Re: sweat question

[Guest guest]

> On another topic...I ran into an old friend from work (now retired)

> the other day. Should I, or should I not, have begun the

> conversation with the comment, " I'm eating animal fat " ? It's kind of

> funny to see their bemused expressions (or should I say " shock " ?)

> after I say that. But is that how you win friends and influence

> people?

>

>

My friend that introduced me to NT ( I already had Price's other book, just

hadn't heard of NT) was talking on the phone to someone one day and she was

saying " Oh, I don't do lowfat " . I got a kick out of imaging what the person

on the other end was thinking. Of course, my friend is a skinny, tiny thing

so someone would think she doesn't " need " to eat lowfat. Since I still am

trying to lose 20lbs from having my last baby (now 2yo) it wouldn't be very

impressive to say I don't do lowfat. They just don't know that I have been

losing weight and I'm not gaining anything with all the fat we eat around

here. (I think I'm going to have to force myself to exercise/lift weights

to lose that 20 lbs).

Michele in WA

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Suze Fisher "

> i was also just thinking last night, and on and off lately, that my

mineral intake may be imbalanced because i eat a lot of meat without

calcium sources. in the community of people whoe feed their dogs a

home made diet, we are cognizant of balancing the calcium/phosphorous

ratio, which seems to be important to dogs. makes me think it might be

equally as important for us humans. according to the wapf,

traditional/primitive folks ate the bone

> (often as bone broths) - not just *meat* - so they were getting a

decent balance from the *whole* prey. i eat meat a lot without any

bone, or other source of calcium (and other synergistic minerals). i

used to take a ca supp. but stopped it a number of months ago, and

it's quite possible it

*** I wonder how societies ate bone, besides as broth. This site

recommends dolomite power (crushed bone):

http://www.mgwater.com/rodtitle.shtml (Chapter 9, how to eat enough

magnesium)

I don't recall a mention of dolomite in NT -- I wonder why not, if

traditional societies ate crushed bone? I wonder if bone broth is

equally in mineral content? Does anyone here take dolomite?

The site (mgwater.com) makes a strong case that practically all of us

are Mg deficient. I stopped drinking pure H2O and now put Concentrace

in my RO water. (Though I was concerned about the trace Fluoride in

Concentrace.) What a difference, drinking mineral enhanced water, I

don't have to pee each time I drink some water.

daphneb.

[Guest guest]

>I don't recall a mention of dolomite in NT -- I wonder why not, if

>traditional societies ate crushed bone? I wonder if bone broth is

>equally in mineral content? Does anyone here take dolomite?

Dolomite is limestone, I think, not bone. I did take bonemeal pills when I

was a kid (my Dad made us). I think Sally recommends the bone broths more

because the calcium would be in an easier to use form -- I know we've had

arguments over how much calcium is in the broths, but I recently came

across a gardening tip that recommended soaking eggshells in water and

using the water on your plants to give them extra calcium. Somehow the

calcium is absorbed faster than just putting the eggshells in the dirt?

Also I'd guess that eating clay (Azomite, which she recommends) would have

some dolomite in it.

I think " bonemeal pills " are out of favor because of the mad cow scare --

you can still buy bonemeal for the garden though. I put it on my plants and

the chickens ate it -- they are still alive.

==============

http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/carbonat/dolomite/dolomite.htm

· Chemistry: CaMg(CO3)2, Calcium Magnesium Carbonate

· Class: · Carbonates

· Group: · Dolomite

· Uses: in some cements, as a source of magnesium and as mineral

specimens.

· · Specimens

Dolomite, which is named for the French mineralogist Deodat de Dolomieu, is

a common sedimentary rock-forming mineral that can be found in massive beds

several hundred feet thick. They are found all over the world and are quite

common in sedimentary rock sequences. These rocks are called appropriately

enough dolomite or dolomitic limestone

[Guest guest]

> Should I, or should I not, have begun the

> conversation with the comment, " I'm eating animal fat " ? It's kind

of funny to see their bemused expressions (or should I say " shock " ?)

> after I say that. But is that how you win friends and influence

> people?

OH, MY GOD! LOL! I can really relate! Yes, I am also trying to think

of an acceptable way to ease into such " shocking " news. So far I've

been just avoiding the subject. I don't want to loose all my friends

by sharing about my " radical " diet!

[Guest guest]

> Since I still am

> trying to lose 20lbs from having my last baby (now 2yo) it wouldn't

be very

> impressive to say I don't do lowfat. They just don't know that I

have been

> losing weight and I'm not gaining anything with all the fat we eat

around

> here. (I think I'm going to have to force myself to exercise/lift

weights

> to lose that 20 lbs).

>

> Michele in WA

Have you tried coconut oil? When I got a bucket from Tropical

Traditions last year and made a point of using it a few times a week

(it's gone now and money is tight), I could not help but notice that

I seemed to lose facial fat overnight. It was a hoot!

If you have any reason to believe you might be hypothyroid, then you

should give coconut oil a try. It revs up your thyroid, which revs

up your metabolism.

You've heard the bit, haven't you, about how they tried to fatten

livestock on it, but they just got slimmer and slimmer. Then they

switched to feeding grain and vegetable oil to fatten them.

P.S. The retired friend I was talking about did tell me they thought

my skin and hair looked better than they remembered. Most people do

say that when I talk about eating animal fat.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " eduyndam " <eleanore22@h...>

wrote:

>

> > Should I, or should I not, have begun the

> > conversation with the comment, " I'm eating animal fat " ? It's

kind

> of funny to see their bemused expressions (or should I

say " shock " ?)

> > after I say that. But is that how you win friends and influence

> > people?

>

> OH, MY GOD! LOL! I can really relate! Yes, I am also trying to

think

> of an acceptable way to ease into such " shocking " news. So far I've

> been just avoiding the subject. I don't want to loose all my

friends

> by sharing about my " radical " diet!

Heh-heh...I usually just listen to whatever their (or their SO's)

physical complaints are. More often than not, I can link using

animal fat (or avoiding soy or hydrogenated oil) with improvement in

that condition, often from my own experience. If I can't, then I do

some research. I figure I might run into them later, or perhaps

someone else in a similar position.

[Guest guest]

> Dolomite is limestone, I think, not bone. I did take bonemeal pills

when I

> was a kid (my Dad made us). I think Sally recommends the bone broths

more

Oops... the author of the mgwater.com book recommends both bone powder

*and* dolomite and I 'combined' them in my mind.

Honestly it's hard to think about ingesting either one (bone or

stone). Hopefully with attention to diet we're getting enough

minerals. Hard to know.

Here's a nifty idea. A digital calculator where you punch in your food

intake and it displays your (approx) nutrient intake. It would have

to be NT friendly because your 'average' calculator wouldn't include

data on things like bone broths, kefir, femented vegies.

Any programmers out there?

[Guest guest]

biophile410 wrote:

> Here's a nifty idea. A digital calculator where you punch in your food

> intake and it displays your (approx) nutrient intake. It would have

> to be NT friendly because your 'average' calculator wouldn't include

> data on things like bone broths, kefir, femented vegies.

> Any programmers out there?

Can you provide data to be used in such calculator?

Roman

[Guest guest]

>Here's a nifty idea. A digital calculator where you punch in your food

>intake and it displays your (approx) nutrient intake. It would have

>to be NT friendly because your 'average' calculator wouldn't include

>data on things like bone broths, kefir, femented vegies.

>Any programmers out there?

Yeah, me! I did a program for me, but it isn't user friendly enough for

anyone else. They have them for sale though, and you can add your own

foods. Some run on a PDA so you can punch stuff in as you go. You can get

fairly inexpensive programs for the PC though. Or just use a spreadsheet.

The " Raw data " is available for free download from the government, though

you may disagree with their values (and a lot of depends how the cabbage

was grown, for instance). But I have found tracking my intake to be

invaluable, esp. from a " food reaction " viewpoint.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

> > Here's a nifty idea. A digital calculator where you punch in

your food

> > intake and it displays your (approx) nutrient intake. It would

have

> > to be NT friendly because your 'average' calculator wouldn't

include

> > data on things like bone broths, kefir, femented vegies.

> > Any programmers out there?

>

> Can you provide data to be used in such calculator?

>

> Roman

*** Not off the top of my head ;-)

It would have to be a team effort... interested people like you and

me, scouring scientific papers, textbooks, etc. to obtain what

data we could. It would be the 'open source' project (like linux) of

native nutrition.

(They say I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one.)

daphne b.

[Guest guest]

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>>Here's a nifty idea. A digital calculator where you punch in your food

>>intake and it displays your (approx) nutrient intake. It would have

>>to be NT friendly because your 'average' calculator wouldn't include

>>data on things like bone broths, kefir, femented vegies.

>>Any programmers out there?

>

> The " Raw data " is available for free download from the government, though

> you may disagree with their values (and a lot of depends how the cabbage

> was grown, for instance). But I have found tracking my intake to be

> invaluable, esp. from a " food reaction " viewpoint.

I haven't seen kefir or bone broths there. Have you?

Sauerkraut is listed only as canned. I've read in another group that fermented

foods are very rich in vitamin K, but the government database (USDA) doesn't

list it at all. And somehow they found vitamin A there. Not much (18 IU), but

still... it's a plant that is not supposed to have real vitamin A.

I have no trust in USDA nutritional database.

Roman

[Guest guest]

>I haven't seen kefir or bone broths there. Have you?

>

>Sauerkraut is listed only as canned. I've read in another group that

>fermented foods are very rich in vitamin K, but the government database

>(USDA) doesn't list it at all. And somehow they found vitamin A there. Not

>much (18 IU), but still... it's a plant that is not supposed to have real

>vitamin A.

>

>I have no trust in USDA nutritional database.

Nor does anyone else really trust it. Every food varies too much, and

everyone eats different things. That's why you need to be able to enter

your own values ... and even then the vitamin values are likely to be off.

But ... you ALSO don't know how much your body is using, on any given day,

or how much is absorbable. And fermented stuff can vary from batch to batch.

On the other hand, if you can gather 5 months of data and run a program to

say " in these 5 months, how often did my joints hurt? How good were my

workouts? How much sleep did I average? When I get a migraine, what foods

are commonly eaten in the previous 24 hours (by frequency)? THEN you have

something interesting! (That is my goal -- to create a program where people

can analyze their own patterns, food and everything else). You should be

able to enter spur of the moment problems too, like " STINKYSWEAT " as a

symptom!

I've been trying to use it to analyze " how soon after a meal of XYZ do I

feel hungry? " -- assuming that the " correct " meal would be both more

satisfying and longer-lived than an " incorrect " meal (which likely

stimulates blood sugar in an un-useful way). But just the act of keeping

track focuses your mind nicely.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>>I have no trust in USDA nutritional database.

>

> Nor does anyone else really trust it.

Oh, I've talked to people who think it's accurate. The last such person I talked

to also believes that the latests scientific studies are always better than

older ones. WAP is a nobody to her. And so is Mercola and other " quacks " , as she

calls them.

Roman

[Guest guest]

>>>>One thing that seems to help: I've been using Concentrace in my RO

water. I was concerned that it contains trace amount of Fluoride.

----->i started using that recently too, on kris johnson's recommendation.

i'm not worried about *trace* amounts of flouride - i think that's probably

a more " natural " amount to have than what you might ingest from flouridated

water or toothpaste.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> ----->it makes me sweat and the sweat smells bad. i'm guessing this is not

> healthy.

>>oh, i thought you meant specifically organic shade-grown coffee as

compared

to other coffee. when you sweat when you workout at the gym, does it also

smell similarly? is there a greater correlation between the smell and *why*

you're sweating (i.e. exercise versus coffee), or between the smell and what

you

eaten or drank lately that might have a higher or lower toxin load?

------>i'd say that my sweat started smelling bad in general a number of

months ago. i've gone through at least *one* period in that time that i

noticed it didn't smell when i was working out. and when i work out i don't

smell it as much as when i drink coffee. coffee seems to have the strongest

effect. also, when i work out i get sweat beads on my face, chest, stomach

and other areas of my body, but when i drink coffee - i only sweat under my

arms - and that seems to be the only area that produces smelly sweat. i have

a vague feeling it has to do with adrenals, but don't know for sure. it

could be a more efficient liver for all i know, or maybe because i'm getting

more of the nutrients necessary for phase II detoxification enzymes, such as

fish oil, so my body's better able to remove toxins. i do think i'm getting

far less toxins in my diet than previously, but could well have many stored

in my fat from years of accumulation. dunno...

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

At 01:48 AM 6/10/03 -0500, you wrote:

>Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

>>>I have no trust in USDA nutritional database.

>>

>> Nor does anyone else really trust it.

>

>Oh, I've talked to people who think it's accurate. The last such person I

talked to also believes that the latests scientific studies are always better

than older ones. WAP is a nobody to her. And so is Mercola and other " quacks " ,

as she calls them.

>

>Roman

Love how " quacks " are considered people who " can " think beyond a cabbage is a

cabbage is a cabbage. True science, in this case in a nutritional database

would include at least an average derived from testing all products of the

kind

based on wherever it is produced, at picking time, after transportation and by

method prepared for consumption. Then there's seed variety, hybrid or open

pollinated, soil quality, soil nutrient composition and weather conditions.

USDA ran an article on the downfall of nutrition in foods they've tested over

the years. Personally, I'd tend to believe that older studies would be less

likely to be sponsored by interests looking for their result. That even though

they don't have the latest findings to consider they still may have had the

understanding of how nature works and included those processes toward their

result.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Protein is a big factor in smelly sweat. If your eating more animal

protein that could be it.

-S

[Guest guest]

>coffee seems to have the strongest

> effect. also, when i work out i get sweat beads on my face, chest, stomach

> and other areas of my body, but when i drink coffee -

Suze,

How about stopping the coffee? You know it's not good for you.

I'm on my 4th day of giving up coffee - And I'm still alive!! I used to

drink a pot a day. It's a monkey I thought would always be on my back.

You can do it too. Just stop buying coffee. I could have never stopped if I

had it in the house.

Sorry, can't help with the sweat thing - but your body will thank you if you

quit the caffeine.

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>Protein is a big factor in smelly sweat. If your eating more animal

protein that could be it.

---->really? how does protein make your sweat smelly? one bad habit i have,

is eating late and going to bed on a full stomach. my dinner always includes

meat, too - so usually plenty of protein. i'm trying to get in the habit of

not going to bed with a full stomach, as i think that's pretty bad for my

digestion.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>Suze,

How about stopping the coffee? You know it's not good for you.

I'm on my 4th day of giving up coffee - And I'm still alive!! I used to

drink a pot a day. It's a monkey I thought would always be on my back.

---->oh, i stopped yesterday! i think it is ok to have occassionally,

probably, but i thought i should try not to have it every day. i'll stop it

for a while now to see what happens. i don't have any withdrawl sypmtoms

that i've noticed, luckily :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I have tried eating coconut oil and coconut -- I even got a fresh

coconut, but I can't eat any of it because I always get a stomach

ache after I eat any coconut product. Does anyone else have this

problem? Is there a different version of coconut oil that is

better? The one I had was Spectrum...but I also tried the fresh, and

had the same reaction to the coconut meat, water, and oil.

Ann

--- In , " " >

> Have you tried coconut oil? When I got a bucket from Tropical

> Traditions last year and made a point of using it a few times a

week

> (it's gone now and money is tight), I could not help but notice

that

> I seemed to lose facial fat overnight. It was a hoot!

>

> If you have any reason to believe you might be hypothyroid, then

you

> should give coconut oil a try. It revs up your thyroid, which revs

> up your metabolism.

>

> You've heard the bit, haven't you, about how they tried to fatten

> livestock on it, but they just got slimmer and slimmer. Then they

> switched to feeding grain and vegetable oil to fatten them.

>

>

>

> P.S. The retired friend I was talking about did tell me they

thought

> my skin and hair looked better than they remembered. Most people

do

> say that when I talk about eating animal fat.

[Guest guest]

Suze,

> ---->really? how does protein make your sweat smelly?

Sweat is composed of fat and protein. The more protein you eat, the more

will come out in sweat. In particular if your not using it elsewhere

like for energy or muscle repair. Excess protein.

The smell of sweat is not the protein or fat, but the bacteria that lives

off of it. In more disgusting terms, it's the excrement of the bacteria

that smells. So when you feed the bacteria lots of extra protein, it

thrives and multiplies and gets smelly. Bacteria loves protein.

The coffee will make you perspire more because it raises heart rate and

blood pressure and body temp (at least at first) so you will sweat more

and that will excrete the extra protein/fat in your system.

I guess using this same logic one could say the fat is just as equally to

blame. It's an easy thing to test just cut back on fat or protein for a

few days and see the effects. It might be a sign your getting too much of

one or the other or both. Exercising might also help to burn up the

excess.

BTW if it smells like amonia its a sign of liver disease

Also check out " Body Mint " which is a natural tablet that does a pretty

job at cutting body odor but costs $$

http://www.bodymint.com/

--

[Guest guest]

Suze Fisher wrote:

>also, when i work out i get sweat beads on my face, chest, stomach

> and other areas of my body, but when i drink coffee - i only sweat under my

> arms - and that seems to be the only area that produces smelly sweat. i have

> a vague feeling it has to do with adrenals, but don't know for sure.

When I am nervous, I sweat only under my arms. So, maybe it does have something

to do with adrenals.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Balbach wrote:

> Suze,

>

>

>>---->really? how does protein make your sweat smelly?

>

>

> Sweat is composed of fat and protein. The more protein you eat, the more

> will come out in sweat. In particular if your not using it elsewhere

> like for energy or muscle repair. Excess protein.

From http://science.howstuffworks.com/sweat1.htm:

" There are two types of sweat glands:

- Eccrine - the most numerous type that are found all over the body,

particularly on the palms of the hands, soles of the feet and forehead

- Apocrine - mostly confined to the armpits (axilla) and the anal-genital area.

They typically end in hair follicles rather than pores.

Compared to apocrine glands, eccrine glands:

- are smaller

- are active from birth (Apocrine glands become active only at puberty)

- produce a sweat that is *free of proteins and fatty acids*

From http://www.howstuffworks.com/sweat2.htm, " First, let's concentrate on how

sweat is made in an *eccrine* sweat gland. When the sweat gland is stimulated,

the cells secrete a fluid (primary secretion) that is similar to plasma -- that

is, it is mostly water and it has high concentrations of sodium and chloride and

a low concentration of potassium -- but *without the proteins and fatty acids*

that are normally found in plasma.

<snip>

Sweat is produced in *apocrine* sweat glands in the same way. However, the

sweat from apocrine glands also contains *proteins and fatty acids*, which make

it thicker and give it a milkier or yellowish color. This is why underarm stains

in clothing appear yellowish. Sweat itself has no odor, but when bacteria on the

skin and hair metabolize the proteins and fatty acids, they produce an

unpleasant odor. This is why deodorants and anti-perspirants are applied to the

underarms instead of the whole body. "

Roman

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/10/03 4:27:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

stephen@... writes:

> I guess using this same logic one could say the fat is just as equally to

> blame. It's an easy thing to test just cut back on fat or protein for a

> few days and see the effects. It might be a sign your getting too much of

> one or the other or both. Exercising might also help to burn up the

> excess.

Then why do I eat a pound of meat and a quart and a half of milk's worth of

protein, alongside a 70-85% fat diet and have virtually no smell whatsoever to

my sweat (maybe moderate but less than average under the arms)?

-chris