RE: NT, weight gain, thyroid

[Guest guest]

Carol-

>I exercise

>(vigorous cardio and weight training) 5 days a week.

I don't know how much stock to put in it, but Ray Peat's theory is that

excessive exercise depresses the thyroid. I don't remember whether he

believes it depresses T4 production or T4-T3 conversion, though. Are you

taking a T3 supplement?

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/7/03 7:01:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ----->is there some kind of *objective* standard here? i do 20 mins cardio

> and probably no more than 30 mins weight lifting, with the remainder being

> stretching and resting between reps. is that a lot??? this is an area i

> don't know much about...i just do it because it feels good, gives me great

> energy and is transforming my body in ways that i love :-)

that's definitely *not* a lot. if i have time to do it as slowly as i like,

my weight training workout takes about an hour and a half. however, i do it

faster than i did when i first started, and i do an aerobic warmup for 15

minutes, and spend 5 minutes stretching. half the time is waiting between sets.

i

prefer to go 3 times a week, but often have the time only for two, and have

missed my workout for weeks now and can't wait to get back to it.

-chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/7/03 7:14:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, romeml@...

writes:

> Oh, if you do that for pleasure, then time is probably irrelevant... until

> a certain point. I was thinking of the most efficient way to exercise. Some

> people think that they have to exercise (resistance type) a lot (30, 60, and

> more min a day many days a week) to become stronger. And that is not true.

>

how much stronger and how fast? and for who? everybody is different, and

some people might want to put on muscle faster than others. i could gain muscle

in *one* area *slowly* by doing 5 minutes a day, but if i want to increase

muscle mass as quick as i can without wearing myself out, and want to do so in

my whole body, i need to do it 3 times a week, and take at least an hour for a

full-body workout, considering all the time needed to wait between sets for

your muscles to recoup.

-chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/7/03 7:49:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ----->how much time do you wait between reps? i'm the world's most

> impatient

> person, so tend to have very short rest periods between reps :-( i do try to

> force myself to make them longer, but i almost can't stand the inactivity,

> and just don't know what to do with myself otherwise, so tend to jump from

> one set to the next. this may be one reason my energy tends to dip some

> days.

1 minute. 30-45 seconds on my warmup sets. i do 5 sets of 10 reps, 1 at

60%, 1 at 80%, then three heavy sets. when i can do 10 on all three heavy sets

i

increase my weight 10 lbs. e.g. on the vertical chest press i'll do 60 lbs

10 times, wait 45 seconds, do 80 lbs 10 times, wait 45-60 seconds, do 100 lbs

10 times, wait one minute, do 100 lbs 8 times and hit exhaustion, wait one

minute, do 100 lbs six times and hit exhaustion. i do that each time i workout

until the last two sets are up to ten, then move up.

-chris

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

Carol Saunders wrote:

> I exercise (vigorous cardio and weight training) 5 days a week.

Do you do weight training that often or do split 5 days between cardio and

weight training?

Roman

[Guest guest]

--- Roman <romeml@...> wrote:

> Carol Saunders wrote:

> > I exercise (vigorous cardio and weight training) 5

> days a week.

>

> Do you do weight training that often or do split 5

> days between cardio and weight training?

I have done Body For Life style workouts in the past

but currently I am finishing up BodyRx, which is 4 a

four day split. I add some cardio on weight days,

plus one extra day of just cardio.

[Guest guest]

-- Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Carol-

>

> >I exercise

> >(vigorous cardio and weight training) 5 days a

> week.

>

> I don't know how much stock to put in it, but Ray

> Peat's theory is that

> excessive exercise depresses the thyroid. I don't

> remember whether he believes it depresses T4

> production or T4-T3 conversion, though. Are you

> taking a T3 supplement?

> -

I started with low dose T3 (Cytomel) this past

Wednesday, along with instructions from the doctor on

titrating up. I feel that it is helping - time will

tell.

A book called the Fat Flush recommends rebounding

alone for the first 2 weeks of the plan. I thought

that part was interesting and would like to hear

anyones experience with this mode of exercise.

Working with weights give me a great sense of mental

strengh and I enjoy it alot. I am going though this

cardio phase now - I am sure it will pass, LOL.

Carol

[Guest guest]

It must differ from person to person. I do my sets so I can do a maximum of

ten reps before muscle failure, but my workout lasts an hour and a half. For

a given set of muscles, after I go to muscle failure once, it takes me about

one minute to be able to lift again. And I go from machine to machine, working

out different muscle groups. I don't have time to work out all my muscle

groups while doing it very slowly unfortunately, and if I go *too* slow, I get

problems with trying to coordinate my breathing. But I do put my weight down as

slowly as I possibly can on the last lift usually, which tears me apart. I

do feel like rubber driving home sometimes. But in any case, I think my

workout is sufficiently heavy, yet I can go for quite a while. I've done counts

of

ten before-- I was still able to work out for an hour, hour-and-a-half, but I

didn't continue it because I couldn't breathe right with it. Everybody's

different.

-chris

In a message dated 6/7/03 8:24:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I agree. If you can go for 1.25 then I'd guess the weights are too light

> ... after 15 minutes my body is like a rubberband and I can't move for an

> hour!

>

> I did " light weights " for a long time until I read an article about how

> they used heavy weights (so the person can't do more than 8 reps), with

> only one set, on elderly women. And they got great results! Using light

> weights and resistence bands on the old ladies did not much good at all,

> but the heavy weights helped with arthritis etc. and they had some who

> could barely move, climbing stairs in a week or two.

>

> I get 200% better results doing my little 5 reps very slowly (count 8 up,

> count 8 down, until you *can't* do any more) than I ever did doing 3 sets

> of 20. It is much, much harder though -- I groan a lot.

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

I started with low dose T3 (Cytomel) this past

Wednesday, along with instructions from the doctor on

titrating up. I feel that it is helping - time will

tell.

A book called the Fat Flush recommends rebounding

alone for the first 2 weeks of the plan. I thought

that part was interesting and would like to hear

anyones experience with this mode of exercise.

Working with weights give me a great sense of mental

strengh and I enjoy it alot. I am going though this

cardio phase now - I am sure it will pass, LOL.

----->Carol, how vigorous is your regimen? and for how long do you train 5

days/week? I also do a combo of resistance and cardio training 5 days/week

for about an hour to 1.25 hours/day. but i consider it to be *mild*

training. i suspect i may have had subclinical mild hypothyroid for years,

but haven't been able to see a doc about it yet. hope to this year. i'd be

interested to know how you do on the new thyroid meds that you're taking.

i love rebounding, but my knees are not so great from past injuries, so

rebounding usually aggravates the pain. otherwise i'd be doing it fairly

often. i too LOVE weight lifting - feeling the power of my body and muscles

flexing when i walk, move, turn, reach etc. feels sublime ;-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze Fisher wrote:

I also do a combo of resistance and cardio training 5 days/week

> for about an hour to 1.25 hours/day. but i consider it to be *mild*

> training.

1.25/day is a lot. Just 5 min of weight lifting a day twice a week is enough to

build strength in the whole body, provided that weight is such that it limits

your max reps to about 5.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Carol Saunders wrote:

> I have done Body For Life style workouts in the past

> but currently I am finishing up BodyRx, which is 4 a

> four day split. I add some cardio on weight days,

> plus one extra day of just cardio.

I don't know what your goal for weight lifting is, but doing it 4 days a week is

not necessary if you do that to build strength. 2-3 times a week is enough.

Roman

[Guest guest]

Suze Fisher wrote:

I also do a combo of resistance and cardio training 5 days/week

> for about an hour to 1.25 hours/day. but i consider it to be *mild*

> training.

1.25/day is a lot. Just 5 min of weight lifting a day twice a week is enough

to build strength in the whole body, provided that weight is such that it

limits your max reps to about 5.

----->is there some kind of *objective* standard here? i do 20 mins cardio

and probably no more than 30 mins weight lifting, with the remainder being

stretching and resting between reps. is that a lot??? this is an area i

don't know much about...i just do it because it feels good, gives me great

energy and is transforming my body in ways that i love :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze Fisher wrote:

> ----->is there some kind of *objective* standard here? i do 20 mins cardio

> and probably no more than 30 mins weight lifting, with the remainder being

> stretching and resting between reps. is that a lot??? this is an area i

> don't know much about...i just do it because it feels good, gives me great

> energy and is transforming my body in ways that i love :-)

Oh, if you do that for pleasure, then time is probably irrelevant... until a

certain point. I was thinking of the most efficient way to exercise. Some people

think that they have to exercise (resistance type) a lot (30, 60, and more min a

day many days a week) to become stronger. And that is not true.

Roman

[Guest guest]

>1.25/day is a lot. Just 5 min of weight lifting a day twice a week is

>enough to build strength in the whole body, provided that weight is such

>that it limits your max reps to about 5.

>

>Roman

I agree. If you can go for 1.25 then I'd guess the weights are too light

.... after 15 minutes my body is like a rubberband and I can't move for an hour!

I did " light weights " for a long time until I read an article about how

they used heavy weights (so the person can't do more than 8 reps), with

only one set, on elderly women. And they got great results! Using light

weights and resistence bands on the old ladies did not much good at all,

but the heavy weights helped with arthritis etc. and they had some who

could barely move, climbing stairs in a week or two.

I get 200% better results doing my little 5 reps very slowly (count 8 up,

count 8 down, until you *can't* do any more) than I ever did doing 3 sets

of 20. It is much, much harder though -- I groan a lot.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>>>>how much stronger and how fast? and for who? everybody is different,

and

some people might want to put on muscle faster than others. i could gain

muscle

in *one* area *slowly* by doing 5 minutes a day, but if i want to increase

muscle mass as quick as i can without wearing myself out, and want to do so

in

my whole body, i need to do it 3 times a week, and take at least an hour for

a

full-body workout, considering all the time needed to wait between sets for

your muscles to recoup.

----->how much time do you wait between reps? i'm the world's most impatient

person, so tend to have very short rest periods between reps :-( i do try to

force myself to make them longer, but i almost can't stand the inactivity,

and just don't know what to do with myself otherwise, so tend to jump from

one set to the next. this may be one reason my energy tends to dip some

days.

hopelessly impatient,

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> > ----->is there some kind of *objective* standard here?

There are tons of objective studies on it, and more being done all the

time. The bottom line for bone mass is that the weight has to be heavy to

affect bone building. And that to build muscle, you need to exercise to

failure. There was one study that showed that 1 set of reps built muscle

just as fast as 3 sets, another that says you can plateau on that regimen:

http://www.robeks.com/Library/Document01.asp?PT=D & PID=351

The verdict is still out on whether one slow set works better than the

tried-and-true three sets. Kraemer, director of the human

performance laboratory at Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana comments

on this in a recent article from WebMD Medical News. Kraemer's research on

trained athletes suggests that after four to six months, one-set exercisers

tend to plateau, whereas multiple-set exercisers continue to gain strength.

Kraemer advocates " periodization, " or periodically changing the number of

sets and reps in your program every two to four weeks. Many experts agree

it's a good idea to vary your workouts to keep challenging your body in new

ways.

-----

And the super-slow routine really does seem to be effective, though it is

less enjoyable in a lot of ways! See:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_17/b3729136.htm

Building Strength Fast by Going Slow

After dentist Kafko, 53, had surgery on two vertebrae in his neck,

doctors told him he would have to avoid strenuous activity for the rest of

his life--and definitely no weight-lifting. But after reviewing the

slow-motion strength training offered at New York's InForm Fitness, " my

neurosurgeon is thrilled that I'm doing this, because it is so safe and

effective, " says Kafko. In three months, he says, he has gained 1 1/2

inches in his chest and lost 1 1/2 inches in his waist.

And here's the best part: The routine takes only 20 minutes, once or twice

a week--and you don't even break a sweat, so there's no need to shower and

change. Some clients, including Kafko, work out in their business clothes.

Compare that with the hour or so, three or four times a week, of a regular

machine or free-weight workout, plus locker-room time.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I agree. If you can go for 1.25 then I'd guess the weights are too light

.... after 15 minutes my body is like a rubberband and I can't move for an

hour!

----->well, only about 30 mins of that is weight lifting!

I did " light weights " for a long time until I read an article about how

they used heavy weights (so the person can't do more than 8 reps), with

only one set, on elderly women. And they got great results! Using light

weights and resistence bands on the old ladies did not much good at all,

but the heavy weights helped with arthritis etc. and they had some who

could barely move, climbing stairs in a week or two.

I get 200% better results doing my little 5 reps very slowly (count 8 up,

count 8 down, until you *can't* do any more) than I ever did doing 3 sets

of 20. It is much, much harder though -- I groan a lot.

----> i think i'm a " tweener " - because of my knee issue, i tend to not tax

my *legs*...doing resistance below my potential so as not to injure my

knees. but, i DO tax my upper body, and sometimes feel like i take on more

weight than i can handle. some stuff i can only do 8-10 reps max, so i guess

my upper body training is similar to yours, but below the waist is the other

side of the coin.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>>And here's the best part: The routine takes only 20 minutes, once or

twice

a week--and you don't even break a sweat, so there's no need to shower and

change. Some clients, including Kafko, work out in their business clothes.

Compare that with the hour or so, three or four times a week, of a regular

machine or free-weight workout, plus locker-room time.

------->hmmm....well i LIKE to sweat :-) it seems weird to work out and not

sweat. i think it may be an important part of excercise...helping " clean

house " of fat-soluble toxins.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

I appreciate all of the comments. Thanks to all.

I have been following the workout component (not the

nutrition component) of BodyRx since the start of the

year. It is a six month periodization program that

changes every six weeks. This program was the first

time I lifted heavy with low reps, which I found

enjoyable. It splits the body 4 ways where each part

is worked once a week, the added day of cardio was my

doing, and I added cardio to each workout during this

last six week cycle because this particular period has

not been as demanding as the earlier cycles.

I like the habit of exercising 5 days a week; each

workout lasts about an hour. Any less and I might be

guided back to “couch potatodom “. My ultimate goal

is to loose a considerable amount more body fat; right

now I am around 39% (down from over 50% in 2000).

Heidi, I considered doing a super slow program next

but I had only looked into it briefly. Thanks for the

info.

I agree that there are a lot of studies on the

subject. When I first got started, I was overwhelmed,

until I realized that I didn’t see any studies using

38 year old, insulin resistant, fat women (ha, ha).

Now I could add hypothyroid to that list. Anyway, I

am exercising and that is a good thing.

It is also interesting to read that the rebounding

aggravated your knees. I have bad knees too and I

cannot to hallmark lower body exercises such as leg

extensions, squats or lunges. I would have thought

rebounding would be gentle on the knees. Oh well.

) Carol

--- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> I started with low dose T3 (Cytomel) this past

> Wednesday, along with instructions from the doctor

> on

> titrating up. I feel that it is helping - time will

> tell.

>

> A book called the Fat Flush recommends rebounding

> alone for the first 2 weeks of the plan. I thought

> that part was interesting and would like to hear

> anyones experience with this mode of exercise.

>

> Working with weights give me a great sense of mental

> strengh and I enjoy it alot. I am going though this

> cardio phase now - I am sure it will pass, LOL.

>

> ----->Carol, how vigorous is your regimen? and for

> how long do you train 5

> days/week? I also do a combo of resistance and

> cardio training 5 days/week

> for about an hour to 1.25 hours/day. but i consider

> it to be *mild*

> training. i suspect i may have had subclinical mild

> hypothyroid for years,

> but haven't been able to see a doc about it yet.

> hope to this year. i'd be

> interested to know how you do on the new thyroid

> meds that you're taking.

>

> i love rebounding, but my knees are not so great

> from past injuries, so

> rebounding usually aggravates the pain. otherwise

> i'd be doing it fairly

> often. i too LOVE weight lifting - feeling the power

> of my body and muscles

> flexing when i walk, move, turn, reach etc. feels

> sublime ;-)

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Suze Fisher wrote:

> ------->hmmm....well i LIKE to sweat :-) it seems weird to work out and not

> sweat. i think it may be an important part of excercise...helping " clean

> house " of fat-soluble toxins.

Why would fat soluble toxins exit with sweat? Isn't sweat mostly water?

Roman

[Guest guest]

> ----->is there some kind of *objective* standard here? i do 20 mins cardio

> and probably no more than 30 mins weight lifting, with the remainder being

> stretching and resting between reps. is that a lot??? this is an area i

> don't know much about...i just do it because it feels good, gives me great

> energy and is transforming my body in ways that i love :-)

Oh, if you do that for pleasure, then time is probably irrelevant... until a

certain point. I was thinking of the most efficient way to exercise. Some

people think that they have to exercise (resistance type) a lot (30, 60, and

more min a day many days a week) to become stronger. And that is not true.

----->i don't think i really have more time than 1 to 1.5 hours to dedicate

to it anyway :-) it's just fun and gets me out of my home office which is

really boring if i don't get out and do something physical and social from

time to time. my gym is kind of like cheers the bar - my friend, whom i grew

up with, owns it and there's a regular crowd at the same time every day, so

you get to know people, so i chat and joke around with them as i train :-)

it's a small town, homey-type of place - not a big impersonal gym, which i

don't think i would enjoy.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>Why would fat soluble toxins exit with sweat? Isn't sweat mostly water?

----->yeah, it is. but i'm under the impression from stuff i've read that

the body excretes fat-soluble toxins in sweat (althouhgh, not *only* through

sweat), which is one reason saunas are supposed to be so healthy, i think.

here is something from the national library of medicine:

" Excretion of xenobiotics [foriegn chemicals] in all other body secretions

or tissues (including the saliva, sweat, tears, hair, and skin) are of only

minor importance. Under conditions of great sweat production, excretion in

sweat may reach a significant degree. Some metals, including cadmium,

copper, iron, lead, nickel, and zinc, may be eliminated in sweat to some

extent. Xenobiotics that passively diffuse into saliva may be swallowed and

absorbed by the gastrointestinal system. The excretion of some substances

into saliva is responsible for the unpleasant taste that sometimes occurs

with time after exposure to a substance. "

http://www.sis.nlm.nih.gov/ToxTutor/Tox2/a55.htm

water-soluble toxins, according to the merck manual, are generall excreted

via the kidneys. i think the fat-soluble ones that get stored, are excreted

by all the routes listed above as well as through bile, and am guessing that

generally bile would be a major route of elimination?

from merck:

" Metabolism of Poisons

Absoprtion occurs by way of the alimentary tract, skin, lungs, or via the

eye, mammary gland <snip>......the primary factor affecting absorption is

solubility.....Distribution or translocation of the toxicant follows via

the bloodstream to reactive sites, including storage depots. The liver

receives the portal circulation and it is the organ most commonly involved

with intoxication (and detoxication). The selective deposit of foreign

chemicals (xenobiotics) in various tissues is because of receptor sites.

The ease of chemical distribution depends largely on its water solubility.

Polar- or aqueous-soluble agents tend to be excreted by the kidney;

lipid-soluble chemicals are more likely to accumulate in fat depots. "

this is just my opinion...but when my own sweat smells bad, or i smell

someone else's and it has an " off " odor, i tend to think that's toxins being

excreted. although i could be totally wrong...i don't know. i used to date a

guy years ago who LIVED on diet soda...i can't even count how many he drank

a day, and his sweat tasted awful! OTOH, my sweat isn't always sweet

smelling either ;-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Free weights are certainly the way to go. Muscle mass is very much a

function of genetics. There are some people like myself who can work out

for years and put on little muscle mass, we are known as " hard gainers " .

I can also eat whatever I want and not gain weight. Only about %20 of the

population has the genetic material to be a bulky body-builder.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/8/03 8:53:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> .

>

> ----->i don't think i really have more time than 1 to 1.5 hours to dedicate

> to it anyway :-) it's just fun and gets me out of my home office which is

> really boring if i don't get out and do something physical and social from

> time to time. my gym is kind of like cheers the bar - my friend, whom i grew

> up with, owns it and there's a regular crowd at the same time every day, so

> you get to know people, so i chat and joke around with them as i train :-)

> it's a small town, homey-type of place - not a big impersonal gym, which i

> don't think i would enjoy.

Now see mine is ordinarily a big impersonal gym, but at 5am, it's very much

like cheers. One more reason to go early...

-chris

[Guest guest]

>When I first got started, I was overwhelmed,

>until I realized that I didn't see any studies using

>38 year old, insulin resistant, fat women (ha, ha).

>Now I could add hypothyroid to that list. Anyway, I

>am exercising and that is a good thing.

Bottom line: I agree. If you exercise, that is good !!!! I've also read

that at the " beginner " levels, everyone improves pretty quickly, no matter

what system they use. It's at the heavy-duty levels that people really work

at the " right " workout. For us older out of shape women -- anything is

better than sitting at a keyboard!

My FAVORITE exercise is gardening -- get all that sunlight too. I do the

weights because I can't get out as often as I'd like (kids to watch! and

lots of rain), and because it strengthens my arms and hands (so I can carry

heavy stuff! I have these little delicate " piano hands " ). Legs I still

don't have down -- I did the machines at the club, which work for bad knees

pretty well, but again, it's hard to get out with the kids. Slow-mo on the

stairs works pretty well though, as does yoga (with the yoga, my knee

problems " go away " for a day, so it seems to be a muscle balance thing).

-- Heidi