Re: Japanese measles epidemic

[Guest guest]

I don't know what to think!

Was the outbreak really started by wild measles, or was it started by a newly

vaccinated person would be my first question.

Which is a rather moot question, since it doesn't really matter how it started,

it matters that they are so afraid of it and that 88 people have died !

Not sure what to think, it does shake my faith in going non-vax.

Looking for all thoughts as well.

in Colorado

carly10475 <poppetspaws@...> wrote:

Would be interested in any thoughts on this one? Do you think this

means that our double vaxing for measles means we have far less

mealses; as opposed to Japan?

*****************************************************************

Japanese measles epidemic brings campuses to standstill

Norrie in Tokyo

May 27, 2007 - 4:54PM

A rampant measles epidemic has infected hundreds of Japanese

students and frightened Tokyo universities and schools into sending

more than 160,000 students home.

In just a few days the highly contagious illness has spread

virulently from Tokyo to outlying areas, affecting potentially

thousands of people in their late teens and 20s.

The epidemic, believed to be Japan's worst in at least five years,

has brought campuses to a standstill for more than a week. An

unknown number of people have been hospitalised.

On Sunday, Tokyo's Hosei University announced it was closing a

second of its three campuses for eight days after 14 students were

confirmed to have the illness. The university closed another campus

last Thursday.

About a dozen universities in the Tokyo area, together with a

handful of other schools around the country, have suspended classes

since mid-April because of measles outbreaks, according to media

reports.

The National Institute of Infectious Diseases (NIID) said 623 people

are known to have contracted the illness between February 27 and May

27, compared to only 18 during the same period last year.

The reasons why this year's outbreak has been so severe were not

immediately clear. The Asahi Shimbun newspaper, citing unidentified

experts, said a previous decline in the number of measles outbreaks

may have lessened the efficacy of childhood vaccinations among the

students, as exposure to the virus strengthens their effect.

NIID said April to June were likely to be peak months for the virus

to spread because of the concentration of graduation and

matriculation ceremonies during that time.

The Japanese school year ends in March and resumes in April.

Health authorities are stunned at the rapid spread of the illness,

which usually affects infants and only rarely strikes people in

their 20s and older. Most Japanese in that age group have only been

vaccinated once.

Yoshinori Yasui, chief researcher at the NIID, said the problem was

that " young people are considerably active during the incubation

period between infection and the appearance of the rash, helping the

virus to spread widely " .

Measles is passed on by coughing and sneezing. It causes pneumonia

in one out of 20 cases, and brain inflammation and death in one out

of every 1000.

Japan is the only developed country to still experience large

measles epidemics. The US, which introduced a double vaccination

program in 1989, and Australia, which phased in a booster shot for

measles from 1994, have largely eradicated the disease.

In Japan, however, the government bowed to strong public pressure in

1994 by repealing laws that made childhood immunisations mandatory.

In 2000 there were an estimated 200,000 cases of measles and 88

deaths.

It was only last April that the National Institute of Infectious

Diseases introduced a double vaccination program. But it would take

at least a decade before the results of that could be seen,

predicted Tatsuo Kato, president at the National Centre for Child

Health and Development.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has described

Japan as a " measles exporter " , because it brings the illness into

the US more frequently than any other country.

In an editorial this week, The Asahi Shimbun called on the

government " to show that it is committed to eliminating measles from

this country " and " ridding Japan of the 'measles exporter' status as

soon as possible " .

" In a survey conducted last autumn, the inoculation rate for 1-year-

olds was adequate, but the rate for the second shot was quite poor.

It is necessary to make people, particularly parents, aware of the

necessity and importance of double vaccinations. "

In Tokyo, Waseda University suspended almost all classes for more

than a week and sent home 55,000 undergraduate and graduate students

when 30 people were diagnosed with measles. Nihon University ordered

27,000 students home until the end of next week after 91 students

contracted the disease. More than 10 other campuses have also shut

their doors.

By last Friday almost 300 students at 104 Tokyo schools were

diagnosed with measles, forcing the closure of nine schools. The

number of students affected is now believed to be considerably

higher.

The illness is spreading to outer areas, such as Chiba, where at

least 350 university and school students have contracted it, and

Saitama, where a university has reported cases among its candidature.

The World Health Organisation aims to eliminate measles from the

Western Pacific area, including Japan, by 2012.

- with AP

[Guest guest]

As with any reports of deaths from diseases, we never get the full picture.

WHAT was the health of these 88 people before getting the measles? Did they

have chronic health issues already? HOW were they treated for the measles,

allopathically no doubt. It's more likely than not NOT the disease that

kills a person, but the treatment of the disease. We KNOW what suppression

does to a person who is ill. So why do we scratch our heads when someone

dies of any illness at the hands of allopathic medicine?

Treatment with Vit A has been documented to be highly effective in treating

measles: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations4.html ,

not to mention Vit C therapy: http://www.whale.to/m/measles.html ,

and of course homeopathy: http://www.whale.to/m/measles3.html

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> Which is a rather moot question, since it doesn't really matter how it

> started, it matters that they are so afraid of it and that 88 people have

> died !

>

> Not sure what to think, it does shake my faith in going non-vax.

>

> Looking for all thoughts as well.

>

> in Colorado

> >

[Guest guest]

WEre they vaccinated?

often, 1/3 of those affected by the disease are fully

vaxed, 1/3 are partially vaxed and 1/3 are not vaxed.

Just ballpark figures. But the outbreak and deaths

are used to scare people into vaccinating.

--- Kay <dr-ky@...> wrote:

> As with any reports of deaths from diseases, we

> never get the full picture.

> WHAT was the health of these 88 people before

> getting the measles? Did they

> have chronic health issues already? HOW were they

> treated for the measles,

> allopathically no doubt. It's more likely than not

> NOT the disease that

> kills a person, but the treatment of the disease.

> We KNOW what suppression

> does to a person who is ill. So why do we scratch

> our heads when someone

> dies of any illness at the hands of allopathic

> medicine?

>

> Treatment with Vit A has been documented to be

> highly effective in treating

> measles:

> http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations4.html ,

>

> not to mention Vit C therapy:

> http://www.whale.to/m/measles.html ,

>

> and of course homeopathy:

> http://www.whale.to/m/measles3.html

>

>

> Kay

>

>

> Re: Japanese measles

> epidemic

>

>

> > Which is a rather moot question, since it doesn't

> really matter how it

> > started, it matters that they are so afraid of it

> and that 88 people have

> > died !

> >

> > Not sure what to think, it does shake my faith in

> going non-vax.

> >

> > Looking for all thoughts as well.

> >

> > in Colorado

> > >

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____Sick sense of humor? Visit TV's

Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

http://tv./collections/222

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this Kay! This reminds me of my question about how to obtain Vit C

therapy in the event of accute infection. I talked to my Naturopath about it and

he has never done it nor knows of anyone who does. So my question to everyone on

this list is have you found someone that can render Vit C therapy? If yes & no,

what info have you come across in your search?

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Kay <dr-ky@...> wrote:

As with any reports of deaths from diseases, we never get the full

picture.

WHAT was the health of these 88 people before getting the measles? Did they

have chronic health issues already? HOW were they treated for the measles,

allopathically no doubt. It's more likely than not NOT the disease that

kills a person, but the treatment of the disease. We KNOW what suppression

does to a person who is ill. So why do we scratch our heads when someone

dies of any illness at the hands of allopathic medicine?

Treatment with Vit A has been documented to be highly effective in treating

measles: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations4.html ,

not to mention Vit C therapy: http://www.whale.to/m/measles.html ,

and of course homeopathy: http://www.whale.to/m/measles3.html

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> Which is a rather moot question, since it doesn't really matter how it

> started, it matters that they are so afraid of it and that 88 people have

> died !

>

> Not sure what to think, it does shake my faith in going non-vax.

>

> Looking for all thoughts as well.

>

> in Colorado

> >

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, I forgot that important detail in my previous post. Of course

they're trying to show the Japanese the error of their ways since they

conveniently brought this up in the article:

" Japan is the only developed country to still experience large

measles epidemics. The US, which introduced a double vaccination

program in 1989, and Australia, which phased in a booster shot for

measles from 1994, have largely eradicated the disease.

In Japan, however, the government bowed to strong public pressure in

1994 by repealing laws that made childhood immunisations mandatory.

In 2000 there were an estimated 200,000 cases of measles and 88

deaths. "

Scare tactics...

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> WEre they vaccinated?

>

> often, 1/3 of those affected by the disease are fully

> vaxed, 1/3 are partially vaxed and 1/3 are not vaxed.

> Just ballpark figures. But the outbreak and deaths

> are used to scare people into vaccinating.

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, I forgot that important detail in my previous post. Of course

they're trying to show the Japanese the error of their ways since they

conveniently brought this up in the article:

" Japan is the only developed country to still experience large

measles epidemics. The US, which introduced a double vaccination

program in 1989, and Australia, which phased in a booster shot for

measles from 1994, have largely eradicated the disease.

In Japan, however, the government bowed to strong public pressure in

1994 by repealing laws that made childhood immunisations mandatory.

In 2000 there were an estimated 200,000 cases of measles and 88

deaths. "

Scare tactics...

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> WEre they vaccinated?

>

> often, 1/3 of those affected by the disease are fully

> vaxed, 1/3 are partially vaxed and 1/3 are not vaxed.

> Just ballpark figures. But the outbreak and deaths

> are used to scare people into vaccinating.

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, I forgot that important detail in my previous post. Of course

they're trying to show the Japanese the error of their ways since they

conveniently brought this up in the article:

" Japan is the only developed country to still experience large

measles epidemics. The US, which introduced a double vaccination

program in 1989, and Australia, which phased in a booster shot for

measles from 1994, have largely eradicated the disease.

In Japan, however, the government bowed to strong public pressure in

1994 by repealing laws that made childhood immunisations mandatory.

In 2000 there were an estimated 200,000 cases of measles and 88

deaths. "

Scare tactics...

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> WEre they vaccinated?

>

> often, 1/3 of those affected by the disease are fully

> vaxed, 1/3 are partially vaxed and 1/3 are not vaxed.

> Just ballpark figures. But the outbreak and deaths

> are used to scare people into vaccinating.

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, I forgot that important detail in my previous post. Of course

they're trying to show the Japanese the error of their ways since they

conveniently brought this up in the article:

" Japan is the only developed country to still experience large

measles epidemics. The US, which introduced a double vaccination

program in 1989, and Australia, which phased in a booster shot for

measles from 1994, have largely eradicated the disease.

In Japan, however, the government bowed to strong public pressure in

1994 by repealing laws that made childhood immunisations mandatory.

In 2000 there were an estimated 200,000 cases of measles and 88

deaths. "

Scare tactics...

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> WEre they vaccinated?

>

> often, 1/3 of those affected by the disease are fully

> vaxed, 1/3 are partially vaxed and 1/3 are not vaxed.

> Just ballpark figures. But the outbreak and deaths

> are used to scare people into vaccinating.

[Guest guest]

Please don't let this shake your faith in not vaccinating. You just

have to have the right things to fight disease with. We use Young

Living Essential Oils in our home for everything. I can send you

some pictures of things we have used them for. Befor and after

picturs. I wouldn't be afraid of any disease, fever, infection

ect,ect because we have the right things with the oils to fight it

with. Please go to http://www.youngliving.us/ My member # is 808190.

But please call me and ask any questions. My name is Elissa My

phone # is 631-385-2168. This company is wonderful because your up

line also helps with any questions you have. That why they set the

company up the way they did. We just want to get the word out that

there is natural ways to fight everything. These oils are 100%

thereputic grade. No alcohal fillers. You can ingest all but 2 of

these oils. There is a lot of companies out there that make claims

that there products work so its hard to decide on things like this.

Believe me my dad has tried them ALL!! These oils are the most

amazing things we have ever found. God put us on this earth. He

knew there would be disease. Do you think he left us with nothing

to fight them with??? Not at all!! I have felt the way you are

right now many times till we found Young Living.

Hope this helps. Please anyone wanting more info please call or e-

mail me.

cattails3@...

Elissa

> Would be interested in any thoughts on this one? Do you

think this

> means that our double vaxing for measles means we have far less

> mealses; as opposed to Japan?

>

> *****************************************************************

>

> Japanese measles epidemic brings campuses to standstill

>

> Norrie in Tokyo

> May 27, 2007 - 4:54PM

>

> A rampant measles epidemic has infected hundreds of Japanese

> students and frightened Tokyo universities and schools into sending

> more than 160,000 students home.

>

> In just a few days the highly contagious illness has spread

> virulently from Tokyo to outlying areas, affecting potentially

> thousands of people in their late teens and 20s.

>

> The epidemic, believed to be Japan's worst in at least five years,

> has brought campuses to a standstill for more than a week. An

> unknown number of people have been hospitalised.

>

> On Sunday, Tokyo's Hosei University announced it was closing a

> second of its three campuses for eight days after 14 students were

> confirmed to have the illness. The university closed another campus

> last Thursday.

>

> About a dozen universities in the Tokyo area, together with a

> handful of other schools around the country, have suspended classes

> since mid-April because of measles outbreaks, according to media

> reports.

>

> The National Institute of Infectious Diseases (NIID) said 623

people

> are known to have contracted the illness between February 27 and

May

> 27, compared to only 18 during the same period last year.

>

> The reasons why this year's outbreak has been so severe were not

> immediately clear. The Asahi Shimbun newspaper, citing unidentified

> experts, said a previous decline in the number of measles outbreaks

> may have lessened the efficacy of childhood vaccinations among the

> students, as exposure to the virus strengthens their effect.

>

> NIID said April to June were likely to be peak months for the virus

> to spread because of the concentration of graduation and

> matriculation ceremonies during that time.

>

> The Japanese school year ends in March and resumes in April.

>

> Health authorities are stunned at the rapid spread of the illness,

> which usually affects infants and only rarely strikes people in

> their 20s and older. Most Japanese in that age group have only been

> vaccinated once.

>

> Yoshinori Yasui, chief researcher at the NIID, said the problem was

> that " young people are considerably active during the incubation

> period between infection and the appearance of the rash, helping

the

> virus to spread widely " .

>

> Measles is passed on by coughing and sneezing. It causes pneumonia

> in one out of 20 cases, and brain inflammation and death in one out

> of every 1000.

>

> Japan is the only developed country to still experience large

> measles epidemics. The US, which introduced a double vaccination

> program in 1989, and Australia, which phased in a booster shot for

> measles from 1994, have largely eradicated the disease.

>

> In Japan, however, the government bowed to strong public pressure

in

> 1994 by repealing laws that made childhood immunisations mandatory.

> In 2000 there were an estimated 200,000 cases of measles and 88

> deaths.

>

> It was only last April that the National Institute of Infectious

> Diseases introduced a double vaccination program. But it would take

> at least a decade before the results of that could be seen,

> predicted Tatsuo Kato, president at the National Centre for Child

> Health and Development.

>

> The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has described

> Japan as a " measles exporter " , because it brings the illness into

> the US more frequently than any other country.

>

> In an editorial this week, The Asahi Shimbun called on the

> government " to show that it is committed to eliminating measles

from

> this country " and " ridding Japan of the 'measles exporter' status

as

> soon as possible " .

>

> " In a survey conducted last autumn, the inoculation rate for 1-year-

> olds was adequate, but the rate for the second shot was quite poor.

> It is necessary to make people, particularly parents, aware of the

> necessity and importance of double vaccinations. "

>

> In Tokyo, Waseda University suspended almost all classes for more

> than a week and sent home 55,000 undergraduate and graduate

students

> when 30 people were diagnosed with measles. Nihon University

ordered

> 27,000 students home until the end of next week after 91 students

> contracted the disease. More than 10 other campuses have also shut

> their doors.

>

> By last Friday almost 300 students at 104 Tokyo schools were

> diagnosed with measles, forcing the closure of nine schools. The

> number of students affected is now believed to be considerably

> higher.

>

> The illness is spreading to outer areas, such as Chiba, where at

> least 350 university and school students have contracted it, and

> Saitama, where a university has reported cases among its

candidature.

>

> The World Health Organisation aims to eliminate measles from the

> Western Pacific area, including Japan, by 2012.

>

> - with AP

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI everyone,

I know they are using scare tactics here....and I for one am NOT

afraid of measles (think treating with Vit A and C will take care of

it).

However, doesn't this seem to suggest that vaccinating against measles

DOES work (in this case double doses)in controlling disease?

Carly.

[Guest guest]

I couldn't help but think the very same thing, Carly. How is this explained?

Anyone?....Anita

carly10475 <poppetspaws@...> wrote: HI everyone,

I know they are using scare tactics here....and I for one am NOT

afraid of measles (think treating with Vit A and C will take care of

it).

However, doesn't this seem to suggest that vaccinating against measles

DOES work (in this case double doses)in controlling disease?

Carly.

---------------------------------

Shape in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

[Guest guest]

It's a numbers game, for one thing. In countries that are " supposed " to be

immune due to the double doses of vaccines, measles often goes undiagnosed.

Most MDs have never seen a real case of measles, so it gets labeled as something

else becaues SURELY it can't be measles (or mumps or chicken pox, etc). The

same with diseases like polio that get renamed.

And as Sheri N. has explained before about vaccines giving a chronic case of the

disease.

Here is information from Sheri's website about this:

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm#chronic

More here: (click on #3 Artificial or Vaccine-induced Immunity: Relative,

Partial, and Temporary)

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/moskowitz.html#Artificial_or_Vaccine-Induced_Immunit\

y:_Relative,_Partial,_and_Temporary._

Dispelling Vaccination Myths: An Introduction to the Contradictions Between

Medical Science and Immunization Policy:

http://www.whale.to/v/phillips.html

Kay

Re: Re: Japanese measles epidemic

>I couldn't help but think the very same thing, Carly. How is this explained?

Anyone?....Anita

>

> carly10475 <poppetspaws@...> wrote: HI everyone,

>

> I know they are using scare tactics here....and I for one am NOT

> afraid of measles (think treating with Vit A and C will take care of

> it).

>

> However, doesn't this seem to suggest that vaccinating against measles

> DOES work (in this case double doses)in controlling disease?

>

> Carly.

[Guest guest]

OK< thanks for your thoughts guys.

Just a couple of thoughts-

* surely if you have a raging case of measles it would be dx be most

doctors. I mean, those spots are pretty obvious?

* my eldest daughter was vaccinated with MMR. She, and none of her

friends that I know of, have a " chronic case " of the disease. She is

perfectly healthy, although it is possible her immune system is a

bit overloaded.

This is all in the interests of devil's advocacy. I have read some

pretty convincing stats that vaccines do reduce disease. My doctor

told me that Hib has virtually been eliminated in our region since

the vaccine was introduced in recent times. Can't remember the stats

exactly.

So when I hear " vaccines don't work " I am skeptical. Doesn't mean I

am supportive of them, though, as the price is too high.

Carly.

[Guest guest]

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> OK< thanks for your thoughts guys.

>

> Just a couple of thoughts-

>

> surely if you have a raging case of measles it would be dx be most

> doctors. I mean, those spots are pretty obvious?

**** You'd be surprised. If it's been drummed into these doctors' heads

strongly enough, they won't believe it is measles because most people have

been vaxed for it. Denial is a powerful thing!

> my eldest daughter was vaccinated with MMR. She, and none of her

> friends that I know of, have a " chronic case " of the disease. She is

> perfectly healthy, although it is possible her immune system is a

> bit overloaded.

**** So, none of your daughter's friends have an chronic issues...

allergies, asthma, eczema, ADD, etc. ?? Sheri isn't talking about everyone

exhibiting chronic measles symptoms. Vaccines affect everyone differently.

Some develop chronic illnesses, some have high fevers, some have seizures,

some develop autism, others die, other seem to escape without anything major

(but we don't know what their health will be like long term, do we?). I work

in an elementary school and I see DAILY the damage vaccines (as well as

other toxins in our food and environment) cause. I've never seen such a

sick bunch of kids since I worked in the pediatric ward of a hospital!

And what do you mean by your daughter's immune system being " a bit

overloaded " ?

> This is all in the interests of devil's advocacy. I have read some

> pretty convincing stats that vaccines do reduce disease. My doctor

> told me that Hib has virtually been eliminated in our region since

> the vaccine was introduced in recent times. Can't remember the stats

> exactly.

>

> So when I hear " vaccines don't work " I am skeptical. Doesn't mean I

> am supportive of them, though, as the price is too high.

***** Did you read the links I sent in my last post and read what Sheri N

posted?? She said, " You have a chronic case of the disease injected into

you. While you chronically ill with a deeper disease you can't show

symptoms of another disease that is weaker. "

Kay

>

> Carly.

[Guest guest]

Is the deeper disease (in this case) the measles or something else like autism

that you mean? Just trying to figure out which thing the chronically ill means.

) ~ Mommy To Gavin (07/05) & New Year baby on the way ~

~ KUSTOMIZED KIDS ~ http://www.cafepress.com/kustomizedkids

Baby & Kids, Pregnancy, Natural Parenting, Wedding, & Personalized Clothing

Designs

" Families Eating Healthy " - recipes & more

FamiliesEatingHealthy

***** Did you read the links I sent in my last post and read what Sheri N

posted?? She said, " You have a chronic case of the disease injected into

you. While you chronically ill with a deeper disease you can't show

symptoms of another disease that is weaker. "

Kay

[Guest guest]

The original disease state (ie measles) remains in the body (chronically)

meanwhile causing problems with the body's immune responses as a whole.

Kind of like the ripple in water when you throw a stone into it.

Read the info I sent from Sheri's site and the Whale.to site. They both

give very detailed information about this.

Kay

Re: Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> Is the deeper disease (in this case) the measles or something else like

> autism that you mean? Just trying to figure out which thing the

> chronically ill means.

>

>

>

> ) ~ Mommy To Gavin (07/05) & New Year baby on the way ~

[Guest guest]

I read it I was just still confused! LOL I think I get it now though. I just

didn't know if they meant a chronic case of the measles (not presenting like an

acute case) or the chronic disease was something else induced by the vaccine

like autism or diabetes.

Thanks for your help.

) ~ Mommy To Gavin (07/05) & New Year baby on the way ~

~ KUSTOMIZED KIDS ~ http://www.cafepress.com/kustomizedkids

Baby & Kids, Pregnancy, Natural Parenting, Wedding, & Personalized Clothing

Designs

" Families Eating Healthy " - recipes & more

FamiliesEatingHealthy

The original disease state (ie measles) remains in the body (chronically)

meanwhile causing problems with the body's immune responses as a whole.

Kind of like the ripple in water when you throw a stone into it.

Read the info I sent from Sheri's site and the Whale.to site. They both

give very detailed information about this.

Kay

[Guest guest]

>

> ***** Did you read the links I sent in my last post and read what

Sheri N

> posted?? She said, " You have a chronic case of the disease injected

into

> you. While you chronically ill with a deeper disease you can't show

> symptoms of another disease that is weaker. "

>

> Kay

I DO know what you mean. But if this is the case why do a portion of

vaccinated people contract diseases with full-blown symptoms...ie. if

they are so chronically ill they can't catch the disease?

And my vaccinated daughter still gets colds, viruses, etc, just like

her unvaxed sister.

Not trying to be argumentative, LOL, but I like to think critically on

BOTH sides of the debate because it is such an important issue.

Carly.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > surely if you have a raging case of measles it would be dx be most

> > doctors. I mean, those spots are pretty obvious?

>

> **** You'd be surprised. If it's been drummed into these doctors'

heads

> strongly enough, they won't believe it is measles because most

people have

> been vaxed for it. Denial is a powerful thing!

>

Hi Kay, I have no doubt many doctors would be clueless. But I would

think most would consult a textbook or a collegue if it baffled them.

What do you think they would dx it as otherwise?

Carly.

[Guest guest]

You're very welcome.

It IS confusing. I have to read things like this MANY times before it

finally sinks in! : )

Kay

Re: Re: Japanese measles epidemic

>I read it I was just still confused! LOL I think I get it now though. I

>just didn't know if they meant a chronic case of the measles (not

>presenting like an acute case) or the chronic disease was something else

>induced by the vaccine like autism or diabetes.

> Thanks for your help.

>

> ) ~ Mommy To Gavin (07/05) & New Year baby on the way ~

[Guest guest]

I don't think most ARE baffled. They think they know what it is, especially

if the patient has been fully vaxed. Do some Googling... you'll find

measles is often misdiagnosed. One article in the medical journal,

" Clinical Infectious Diseases " states misdiagnosis is very common and that

" other viral agents may produce symptoms similar to measles. "

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID/journal/issues/v35n1/011123/011123.html

" The clinical differential diagnosis of rash due to viral infections is

often difficult, and misdiagnosis is not rare, especially after the

introduction of measles and rubella vaccination. "

http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=abstract & id=14188 & toc=y

Fifth Disease is another that was mentioned as being diagnosed instead of

measles.

It often takes specific blood tests to determine if an illness is measles or

something else. It's apparently not that obvious, especially since most

doctors have never seen a case of measles.

My brother had measles, my husband and his siblings all had measles. My Mom

and her 8 siblings had it. It's NOT the killer disease the medical industry

has made it out to be.

Sheri N. does a great deal of education through this list and her classes to

help take the fear out of illnesses. Fear that most of us have had drilled

into us since childhood.

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> Hi Kay, I have no doubt many doctors would be clueless. But I would

> think most would consult a textbook or a collegue if it baffled them.

> What do you think they would dx it as otherwise?

>

> Carly.

[Guest guest]

OK, thanks for that. It makes it clearer. I was under the impression

that measles always had large, obvious spots (like those propaganda

pics they use!) and would have to be bleedingly obvious.

Just to say again, I am personally not scared of measles in the least.

My elder family members came through it just fine. And I think Vit A

and C are crucial to coming through it OK. That's not really the point

I was getting at. I am just trying to determine " do vaccines reduce

measles? " so as to gauge the effectiveness

Thanks for the links.

Carly.

[Guest guest]

It's not uncommon at all for people to get the very diseases they were

vaccinated against. With some vaccines, the injection contains a live

virus, so that's not too difficult to understand when someone contracts the

disease FROM the vaccine. Even the medical industry admits most vaccines

are only about 80% " effective. " Some people can be vaccinated over and over

for the same thing and never show any antibodies to that vaccine.

When it comes to the immune system, nothing is set in stone. Why does one

person who is exposed to an illness contract a serious case when another

person, also exposed, doesn't show a single symptom?

And there's nothing " wrong " with a person getting a cold, virus, etc. If

our immune systems never have the chance to flex their muscles, then they'd

never have a chance to strengthen. Studies have shown that childhood

illnesses serve a purpose to do just that. With so few children getting

these diseases anymore, that also contributes to the chronic diseases our

children are succumbing to.

Again, every individual reacts differently. We all inherit predispositions

to certain illnesses/diseases, too. Depending on if a person was breast

fed, for how long, what kind of medications were they given as a child, what

environmental toxins have they been exposed to?? So many factors come into

play.

Hope that helps somewhat. I don't profess to have all the answers. I'm

still learning, too. : )

Kay

> I DO know what you mean. But if this is the case why do a portion of

> vaccinated people contract diseases with full-blown symptoms...ie. if

> they are so chronically ill they can't catch the disease?

>

> And my vaccinated daughter still gets colds, viruses, etc, just like

> her unvaxed sister.

>

> Not trying to be argumentative, LOL, but I like to think critically on

> BOTH sides of the debate because it is such an important issue.

>

> Carly.

[Guest guest]

I think of it more as " suppression. " The acute manifestation of the

illness may not appear as often in a population, but it's still there,

damaging the body in a much more severe and long term way. To me that's

not being " effective " but destructive.

Kay

Re: Japanese measles epidemic

> OK, thanks for that. It makes it clearer. I was under the impression

> that measles always had large, obvious spots (like those propaganda

> pics they use!) and would have to be bleedingly obvious.

>

> Just to say again, I am personally not scared of measles in the least.

> My elder family members came through it just fine. And I think Vit A

> and C are crucial to coming through it OK. That's not really the point

> I was getting at. I am just trying to determine " do vaccines reduce

> measles? " so as to gauge the effectiveness

>

> Thanks for the links.

>

> Carly.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> It's not uncommon at all for people to get the very diseases they

were

> vaccinated against. With some vaccines, the injection contains a

live

> virus, so that's not too difficult to understand when someone

contracts the

> disease FROM the vaccine.

Yeah, I know. There are a couple of kids who got chicken pox from

their vaccine.

What I was referring to, though, are those people who get it *after

the event*...ie. they are vaxed for measles but get it later down

the track when its going around.

If those people are " too sick with the chronic case to get the acute

disease " how come they still get it? Wouldn't it be fair to say that

they are not necessarily chronically ill?

I guess I find it hard to believe that everyone who has been vaxed

is THAT ill with a chronic case of the disease. Sure, they may have

things that crop up later but that's not what I mean. If they had a

chronic case of the disease would they manifest symptoms similar to

the illness?

The example of catching colds and viruses was about the fact that my

daughter is not so ill that she doesn't get any " less serious "

illnesses. Same with my unvaxed daughter. They both react quite

similarly - even if my youngest is better off in the long term.

I don't know if I am making any sense here - I know what I am trying

to say (o:

The orginal assertion was that vaccinated populations can't get

measles because they are too ill with the virus to start with. I am

thinking that maybe it is hard to prove that either way...do they

not get it because they already have it or because they have some

immunity to it? And there is always still people that DO get it

(hence what is happening in Japan) and are probably vaxed.

Carly.