Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 I, too, would be interested in this information. Especially preservatives for hand cremes and body butters. Thanks- Beth in Louisville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 In a message dated 12/29/99 11:00:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, EAKLOU@... writes: << I, too, would be interested in this information. & nbsp; Especially preservatives for hand cremes and body butters. Thanks- >> Could you send me info too. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 In a message dated 12/29/1999 11:46:59 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ftaylor@... writes: << I do use Vitamin E but I also use Potassium Sorbate and Gum Benzoin. I feel comfortable with them. >> Just wondering how much and how to use these products in say an 8 oz. bottle? TIA! Heidi the Hippie In Indianapolis...Home of the Colts and Pacers! " Open your eyes look within. Are you satisfied with the life you are living? " Bob Marley, PEACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 >I am about to try to make lotions and creams again and would like everyones opinion on Grapefruit seed extract, vitamin E >and Germaben II. Hi All, I do use Vitamin E but I also use Potassium Sorbate and Gum Benzoin. I feel comfortable with them. I have heard gum benzoin may cause some irritation, but I use all my creams and lotions on myself and since I have very sensitive skin and have not been bothered by it (plus no one I have given them to has had a problem) I think they are probably ok. If someone has proof of a better combination please, please let me know!! Blessings, Ozark Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 << I, too, would be interested in this information. & nbsp; Especially preservatives for hand cremes and body butters. Thanks- >> >Could you send me info too. Thanks! I was just wondering about this too, and would also be grateful for this info. Celeste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 I use Gemaben II and have no trouble with it. I have never seen a fuzzy growing or a rancid smell even with some lotions that i had made this past spring. Shaye The Soap Shack http://www.mysoapshack.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 1999 Report Share Posted December 29, 1999 I use low alpha tocepherols at 2% of final product volume as an antioxidant, to prevent oil rancidity. (They are a form of Vitamin E). I won't use benzoin in any application which comes in contact with the skin, because it is such a potent sensitizer. I do, however, use it in powdered form to anchor the scent in closet sachets and potpourri. - Ela (000)___(000) Ela Heyn / @ @ \ ferret@... | | ======@====== http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/5483 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2000 Report Share Posted March 3, 2000 Hey guys, Do you have to add a preservative to M & P soap if you add only oils to the base? I thought preservatives were only needed in items that contained water (ie lotions, body mists, that sort of thing). If I am wrong, please let me know. thanks in advance, lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2000 Report Share Posted March 4, 2000 Hello Lynn, You are correct in your assumption that unless a finished product contains water, there is no need to add an anti-bacterial/anti-fungal (preservative). Fixed oils are prone to rancidity through oxidation. To prevent this, we recommend the use of an anti-oxidant, such as Vit E., which has an added benefit to the skin, or ROE, which is far more stable than Vit E., and all natural as well. Cheers, Trina Wallace -- Quality Doesn't Have to Cost a Fortune! Snowdrift Farm Handcrafter's Supply http://www.snowdriftfarm.com Hey guys, Do you have to add a preservative to M & P soap if you add only oils to the base? I thought preservatives were only needed in items that contained water (ie lotions, body mists, that sort of thing). If I am wrong, please let me know. thanks in advance, lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2000 Report Share Posted March 6, 2000 Hi Judy, You only need a preservative (anti0-bacterial/anti-fungal) if water is present in the finished product. As CP soap, M & P soap, lotion bars,lip balm, bath salts, bath bombs, etc have NO water present in the finished product, there is no need for a preservative. When water is present, such as in a lotion or creme or bath gel, etc., then there is a need for a preservative. FMI on this subject, please refer to http://www.snowdriftfarm.com./askthechemist.html For fixed oils, use an anti-oxidant to prevent rancidity. This prevents oxygen from destroying your precious carrier oils. Cheers, Trina Wallace -- Quality Doesn't Have to Cost a Fortune! Snowdrift Farm Handcrafter's Supply http://www.snowdriftfarm.com Judy asked: From: " judyann " <JudyAnn@...> Subject: Preservatives Okay. I am seriously corn-fused. Lotion bars are like lotion, but they do not contain water. What about preservatives for lotion bars - not needed because no water? What does the FDA say about lotion bars? I tried looking this up myself, but I am seriously search-challenged. How about bath salts? Like lotion? No water, so preservatives not necessary? If I add almond or jojoba oil, do I need an antioxidant? Maybe I'm in the wrong hobby (ai, ai, ai), or should have taken up chemistry - might be easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2000 Report Share Posted March 16, 2000 I am enclosing an email that I got on another list (last Year) from a cosmetic chemist, talking about preservatives. For those of you that have belonged to this list for any length of time, you will recognize the author as Ken Klein. None of the 4 chemists on that list recognize Aubrey's views on preservation as valid. ---------------- There has been a great deal written on this topic in the last few weeks. And we are lucky to have one of the world's experts on preservation on this list (Dave, certainly not me). I will spend the next few minutes giving some of my thoughts on the subject. My apologies to those of you on this list who have heard this ad nauseum. If it has water it must be preserved! It really is that simple. There are several issues to address when talking about preservation: 1. Making a product that is free from bacterial contamination is obviously very important. Usually this is not possible. There have been some cases where the manufacturer manufactures a product under aseptic conditions and uses water that is absolutely free from bacteria. Many of the pharmaceutical companies do this. I know that J & J manufacturers KY Jelly this way. Biersdorf has manufactured Nivea (a water-in-oil emulsion) without preservative for many years but have recently started to put preservative in it. W/O emulsions are less prone to bacterial attack and they used very clean conditions and specialized manufacturing techniques that none of us could ever hope to duplicate. They, it is rumored still used some EO's that had some limited preservative activity and the product was packaged in a was not to allow for consumer contamination. While I'm sure that everybody on this list endeavors to make their products under the cleanest conditions possible and use the best ingredients (I'm not sure what the word best really means) possible...how really free from microbes is your water. I absolutely guarantee it is not free from microbial entities! Our gut is able to cope with most of these without problem. But combine them with other materials and place them in a jar and leave the jar in a nice warm dark place and the bacteria just dance with joy and multiply. And jus imagine what happens when the consumer sticks their fingers into the jar to get some of your product. Oh...I made a mistake and took too much cream, let me put some back into the jar! Buggies, buggies, buggies! Also keep in mind that just because your cream looks good and doesn't seem to be turning color or becoming off odor or changing in any way doesn't mean there isn't a real safety problem regarding microbial content. 2. Bacterial contamination can come from many sources water is one of them (probably the most important one) but not the only one. While many of you may not like to hear this, in my experience (34 years of formulating toiletries products), it is most often the materials that are described as natural that are the source of microbiological problems. Proteins, gums (thickeners), extracts, herbals are among the worst culprits. I'm certainly not saying they shouldn't be used...only saying be aware of the potential for problems. 3. There has been much said about the antimicrobial activity of ROE and GSE, myrrh, etc. I won't comment on the validity of what was said, since I can't speak from personal experience, but I can say that while they may have some activity in this area, I don't believe they can ADEQUATELY preserve a system. Adequately is the key word. If used in a product that does not contain any microbes (not really possible for most of us) and packaged in a container that does not allow for the consumer to reinnoculate the product and the product doesn't contain anything that might inactivate the natural preservative, then maybe they would work. It sounds like a maybes and ifs here. 4. Also understand the difference between the bacteriostatic and bacteriocidal. Bacteriostatic: the product is free from microbes and the preservative will keep it that way. Bacteriocidal: The product may have started out clean but somehow bugs have been introduced and the preservative is able to kill these intruders. A good preservative will perform both of these functions...and be able to do so for the entire lifetime of the product, which may have multiple recontaminations. This is not an easy assignment for the most potent of " chemical " preservatives under the best of conditions. 5. Just because some (natural) materials have antimicrobial activity in some tests or systems, in no way indicates their functionality in your product. 5A. There are many many things that can inhibit the function of a preservative: Metal ions, ethoxylated emulsifiers (emulsifying wax, polysorbate 20, to name just two), high temperature, extremes in pH, high levels of gums (xanthan, cellulose, etc.), high levels of protein, etc. A final word from this soapbox chemist: I am sure that all of the folks on this list want to make and sell the best and safest product possible. Many of you feel that using natural materials is the best way to accomplish this. I have no disagreement with this at all! But remember the medical edict told to all medical students: " first, do no harm " With respect to making and selling cosmetics and toiletries products this is particularly appropriate. Respectfully written.... Ken Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... http://houseofscents.safeshopper.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2000 Report Share Posted March 16, 2000 Pat, thanks for the good info. but, then what kind of preservatives are good to use? What are the names? Is there a realistic way for a home-based business to make a safe lotion? Help please! I think there are a lot of people on this list that would really like the scoop on making a good safe lotion, soooo anyone out there with any info. at all please fill us in. How do you folks sell your lotions safely? Thanks so much, Cyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2000 Report Share Posted March 16, 2000 Thanks to all that answered my question about Preservatives. Appreciate the combined knowledge we have going here. ~ __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 I have been working with a handcream recipe for the past 3 years and feel it is ready for a larger market,but to do this it will need to be properly preserved to extend the shelf life. SO I'm looking for a supplier of such a preservative that is based in Canada. Would anyone on this list that is so engaged please contact me privately so we can do some business?Thank You, Lynn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Lynn Hasson,Lanes End Farm & Fiber, borough,On,Can K9H 1M5 Willow Furniture, Mohair,Wool,Handspun Socks, Natural Hemp Skincare Products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 In a message dated 9/10/00 9:09:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sunsoap@... writes: << How are your batch records maintained. 2]Do you retain a container of product out of each batch 3] How do you determine the shelf life of your products? 4}] What do your benchmark studies indicated in both a freezing and heated environment, have you documented them.. 5] have you found a way to insure the integrity of your products when placed in these extreme environments....is the viscosity consistent at months 1 and three? 6] have you had your product at a minimum for contamination, micro-organisms i.e., seudemonis (pardon spelling) staph germs...and many others. When you see a problem it is in epidemic proportions. 7] For those of you using well waters or high chemical waters in your manufacture, what have you done to insure the bacteria in it is neutralized. When was the last time your well was checked for coliform bacteria....certain levels of coliform (a form of e-coli) a permissible in drinking water but consider what you just added to your product.... >> Hi Pam, Thanks for the words of wisdom and food for thought! How does the FDA look upon small businesses like myself that are just starting out and " manufactor " their products in their kitchen. I keep clean conditions and use practices that are probably comparable to or maybe two steps above canning procedures---but I don't have an autoclave for my utensils--I just boil them---I have cabinets dedicated to business products and supplies----but I certainly don't have a lab-type setting---would that be a big no-no? In time, I will probably expand to another facility, but for now it is the kitchen--is this a big problem? Also, as far as contamination of products---I am convinced that preservatives are a necessity and use them at the recommended percentage and trust that microbes are under control. Do you recommend that we go the next step and have each batch tested at a lab to make sure? For the tiny business, this is expensive, but I am thinking that if any liability issue ever came up it would be good insurance. Lots of things to think about and any thoughts are appreciated. Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 > Hi Pam, > Thanks for the words of wisdom and food for thought! How does the FDA look > upon small businesses like myself that are just starting out and " manufactor " > their products in their kitchen. I keep clean conditions and use practices > that are probably comparable to or maybe two steps above canning > procedures---but I don't have an autoclave for my utensils--I just boil > them---I have cabinets dedicated to business products and supplies----but I > certainly don't have a lab-type setting---would that be a big no-no? In > time, I will probably expand to another facility, but for now it is the > kitchen--is this a big problem? Also, as far as contamination of > products---I am convinced that preservatives are a necessity and use them at > the recommended percentage and trust that microbes are under control. Do you > recommend that we go the next step and have each batch tested at a lab to > make sure? For the tiny business, this is expensive, but I am thinking that > if any liability issue ever came up it would be good insurance. Lots of > things to think about and any thoughts are appreciated. > Angie Whoever is able to answer this, please do not just respond privately. I'd be very interested to know as well. I'm just starting out and building my inventory before I begin selling at craft shows and small gift shops. For me, it's just a hobby as I work full time. I operate in my kitchen as well. I have a separate space for my utensils and ingredients, but everything else is just so small time, I couldn't afford to get each batch tested. At least not yet. Mainly I'm making soap, but I also wanted to sell lotions, and other bath goodies. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2000 Report Share Posted October 17, 2000 Hiya....salt has been used as a preservative for years....I dont add anything to mine and never had a problem.....vitamin E sounds like a skin bonus to me will add that next time China <snip> > I'm making bath scrubs and add vitamin E oil to my mixture. I know that is > a natural preservative. Should I be adding something else to this? -- ----<--<@ ----<--<@ The Soapery Handcrafted Castile Soaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2000 Report Share Posted October 17, 2000 At 10:26 AM 10/17/00 -0400, you wrote: >Hiya....salt has been used as a preservative for years....I dont add anything >to mine and never had a problem.....vitamin E sounds like a skin bonus to me >will add that next time China > ><snip> > > > I'm making bath scrubs and add vitamin E oil to my mixture. I know that is > > a natural preservative. Should I be adding something else to this? > >-- >----<--<@ ----<--<@ >The Soapery >Handcrafted Castile Soaps Salt was used to help dehydrate meats and things that are dried- it's the moisture that causes rotting/bacteria problems, and people using a bath scrub will put their wet paws into it, introducing more moisture and growing ickies - I believe that's the scientific term Vitamin e isn't a preservative, it's an antioxidant. It doesn't inhibit bacteria, just slows the oils in a salt-glow product from going rancid. Not stop it totally mind you, just slow it down. A preservative would still be required, that's why I don't do these yet (I don't have one on hand). As much as some love to think GSE and ROE and vitamin E are all you need- I can tell you firsthand- it's not. I've seen products turn hideous. I have a lotion I loved, and was going to reverse-engineer turn so ugly on me that I keep it as a " Gee, wonder how bad it will get " kind of experiment. It grows more evil daily. Yuck I would hate to have a customer go to pump lotion a few months from now, and get a green furry glob, and swamp water for their trouble. Eyyew. The results of not using one is that the salt glow will begin to go moldy after one use. I'm more grossed out by not using a preservation system of some kind and I'm a natural-bath-stuff kinda gal. hth Tamara Zyganiuk www.spellboundbotanicals.com July 1 Issue of " The Spellbinder " is Online NOW Coming soon: " Spellbound Botanicals " E-store Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 >From: China <chinachi@...> >Hiya....salt has been used as a preservative for years....I dont add >anything >to mine and never had a problem.....vitamin E sounds like a skin bonus to >me >will add that next time China How do you know that you've never had a problem? Your salt scrub can look and smell fine and your product could be grossly contaminated. The Vitamin E is a good antioxidant, It is not a preservative. I assume you salt scrub is formulated without water, so in theory, you should not need a preservative. But in reality, it's reasonable to expect that the consumer will intoduce a small amount of water and a number of different microorganisms into your product when he or she is using the salt scrub at home. Therefore, it would be prudent to add a preservative system to your salt scrub. Lucy _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 In a message dated 10/18/00 7:59:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, angel_noir@... writes: << Therefore, it would be prudent to add a preservative system to your salt scrub. >> ok.. my germaben II says to not use it in any mixture over 30% oil. The salt glow/salt scrub recipes I've seen are all oil and salt.. no water. Which preservative would be possible, if not germaben II?? Thanks in advance, Lynne in Vermont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 >From: Rishie@... >In a message dated 10/18/00 7:59:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >angel_noir@... writes: > ><< Therefore, it would be prudent to add a preservative system to your salt > scrub. > >> > >ok.. my germaben II says to not use it in any mixture over 30% oil. The >salt >glow/salt scrub recipes I've seen are all oil and salt.. no water. Which >preservative would be possible, if not germaben II?? > Hello Lynne in Vermont! I guess the trees have begun to loose their beautiful colors and it must be raking time. The rushing sounds of the leaves, the crystal clear, blue skies of Autumn and the beautiful collage of color on the drive way are just some of my vision of a Fall day in Vermont. But enough of memories; on to the more mundane; the matter at hand. The salt scrubs we are discussing, as I have assumed, are anhydrous when they are manufactured. Anhydrous means, " free of water " . So the preservative Germaben II must be oil soluble if its going to be of any help. But we know that Germaben II is really a mixture of olidinyl Urea, Methylparaben and Propylparaben dissolve in Propylene Glycol. Going to the ISP/Sutton website http://www.ispcorp.com/products/hairskin/preserve/pres1.html we see that olidinyl Urea has poor solubility in oils. So Germall II would not be the best preservative choice and, I have to believe that, the Propylene Glycol and scrubbing oil would make a mess. What we need are some oil soluble preservatives. I would consider using a blend of Isopropylparaben, Isobutylparaben and Butylparaben. The makers of Germall II also sell " LiquaPar Oil " . The ISP/Sutton website states that " LiquaPar Oil is an active blend of parabens, useful in a wide range of cosmetic formulations including anhydrous systems. LiquaPar Oil effectively preserves most products when used at concentrations of 0.3-0.6%. " Lucy _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 >From: " Amy " <amyriggs@...> >It seems to me, that you would have much more salts than oils. I think in >total weight, you would have less than 30% oils. I would think that the amount of oil used in a salt scub on the partical size of your salt crystals. I would guess that you would have at least 55% to 60% oil. But thats a guess based on some old experiements. Lucy _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2000 Report Share Posted October 18, 2000 It seems to me, that you would have much more salts than oils. I think in total weight, you would have less than 30% oils. Amy Re: preservatives In a message dated 10/18/00 7:59:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, angel_noir@... writes: << Therefore, it would be prudent to add a preservative system to your salt scrub. >> ok.. my germaben II says to not use it in any mixture over 30% oil. The salt glow/salt scrub recipes I've seen are all oil and salt.. no water. Which preservative would be possible, if not germaben II?? Thanks in advance, Lynne in Vermont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2000 Report Share Posted October 30, 2000 At 11:30 PM 10/30/00 +0000, you wrote: >Now, my question is am I doing something wrong? Am I >supposed to be adding preservatives to me soap. and if so, what would a good >preservative be. nothing at all.... pure soap needs no preservatives. if you superfat heavily you might think about adding an antioxident to your oils, a lot of experienced soapers do... but preservative? nope! Your source for superb Essential Oils, Aromatherapy Accessories, Information, Books and more! Visit us at: <http://www.naturesgift.com> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2000 Report Share Posted November 25, 2000 > From: intothemistic@... > could someone please explain the difference between germall ,germall > plus, germall II, germaben and germaben II and methylparaben how they > work and how effective they are as preservatives i would really > appreciate the info dolores Dolores, there is no preservative currently named germall. There is a Germall 115 that is used in liquid and powder type formulations. Then there is Germall ll that is used in shampoos and hair conditioners. Sutton's newest preservative is Germall Plus, used in creams, lotions, etc. There is no Germaben. There is Gemaben ll and Germaben llE. The latter is specifically made for creams and lotions. All of the above are manufactured by Sutton and I believe the methylparabens are made by several companies. My current interest is in creams and lotions, so Germall Plus works for my needs. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... http://houseofscents.safeshopper.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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