Guest guest Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 He sounds like an educated idiot. With that blow delivered, I will say he is probably brilliant in his field, but not someone who would interest me to talk with for any length of time. Gayla Always Enough Ranch Acampo, California http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html Bill Barnhill is our Inspiration! Go Bill!!! aeranch@... Re: HAs anyone read this? >I read that just last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2007 Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 He sounds like an educated idiot. With that blow delivered, I will say he is probably brilliant in his field, but not someone who would interest me to talk with for any length of time. Gayla Always Enough Ranch Acampo, California http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html Bill Barnhill is our Inspiration! Go Bill!!! aeranch@... Re: HAs anyone read this? >I read that just last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Methinks he's very angry from people calling him all the time and wanting to buy a " kombucha mushrooms " and not his fungus. Where most people really don't care whats in a name, its his life's work. I often get calls from people who want directions on growing the mushrooms. After I carefully explain how kombucha is made they then say " where do I plant it? " . I think kombucha may have been referenced as a mushroom because it is made from yeasts and yeast was/is considered a fungus. Quite a few references to kombucha as a yeast fungus, yeasts paddy, tea fungus, and from there fungus to mushroom. After all fungus is a bad thing, right! and mushroom is a good thing. Maybe someone should remind him that mushrooms are not poisonous - toadstools are! Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com .................................................. HAs anyone read this? Posted by: " Joyce " jmillerwolfe@... jmiller_wolfe Wed Aug 1, 2007 6:37 pm (PST) And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very sick. You can read this stuff at http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. Joyce Dallas tX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Methinks he's very angry from people calling him all the time and wanting to buy a " kombucha mushrooms " and not his fungus. Where most people really don't care whats in a name, its his life's work. I often get calls from people who want directions on growing the mushrooms. After I carefully explain how kombucha is made they then say " where do I plant it? " . I think kombucha may have been referenced as a mushroom because it is made from yeasts and yeast was/is considered a fungus. Quite a few references to kombucha as a yeast fungus, yeasts paddy, tea fungus, and from there fungus to mushroom. After all fungus is a bad thing, right! and mushroom is a good thing. Maybe someone should remind him that mushrooms are not poisonous - toadstools are! Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com .................................................. HAs anyone read this? Posted by: " Joyce " jmillerwolfe@... jmiller_wolfe Wed Aug 1, 2007 6:37 pm (PST) And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very sick. You can read this stuff at http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. Joyce Dallas tX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I read that just last week. I was dying with laughter at the first half and very disappointed at the 2nd half. His ignorance in the first half was funny, but not in the 2nd half. I'm sure his friend was very disappointed! jan > > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very > sick. > > You can read this stuff at http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html > > This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom > My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets > > ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the > line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. > > Joyce > Dallas tX > > -- > Cirque du Sol'Aire: Don't miss the 2008 Airedale Quilt: raffle tickets > are available at http://www.airedalerescue.net/circus/index.htm -- > Visit often, and buy tickets every time. All proceeds go to Airedale > Rescue. > > Joyce www.jubileeaires.com IACP P-1834 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 I read that just last week. I was dying with laughter at the first half and very disappointed at the 2nd half. His ignorance in the first half was funny, but not in the 2nd half. I'm sure his friend was very disappointed! jan > > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very > sick. > > You can read this stuff at http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html > > This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom > My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets > > ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the > line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. > > Joyce > Dallas tX > > -- > Cirque du Sol'Aire: Don't miss the 2008 Airedale Quilt: raffle tickets > are available at http://www.airedalerescue.net/circus/index.htm -- > Visit often, and buy tickets every time. All proceeds go to Airedale > Rescue. > > Joyce www.jubileeaires.com IACP P-1834 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Interesting. I respect 's knowledge in the fungi/mushroom realm. It seems he already has a slant negatively about kombucha from the beginning of his article though. Ahavah HAs anyone read this? And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very sick. You can read this stuff at http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. Joyce Dallas tX -- Cirque du Sol'Aire: Don't miss the 2008 Airedale Quilt: raffle tickets are available at http://www.airedalerescue.net/circus/index.htm -- Visit often, and buy tickets every time. All proceeds go to Airedale Rescue. Joyce www.jubileeaires.com IACP P-1834 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Interesting. I respect 's knowledge in the fungi/mushroom realm. It seems he already has a slant negatively about kombucha from the beginning of his article though. Ahavah HAs anyone read this? And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very sick. You can read this stuff at http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. Joyce Dallas tX -- Cirque du Sol'Aire: Don't miss the 2008 Airedale Quilt: raffle tickets are available at http://www.airedalerescue.net/circus/index.htm -- Visit often, and buy tickets every time. All proceeds go to Airedale Rescue. Joyce www.jubileeaires.com IACP P-1834 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 So he contends that we should all be very sick from our indiscriminate use of KT when we are healthy- so where are all these supposedly sick people? My experience is enhanced health, and reports from others indicate the same. zoe > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very > sick. > You can read this stuff at > http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html > This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom > My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets > ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the > line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. > Joyce > Dallas tX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 So he contends that we should all be very sick from our indiscriminate use of KT when we are healthy- so where are all these supposedly sick people? My experience is enhanced health, and reports from others indicate the same. zoe > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy people > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very > sick. > You can read this stuff at > http://www.fungi.com/info/articles/blob.html > This was written in 1994 and updated in 1995. The Manchurian Mushroom > My Adventures with " The Blob " by Stamets > ly, I think he is a very fearful person who has bought into the > line that germs are all around him waiting to pounce. > Joyce > Dallas tX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 It reminded me of the unfortunate return of the old snake oil purveyors. As soon as the meal ticket fell through, he kicks KT to the curb. It's a shame that people who don't know better may read his ignorant, contradictoy rant and be turned off to one of the best things they could ever try. It seems to me, he should drink be drinking plenty of kombucha, it just might cure his case of the grumps. If anyone ever meets him, tell him to smile more, ignorance is supposed to be bliss. > > > > > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the > > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy > people > > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very > > sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 It reminded me of the unfortunate return of the old snake oil purveyors. As soon as the meal ticket fell through, he kicks KT to the curb. It's a shame that people who don't know better may read his ignorant, contradictoy rant and be turned off to one of the best things they could ever try. It seems to me, he should drink be drinking plenty of kombucha, it just might cure his case of the grumps. If anyone ever meets him, tell him to smile more, ignorance is supposed to be bliss. > > > > > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is the > > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy > people > > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very > > sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 There will always be the naysayers, he is not alone in this department. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, all one has to do is look. It is good to question, this is how we all learn, but to blindly take someones word for something can come to no good end. Snake oil unfortunately is still with us today and riding on the tails of alternative medicine and herbal therapy among others. We really do have to be on our toes to sort one from the other. Huggs zoe > It reminded me of the unfortunate return of the old snake oil > purveyors. As soon as the meal ticket fell through, he kicks KT to the > curb. It's a shame that people who don't know better may read his > ignorant, contradictoy rant and be turned off to one of the best > things they could ever try. It seems to me, he should drink be > drinking plenty of kombucha, it just might cure his case of the grumps. > If anyone ever meets him, tell him to smile more, ignorance is > supposed to be bliss. >> >> > >> > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is > the >> > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy >> people >> > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very >> > sick. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 There will always be the naysayers, he is not alone in this department. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary, all one has to do is look. It is good to question, this is how we all learn, but to blindly take someones word for something can come to no good end. Snake oil unfortunately is still with us today and riding on the tails of alternative medicine and herbal therapy among others. We really do have to be on our toes to sort one from the other. Huggs zoe > It reminded me of the unfortunate return of the old snake oil > purveyors. As soon as the meal ticket fell through, he kicks KT to the > curb. It's a shame that people who don't know better may read his > ignorant, contradictoy rant and be turned off to one of the best > things they could ever try. It seems to me, he should drink be > drinking plenty of kombucha, it just might cure his case of the grumps. > If anyone ever meets him, tell him to smile more, ignorance is > supposed to be bliss. >> >> > >> > And what are your comments? The writer seems to think that KT is > the >> > equivalent of an antibiotic that should not be taken by healthy >> people >> > and that it is so open to contaminants that we should all be very >> > sick. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Grrrrrrrr! " Tel it not in Gath... " Just don't post the %$ & £%^ link again. Nn. England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Grrrrrrrr! " Tel it not in Gath... " Just don't post the %$ & £%^ link again. Nn. England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 OMG! They are not trying to kill anyone! The end of life counseling is NOT mandatory it is OPTIONAL. The bill says that if a patient wants it, they will pay for a half hour counseling session with their doctor to make sure that what they want at the end of their lives is what they get. It is OPTIONAL for EVERYONE who wants it, not just old people. Obama is not trying to kill off granny for pete's sake! I understand that not everyone is keen on offering people a government OPTION when it comes to health care, I mean, I know that many think that health care is a priviledge, I see it as a right. But, if you have issues with the bill, READ IT YOURSELF and take issue with things that are in the actual bill and not what some side with an agenda wants you to think you should take issue with. Or listen to what all sides say about the bill then READ THOSE SECTIONS YOURSELF! As for the Hitler comparisons, for crying outloud! Hitler was a hateful man who brought his hate to his office. He used psychological means to convince Germans that the Jews were what was wrong with the country. Obama has never expressed hate toward any group of people. If anyone has tried to accomplish getting us to hate any group of people, it would have been Bush & Co. trying to encite hate and fear in us toward Iraqis and Muslims! Hitler has been dead for many years, we have learned a lot from him about how not to be, but why oh why does his name come up when anyone wants to make us fear any leader? Aye, aye aye ---- Amy <designconceptsstudio@...> wrote: ============= Wow! People should ask themselves how any country of people can eventually be OK with killing off others as they did in Nazi Germany??? What started it? The didn't just round up the Jews one day - a lot happened before that to prepare people for this. And these were people just like us. We are no different - EXCEPT we have the internet where information is more available. What are we going to do differently? Thanks for posting this!!! Has anyone heard of the Georgia Guidestones? http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm This lists the 10 Guides (commandments) #1: *Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.* How does one do that when the world's population is 6.7 billion now? I heard that Bill Clinton said we need to reduce the population by 1 billion. Vaccines, genetic engineered seeds, government run healthcare, auto & banking - it's all tied together and none of it is to " help " people. It is designed clearly to " hurt " and " control " . On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Maracuja <howdurdago@...> wrote: > > > This was sent to me from a friend who recently had > treatment in Ca. > > You know, there are times when I have seen that snopes is not accurate. > And this is one. > > I > have read the Bill, various links, and the link provided to the blog > with interest. One glaring sentence in the blog jumped out and it made > me cringe. > > " ... and one of the most shocking things I found in this bill - and there > were many - is on page 425 where the Congress would make it mandatory, > absolutely > required, that every five years people in Medicare have a required > counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner. > How to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go into > hospice care... " > > At the end of this quote the blogger goes on to state..... " Um, no. " > > I > am here to state, " Um, yes. " And I will tell you why. My recent visit > to the State of California, especially the hospital, was very > enlightening. I have heard that California is the first to implement > these healthcare changes. I don't know what the policy is in other > states, so I cannot say this for sure. However, I was in California. > I was in the hospital there, and what I witnessed was very disturbing. > > First > of all, when I was admitted into the hospital, they thought that there > was something seriously wrong with me. Much more serious than a > pulmonary infection and asthma. For one thing, I was put on the floor > for lung cancer patients. While there, I observed many interactions > between doctors and patients and as I felt better, I was able to walk > around and personally visit with the patients there. > > One of > the big changes coming to our country is facilitated deaths which are > to be done under the guise of hospice care. No, let me rephrase that. > The truth is that facilitated deaths are already here. I know for a > fact that it is being implemented in the State of California. > > Take > a look at the portion of the quoted text that is in bold. This is one > of the ways that they are doing it. By withholding nourishment. In a > conversation with one of the patients daughter's, hospice care came > up. Her mother happened to be my roommate. Under professional advice, > it was recommended that she put her mother in hospice. There are two > blessings in this particular situation. The first is that the daughter > elected to care for the mother at home. The second is that she had the > freedom to be able to remove her from the " hospice " situation. > > Her major complaint was that she was instructed > not to give her mother food or liquids unless she specifically asked > for them. And you know, I guess not knowing better and trusting that > these people knew what they were talking about, she complied. After > day 4 of very little to no nourishment, yes, her mother was dying. She > took one look at her and saw the drastic change, the graying skin, and > became overcome with panic. After finding it necessary to remove her > from hospice, she called an ambulance to have her brought to the > hospital. The problem was dehydration. Once hydrated, she started > eating normally and regained normal skin color. > > Through the > hospital curtain, I witnessed a conversation between the daughter and > her mother's doctor where the daughter described what had transpired > during hospice and the doctor's reply was to state that older patients > are put into hospice earlier than needed and that " hospice tends to > facilitate death. " Then he said....... " Your mom still has a lot of > life left in her. " Well, there is still honesty in the medical > profession. Some still do have a heart. > > I > am afraid that the proposals in this Bill are not only about to happen > but that they are already occurring in some parts of the country. > > Either > the blogger referenced in the prior post is grossly misinformed or she > is purposely deceiving the public. And this is mainstream medicine's > and mainstream media's main tactic. To slyly deceive the public. > > At this time more than ever we need common sense. > > > > From: Goss <natmedrocks@... <natmedrocks%40.au>> > Subject: Has anyone read this? > Vaccinations <Vaccinations%40> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > I received > this from the US > today > > > > Hear this > interview at this link: > > http://tinyurl.com/mcmq6h > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > google Betsy McCaughey and find > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > I'm about ready to march on Washington > .. How about you? > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > for > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > refusal > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > and on > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > illness such as cancer, > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > I copied all > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl.com/mcmq6h > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealthcare.com<http://www.defendyourhealthcare.com/> > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > yesterday.. > > > > Please spread > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > they > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > Heaven help us ! > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > Australia > > ____________________________ > > __________________________________________________________ > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile./mail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Here it is, the actual wording from the bill regarding Advance Care Planning Consultations, it is NOT called end of life counseling, which I, myself have referred to it as: ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation 6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the 7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, 10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has 11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such 12 consultation shall include the following: 13 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and 15 considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to. 17 ‘‘( An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable 19 powers of attorney, and their uses. 20 ‘‘© An explanation by the practitioner of the 21 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy. 22 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list 23 of national and State-specific resources to assist con24 sumers and their families with advance care plan25 ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad- 1 vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal 2 service organizations (including those funded 3 through the Older Americans Act of 1965). 4 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the 5 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail6 able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene7 fits for such services and supports that are available 8 under this title. 9 ‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of 10 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar 11 orders, which shall include— 12 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of 13 such an order is beneficial to the individual and 14 the individual’s family and the reasons why 15 such an order should be updated periodically as 16 the health of the individual changes; 17 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi18 vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci19 sions regarding the completion of such an 20 order; and 21 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that 22 an individual may use to determine the require23 ments of the State in which such individual re24 sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi25 vidual will be carried out if the individual is un- 1 able to communicate those wishes, including re2 quirements regarding the designation of a sur3 rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health 4 care proxy). 5 ‘‘(ii) The Secretary shall limit the requirement 6 for explanations under clause (i) to consultations 7 furnished in a State— 8 ‘‘(I) in which all legal barriers have been 9 addressed for enabling orders for life sustaining 10 treatment to constitute a set of medical orders 11 respected across all care settings; and 12 ‘‘(II) that has in effect a program for or13 ders for life sustaining treatment described in 14 clause (iii). 15 ‘‘(iii) A program for orders for life sustaining 16 treatment for a States described in this clause is a 17 program that— 18 ‘‘(I) ensures such orders are standardized 19 and uniquely identifiable throughout the State; 20 ‘‘(II) distributes or makes accessible such 21 orders to physicians and other health profes22 sionals that (acting within the scope of the pro23 fessional’s authority under State law) may sign 24 orders for life sustaining treatment; 1 ‘‘(III) provides training for health care 2 professionals across the continuum of care 3 about the goals and use of orders for life sus4 taining treatment; and 5 ‘‘(IV) is guided by a coalition of stake6 holders includes representatives from emergency 7 medical services, emergency department physi8 cians or nurses, state long-term care associa9 tion, state medical association, state surveyors, 10 agency responsible for senior services, state de11 partment of health, state hospital association, 12 home health association, state bar association, 13 and state hospice association. 14 ‘‘(2) A practitioner described in this paragraph is— 15 ‘‘(A) a physician (as defined in subsection 16 ®(1)); and 17 ‘‘( a nurse practitioner or physician’s assist18 ant who has the authority under State law to sign 19 orders for life sustaining treatments. 20 ‘‘(3)(A) An initial preventive physical examination 21 under subsection (WW), including any related discussion 22 during such examination, shall not be considered an ad23 vance care planning consultation for purposes of applying 24 the 5-year limitation under paragraph (1 ‘‘( An advance care planning consultation with re2 spect to an individual may be conducted more frequently 3 than provided under paragraph (1) if there is a significant 4 change in the health condition of the individual, including 5 diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a 6 life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening 7 injury, or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a 8 long-term care facility (as defined by the Secretary), or 9 a hospice program. 10 ‘‘(4) A consultation under this subsection may in11 clude the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining 12 treatment or a similar order. 13 ‘‘(5)(A) For purposes of this section, the term ‘order 14 regarding life sustaining treatment’ means, with respect 15 to an individual, an actionable medical order relating to 16 the treatment of that individual that— 17 ‘‘(i) is signed and dated by a physician (as de18 fined in subsection ®(1)) or another health care 19 professional (as specified by the Secretary and who 20 is acting within the scope of the professional’s au21 thority under State law in signing such an order, in22 cluding a nurse practitioner or physician assistant) 23 and is in a form that permits it to stay with the in24 dividual and be followed by health care professionals 25 and providers across the continuum of care; 1 ‘‘(ii) effectively communicates the individual’s 2 preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, in3 cluding an indication of the treatment and care de4 sired by the individual; 5 ‘‘(iii) is uniquely identifiable and standardized 6 within a given locality, region, or State (as identified 7 by the Secretary); and 8 ‘‘(iv) may incorporate any advance directive (as 9 defined in section 1866(f)(3)) if executed by the in10 dividual. 11 ‘‘( The level of treatment indicated under subpara12 graph (A)(ii) may range from an indication for full treat13 ment to an indication to limit some or all or specified 14 interventions. Such indicated levels of treatment may in15 clude indications respecting, among other items— 16 ‘‘(i) the intensity of medical intervention if the 17 patient is pulse less, apneic, or has serious cardiac 18 or pulmonary problems; 19 ‘‘(ii) the individual’s desire regarding transfer 20 to a hospital or remaining at the current care set21 ting; 22 ‘‘(iii) the use of antibiotics; and 23 ‘‘(iv) the use of artificially administered nutri24 tion and hydration.’’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Hi Amy Just a couple of comments. I realize this is a hot topic, so don't take anything I say personal. People who tend to believe in people instead of principals or issues will always have an argument flaring. Kind of like the Democrats and the Republicans. When a person joins a group they tend to feel more sure of themselves and sometimes back their group even if they feel they are wrong. So my thought is Who is doing the interviewing.. The Medical profession, the government or a doctor who is in government? All I know is that when I sold insurance to seniors it was very easy to persuade them. Many seniors that I talked to indicated they were ready to go. ( Probably tired of life's struggles) In the hands of people(medical) who make money off their advice and treatment. What advice do you think they would get? Actually we really don't have health care, we have disease care. Health care would involve something sensible like encouraging things like taking care of yourself, diet,exercise,fresh air if you can find any, and sunshine and positive thinking. Poisoning ones immune system and cutting out their vital organs just doesn't seem to make sense to me. When you say you see it as a right, I agree if you are adhering to the above thoughts on keeping yourself healthy, but if your saying that I should pay your bills because you don't take care of yourself and your children then we would have a strong disagreement. No government has the right to take money out of my pocket and put it in the pocket of my neighbor. I wouldn't compare anyone in our government with hilter, but I can conceive of people in and out of government that put money above human life. Whether he is like that I couldn't say, but the fact that the vaccine pushers keep causing disease,disability and death tells me there are folks like that. My take on politics is that the two partys are basically the same. They have both been selling out this country for fame and fortune since Roosevelt, maybe even before him. Jim O' Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D. Shots in body's are deadly Healthologist Graduated from the school of Hard Knocks Certified in CS not BS ________________________________ From: Sara <Sassygirl1218@...> Vaccinations@... Cc: Amy <designconceptsstudio@...> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 8:40:51 AM Subject: Re: Has anyone read this? OMG! They are not trying to kill anyone! The end of life counseling is NOT mandatory it is OPTIONAL. The bill says that if a patient wants it, they will pay for a half hour counseling session with their doctor to make sure that what they want at the end of their lives is what they get. It is OPTIONAL for EVERYONE who wants it, not just old people. Obama is not trying to kill off granny for pete's sake! I understand that not everyone is keen on offering people a government OPTION when it comes to health care, I mean, I know that many think that health care is a priviledge, I see it as a right. But, if you have issues with the bill, READ IT YOURSELF and take issue with things that are in the actual bill and not what some side with an agenda wants you to think you should take issue with. Or listen to what all sides say about the bill then READ THOSE SECTIONS YOURSELF! As for the Hitler comparisons, for crying outloud! Hitler was a hateful man who brought his hate to his office. He used psychological means to convince Germans that the Jews were what was wrong with the country. Obama has never expressed hate toward any group of people. If anyone has tried to accomplish getting us to hate any group of people, it would have been Bush & Co. trying to encite hate and fear in us toward Iraqis and Muslims! Hitler has been dead for many years, we have learned a lot from him about how not to be, but why oh why does his name come up when anyone wants to make us fear any leader? Aye, aye aye ---- Amy <designconceptsstudi o@...> wrote: ============ = Wow! People should ask themselves how any country of people can eventually be OK with killing off others as they did in Nazi Germany??? What started it? The didn't just round up the Jews one day - a lot happened before that to prepare people for this. And these were people just like us. We are no different - EXCEPT we have the internet where information is more available. What are we going to do differently? Thanks for posting this!!! Has anyone heard of the Georgia Guidestones? http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm This lists the 10 Guides (commandments) #1: *Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.* How does one do that when the world's population is 6.7 billion now? I heard that Bill Clinton said we need to reduce the population by 1 billion. Vaccines, genetic engineered seeds, government run healthcare, auto & banking - it's all tied together and none of it is to " help " people. It is designed clearly to " hurt " and " control " . On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Maracuja <howdurdago (DOT) com> wrote: > > > This was sent to me from a friend who recently had > treatment in Ca. > > You know, there are times when I have seen that snopes is not accurate. > And this is one. > > I > have read the Bill, various links, and the link provided to the blog > with interest. One glaring sentence in the blog jumped out and it made > me cringe. > > " ... and one of the most shocking things I found in this bill - and there > were many - is on page 425 where the Congress would make it mandatory, > absolutely > required, that every five years people in Medicare have a required > counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner. > How to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go into > hospice care... " > > At the end of this quote the blogger goes on to state..... " Um, no. " > > I > am here to state, " Um, yes. " And I will tell you why. My recent visit > to the State of California, especially the hospital, was very > enlightening. I have heard that California is the first to implement > these healthcare changes. I don't know what the policy is in other > states, so I cannot say this for sure. However, I was in California. > I was in the hospital there, and what I witnessed was very disturbing. > > First > of all, when I was admitted into the hospital, they thought that there > was something seriously wrong with me. Much more serious than a > pulmonary infection and asthma. For one thing, I was put on the floor > for lung cancer patients. While there, I observed many interactions > between doctors and patients and as I felt better, I was able to walk > around and personally visit with the patients there. > > One of > the big changes coming to our country is facilitated deaths which are > to be done under the guise of hospice care. No, let me rephrase that. > The truth is that facilitated deaths are already here. I know for a > fact that it is being implemented in the State of California. > > Take > a look at the portion of the quoted text that is in bold. This is one > of the ways that they are doing it. By withholding nourishment. In a > conversation with one of the patients daughter's, hospice care came > up. Her mother happened to be my roommate. Under professional advice, > it was recommended that she put her mother in hospice. There are two > blessings in this particular situation. The first is that the daughter > elected to care for the mother at home. The second is that she had the > freedom to be able to remove her from the " hospice " situation. > > Her major complaint was that she was instructed > not to give her mother food or liquids unless she specifically asked > for them. And you know, I guess not knowing better and trusting that > these people knew what they were talking about, she complied. After > day 4 of very little to no nourishment, yes, her mother was dying. She > took one look at her and saw the drastic change, the graying skin, and > became overcome with panic. After finding it necessary to remove her > from hospice, she called an ambulance to have her brought to the > hospital. The problem was dehydration. Once hydrated, she started > eating normally and regained normal skin color. > > Through the > hospital curtain, I witnessed a conversation between the daughter and > her mother's doctor where the daughter described what had transpired > during hospice and the doctor's reply was to state that older patients > are put into hospice earlier than needed and that " hospice tends to > facilitate death. " Then he said....... " Your mom still has a lot of > life left in her. " Well, there is still honesty in the medical > profession. Some still do have a heart. > > I > am afraid that the proposals in this Bill are not only about to happen > but that they are already occurring in some parts of the country. > > Either > the blogger referenced in the prior post is grossly misinformed or she > is purposely deceiving the public. And this is mainstream medicine's > and mainstream media's main tactic. To slyly deceive the public. > > At this time more than ever we need common sense. > > > > From: Goss <natmedrocks. au <natmedrocks% 40. au>> > Subject: Has anyone read this? > Vaccinations <Vaccinations% 40groups. com> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > I received > this from the US > today > > > > Hear this > interview at this link: > > http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > google Betsy McCaughey and find > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > I'm about ready to march on Washington > .. How about you? > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > for > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > refusal > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > and on > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > illness such as cancer, > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > I copied all > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealt hcare.com<http://www.defendyo urhealthcare. com/> > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > yesterday.. > > > > Please spread > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > they > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > Heaven help us ! > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > Australia > > ____________ _________ _______ > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile. / mail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 The main problem is see with the proposed health care reform is that it gives the goverment a lot of vague authority but no limitations. No matter what they say their intentions are now, those intentions can quickly change. And they will. It seems that to do what they are proposing without limiting care and withholding care from those less " valuable " it will simply cost too much. They are going to have to make cuts in health care. They are not going to just " visit " door to door to counsel people about health care because they care so much about us. Giving anyone that much authority is just plain asking for trouble. They will abuse it. Just like in land when they threatened parents with fines and jail time if they didn't vaccinate their kids. They could have told the parents to fill out the exemption forms or get the vaccines, but they didn't say that. They had the police there to " encourage " vaccines. The schools are supposed to be teaching. They aren't even doing their primary job well, but yet they have time and money to be in the vaccine business. The government needs to start limiting the drug companies, not us. Trish Re: Re: Has anyone read this? Here it is, the actual wording from the bill regarding Advance Care Planning Consultations, it is NOT called end of life counseling, which I, myself have referred to it as: ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation 6 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the 7 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, 10 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has 11 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such 12 consultation shall include the following: 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 my thoughts exactly Jim...  Arianna Mojica -  (UCC 1-207/1-103) ~~~ " All rights not demanded are presumed waived " . ~ Thurston ~~~ " The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used " -- Dr. A. , National Institutes of Health ~~~A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed...When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic. " Dresden www.vaclib.org www.909shot.com  http://www.vacinfo.org/ http://www.vran.org/ http://www.momtoanangel.net/ingred.htm  http://www.moorbows.com/ > > From: Goss <natmedrocks. au <natmedrocks% 40. au>> > Subject: Has anyone read this? > Vaccinations <Vaccinations% 40groups. com> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > I received > this from the US > today > > > > Hear this > interview at this link: > > http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > google Betsy McCaughey and find > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > I'm about ready to march on Washington > .. How about you? > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > for > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > refusal > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > and on > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > illness such as cancer, > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > I copied all > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealt hcare.com<http://www.defendyo urhealthcare. com/> > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > yesterday.. > > > > Please spread > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > they > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > Heaven help us ! > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > Australia > > ____________ _________ _______ > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile. / mail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 " When you say you see it as a right, I agree if you are adhering to the above thoughts on keeping yourself healthy, but if your saying that I should pay your bills because you don't take care of yourself and your children then we would have a strong disagreement. No government has the right to take money out of my pocket and put it in the pocket of my neighbor. " No one is going to take your money and put it in the pocket of your neighbor. If you can't look at this as a compassion thing, I mean those damn kids who need organ transplants should have been fortunate enough to have been born into money, look at it as a money saving issue. What do you mean by that, Sara? Good question. Let me explain, although, it would be much easier to do with a flow chart, but alas, I will do my best: People who do not have health insurance will wait until an issue is out of control to get help. They can't afford a doctor visit, so they go to the ER. They now need to be admitted and be provided with extensive care. When they are discharged, they can not afford their bill, so they don't pay, or they file for bankruptcy. Either way, the hospital does not get paid. So.....the hospital has to raise prices for care to recoup the loss. Insurance companies are businesses and when the hospital raises prices to recoup their loss, they lose out on profit. This will not please investors, so the insurance company raises it's premiums, co-pays, deductibles, or drop people from their rolls, which they do on a daily basis. So now you and I are the ones paying for this care. I don't know about you, but my co-pays have doubled for ER visits. My co-pays for prescriptions have gone up and our deductible has gone up to $5000 for the family. We still have a hard time paying for our care, even with what is considered good coverage. Even if you don't agree with the disease care, what about injuries? My hospital stay alone after being hit by a car was $110,000, which ONLY covers the room and nursing care. The operating room was extra. The surgery was extra. The doctors were, you guessed it, extra. The physical therapists who came to my room, extra. When I left, my costs were over $200,000! My rehabilitative costs were double that! When I got to the hospital, they pulled the wrong insurance card from my wallet, my husband's company switched coverage one week before and I still had my old card. They found out that the policy was expired and they were ready to minimize the care I was going to receive! My husband then informed them that I did in fact have coverage and they went all out for me. We did not know that we could file an auto claim for the accident, as I was not driving or even in a car, so we didn't do that at first. The hospital said that my insurance company had determined my stay was long enough and they were ready to discharge me. I could barely sit up. I had a halo drilled into my head. I could not walk. I still had staples in my leg from my surgery. I couldn't even go to the bathroom by myself. They were just going to discharge me with nothing. No wheelchair. No physical therapy. NOTHING. Luckily, my husband called and filed the claim with our auto insurance and they sent a nurse case manager to the hospital to take care of setting up my durable equipment, ie, wheelchair, wheelchair ramp, home health care workers, visiting physical therapist, toilet, bath seat, walker etc. The hospital let me stay an extra day after she assured them that the insurance company would pay for it, so that she could get everything set up at my house for me. Now, if a person with insurance has an issue and is able to get to a doctor before the issue is out of hand, the cost to treat can be drastically reduced. Someone somewhere brought up an argument of " eugenics " , that makes me laugh. Who do you people think are the ones more likely to be without coverage? The poor. Who is more likely to live a life of poverty? Minorities, people with mental disabilities who do not qualify for disability, people who work in more blue collar jobs, single mothers with nothing more than a high school education who makes minimum wage in a dead end job trying to raise her children, etc. Yeah, deny these people medical care and let them all die off, sounds very compassionate doesn't it? Did you know that Hispanic and African American women are more likely to die of breast cancer? Why? Because they have to wait until it is an emergency before they can get care at an emergency room. They can't afford the care for their cancer and they...yep...you guessed it...they die. ---- Jim O <jimokelly@...> wrote: ============= Hi Amy Just a couple of comments. I realize this is a hot topic, so don't take anything I say personal. People who tend to believe in people instead of principals or issues will always have an argument flaring. Kind of like the Democrats and the Republicans. When a person joins a group they tend to feel more sure of themselves and sometimes back their group even if they feel they are wrong. So my thought is Who is doing the interviewing.. The Medical profession, the government or a doctor who is in government? All I know is that when I sold insurance to seniors it was very easy to persuade them. Many seniors that I talked to indicated they were ready to go. ( Probably tired of life's struggles) In the hands of people(medical) who make money off their advice and treatment. What advice do you think they would get? Actually we really don't have health care, we have disease care. Health care would involve something sensible like encouraging things like taking care of yourself, diet,exercise,fresh air if you can find any, and sunshine and positive thinking. Poisoning ones immune system and cutting out their vital organs just doesn't seem to make sense to me. When you say you see it as a right, I agree if you are adhering to the above thoughts on keeping yourself healthy, but if your saying that I should pay your bills because you don't take care of yourself and your children then we would have a strong disagreement. No government has the right to take money out of my pocket and put it in the pocket of my neighbor. I wouldn't compare anyone in our government with hilter, but I can conceive of people in and out of government that put money above human life. Whether he is like that I couldn't say, but the fact that the vaccine pushers keep causing disease,disability and death tells me there are folks like that. My take on politics is that the two partys are basically the same. They have both been selling out this country for fame and fortune since Roosevelt, maybe even before him. Jim O' Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D. Shots in body's are deadly Healthologist Graduated from the school of Hard Knocks Certified in CS not BS ________________________________ From: Sara <Sassygirl1218@...> Vaccinations@... Cc: Amy <designconceptsstudio@...> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 8:40:51 AM Subject: Re: Has anyone read this?  OMG! They are not trying to kill anyone! The end of life counseling is NOT mandatory it is OPTIONAL. The bill says that if a patient wants it, they will pay for a half hour counseling session with their doctor to make sure that what they want at the end of their lives is what they get. It is OPTIONAL for EVERYONE who wants it, not just old people. Obama is not trying to kill off granny for pete's sake! I understand that not everyone is keen on offering people a government OPTION when it comes to health care, I mean, I know that many think that health care is a priviledge, I see it as a right. But, if you have issues with the bill, READ IT YOURSELF and take issue with things that are in the actual bill and not what some side with an agenda wants you to think you should take issue with. Or listen to what all sides say about the bill then READ THOSE SECTIONS YOURSELF! As for the Hitler comparisons, for crying outloud! Hitler was a hateful man who brought his hate to his office. He used psychological means to convince Germans that the Jews were what was wrong with the country. Obama has never expressed hate toward any group of people. If anyone has tried to accomplish getting us to hate any group of people, it would have been Bush & Co. trying to encite hate and fear in us toward Iraqis and Muslims! Hitler has been dead for many years, we have learned a lot from him about how not to be, but why oh why does his name come up when anyone wants to make us fear any leader? Aye, aye aye ---- Amy <designconceptsstudi o@...> wrote: ============ = Wow! People should ask themselves how any country of people can eventually be OK with killing off others as they did in Nazi Germany??? What started it? The didn't just round up the Jews one day - a lot happened before that to prepare people for this. And these were people just like us. We are no different - EXCEPT we have the internet where information is more available. What are we going to do differently? Thanks for posting this!!! Has anyone heard of the Georgia Guidestones? http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm This lists the 10 Guides (commandments) #1: *Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.* How does one do that when the world's population is 6.7 billion now? I heard that Bill Clinton said we need to reduce the population by 1 billion. Vaccines, genetic engineered seeds, government run healthcare, auto & banking - it's all tied together and none of it is to " help " people. It is designed clearly to " hurt " and " control " . On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Maracuja <howdurdago (DOT) com> wrote: > > > This was sent to me from a friend who recently had > treatment in Ca. > > You know, there are times when I have seen that snopes is not accurate. > And this is one. > > I > have read the Bill, various links, and the link provided to the blog > with interest. One glaring sentence in the blog jumped out and it made > me cringe. > > " ... and one of the most shocking things I found in this bill - and there > were many - is on page 425 where the Congress would make it mandatory, > absolutely > required, that every five years people in Medicare have a required > counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner. > How to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go into > hospice care... " > > At the end of this quote the blogger goes on to state..... " Um, no. " > > I > am here to state, " Um, yes. " And I will tell you why. My recent visit > to the State of California, especially the hospital, was very > enlightening. I have heard that California is the first to implement > these healthcare changes. I don't know what the policy is in other > states, so I cannot say this for sure. However, I was in California. > I was in the hospital there, and what I witnessed was very disturbing. > > First > of all, when I was admitted into the hospital, they thought that there > was something seriously wrong with me. Much more serious than a > pulmonary infection and asthma. For one thing, I was put on the floor > for lung cancer patients. While there, I observed many interactions > between doctors and patients and as I felt better, I was able to walk > around and personally visit with the patients there. > > One of > the big changes coming to our country is facilitated deaths which are > to be done under the guise of hospice care. No, let me rephrase that. > The truth is that facilitated deaths are already here. I know for a > fact that it is being implemented in the State of California. > > Take > a look at the portion of the quoted text that is in bold. This is one > of the ways that they are doing it. By withholding nourishment. In a > conversation with one of the patients daughter's, hospice care came > up. Her mother happened to be my roommate. Under professional advice, > it was recommended that she put her mother in hospice. There are two > blessings in this particular situation. The first is that the daughter > elected to care for the mother at home. The second is that she had the > freedom to be able to remove her from the " hospice " situation. > > Her major complaint was that she was instructed > not to give her mother food or liquids unless she specifically asked > for them. And you know, I guess not knowing better and trusting that > these people knew what they were talking about, she complied. After > day 4 of very little to no nourishment, yes, her mother was dying. She > took one look at her and saw the drastic change, the graying skin, and > became overcome with panic. After finding it necessary to remove her > from hospice, she called an ambulance to have her brought to the > hospital. The problem was dehydration. Once hydrated, she started > eating normally and regained normal skin color. > > Through the > hospital curtain, I witnessed a conversation between the daughter and > her mother's doctor where the daughter described what had transpired > during hospice and the doctor's reply was to state that older patients > are put into hospice earlier than needed and that " hospice tends to > facilitate death. " Then he said....... " Your mom still has a lot of > life left in her. " Well, there is still honesty in the medical > profession. Some still do have a heart. > > I > am afraid that the proposals in this Bill are not only about to happen > but that they are already occurring in some parts of the country. > > Either > the blogger referenced in the prior post is grossly misinformed or she > is purposely deceiving the public. And this is mainstream medicine's > and mainstream media's main tactic. To slyly deceive the public. > > At this time more than ever we need common sense. > > > > From: Goss <natmedrocks. au <natmedrocks% 40. au>> > Subject: Has anyone read this? > Vaccinations <Vaccinations% 40groups. com> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > I received > this from the US > today > > > > Hear this > interview at this link: > > http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > google Betsy McCaughey and find > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > I'm about ready to march on Washington > .. How about you? > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > for > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > refusal > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > and on > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > illness such as cancer, > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > I copied all > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealt hcare.com<http://www.defendyo urhealthcare. com/> > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > yesterday.. > > > > Please spread > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > they > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > Heaven help us ! > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > Australia > > ____________ _________ _______ > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile. / mail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Yes I agree.... And I think it's important to realize that the people without insurance would not be in such a difficult position if they knew how to take care of themselves and did so. It is because they subscribe to the allopathic philosophy (i.e. " I can eat junk food because it is all I can afford and it doesn't matter what I eat anyway, and go to the emergency room when I am very sick to get care because I require a doctor's assistance and poisons to heal and live " ) that they suffer and die. If they simply did not have insurance but chose to live a healthy life and eat good foods (if you can't afford to buy organic, you can try to grow it yourself) they would not be sick in the first place. But, they don't have this information. So, perhaps it is STILL the government's fault and we need to educate people and allow access to actual health care -- advice about true health like getting sun, eating fresh food, etc. We should provide people with healthy food, subsidize that instead of sugar. Then maybe we'd have HEALTH CARE and poor people wouldn't be sick and we would not have any of these issues anyway. --Kate Mommy to Rebekah, 1-26-08 , 7-16-09 > > > > From: Goss <natmedrocks. au <natmedrocks% 40. au>> > > Subject: Has anyone read this? > > Vaccinations <Vaccinations% 40groups. com> > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > > > > I received > > this from the US > > today > > > > > > > > Hear this > > interview at this link: > > > > http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > > > > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > > google Betsy McCaughey and find > > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > > I'm about ready to march on Washington > > .. How about you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > > for > > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > > refusal > > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > > and on > > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > > illness such as cancer, > > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > > > > > I copied all > > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealt hcare.com<http://www.defendyo urhealthcare. com/> > > > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > > yesterday.. > > > > > > > > Please spread > > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > > they > > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > > Heaven help us ! > > > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > > Australia > > > > ____________ _________ _______ > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > > Show me how: http://au.mobile. / mail > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 If the government does not get its money through taxes where does it get the money it wants to give so everyone has insurance? What does compassion have to do with legalized theft. Those of you who want to pay for other people who don't take care of themselves should start your own pool and just give your money to those who need it. If government only took care of real problems like congenital birth disease, and not all those ignorant freeloaders who run to the emergency room every time they sneezed it might not be such a big and expensive deal. But than if that was the case insurance would be affordable to most. Sorry I don't buy your excuses. In America every human being has an opportunity to learn and advance themselves. I am sick and tired of the excuses people make for their failures in life. America is behind in education and low on the totem poll because most folks think that the good life is all about watching TV and sitting on their heavy behinds doing nothing. And you know for all the poor folks who have no chance, guess what there is a library in every town and that;s free to all. Americans simply need to grow up and stop whining. This country is in serious trouble because we have let our government take care of every crybaby in the world and we have refused to take responsibility for our selves. Jim ________________________________ From: Sara <Sassygirl1218@...> Vaccinations Cc: Jim O <jimokelly@...> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:21:24 AM Subject: Re: Has anyone read this? " When you say you see it as a right, I agree if you are adhering to the above thoughts on keeping yourself healthy, but if your saying that I should pay your bills because you don't take care of yourself and your children then we would have a strong disagreement. No government has the right to take money out of my pocket and put it in the pocket of my neighbor. " No one is going to take your money and put it in the pocket of your neighbor. If you can't look at this as a compassion thing, I mean those damn kids who need organ transplants should have been fortunate enough to have been born into money, look at it as a money saving issue. What do you mean by that, Sara? Good question. Let me explain, although, it would be much easier to do with a flow chart, but alas, I will do my best: People who do not have health insurance will wait until an issue is out of control to get help. They can't afford a doctor visit, so they go to the ER. They now need to be admitted and be provided with extensive care. When they are discharged, they can not afford their bill, so they don't pay, or they file for bankruptcy. Either way, the hospital does not get paid. So.....the hospital has to raise prices for care to recoup the loss. Insurance companies are businesses and when the hospital raises prices to recoup their loss, they lose out on profit. This will not please investors, so the insurance company raises it's premiums, co-pays, deductibles, or drop people from their rolls, which they do on a daily basis. So now you and I are the ones paying for this care. I don't know about you, but my co-pays have doubled for ER visits. My co-pays for prescriptions have gone up and our deductible has gone up to $5000 for the family. We still have a hard time paying for our care, even with what is considered good coverage. Even if you don't agree with the disease care, what about injuries? My hospital stay alone after being hit by a car was $110,000, which ONLY covers the room and nursing care. The operating room was extra. The surgery was extra. The doctors were, you guessed it, extra. The physical therapists who came to my room, extra. When I left, my costs were over $200,000! My rehabilitative costs were double that! When I got to the hospital, they pulled the wrong insurance card from my wallet, my husband's company switched coverage one week before and I still had my old card. They found out that the policy was expired and they were ready to minimize the care I was going to receive! My husband then informed them that I did in fact have coverage and they went all out for me. We did not know that we could file an auto claim for the accident, as I was not driving or even in a car, so we didn't do that at first. The hospital said that my insurance company had determined my stay was long enough and they were ready to discharge me. I could barely sit up. I had a halo drilled into my head. I could not walk. I still had staples in my leg from my surgery. I couldn't even go to the bathroom by myself. They were just going to discharge me with nothing. No wheelchair. No physical therapy. NOTHING. Luckily, my husband called and filed the claim with our auto insurance and they sent a nurse case manager to the hospital to take care of setting up my durable equipment, ie, wheelchair, wheelchair ramp, home health care workers, visiting physical therapist, toilet, bath seat, walker etc. The hospital let me stay an extra day after she assured them that the insurance company would pay for it, so that she could get everything set up at my house for me. Now, if a person with insurance has an issue and is able to get to a doctor before the issue is out of hand, the cost to treat can be drastically reduced. Someone somewhere brought up an argument of " eugenics " , that makes me laugh. Who do you people think are the ones more likely to be without coverage? The poor. Who is more likely to live a life of poverty? Minorities, people with mental disabilities who do not qualify for disability, people who work in more blue collar jobs, single mothers with nothing more than a high school education who makes minimum wage in a dead end job trying to raise her children, etc. Yeah, deny these people medical care and let them all die off, sounds very compassionate doesn't it? Did you know that Hispanic and African American women are more likely to die of breast cancer? Why? Because they have to wait until it is an emergency before they can get care at an emergency room. They can't afford the care for their cancer and they...yep.. .you guessed it...they die. ---- Jim O <jimokelly (DOT) com> wrote: ============ = Hi Amy Just a couple of comments. I realize this is a hot topic, so don't take anything I say personal. People who tend to believe in people instead of principals or issues will always have an argument flaring. Kind of like the Democrats and the Republicans. When a person joins a group they tend to feel more sure of themselves and sometimes back their group even if they feel they are wrong. So my thought is Who is doing the interviewing.. . The Medical profession, the government or a doctor who is in government? All I know is that when I sold insurance to seniors it was very easy to persuade them. Many seniors that I talked to indicated they were ready to go. ( Probably tired of life's struggles) In the hands of people(medical) who make money off their advice and treatment. What advice do you think they would get? Actually we really don't have health care, we have disease care. Health care would involve something sensible like encouraging things like taking care of yourself, diet,exercise, fresh air if you can find any, and sunshine and positive thinking. Poisoning ones immune system and cutting out their vital organs just doesn't seem to make sense to me. When you say you see it as a right, I agree if you are adhering to the above thoughts on keeping yourself healthy, but if your saying that I should pay your bills because you don't take care of yourself and your children then we would have a strong disagreement. No government has the right to take money out of my pocket and put it in the pocket of my neighbor. I wouldn't compare anyone in our government with hilter, but I can conceive of people in and out of government that put money above human life. Whether he is like that I couldn't say, but the fact that the vaccine pushers keep causing disease,disability and death tells me there are folks like that. My take on politics is that the two partys are basically the same. They have both been selling out this country for fame and fortune since Roosevelt, maybe even before him. Jim O' Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D. Shots in body's are deadly Healthologist Graduated from the school of Hard Knocks Certified in CS not BS ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Sara <Sassygirl1218@ charter.net> Vaccinations@ groups. .com Cc: Amy <designconceptsstudi o@...> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 8:40:51 AM Subject: Re: Has anyone read this? OMG! They are not trying to kill anyone! The end of life counseling is NOT mandatory it is OPTIONAL. The bill says that if a patient wants it, they will pay for a half hour counseling session with their doctor to make sure that what they want at the end of their lives is what they get. It is OPTIONAL for EVERYONE who wants it, not just old people. Obama is not trying to kill off granny for pete's sake! I understand that not everyone is keen on offering people a government OPTION when it comes to health care, I mean, I know that many think that health care is a priviledge, I see it as a right. But, if you have issues with the bill, READ IT YOURSELF and take issue with things that are in the actual bill and not what some side with an agenda wants you to think you should take issue with. Or listen to what all sides say about the bill then READ THOSE SECTIONS YOURSELF! As for the Hitler comparisons, for crying outloud! Hitler was a hateful man who brought his hate to his office. He used psychological means to convince Germans that the Jews were what was wrong with the country. Obama has never expressed hate toward any group of people. If anyone has tried to accomplish getting us to hate any group of people, it would have been Bush & Co. trying to encite hate and fear in us toward Iraqis and Muslims! Hitler has been dead for many years, we have learned a lot from him about how not to be, but why oh why does his name come up when anyone wants to make us fear any leader? Aye, aye aye ---- Amy <designconceptsstud i o@...> wrote: ============ = Wow! People should ask themselves how any country of people can eventually be OK with killing off others as they did in Nazi Germany??? What started it? The didn't just round up the Jews one day - a lot happened before that to prepare people for this. And these were people just like us. We are no different - EXCEPT we have the internet where information is more available. What are we going to do differently? Thanks for posting this!!! Has anyone heard of the Georgia Guidestones? http://www.radiolib erty.com/ stones.htm This lists the 10 Guides (commandments) #1: *Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.* How does one do that when the world's population is 6.7 billion now? I heard that Bill Clinton said we need to reduce the population by 1 billion. Vaccines, genetic engineered seeds, government run healthcare, auto & banking - it's all tied together and none of it is to " help " people. It is designed clearly to " hurt " and " control " . On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Maracuja <howdurdago@ . com> wrote: > > > This was sent to me from a friend who recently had > treatment in Ca. > > You know, there are times when I have seen that snopes is not accurate. > And this is one. > > I > have read the Bill, various links, and the link provided to the blog > with interest. One glaring sentence in the blog jumped out and it made > me cringe. > > " ... and one of the most shocking things I found in this bill - and there > were many - is on page 425 where the Congress would make it mandatory, > absolutely > required, that every five years people in Medicare have a required > counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner. > How to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go into > hospice care... " > > At the end of this quote the blogger goes on to state..... " Um, no. " > > I > am here to state, " Um, yes. " And I will tell you why. My recent visit > to the State of California, especially the hospital, was very > enlightening. I have heard that California is the first to implement > these healthcare changes. I don't know what the policy is in other > states, so I cannot say this for sure. However, I was in California. > I was in the hospital there, and what I witnessed was very disturbing. > > First > of all, when I was admitted into the hospital, they thought that there > was something seriously wrong with me. Much more serious than a > pulmonary infection and asthma. For one thing, I was put on the floor > for lung cancer patients. While there, I observed many interactions > between doctors and patients and as I felt better, I was able to walk > around and personally visit with the patients there. > > One of > the big changes coming to our country is facilitated deaths which are > to be done under the guise of hospice care. No, let me rephrase that. > The truth is that facilitated deaths are already here. I know for a > fact that it is being implemented in the State of California. > > Take > a look at the portion of the quoted text that is in bold. This is one > of the ways that they are doing it. By withholding nourishment. In a > conversation with one of the patients daughter's, hospice care came > up. Her mother happened to be my roommate. Under professional advice, > it was recommended that she put her mother in hospice. There are two > blessings in this particular situation. The first is that the daughter > elected to care for the mother at home. The second is that she had the > freedom to be able to remove her from the " hospice " situation. > > Her major complaint was that she was instructed > not to give her mother food or liquids unless she specifically asked > for them. And you know, I guess not knowing better and trusting that > these people knew what they were talking about, she complied. After > day 4 of very little to no nourishment, yes, her mother was dying. She > took one look at her and saw the drastic change, the graying skin, and > became overcome with panic. After finding it necessary to remove her > from hospice, she called an ambulance to have her brought to the > hospital. The problem was dehydration. Once hydrated, she started > eating normally and regained normal skin color. > > Through the > hospital curtain, I witnessed a conversation between the daughter and > her mother's doctor where the daughter described what had transpired > during hospice and the doctor's reply was to state that older patients > are put into hospice earlier than needed and that " hospice tends to > facilitate death. " Then he said....... " Your mom still has a lot of > life left in her. " Well, there is still honesty in the medical > profession. Some still do have a heart. > > I > am afraid that the proposals in this Bill are not only about to happen > but that they are already occurring in some parts of the country. > > Either > the blogger referenced in the prior post is grossly misinformed or she > is purposely deceiving the public. And this is mainstream medicine's > and mainstream media's main tactic. To slyly deceive the public. > > At this time more than ever we need common sense. > > > > From: Goss <natmedrocks. au <natmedrocks% 40. au>> > Subject: Has anyone read this? > Vaccinations <Vaccinations% 40groups. com> > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > I received > this from the US > today > > > > Hear this > interview at this link: > > http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > google Betsy McCaughey and find > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > I'm about ready to march on Washington > .. How about you? > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > for > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > refusal > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > and on > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > illness such as cancer, > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > I copied all > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealt hcare.com<http://www.defendyo urhealthcare. com/> > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > yesterday.. > > > > Please spread > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > they > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > Heaven help us ! > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > Australia > > ____________ _________ _______ > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > Show me how: http://au.mobile. / mail > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Jim, I agree with everything you are saying. I'm for individual liberty and responsibility! Liberty is balanced by responsibility so if people don't want to be responsible for themselves (putting their expenses on the backs of others & expecting some else to provide for their care), then they also need to be prepared to lose a certain amount of their liberty. It only makes sense. I know we have disease care, not health care. My personal doctor is an alternative minded man and I have spent more time working on my healthcare through a program at my chiropractor's office - preventative care (diet & supplements). I love to have doctors for getting a diagnosis, but I would rarely take any drugs they want to prescribe. Because this type of care is not covered on any insurance plan, I paid out of pocket. I am NOT for anyone paying my bills and I don't want anyone expecting me to pay their bills. If I said something that indicated that, I'm sorry - I'm against any redistribution of wealth. My point about Hilter is simple. I was just saying that people there didn't one day decide to kill off millions of Jews. Something happened to take people on a journey to doing the inconceivable. I'm asking the question: Are we on that same journey or a similar journey and is national health care a vehicle towards that? I agree with you on politics here too. I'm not for either party. But, Keynesian economics doesn't work (which is what Obama is doing). Price fixing is the start of a dangerous slope! History IS repeating itself!!! *How will our economy work without economic calculation?* http://socialism-ontherise.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-will-our-economy-work-withou\ t.html *The illustrated Road to Serfdom *The book was originally published by Routledge Press in March 1944 in the UK and then by the University of Chicago in September 1944. In April, 1945, Reader's Digest published a slightly shortened version of the book (still in print from the Institute of Economic Affairs), which eventually reached more than 600,000 readers. Around 1950 a picture-book version was published in Look Magazine, later made into a pamphlet and distributed by General Motors. http://mises.org/books/TRTS/ *This is a condensed and abridged version of the Road to Serfdom* http://jim.com/hayek.htm On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Jim O <jimokelly@...> wrote: > > > Hi Amy > > Just a couple of comments. I realize this is a hot topic, so don't take > anything I say personal. People who tend to believe in people instead of > principals or issues will always have an argument flaring. Kind of like the > Democrats and the Republicans. When a person joins a group they tend to feel > more sure of themselves and sometimes back their group even if they feel > they are wrong. > > So my thought is Who is doing the interviewing.. The Medical profession, > the government or a doctor who is in government? All I know is that when I > sold insurance to seniors it was very easy to persuade them. > Many seniors that I talked to indicated they were ready to go. ( Probably > tired of life's struggles) In the hands of people(medical) who make money > off their advice and treatment. What advice do you think they would get? > > Actually we really don't have health care, we have disease care. Health > care would involve something sensible like encouraging things like taking > care of yourself, diet,exercise,fresh air if you can find any, and sunshine > and positive thinking. Poisoning ones immune system and cutting out their > vital organs just doesn't seem to make sense to me. > > When you say you see it as a right, I agree if you are adhering to the > above thoughts on keeping yourself healthy, but if your saying that I should > pay your bills because you don't take care of yourself and your children > then we would have a strong disagreement. No government has the right to > take money out of my pocket and put it in the pocket of my neighbor. > > I wouldn't compare anyone in our government with hilter, but I can conceive > of people in and out of government that put money above human life. Whether > he is like that I couldn't say, but the fact that the vaccine pushers keep > causing disease,disability and death tells me there are folks like that. > > My take on politics is that the two partys are basically the same. They > have both been selling out this country for fame and fortune since > Roosevelt, maybe even before him. > > Jim O' > Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D. > Shots in body's are deadly > > Healthologist > Graduated from the school of Hard Knocks > Certified in CS not BS > > ________________________________ > From: Sara <Sassygirl1218@... <Sassygirl1218%40charter.net>> > Vaccinations@... <Vaccinations%40groups..com> > Cc: Amy <designconceptsstudio@...<designconceptsstudio%40gmail.com> > > > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 8:40:51 AM > Subject: Re: Has anyone read this? > > > OMG! They are not trying to kill anyone! The end of life counseling is NOT > mandatory it is OPTIONAL. The bill says that if a patient wants it, they > will pay for a half hour counseling session with their doctor to make sure > that what they want at the end of their lives is what they get. It is > OPTIONAL for EVERYONE who wants it, not just old people. Obama is not trying > to kill off granny for pete's sake! > > I understand that not everyone is keen on offering people a government > OPTION when it comes to health care, I mean, I know that many think that > health care is a priviledge, I see it as a right. But, if you have issues > with the bill, READ IT YOURSELF and take issue with things that are in the > actual bill and not what some side with an agenda wants you to think you > should take issue with. Or listen to what all sides say about the bill then > READ THOSE SECTIONS YOURSELF! > > As for the Hitler comparisons, for crying outloud! Hitler was a hateful man > who brought his hate to his office. He used psychological means to convince > Germans that the Jews were what was wrong with the country. Obama has never > expressed hate toward any group of people. If anyone has tried to accomplish > getting us to hate any group of people, it would have been Bush & Co. trying > to encite hate and fear in us toward Iraqis and Muslims! > > Hitler has been dead for many years, we have learned a lot from him about > how not to be, but why oh why does his name come up when anyone wants to > make us fear any leader? Aye, aye aye > > ---- Amy <designconceptsstudi o@... <o%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > ============ = > Wow! People should ask themselves how any country of people can eventually > be OK with killing off others as they did in Nazi Germany??? What started > it? The didn't just round up the Jews one day - a lot happened before that > to prepare people for this. And these were people just like us. We are no > different - EXCEPT we have the internet where information is more > available. What are we going to do differently? > > Thanks for posting this!!! Has anyone heard of the Georgia Guidestones? > http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm > > This lists the 10 Guides (commandments) #1: *Maintain humanity under > 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.* > How does one do that when the world's population is 6.7 billion now? I > heard that Bill Clinton said we need to reduce the population by 1 billion. > > Vaccines, genetic engineered seeds, government run healthcare, auto & > banking - it's all tied together and none of it is to " help " people. It is > designed clearly to " hurt " and " control " . > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Maracuja <howdurdago (DOT) com> wrote: > > > > > > > This was sent to me from a friend who recently had > > treatment in Ca. > > > > You know, there are times when I have seen that snopes is not accurate. > > And this is one. > > > > I > > have read the Bill, various links, and the link provided to the blog > > with interest. One glaring sentence in the blog jumped out and it made > > me cringe. > > > > " ... and one of the most shocking things I found in this bill - and there > > were many - is on page 425 where the Congress would make it mandatory, > > absolutely > > required, that every five years people in Medicare have a required > > counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner. > > How to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go into > > hospice care... " > > > > At the end of this quote the blogger goes on to state..... " Um, no. " > > > > I > > am here to state, " Um, yes. " And I will tell you why. My recent visit > > to the State of California, especially the hospital, was very > > enlightening. I have heard that California is the first to implement > > these healthcare changes. I don't know what the policy is in other > > states, so I cannot say this for sure. However, I was in California. > > I was in the hospital there, and what I witnessed was very disturbing. > > > > First > > of all, when I was admitted into the hospital, they thought that there > > was something seriously wrong with me. Much more serious than a > > pulmonary infection and asthma. For one thing, I was put on the floor > > for lung cancer patients. While there, I observed many interactions > > between doctors and patients and as I felt better, I was able to walk > > around and personally visit with the patients there. > > > > One of > > the big changes coming to our country is facilitated deaths which are > > to be done under the guise of hospice care. No, let me rephrase that. > > The truth is that facilitated deaths are already here. I know for a > > fact that it is being implemented in the State of California. > > > > Take > > a look at the portion of the quoted text that is in bold. This is one > > of the ways that they are doing it. By withholding nourishment. In a > > conversation with one of the patients daughter's, hospice care came > > up. Her mother happened to be my roommate. Under professional advice, > > it was recommended that she put her mother in hospice. There are two > > blessings in this particular situation. The first is that the daughter > > elected to care for the mother at home. The second is that she had the > > freedom to be able to remove her from the " hospice " situation. > > > > Her major complaint was that she was instructed > > not to give her mother food or liquids unless she specifically asked > > for them. And you know, I guess not knowing better and trusting that > > these people knew what they were talking about, she complied. After > > day 4 of very little to no nourishment, yes, her mother was dying. She > > took one look at her and saw the drastic change, the graying skin, and > > became overcome with panic. After finding it necessary to remove her > > from hospice, she called an ambulance to have her brought to the > > hospital. The problem was dehydration. Once hydrated, she started > > eating normally and regained normal skin color. > > > > Through the > > hospital curtain, I witnessed a conversation between the daughter and > > her mother's doctor where the daughter described what had transpired > > during hospice and the doctor's reply was to state that older patients > > are put into hospice earlier than needed and that " hospice tends to > > facilitate death. " Then he said....... " Your mom still has a lot of > > life left in her. " Well, there is still honesty in the medical > > profession. Some still do have a heart. > > > > I > > am afraid that the proposals in this Bill are not only about to happen > > but that they are already occurring in some parts of the country. > > > > Either > > the blogger referenced in the prior post is grossly misinformed or she > > is purposely deceiving the public. And this is mainstream medicine's > > and mainstream media's main tactic. To slyly deceive the public. > > > > At this time more than ever we need common sense. > > > > > > > > From: Goss <natmedrocks. au <natmedrocks% 40. > au>> > > Subject: Has anyone read this? > > Vaccinations <Vaccinations% 40groups. com> > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:10 PM > > > > > > I received > > this from the US > > today > > > > > > > > Hear this > > interview at this link: > > > > http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > > > > > > > PLEASE READ ALL. > > THIS IS SCAREY. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't believe this, then > > google Betsy McCaughey and find > > her article in the Wall Street Journal. > > I'm about ready to march on Washington > > .. How about you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we ready to allow this? > > > > > > > > > > > > Betsy McCaughey > > (pronounced McCoy) who is the former Lt. Gov. of New York and is devoting > > her life right now to telling the truth about Obama and his health-care > > bill. I went to the site and listened to the audio from his show with > > Betsy and she had read page 425 and 426 of the bill and (sit down) > > it states that all Social Security recipients will be required to report > > for > > counseling every 5 years where they will be encouraged to learn about > > and consider for themselves assisted suicide, refusal of advanced care, > > refusal > > of nutrition, encouragement of hospice care only with certain conditions > > and on > > and on. If a person is identified to have a serious > > illness such as cancer, > > heart disease and so on, then they will have to report > > every year for counseling about how to end their lives the quickest and > > cheapest way. Also, SS members and seriously ill folks will be forbidden > > to pay more out of their own pockets for extra treatments. > > > > > > > > I copied all > > this down and wrote down the web address as http://tinyurl. com/mcmq6h > > .. Also look at www.Defendyourhealt hcare.com<http://www.defendyourhealthcare. com/> > > > > for more info. I am not dreaming this, this was on national radio > > yesterday.. > > > > > > > > Please spread > > the word. I just called Senator Hutchison's office and talked to the > > person there and asked her if they were aware of this and they said yes, > > they > > knew about it and people were calling all day long. May the Lord in > > Heaven help us ! > > > > - G'mother of 4 - Qld > > Australia > > > > ____________ _________ _______ > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > Access 7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. > > Show me how: http://au.mobile. / mail > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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