regulators.

***************************

I think we could do everydoby a favor by expanding the F-A category

The whole process is totally neurotic

It is totally result oriented (bonus... NO, not best care for employees)

Forcing us to chose between not reporting (fraud)

Or not treatingproperly (malpractice)

Overall I find medic are choosing malpractice over fraud

It is easy to surmise(hope) that the wound will heal properly and/or not

complicate

It is easy to tolerate somebody else's pain (caregiver have been doing this for

centuries)

Etc.

A on line " Medical " control could be one of the solution

Bringing a third party, a medical one at that

Would help better walk the fine line

And inpregnate certitudes in a process that is frought with opinions and

conflict of interests

This said

I fear " Medical " is just as corruptible than the Medic in the fields

Member Information:

List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the

list owner.

Post message: egroups

Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team

[Guest guest]

Be cautious with how you read this:

First aid is considered to be:

Using wound coverings such as bandages, Band-Aids™, gauze pads, etc.; or

using butterfly bandages or Steri-Strips™

Recordable Medical treatment is:

(other wound closing devices such as sutures, staples, etc., are considered

medical treatment);

this includes derma bond also

Josh Horne <txmedic4563@...> wrote: If

you use Steri-strips in lue of sutures or staples then it still counts as a

recordable. Otherwise they can be counted as a first aid.

1904.7((5)(ii)(D)

Using wound coverings such as bandages, Band-Aids™, gauze pads, etc.; or

using butterfly bandages or Steri-Strips™ (other wound closing devices such as

sutures, staples, etc., are considered medical treatment);

Josh

Shigone Beighle <shigone@...> wrote:

Steri strips is OSHA non recordable. Dermabond and sutures are OSHA

recordable

Brault wrote: RE: First Aid case (FAC) vs Medical Treatment

Case (MTC)

Pardon me. Very sorry, but I've seen this twice and can't agree. If a wound

requires Steri Strips I think OSHA rates that a MTC. A plaster or butterfly

might make it under the radar, but Steri Strips and sutures are roughly the

same in the eyes of the regulators.

***************************

I think we could do everydoby a favor by expanding the F-A category

The whole process is totally neurotic

It is totally result oriented (bonus... NO, not best care for employees)

Forcing us to chose between not reporting (fraud)

Or not treatingproperly (malpractice)

Overall I find medic are choosing malpractice over fraud

It is easy to surmise(hope) that the wound will heal properly and/or not

complicate

It is easy to tolerate somebody else's pain (caregiver have been doing this for

centuries)

Etc.

A on line " Medical " control could be one of the solution

Bringing a third party, a medical one at that

Would help better walk the fine line

And inpregnate certitudes in a process that is frought with opinions and

conflict of interests

This said

I fear " Medical " is just as corruptible than the Medic in the fields

Member Information:

List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@...

Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@...

ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the

list owner.

Post message: egroups

Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk

Regards

The Remote Medics Team