Guest guest Posted March 29, 2000 Report Share Posted March 29, 2000 In a message dated 3/29/2000 1:00:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, lauranra@... writes: << I seem to get pregnant at the mention of sex. I could tell you the > whole story but it may be more than some want to know. Let's just say I get > pregnant against the odds >> I I tend to get pregnant against the odds, too! I got pregnant with the triplets at 20 years old, while on the pill, 1 week before my period. And Bill was conceived a week before the other two. Based on studies after the boys were born, they found out I ovulate twice a month one week apart from each other! How weird am I !! When we decide to try for my daughter, we had to be careful to try and " miss " the first egg and " hit " the second one, so we wouldn't get multiplies again! So the don't call me the fertile one for nothing! mom of Bill (DS), and Alec age 5 and Hunter age 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2000 Report Share Posted March 29, 2000 > triplets at 20 years old, while on the pill, 1 week before my period. And > Bill was conceived a week before the other two. Based on studies after the > boys were born, they found out I ovulate twice a month one week apart from > each other! How weird am I !! When we decide to try for my daughter, we had > to be careful to try and " miss " the first egg and " hit " the second one, so we > wouldn't get multiplies again! : All I can say is WOW....I didn't even know that was possible!!! What made the Dr's decide to do a study on you?? , mom to twins Nicala & ,ds (3) and (1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2000 Report Share Posted March 29, 2000 I also didn't use anything to have our twins. April and Ash (15 years) and (ds) and Tyler. Age 4. Kelli wife of Greg, mother to ,Greg,April,Ash, & Tyler and friend of Dena,daughter to Lynda, sister to Viki, Trasi,Rick and Jon. The End Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 list-mates: What I would like to see, is the type of evidence that establishes in court what it takes to make the legal case that the SMT/adjustment is what caused the vascular injury. What level of causal evidence is there that makes rather than breaks the case? I have never seen this kind of discussion, and think we could all benefit from that point of view as well as the clinical aspects. Does anyone have such a source/reference, etc??? Jack Pedersen, DC Sweet Home "directly above the very CENTER of the Earth"............... cmt and strokes Dr. Freeman, although the input on this listserve is small i still would be curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel about the plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this understandably is a very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and privately to you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling is that only a few see any relationship and if that is true then the dialogue must start there. we can then continue with the facts that prove or disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for the patient but also if there was a common and consistent understanding with common language then there would not be the confusion in the courtroom.vty, sharron fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 list-mates: What I would like to see, is the type of evidence that establishes in court what it takes to make the legal case that the SMT/adjustment is what caused the vascular injury. What level of causal evidence is there that makes rather than breaks the case? I have never seen this kind of discussion, and think we could all benefit from that point of view as well as the clinical aspects. Does anyone have such a source/reference, etc??? Jack Pedersen, DC Sweet Home "directly above the very CENTER of the Earth"............... cmt and strokes Dr. Freeman, although the input on this listserve is small i still would be curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel about the plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this understandably is a very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and privately to you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling is that only a few see any relationship and if that is true then the dialogue must start there. we can then continue with the facts that prove or disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for the patient but also if there was a common and consistent understanding with common language then there would not be the confusion in the courtroom.vty, sharron fuchs dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 i believe vern saboe is the resident expert on this subject. vty, sharron fuchs dc > list-mates: > > What I would like to see, is the type of evidence that establishes in court what it takes to make the legal case that the SMT/adjustment is what caused the vascular injury. What level of causal evidence is there that makes rather than breaks the case? I have never seen this kind of discussion, and think we could all benefit from that point of view as well as the clinical aspects. > > Does anyone have such a source/reference, etc??? > > Jack Pedersen, DC > Sweet Home > " directly above the very CENTER of the Earth " ............... > > > > > > cmt and strokes > > > Dr. Freeman, > > although the input on this listserve is small i still would be > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel about the > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this understandably is a > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and privately to > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling is that only > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the dialogue must > start there. we can then continue with the facts that prove or > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for the patient > but also if there was a common and consistent understanding with > common language then there would not be the confusion in the > courtroom. > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Ok, so my 2cents. In the malpractic cases I have been involved with as an expert/consultant (OUM/NCMIC) the over arching or critical issue to suggest causation is the time between the DC's treatment and the onset of symptoms. If the patient " strokes " on the table proving causation is easier for the plaintiff's attorney, conversely if the supposed stroke occurs several days or even a week or two later the attorney's job is more difficult, so " time " is the critical factor. However when there is this delay of the onset of symptoms and your charting is not up to snuff, nor your work-up, you have no written signed informed consent, and no notation in your chart of a PARQ conference this will all work against you and play into the hands of the plantiff's side. What will happen is the plantiff's attorney will hammer you to death on " negligence " and use this to also sway the jurors as per causation. hope this helps, Vern Saboe cmt and strokes > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still would be > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel about > the > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this understandably > is a > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and > privately to > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling is that > only > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the > dialogue must > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that prove or > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for the > patient > > but also if there was a common and consistent understanding > with > > common language then there would not be the confusion in the > > courtroom. > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 dr. freeman, per the cases that you have reviewed on cmt and stroke, would you please sum up the salient features that constitute negligence in your opinion ? vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > list-mates: > > > > > > > > What I would like to see, is the type of evidence that establishes > > > in court what it takes to make the legal case that the SMT/adjustment > > > is what caused the vascular injury. What level of causal evidence > > > is there that makes rather than breaks the case? I have never seen > > > this kind of discussion, and think we could all benefit from that > > > point of view as well as the clinical aspects. > > > > > > > > Does anyone have such a source/reference, etc??? > > > > > > > > Jack Pedersen, DC > > > > Sweet Home > > > > " directly above the very CENTER of the Earth " ............... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmt and strokes > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, > > > > > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still would be > > > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel about > > > the > > > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this understandably > > > is a > > > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and > > > privately to > > > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling is that > > > only > > > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the > > > dialogue must > > > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that prove or > > > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for the > > > patient > > > > but also if there was a common and consistent understanding > > > with > > > > common language then there would not be the confusion in the > > > > courtroom. > > > > > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 Hi Sharon, In my opinion, if the procedure performed involved more than 45 degrees of rotation and a stroke developed in less than an hour after the manipulation then there is both a causal relationship and negligence. All other instances have to be evaluated on a case by case basis (failing to heed warning signs of cerebrovascular disease, etc.). This is a fairly broad and very important subject - if you have specific case you are familiar with perhaps you could post it and everyone who is interested could comment as to whether they believe the doc was negligent. D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180 Salem, Oregon 97303 phone 503 763-3528 fax 503 763-3530 pager 888 501-7328 cmt and strokes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, > > > > > > > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still > would be > > > > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel > about > > > > the > > > > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this > understandably > > > > is a > > > > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and > > > > privately to > > > > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling > is that > > > > only > > > > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the > > > > dialogue must > > > > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that > prove or > > > > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for > the > > > > patient > > > > > but also if there was a common and consistent > understanding > > > > with > > > > > common language then there would not be the confusion in > the > > > > > courtroom. > > > > > > > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 , may I remind you that a temporal relationship does not prove a causal relationship. Meridel ---------- > From: Dr. D. Freeman <drmfreeman@...> > > Subject: Re: Re: survey > Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 10:44 PM > > Hi Sharon, > In my opinion, if the procedure performed involved more than 45 degrees of > rotation and a stroke developed in less than an hour after the manipulation > then there is both a causal relationship and negligence. All other instances > have to be evaluated on a case by case basis (failing to heed warning signs > of cerebrovascular disease, etc.). > This is a fairly broad and very important subject - if you have specific > case you are familiar with perhaps you could post it and everyone who is > interested could comment as to whether they believe the doc was negligent. > > > > D Freeman > Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180 > Salem, Oregon 97303 > phone 503 763-3528 > fax 503 763-3530 > pager 888 501-7328 > cmt and strokes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, > > > > > > > > > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still > > would be > > > > > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this > > understandably > > > > > is a > > > > > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and > > > > > privately to > > > > > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling > > is that > > > > > only > > > > > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the > > > > > dialogue must > > > > > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that > > prove or > > > > > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for > > the > > > > > patient > > > > > > but also if there was a common and consistent > > understanding > > > > > with > > > > > > common language then there would not be the confusion in > > the > > > > > > courtroom. > > > > > > > > > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2001 Report Share Posted July 20, 2001 Hi Meridel, I agree that a temporal relationship does not prove causation, but if a patient has a VBA stroke on the table of a chiropractor who has just performed a high rotation maneuver and the MRA suggests an intimal tear, the most reasonable conclusion will be to conclude that there was a causal relationship between the manipulation and the CVA. To deny the relationship because it could have been coincidental is an improper forensic standard (the standard on causation being more probable than not, or a reasonable probability [>50%]). I see many experts who incorrectly name an alternative cause as the reason that they will not ascribe causation between an event and an injury, ignoring the fact that there is no evidence of the alternative cause and thus little reason to assign any significant amount of weight to the cause. D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180 Salem, Oregon 97303 phone 503 763-3528 fax 503 763-3530 pager 888 501-7328 cmt and strokes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still > > > would be > > > > > > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this > > > understandably > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and > > > > > > privately to > > > > > > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling > > > is that > > > > > > only > > > > > > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the > > > > > > dialogue must > > > > > > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that > > > prove or > > > > > > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for > > > the > > > > > > patient > > > > > > > but also if there was a common and consistent > > > understanding > > > > > > with > > > > > > > common language then there would not be the confusion in > > > the > > > > > > > courtroom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2001 Report Share Posted July 20, 2001 Agreed , however I think you, Meridel, and our colleagues would agree also that the incidence of CVA's ( " stroke " ) occuring " on the table " are even more remote than the often quoted 1:1 million. Vern Saboe Re: Re: survey >Hi Meridel, >I agree that a temporal relationship does not prove causation, but if a >patient has a VBA stroke on the table of a chiropractor who has just >performed a high rotation maneuver and the MRA suggests an intimal tear, the >most reasonable conclusion will be to conclude that there was a causal >relationship between the manipulation and the CVA. To deny the relationship >because it could have been coincidental is an improper forensic standard >(the standard on causation being more probable than not, or a reasonable >probability [>50%]). I see many experts who incorrectly name an alternative >cause as the reason that they will not ascribe causation between an event >and an injury, ignoring the fact that there is no evidence of the >alternative cause and thus little reason to assign any significant amount of >weight to the cause. > > D Freeman >Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180 >Salem, Oregon 97303 >phone 503 763-3528 >fax 503 763-3530 >pager 888 501-7328 > cmt and strokes >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still >> > > would be >> > > > > > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel >> > > about >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this >> > > understandably >> > > > > > is a >> > > > > > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and >> > > > > > privately to >> > > > > > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling >> > > is that >> > > > > > only >> > > > > > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the >> > > > > > dialogue must >> > > > > > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that >> > > prove or >> > > > > > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for >> > > the >> > > > > > patient >> > > > > > > but also if there was a common and consistent >> > > understanding >> > > > > > with >> > > > > > > common language then there would not be the confusion in >> > > the >> > > > > > > courtroom. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2001 Report Share Posted July 20, 2001 Vern, I don't know what the true incidence of VBA stroke on a chiropractic table, nor does anyone else. All we can do is make some reasonable inferences based on data that seems to represent what's going on out there. I have yet to see such data collected and reported on. There is no question that it is rare, and when one ill-informed author recently reported a 1 in 20,000 incidence this was clearly a reckless statement stemming from little more than biased conjecture. D Freeman Mailing address: 2480 Liberty Street NE Suite 180 Salem, Oregon 97303 phone 503 763-3528 fax 503 763-3530 pager 888 501-7328 cmt and strokes > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dr. Freeman, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > although the input on this listserve is small i still > >> > > would be > >> > > > > > > curious to know how the doctors who do participate feel > >> > > about > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > plain relationship between cmt and stroke. this > >> > > understandably > >> > > > > > is a > >> > > > > > > very touchy subject but this could be done blindly, and > >> > > > > > privately to > >> > > > > > > you and then you could post the results. my gut feeling > >> > > is that > >> > > > > > only > >> > > > > > > a few see any relationship and if that is true then the > >> > > > > > dialogue must > >> > > > > > > start there. we can then continue with the facts that > >> > > prove or > >> > > > > > > disprove the relationship. the concern of course, is for > >> > > the > >> > > > > > patient > >> > > > > > > but also if there was a common and consistent > >> > > understanding > >> > > > > > with > >> > > > > > > common language then there would not be the confusion in > >> > > the > >> > > > > > > courtroom. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > vty, sharron fuchs dc > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2002 Report Share Posted February 10, 2002 I just uploaded a bunch of pdf files on different issues relating to DS, including but not limited to: *Autism and ASD *Wandering *Food textures *Sign Language *Celiac Disease *Recreation & Constipation *Siblings of a kid with DS They are in the " files " section at the group web site. I'll soon move all the pictures that are in the files section to the photo section and keep the file section for such files. If you have some pdf or html files that you want in the files area... please let me know ... or just post them. Cheers, Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Hi, I just tried to get to the survey and got <FW-1 at nok-par-1: Failed to connect to the WWW server>. I'll try again later, but did anyone else have the same trouble? Casey, mom to (DS) and , 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2002 Report Share Posted December 24, 2002 of course ross Merry Christmas Cheers Tom >From: " Ross Boardman " <ross.boardman@...> >Reply- > " Remote Medics " < > >Subject: Survey >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:36:48 -0000 > >Folks, > >Just to help with the options for the proposed Diploma course, I want to >ask >if you can partake in our 1 minute survey which is at >www.remotemedics.co.uk/poll/surveysays.cgi > >The information is anonymous and is there to help us get some basic data >together. > >Many thanks, > >Ross Boardman >Editor and Co-owner >RemoteMedics > >ross@... >www.remotemedics.co.uk > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus & xAPID=42 & PS=47575 & PI=7324 & DI=7474 & SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg & HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection\ _3mf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2002 Report Share Posted December 28, 2002 Ross Call me thick but I can't get to the survey. Help!!!! Arlene --------------------------------- With you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 In a message dated 7/27/2004 10:21:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ajfeedback@... writes: I am collecting data on efficacy of neurofeedback. A question for all: What are your average number of sessions to see significant change and to be done? I will post the results.-- Alan J Strohmayer,PhD Alan, My response to this is that it all depends on who is in front of you. Some clients present with minor or minimal symptomatology and require 10 sessions at most. Others are loaded with both psychophysiological symptomatology AND nerurological and/or psychopathology and 20-40 sessions (or more) are the minimum. There is no "average" number of sessions that I could honestly quote, simply due to the wide variability of who is presenting. Sorry if that gums up your works, but it is factual, at least in my practice, that there is huge variability in the extent of pathology among the patients who present. Best, Dale ************************************************************************************Dale M. , M.S., C.A.C.B., CPPS, BCIAC-EEG-Associate Fellow,BCIAC-Senior FellowChair, PsyPhy List Owner's Editorial Board Member-At-Large, Executive Board, Northeast Regional BF Society Member, AAPB Task Force on Marketing Member, AAPB Committee for Insurance & Legislative MattersClinical/Executive Director: Biofeedback & Alternative Medicine Centers, Inc.New Jersey Offices in Cherry Hill (856-795-8101) and town (856-728-7900)Cell phone: 856-404-2565Dale@...BFALTMED@...www.biofeedback.net/altmedicine You cannot engage in an act of kindness too soon, for you never know how soon it will be too late.-Ralph Waldo Emerson*********************************************************************************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Alan, On what problem with clients of what age? I have generally expected to see results that continue to improve following training for attention and impulse control problems in children in about 40 sessions. More difficult cases might run to 50-60. Autistic spectrum, closed head injury and some others involving more serious disarrangements can continue to benefit for hundreds of sessions For adults I usually see lasting results in issues like anxiety, depression, attention, etc. in 20-30 sessions. Some clients with strong autonomic involvement in their presentation may take up to 40. Pete Van DeusenBrainTrainer ()16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157305/321-1595 survey I am collecting data on efficacy of neurofeedback. A question for all: What are your average number of sessions to see significant change and to be done? I will post the results.-- Alan J Strohmayer,PhD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Alan I really appreciate your quest, but sooo many variables, and what you might call significant change, makes it difficult to answer. I did about 4 sessions at one site, and changed to my second choice protocol, and the Mom came back and said " OH MY GOD .. What did you do !! ?? .. After 7 years, NO OPPOSITION. Generally I've found similar results to most everyone else. Depending on the issues, and whether or not you choose to work on " core " issues first, etc. etc. Most of my " kids " show change in 20 sessions, show a lot of change in 40, and some have gone way past that. Also, change with regard to, let's say spectrum, when you see a child come in with thetas in the 40's and 50's and after 20 minutes of training they have thetas of 20's and 30's. To me, that's significant! I've recently begun to branch out into brain injury. After 10 sessions, some people have shown remarkable changes (for the first 10 sessions, they couldn't remember who I was or what I was doing). Suddenly they did. I'm not sure you'll find a standard because each of our brains are so unique, and depending on what things each trainer takes on with a client, would, I believe, make for incredible differences. Sorry to be rambling on so, but qualifying significant change is difficult (Pete would know better than me, but probably one of the most cited criticism of NFB). But, the short of it .. for me .. has been very similar to Pete's statements. I am VERY interested in the information you collect! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 I have received several replies saying the question is impossible because of the variance. I know we all tell prospective clients something based on our experience. I would like to know what that number is. ie , " most ADHD children in my program show changes after n sessions and take n+ sessions to get the maximum benefit. " In a message dated 7/31/2004 8:29:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, " Key " <danielkey@...> writes: >Alan > >I really appreciate your quest, but sooo many variables, and what you might >call significant change, makes it difficult to answer. Â I did about 4 >sessions at one site, and changed to my second choice protocol, and the Mom >came back and said " OH MY GOD .. What did you do !! ?? .. After 7 years, NO >OPPOSITION. Â Generally I've found similar results to most everyone else. >Depending on the issues, and whether or not you choose to work on " core " >issues first, etc. etc. Â Most of my " kids " show change in 20 sessions, show >a lot of change in 40, and some have gone way past that. Â Also, change with >regard to, let's say spectrum, when you see a child come in with thetas in >the 40's and 50's and after 20 minutes of training they have thetas of 20's >and 30's. Â To me, that's significant! > >I've recently begun to branch out into brain injury. Â After 10 sessions, >some people have shown remarkable changes (for the first 10 sessions, they >couldn't remember who I was or what I was doing). Â Suddenly they did. > >I'm not sure you'll find a standard because each of our brains are so >unique, and depending on what things each trainer takes on with a client, >would, I believe, make for incredible differences. Â > >Sorry to be rambling on so, but qualifying significant change is difficult >(Pete would know better than me, but probably one of the most cited >criticism of NFB). > >But, the short of it .. Â for me .. Â has been very similar to Pete's >statements. > >I am VERY interested in the information you collect! > >Good luck > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Alan What Dale said, coincides with what I find. The degree of dysregulation probably equals the number of sessions. I give " estimates " to parents, etc. based on the TLC, AMEN subjective, and TLC objective assessments, a medical, and social history, and talk with the parents and the child. Everyone asks the questions you're asking. But, because the population that I work with (at least in the past) are so very different, I tell them some respond in 10 sessions, some in 20, but that my promise to them is that I will not keep them training if we don't seem to have some effect in approximately 20 sessions. Dr. Von will tell you that he has very few (if any) failures. He also requests from some of his clients that they train twice a day, every day, and some of his clients train upwards of 100 sessions. When I trained myself, it seemed forever before I was able to impact my theta/beta ratios. Traditionally, one of the criticisms of neurofeedback, has been no significant number of quantitative studies have been done. I don't find that unusual at all, because until about 10 (going out on a limb here) years ago, the brain was the most understudied organ in the body, particularly by people in the mental health field. I think some folks around the country are beginning to apply for study grants, just so we can develop some sort of statistical result format. Have you checked the Jouranal of Neuropathy?, or certification agencies like BCIA.. .. Maybe they have some data that might help you. Pete worked with Lubar for a long time and solo years afterwards. He probably has more experience in ADhD than all of us. You can bet that his estimates are correct. Sigfried has published the book THE 20 HOUR SOLUTION, with similar information. So in a statiscial world, that's what I say might be an average. With attachment disordered children it probably isn't true. What I usually do is invite the client, parent, etc. to do their own research. I invite them to read The 20 hour solution, or Getting Rid of Ritalin, or any of Amen's books, and to search the web for information concerning their particular " complaint " . I'm curious though, what is the purpose of your survey? Again, good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Fran, What would you think about a survey comparing symptoms and treatments that worked? ie.. child with joint pain with = T & A didn't work, Pred didn't work, Cimetidine works. I think it would be wonderful if we could find a statistical link between the 3 different treatment options and which kids with similiar symptoms had success with which treatment. I would be happy to compile the data if you think it is a plausable idea. Randi Jessika (age 8) and Tristan's mom Ballston Spa, NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 Fran, What would you think about a survey comparing symptoms and treatments that worked? ie.. child with joint pain with = T & A didn't work, Pred didn't work, Cimetidine works. I think it would be wonderful if we could find a statistical link between the 3 different treatment options and which kids with similiar symptoms had success with which treatment. I would be happy to compile the data if you think it is a plausable idea. Randi Jessika (age 8) and Tristan's mom Ballston Spa, NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Randi, GREAT to hear from you! This is like a class reunion... LOL Hearing from the OLDER members! As for an added survey.... We can create a poll or another " short " survey specific for the 3 different treatment options.... and similar symptoms. The symptom part is where it may become more difficult because many kids have totally different symptoms with LITTLE commonality.... What I mean is you will see some of our parents thinking a symptom may be related... but usually has nothing to do with ..... etc... Feel free to " create " a template for the survey and send it to me to my email.... fbulone@... and together we can fine tune it and send it to the group. Do not be surprised... MANY members do not respond. The response should be directly to you if you take this on and NOT to the group.... Then you may compile the data.... (need to give a deadline so you can compile) and publish the results to the group!! I think it would be very interesting! Let me know what you think. God Bless, Fran Fran A Bulone Mom to ph 5 yrs old Waxhaw, NC Owner & Moderator Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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