(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

That's pretty good--a name for your ICD. Never thought of that! Altho I do

refer to it as my " Zapper. " I've been sore throat and coughing this week,

too, and it is tough when you have heart problems. Mostly it leaves me very

tired. Did you have a flu shot? Hope you feel better! LeeRoush@...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

TChambors@... wrote:

>

> Hello all,

> I've been reading all your letters but I have been negligent about writing

> because I have been so busy. Bio, chem, and neuroscience keeps doesn't leave

> you with much free time. I havd a few questions.

> 1) What did everyone name their ICD? Mine is Ffloyd Ralph Chambors III.

> Ralph because that's the name of the surgeon who gives them to me, Ffloyd

> because I thought it was a good ICD name, the 3rd because he is the third ICD

> I've had, and Chambors because that is my last name.

> 2) Cordarone is the hot topic in medicine, but I take propranolol, 640mg a

> day. Does anyone else take propranolol and what side effects have you

> noticed?

> 3) I have had the flu for the past week and I have a a fever the entire time.

> My heart doesn't like fevers. What do all of your hearts do when you get

> fevers?

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

I've had the flu shot but this strain doesn't care whether you've had it or

not. The entire town is sick and the fever lasts for about a week. I get

extraordinarily tired when I'm sick (and I've had colds that have caused me to

get zapped before). My doctor just tells me not to spike a fever and all of

the normal stuff doctors tell you to do when you get sick.

I guess naming the ICD is a kid thing. All the kids I know have automatically

named theirs without ever hearing the idea from anybody. I think it's a good

idea though. They even programmed his name in there so anyone who

interrogated him would know what to call him.

Hope everyone else feels better too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

,

There was a special on one of the shows like 20/20 about the LVAD. It was

pretty informative, and even showed the operation implanting the device.

The device is in testing in Europe. I think they said 6 have been

implanted, and three of the people are still with us. They do use very sick

people for those type of tests. It is called, and this may be misspelled,

the Debakey V.A.D, after the man who invented it. I do believe that the

battery pack still had to be worn outside the body on a belt pack sort of

deal. It sure was a far cry from the devices that I have seen people

pushing around. I am sure when information is available you can find it at

a web site called Jon's place. If you have not been there you can link to

it from my web site at www.healthyheartmarket.com. He has a long address

that I can never remember.

An opinion on the electrode info problem. These companies have millions of

dollars tied up in the formulations of there products. I will ask my friend

who is in the business, but I believe that these formulas are proprietary

information. For a company to release their trade secrets could be very

detrimental to their business, as their competitors could use that

information to their advantage. For all they know you could be a spy

(although you don't look like one) for another company. Also, if you do

discover a great improvement to their product they would not own that

information.

I really enjoy your posts. For a young person you have a very mature

outlook, and as a patient you seem to have a great attitude.

Pete E

(no subject)

Duffey,

For several weeks now I have been trying to get a hold of the lists of

chemicals in the different EKG electrode gels and glues. I have emailed

several companies and some say they will send me information but never do

and

some never answer the email. I am being blown off. I want the information

because I want to try to isolate the chemicals that are particularly harsh

on

the skin and replace them with gentler chemicals. This is valid research

and

I'm ready to do it and I've even found a professor who is interested in

working with me. But none of the manufacturing companies are willing to

help

a chemistry student. Perhaps you have a better idea of how to go about

this.

I was also wondering if you had heard any information about a fully

implantable LV assist device. One of my professors asked me about it

because

he knew I was into cardiology but it was news to me. I did, however, tell

him

that I know someone who might be more up to date on this stuff. I also

showed

him how to get to the Zapper page and he thought it was pretty neat.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internet FileZone: Always FREE!

Instantly store & access your valuable PC files on the net,

from any Web browser.

SIGN UP NOW - http://offers./click/235/0

[Guest guest]

TK,

If I were you, I'd start out in the Toiletries Library (or with a good

" make your own toiletries " book) and pick out some simple recipes that you

like, with not very expensive ingredients. Try a few, test them on

friends and relatives, and make notes on shelf life and any improvements

that you can make to them.

Once you have some simple, time proven recipes, then you can start selling

them to friends and family, maybe put them on consignment in a few stores,

or even put up a Web page and sell them from there! :->

- Ela

(000)___(000) Ela Heyn

/ @ @ \ ferret@...

| |

======@====== http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/5483

[Guest guest]

>Do you think people get more pissy and rude about being moved to a new list

>or about getting dropped during a move?

>Grace

Hi Grace (and we do need more Grace)

I think that people who are prone to be that way will be that way no matter

what happens.

Blame it on the great big full moon with will be at its largest point in

about 13 1/2 hours from the point from which this post leaves my hands...

the rudeness will fade away, people will read and start figuring it out for

themselves...in the meantime...

delete, delete, and let sleep.

Joanie

[Guest guest]

We too are waiting for the technology, including belt/disc & headset unit. This composing of the chart note twice is time expensive and tedious.

S.

(no subject)Does anyone use a voice recognition software for daily SOAP notes and/or reports that they really like? Any ideas or comments appreciatedThanks Slater------------------------------------------------------------------------If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination " Fen-Phen, " visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice packageexplaining your rights under the class settlement.1/833/1/_/141981/_/951845005/-- Talk to your group with your own voice!-- VoiceChatPage?listName= & m=1

[Guest guest]

My "voice recognition system" is named Ann. She's a whizz and beats the sox off any VR software currently available...but I still have to make notes and then dictate. Ain't practice fun?

CAS

(no subject)Does anyone use a voice recognition software for daily SOAP notes and/or reports that they really like? Any ideas or comments appreciatedThanks Slater------------------------------------------------------------------------If you took Podimin, Redux®, or the combination "Fen-Phen,"visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice packageexplaining your rights under the class settlement.1/833/1/_/141981/_/951845005/-- Talk to your group with your own voice!-- VoiceChatPage?listName= & m=1

eGroups.com Home: www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Dear collegues,

The technology is already here, I've coupled the Saboe Chart Note System C 1995 with a, and this is the important part, "medical grade" voice recognition software, combined with a 2.5 gig hz "wireless" head set. Consequently you can use your inclinometer or any other instrument, dicatate, and have it transcribed all at the same time and hands free interested???

Vern Saboe, D.C.

(no subject)Does anyone use a voice recognition software for daily SOAP notes and/or reports that they really like? Any ideas or comments appreciatedThanks Slater------------------------------------------------------------------------If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination "Fen-Phen,"visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice packageexplaining your rights under the class settlement.1/833/1/_/141981/_/951845005/-- Talk to your group with your own voice!-- VoiceChatPage?listName= & m=1

eGroups.com Home: www. - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Where/ Who are you working for Owen?

Stuart

> [] (no subject)

>

> From: OKdonnelly@...

>

> Hi everybody,

> A quick note to introduce myself. I'm an RN, now working in Occupational

> Health and Safety in the UK. Before that I'd worked as a medic along various

> pipelines in Saudi and in some of the CIS countries. I'm not qualified to the

> level of you Medics and look foreward to some interesting postings.

>

> Owen Donnelly

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR!

> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as

> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.

> Apply NOW!

> 1/2121/4/_/688696/_/954111852/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Stuart write me direct at OKdonnelly@...

That way we won't clog up the rest of the board, unless you/everyone would be

interested - I love talking about myself..........! :-)

Regards, OwenD

[Guest guest]

Received: from mailsorter-101-6.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.40) by

storefull-225.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 20 Apr 2000

08:00:39 -0700 (PDT)

Return-Path: <Popcom65@...>

Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by

mailsorter-101-6.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)

with ESMTP id JAA06202 for <ITSJB@...>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000

09:00:38 -0700 (PDT)

From: Popcom65@...

Received: from Popcom65@... by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id

2.7d.3ce0903 (4462); Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:00:18 -0400 (EDT)

Message-ID: <7d.3ce0903.26308391@...>

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:00:17 EDT

Subject: (no subject)

ITSJB@..., RTown97985@..., rkbender@..., PLCBOWL@...,

RVngmom@..., Blankgirl0@..., ALETALITT@...,

JLCHEROKEL@..., Hdmess@..., CNCHAG@..., Dojeno@...,

lschwerd@..., victoria.m.hale@..., Wrench250@...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " US-ASCII "

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105

[unable to display image]

Q: Should I have a baby after 35?

A: No, 35 children is enough.

Q: I'm two months pregnant now. When will my baby move?

A: With any luck, right after he finishes college.

Q: How will I know if my vomiting is morning sickness or the flu?

A: If it's the flu, you'll get better.

Q: Since I became pregnant, my breasts, rear end, and even my feet have

grown. Is there anything that gets smaller during pregnancy?

A: Yes, your bladder.

Q: What is the most common pregnancy craving?

A: For men to be the ones who get pregnant.

Q: What is the most reliable method to determine a baby's sex?

A: Ask the kid.

Q: The more pregnant I get, the more often strangers smile at me. Why?

A: 'Cause you're fatter than they are.

Q: My wife is five months pregnant and so moody that sometimes she's

borderline irrational.

A: So what's your question?

Q: What's the difference between a nine-month pregnant woman and a model?

A: Nothing, if the pregnant woman's husband knows what's good for him.

Q: How long is the average woman in labor?

A: Whatever she says divided by two.

Q: My childbirth instructor says it's not pain I'll feel during labor, but

pressure. Is she right?

A: Yes, in the same way that a tornado might be called an air current.

Q: When is the best time to get an epidural?

A: Right after you find out you're pregnant.

Q: Is there any reason I have to be in the delivery room while my wife is in

labor?

A: Not unless the word " alimony " means anything to you.

Q: Is there anything I should avoid while recovering from childbirth?

A: Yes, pregnancy.

Q: Does pregnancy cause hemorrhoids?

A: Pregnancy causes anything you want to blame it for.

Q: Where is the best place to store breast milk?

A: In your breasts.

Q: Is there a safe alternative to breast pumps?

A: Yes, baby lips.

Q: What does it mean when a baby is born with teeth?

A: It means that the baby's mother may want to rethink her plans to nurse.

Q: What are the terrible twos?

A: Your breasts, after baby stops nursing cold turkey.

Q: What is the best time to wean the baby from nursing?

A: When you see teeth marks.

Q: Our baby was born last week. When will my wife begin to feel and act

normal again?

A: When the kids are in college.

>>

[Guest guest]

thought this was funny. hope you all like it.

tina2

Received: from mailsorter-101-8.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.42) by

storefull-222.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sat, 27 May 2000

04:06:02 -0700 (PDT)

Return-Path: <Popcom65@...>

Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com (imo-r20.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.162]) by

mailsorter-101-8.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2)

with ESMTP id EAA02246 for <ITSJB@...>; Sat, 27 May 2000

04:06:02 -0700 (PDT)

From: Popcom65@...

Received: from Popcom65@... by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.9.) id

2.78.5cf5e9a (3862); Sat, 27 May 2000 07:05:56 -0400 (EDT)

Message-ID: <78.5cf5e9a.26610614@...>

Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 07:05:56 EDT

Subject: Fwd: (no subject)

ITSJB@..., rkbender@..., Blankgirl0@..., WekKmk@...,

ALETALITT@..., Hdmess@..., Dojeno@..., Wrench250@...,

victoria.m.hale@...

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary= " part1_78.5cf5e9a.26610614_boundary "

X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105

--part1_78.5cf5e9a.26610614_boundary

Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " US-ASCII "

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--part1_78.5cf5e9a.26610614_boundary

Content-Type: message/rfc822

Content-Disposition: inline

Return-path: <CNCHAG@...>

From: CNCHAG@...

Full-name: CN CHAG

Message-ID: <ac.59c717f.266066a2@...>

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:45:38 EDT

Subject: (no subject)

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " US-ASCII "

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

undisclosed-recipients:;

X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105

>

>

> 1. My wife and I have the secret to making a marriage last. Two times a

> week we go to a nice restaurant for a little wine, good food, and

> companionship. She goes Tuesdays; I go Fridays.

>

> 2. We also sleep in separate beds. Hers is in Florida and mine is in New

> York.

>

> 3. I take my wife everywhere, but she keeps finding her way back.

>

> 4. I asked my wife, " Where do you want to go for our anniversary? "

> " Somewhere I haven't been in a long time! " she replied. So I said, " How

> about the kitchenn? "

>

> 5. We always hold hands. If I let go, she shops.

>

> 6. She has an electric blender, an electric toaster, and an electric bread

> maker. Then she said, " There are too many gadgets and no place to sit

> down! "

> So I bought her an electric chair.

>

> 7. My wife told me the car wasn't running well and that there was water in

> the carburetor. I asked where the car was, and she replied, " In the lake. "

>

> 8. My wife is on a new diet ~ coconuts and bananas. She hasn't lost weight

> but, BOY, can she climb a tree now!

>

> 9. She got a mudpack and looked great for two days. Then the mud fell off.

>

> 10. She ran after the garbage truck yelling, " Am I too late for the

> garbage? "

> The driver said, " No, jump in! "

>

--part1_78.5cf5e9a.26610614_boundary--

[Guest guest]

I am still laughing at this one. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Tina1

>From: twest5601@...

>Reply-egroups

>egroups

>Subject: Fwd: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:11:32 EDT

>

>thought this was funny. hope you all like it.

>tina2

><< message5.txt >>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

<< 20 FUN THINGS TO DO IN AN OFFICE

1. Remove the jug from the water cooler and drink from it periodically,

bragging that you 'got the last one.'

2. Photocopy things around the office, such as lamps, potted plants,

staplers, etc. If someone asks about it, just say 'You never can be too

careful.'

3. Turn your radio up full blast and sing along loudly with the song. Invite

others to join you.

4. Pretend to be hypnotized by someone's screen saver.

5. Go into someone's office, grab a book from their shelves, and begin

reading it aloud to them. If they interrupt, give them an evil look.

6. Give a secretary a copy of Hamlet and ask them to proofread it.

7. Use a hole punch to punch holes in all your outgoing mail. Explain that

the holes 'make it more aerodynamic'.

8. Bring a lawnmower into the office and pretend to mow the carpet.

9. Bring a TV remote control to the office and try to 'change the channel'

on people's computers. When it doesn't work, mumble something about 'cheap

Japanese crap.'

10. Pull a chair up to your window and pretend to be working at a

drive-through.

11. Stand at the washroom door carrying a baseball bat and ask everyone in a

low voice if they washed their hands.

12. Gnaw on your mouse, make cat noises, and lick your hands from time to

time.

13. Walk into people's offices, taking a careful look around. Talk into your

shirt, saying 'No sign of him yet, Chief.'

14. When the phone rings, answer by saying 'KBBL, you're on the air.'

15. Proudly show everyone your calculator and hand out cigars. Tell them

your computer just had a baby.

16. Paint your face blue and start searching around in people's desk

drawers. Ask them if they've seen your pills.

17. Create a document that is entirely black and print hundreds of copies.

Use the printouts as wallpaper for your office.

18. Build a fire pit out of cinder blocks in the staff room. Place a stack

of firewood in the corner, along with matches, lighter fluid, hot dogs, and

marshmallows.

19. Place a row of liquor bottles on your desk, and a sign on your door

which reads 'NO COVER!' Announce loudly that it's happy hour.

20. Get in the elevator and pretend to hold the door open for invisible

people.

>>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/5/00 3:20:13 AM Central Daylight Time, psstorms@...

writes:

<< 15. Proudly show everyone your calculator and hand out cigars. Tell them

your computer just had a baby. >>

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! Too funny!!!!

^,,^

>:<

**** @lison

[Guest guest]

>From: " kathy caughlin " <caughlink@...>

>adamsfam@..., Hivswan@..., SLConnell@...,

>GOLDMANRAY@..., dlieuallen@..., amybrown@...,

>arul87@..., caughlindrc@..., cuppsdrm@...,

>dcs@..., kokoro@..., tcaughlin@..., fruityme@...,

>chyeanne@..., papatony@..., mklevy@...,

>sbaggs@..., Windmo@...

>Subject: Fwd: Fw: (no subject)

>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:56:06 GMT

>

>

>

>

>>From: " JEANNE MARKERT " <GMAJEANNE@...>

>> " Constance Adkins " <cadkins4@...>

>>Subject: Fw: (no subject)

>>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:57:00 -0700

>>

>>

>>Jeanne

>> (no subject)

>>

>>

>> > >>--------------------

>> > >>THIS WAS WORTH PASSING ON - PLEASE REMEMBER IT.

>> > >>

>> > >>Let's say it's 6:15 p.m. and you're driving home (alone of

>> > >>course), after an unusually hard day on the job. You're really

>> > >>tired, upset and frustrated. Suddenly you start experiencing

>> > >>severe pain in your chest that starts to radiate out into your arm

>> > >>and up into your jaw. You are only about five miles from the

>> > >>hospital nearest your home, unfortunately you don't know if

>> > >>you'll be able to make it that far. What can you do? You've been

>> > >>trained in CPR but the guy that taught the course neglected to

>> > >>tell you how to perform it on yourself.

>> > >>

>> > >>HOW TO SURVIVE A HEART ATTACK WHEN ALONE

>> > >>

>> > >>Since many people are alone when they suffer a heart attack,

>> > >>this article seemed in order.) Without help, the person whose

>> > >>heart stops beating properly and who begins to feel faint, has

>> > >>only about 10 seconds left before losing consciousness.

>> > >>

>> > >>

>> > >>However, these victims can help themselves by coughing

>> > >>repeatedly and very vigorously. A deep breath should be taken

>> > >>before each cough, and the cough must be deep and

>> > >>prolonged, as when producing sputum from deep inside the

>> > >>chest. A breath and a cough must be repeated about every two

>> > >>seconds without let up until help arrives, or until the heart is to

>>be

>> > >>beating normally again.

>> > >>

>> > >>Deep breaths get oxygen into the lungs and coughing

>> > >>movements squeeze the heart and keep the blood circulating.

>> > >>The squeezing pressure on the heart also helps it regain

>> > >>normal rhythm. In this way, heart attack victims can get to a

>> > >>hospital.

>> > >>

>> > >>Tell as many other people as possible about this, it could save

>> > >>their Lives!

>> > >>

>> > >>>From Health Cares, Rochester General Hospital via Chapter

>> > >>240's newsletter AND THE BEAT GOES ON ... (reprint from The

>> > >>Mended Hearts, Inc. publication, Heart Response)

>> > >>

>> > >>BE A FRIEND AND PLEASE SEND THIS ARTICLE TO AS

>> > >>MANY FRIENDS AND FAMILY AS POSSIBLE.

>> > >>

>> >

>> >>________________________________________________________________________

>> >

>>

>

_________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at

http://profiles.msn.com.

[Guest guest]

PLEASE EXPLAIN

One day God and Adam were walking in the garden. God told Adam it was

time to populate the earth.

He told Adam, " Adam, you can start by kissing Eve. Adam replied " God,

what is a kiss? "

God told Adam and Adam went and took Eve behind the bush and kissed her.

A little while later, Adam came back out with a big smile and said " Wow

Lord! That was great!! What next? "

God said, " Adam, I now want you to caress Eve. " Adam says, " Lord what

is a caress? " God explained it to Adam and he again took her behind the

bush.

A little while later, he came out and said " Lord that was even better

than a kiss! What next. " God said, " Here is what gets the deed done.

I now want you to take Eve and make love to her. "

Adam said " Lord, what is to make love? " God explained and Adam took Eve

behind the bush and a few seconds later came out and said " Lord, what

is a headache? "

[Guest guest]

Lesa:

I'm sorry that things aren't going well for you. I'll keep my fingers

crossed that your blood work comes back ok. I know a lot of people on

Lipitor, and they seem to tolerate it well. If it will lower the

cholesterol, it is worth the try.

Don't worry about writing often, I hardly write.....but I am always here.

I guess I should try to be more active, because everyone here is

wonderful.

Good Luck, and you are in our thoughts, and prayers.

Big Huggs

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

Hi " ebe46 " ,

I am unfortunately too familiar w/ what you're describing & share your

frustrations--like I'm sure many other friends in this group do.

Was the ablation you had yrs. ago called a success? Even if it was, the

problem can sometimes, not all the time recur.

Your BP is probably low or fluctuates to low a lot. Did they do a current

echo to see how the hear is functioning?

I had been very dizzy on and off since last spring & you name it-I was sent

for it (test). Still felt this way. Then around the Holidays till I persued

things a little more, I was almost fainting daily & driving privileges were

taken away.

My (then) reg. cardiologist last spring when I complained about dizziness

said " don't worry, it will go away " . I would always somehow catch myself all

the time before fainting.(The ears would ring & curtain started to come down)

then I would put my head down or lie down. But you are actually fainting.

This is a danger for a lot of reasons--especially driving.

On the event monitor what the low & high pulse reading & type of arrhythmia?

We're all here for you. Let us know how you're doing .

[Guest guest]

One day at a time. That's about all you can do. I have the same problems

with CHF throw in just to make it interesting. I have no chance of getting

a transplant, sO I'm just waiting. I've learned what makes my ICD shock

me so I try not to work that much. I'm sorry you've had this problem for

so long. Try to hang in there. Just be careful.

Tom Denny

Ebe46@... wrote:

Hello

Zappers: I was just curious. I have had trouble with my heart since I

was 16yr. old. At that

thime I developed myocarditis.I am middle age now and

have been fainting.My

cardiologist and neurologist are working as a team on

this problem.

They believe it is part

of the automotic system. I do have arrythymias, some

are very fast, others

are very slow. When bp gets too low I faint(tilt table

test). My heart jumps

around, and this is more frequent.

I also had an ablation

about 11 yrs. ago. which showed scar tissue. I'm

tired of all this. Medications

are not agreeing with me.

I'm sure the majority

have been thru all of this. My cardiologist talked to

me several times about

a pacemaker and ablation. I have worn those 30 day

monitors and abnormal

findings have occured.

My neurologist sent me

for a neuropsych test. As far as the psychology part

went the report put me

above average. The neuro part put me below average.

So at least I'm not concened

about the psycho part.

Now, I have several DR's

working on this

LOL, just what I wanted!!

Please forgive me for

rattling on. I really need some support with all this

"stuff". What do you

suggest.

Thank You,

ebe46@...

Please visit the Zapper homepage at

http://www.ZapLife.org

[Guest guest]

My feeling on clinical practice guidlines is sort of like this.: We are such a small state with such limited resources, and such small number of practitioners....that it really makes almost no sense that we pursue the creation of original guidelines.........lets leave that up to larger states and/or national organizations...then the chiros in this state can collectively (via the board) select one set of guidelines to'endorse' or 'recognize' and then adapt ( customize) those guidelines to fit our scope of practice and , licensing laws and go through a final 'endorsement' (non-binding) or some-such thing. The board should be focused on basic competancy and ethics right? and let's all remember GUIDELINESARE MEANT TO BE ONLY A ROUGH GUIDE, NOT A COOKBOOK THAT MUST BE ADHERED TO IN EACH AND EVERY CASE.

J. , DC

Springbrook Chiropractic & Natural Health Center

1015 N. Springbrook Rd.

Newberg, OR 97132

503-538-0618

"Chiropractic, At Its Best"

[Guest guest]

, I have personally worked on the " Patient Centered Evidenced Based Guidelines Nominal Panel " for some 3+ years now. The guides which are currently out there are significantly deficient and if we do not develop these guides others outside the profession will. For example vendors whom cater to the insurance industry are using software programs which allow data entry non-physicans to, with a push of a button, determine what is reasonable and necessary treatment/care and they will not disclose what scientific evidence is (if any) that the data which the software programs are based on is!! In other words what scientific evidence supports the data used by these software programs and there is a myriad of these programs out there all apprently using different data!!

All of us working on the Nominal Panel and Seed Statement Panels are volunteering our time so there is no cost to the board.

Vern Saboe

Re: (no subject)My feeling on clinical practice guidlines is sort of like this.: We are such a small state with such limited resources, and such small number of practitioners....that it really makes almost no sense that we pursue the creation of original guidelines.........lets leave that up to larger states and/or national organizations...then the chiros in this state can collectively (via the board) select one set of guidelines to'endorse' or 'recognize' and then adapt ( customize) those guidelines to fit our scope of practice and , licensing laws and go through a final 'endorsement' (non-binding) or some-such thing. The board should be focused on basic competancy and ethics right? and let's all remember GUIDELINESARE MEANT TO BE ONLY A ROUGH GUIDE, NOT A COOKBOOK THAT MUST BE ADHERED TO IN EACH AND EVERY CASE. J. , DC Springbrook Chiropractic & Natural Health Center 1015 N. Springbrook Rd. Newberg, OR 97132 503-538-0618

" Chiropractic, At Its Best "

[Guest guest]

Yes, Chuck I have used the " Chiropractic Exercise Handbook " for several

years, its published by Pub., Co. Everett WA 1-800-359-3719.

It is very professional looking with both a written description on how to

perform each exercise as well as a photo showing a women performing the

exercise. There is a place for the doctor to write any additonal notations

and two boxes to write the number of times they are to perform these and

another box telling them how many times each day to perform the exercises

you have marked. Shipping and handling etc., I think they cost me about

$1.50 and we sell them or bill the Ins. Co. $3.00 each and if you have one

of those really wonderful folks with no money you can simple Zerox the

appropriate.

If you give me your address I'll send you a copy of the booklet.

Vern Saboe

(no subject)

> Hi Docs,

> Does anyone have a source for good patient hand-out materials on PIR

> self-stretching techniques (a la Lewitt-Janda-Liebenson)? I'm tired of

> making my own.

> Chuck Simpson

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I have a great set of handouts for strengthening and stretching and

abdominal co-contraction, they are part of my class, Basics of Rehab, but I

also sell the set of handouts for $40.

they include over 100 pages, including organizing your exercise program, how

to test for various imbalances, and exercise handout forms.

Very few of them use PIR, post isometric relaxation, they are either

isometric stretches, like yoga, or micro-movement, like Feldenkrais, or

basic strengthening using gravity or therabands.

The devil is in the details, the key to effective exercise IS ALWAYS hands

on instruction. Most people get it wrong, are using the wrong muscles, etc.

They cannot alter their own neuromuscular patterns without some coaching,

either from you or a very well trained assistant. Handouts alone are not

adequate, in my opinion, and usually emphasize reps etc, rather than

emphasize the exact positioning that is necessary. This relates to the

whole Janda/Liebenson model, the way so many people have inhibition

(weakness) of some muscles, and hypertonicity, tightness of others. Chris

Contempo's presentation to the CAO was right on target with this, the

necessity of really training folks to do it right. We should either do it

correctly in our own offices, taking the necessary time, or find PTs who

will really do this. My experience is that very few PTs are really into

this, or take the time to do it correctly. Exercise instruction is an art,

it is an art we certainly have the training to master, but its not

automatic. (Here I am, back on my soapbox again)

Marc Heller

(no subject)

Hi Docs,

Does anyone have a source for good patient hand-out materials on PIR

self-stretching techniques (a la Lewitt-Janda-Liebenson)? I'm tired of

making my own.

Chuck Simpson