Re: need a fake illness

[Guest guest]

Well, fibromyalgia is pretty well documented these days and there have been a

ton of articles in the mainstream media about how " real " it is. And many say

it is the same or a close relative of CFIDS(I have my doubts). Plus it avoids

the stupid " fatigue " label.

Someone made a coment about the spiritual harm of claiming a " fake " illness.

I respect this viewpoint, but I don't think it really applies here. You are

not making anything up just looking for a label that will convey your symptoms

to this person. How about Myalgic Encepalopathy? Chances are no one has

ever heard of this outside our circle and it would be an absolutely accurate and

true label. (I believe the US is the ONLY country where they still use the

F-word, chronic Fatigue) My sympathies in having to deal with this person. It

is best to avoid people like this if you can. If she is truly so mentally

unstable it may be that nothing will convince her.

Sincerely,

Olga

[Guest guest]

Tell her you have late stage lyme disease and give her some info on how awful it

is. I can verify that one.

yildiz <yildiz22@...> wrote: Hi all

I have a strange problem that I need your help. I have an elderly friend who

does not believe CFS is a physical illness and who also has some kind of

personality disorder. She is hard to convince.She is terribly insisting that she

wishes to take me to a psychiatrist.I am tired of explaining her that I am fine.

Due to the personality disorder she has she is talking too much on the same

subject.She is also much older than me and I don't wish to hurt her. I

inevitably have to be in contact with her for a while for personal reasons and

she will notice my debilitated condition while we are together. She also wishes

to spend more time together and she can not understand when I say I can not talk

much or stand on my feet for long periods. I thought creating a fake illness to

explain my low energy might be an idea. Which illness that could be? Could you

give me an idea. I need to find an acceptable illness which will not allow the

patient to be active for long periods. Is there any

illness other than CFS which has similar symptoms?

thanks a lot.

Nil

[Guest guest]

Well I've got a whole lot more understanding since I was diagnosed with Lyme

disease. However this sort of relationship sounds like its gonna be wholly

negative for you in the long run so it might be good to evaluate it carefully

need a fake illness

Hi all

I have a strange problem that I need your help. I have an elderly friend who

does not believe CFS is a physical illness and who also has some kind of

personality disorder. She is hard to convince.She is terribly insisting that she

wishes to take me to a psychiatrist.I am tired of explaining her that I am fine.

Due to the personality disorder she has she is talking too much on the same

subject.She is also much older than me and I don't wish to hurt her. I

inevitably have to be in contact with her for a while for personal reasons and

she will notice my debilitated condition while we are together. She also wishes

to spend more time together and she can not understand when I say I can not talk

much or stand on my feet for long periods. I thought creating a fake illness to

explain my low energy might be an idea. Which illness that could be? Could you

give me an idea. I need to find an acceptable illness which will not allow the

patient to be active for long periods. Is there any illness other than CFS which

has similar symptoms?

thanks a lot.

Nil

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi all

>

> I have a strange problem that I need your help. I have an elderly

friend who does not believe CFS is a physical illness and who also has

some kind of personality disorder. She is hard to convince.She is

terribly insisting that she wishes to take me to a psychiatrist.I am

tired of explaining her that I am fine. Due to the personality

disorder she has she is talking too much on the same subject.She is

also much older than me and I don't wish to hurt her. I inevitably

have to be in contact with her for a while for personal reasons and

she will notice my debilitated condition while we are together. She

also wishes to spend more time together and she can not understand

when I say I can not talk much or stand on my feet for long periods. I

thought creating a fake illness to explain my low energy might be an

idea. Which illness that could be? Could you give me an idea. I need

to find an acceptable illness which will not allow the patient to be

active for long periods. Is there any illness other than CFS which has

similar symptoms?

** I can think of two. Atypical or non-paralytic polio and MS. In

fact, post-polio syndrome, which strikes recovered polio victims after

a few decades, is clinically very, very close to CFS.

And some people also believe that CFS is related to MS, perhaps one is

a subset of the other. If you read the symptoms of MS, we have many

of them. So you could also say CFS is like a blend of both Polio and

MS.

Another trivia about polio, it leaves many victims with MCS and

extreme mold sensitivity. And of course, extreme weakness.

There is a possible connection also, becasue the coxsackie virus is

similar to the polio virus, and some people think CFS results from

damage inflicted by coxsackie.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

I understand your problem, but in my opinion it can be spiritually and then

physically harmful to lay claim to an illness you do not have.

I understand the correctness of respecting the elderly, (I am elderly,lol), but

that is not the same as allowing them to abuse you, esp when they themselves are

mentally ill. I suggest you find a way to kindly, gently, set limits on her.

It is okay to say she distresses you. You must protect your self and your

health.

Peace,

Adrienne

need a fake illness

Hi all

I have a strange problem that I need your help. I have an elderly friend who

does not believe CFS is a physical illness and who also has some kind of

personality disorder. She is hard to convince.She is terribly insisting that she

wishes to take me to a psychiatrist.I am tired of explaining her that I am fine.

Due to the personality disorder she has she is talking too much on the same

subject.She is also much older than me and I don't wish to hurt her. I

inevitably have to be in contact with her for a while for personal reasons and

she will notice my debilitated condition while we are together. She also wishes

to spend more time together and she can not understand when I say I can not talk

much or stand on my feet for long periods. I thought creating a fake illness to

explain my low energy might be an idea. Which illness that could be? Could you

give me an idea. I need to find an acceptable illness which will not allow the

patient to be active for long periods. Is there any illness other than CFS which

has similar symptoms?

thanks a lot.

Nil

[Guest guest]

Thank you all very much for all your valuable insights.

Olga

Yes,I also have my doubts on relation of CFS and FM. I met two persons who

were diagnosed by FM but they looked perfectly normal,were working and their

main problem was pain. Is that the general case for FM patients or do they

in some cases have extreme exhaustion like PWC's have?

And yes,I think you are right in saying that nothing may convince her.But I

must say that I really find it strange how people in general think that we

have a psychiatric illness.I mean not at earlier stages but at later stage

more and more people thinking that I have a psychiatric disease as soon as

they see me.Once I was in a village. I was talking to an old woman.

Uneducated. I had to mention her that I was sick for some reason. I did not

give her any details neither mentioned her about the symptoms.And as soon as

i said that to her she immediately asked in symphaty " is it psychiatric? " .

That sounded very interesting to me. Out of all those illnesses how come she

came out with psychiatric one?. Was that expression on my face,the way I

look? I am pale and look unhealthy but that should not be the reason. That

may happen at other illnesses,too.I don't know. Anyone noticed similar

situations?

bw

Nil

Re: need a fake illness

> Well, fibromyalgia is pretty well documented these days and there have

> been a

> ton of articles in the mainstream media about how " real " it is. And many

> say

> it is the same or a close relative of CFIDS(I have my doubts). Plus it

> avoids

> the stupid " fatigue " label.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nil,

She probably noticed you were guarded about giving your illness a name

or details thus assumed you had an illness with a stigma-mental illness.

We know that mental illnesses are not the only ones that carry stigma.

Gail

yildiz wrote:

>

> Thank you all very much for all your valuable insights.

>

> Olga

>

> Yes,I also have my doubts on relation of CFS and FM. I met two persons

> who

> were diagnosed by FM but they looked perfectly normal,were working and

> their

> main problem was pain. Is that the general case for FM patients or do

> they

> in some cases have extreme exhaustion like PWC's have?

>

> And yes,I think you are right in saying that nothing may convince

> her.But I

> must say that I really find it strange how people in general think

> that we

> have a psychiatric illness.I mean not at earlier stages but at later

> stage

> more and more people thinking that I have a psychiatric disease as

> soon as

> they see me.Once I was in a village. I was talking to an old woman.

> Uneducated. I had to mention her that I was sick for some reason. I

> did not

> give her any details neither mentioned her about the symptoms.And as

> soon as

> i said that to her she immediately asked in symphaty " is it

> psychiatric? " .

> That sounded very interesting to me. Out of all those illnesses how

> come she

> came out with psychiatric one?. Was that expression on my face,the way I

> look? I am pale and look unhealthy but that should not be the reason.

> That

> may happen at other illnesses,too. I don't know. Anyone noticed similar

> situations?

> bw

> Nil

> Re: need a fake illness

>

> > Well, fibromyalgia is pretty well documented these days and there have

> > been a

> > ton of articles in the mainstream media about how " real " it is. And

> many

> > say

> > it is the same or a close relative of CFIDS(I have my doubts). Plus it

> > avoids

> > the stupid " fatigue " label.

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you all very much for all your valuable insights.

>

> Olga

>

> Yes,I also have my doubts on relation of CFS and FM. I met two

persons who

> were diagnosed by FM but they looked perfectly normal,were working

and their

> main problem was pain. Is that the general case for FM patients or

do they

> in some cases have extreme exhaustion like PWC's have?

** Some PWFM do have the fatigue, but for some it is secondary to the

pain and they can still work full time. FM is not CFS, that is quite

clear if you know people with both conditions, which I do. I also

know a few who have both. Maybe that is what makes this difficult,

becasue some PWC also have FM, and some do not.

> And yes,I think you are right in saying that nothing may convince

her.But I

> must say that I really find it strange how people in general think

that we

> have a psychiatric illness.I mean not at earlier stages but at later

stage

> more and more people thinking that I have a psychiatric disease as

soon as

> they see me.Once I was in a village. I was talking to an old woman.

> Uneducated. I had to mention her that I was sick for some reason. I

did not

> give her any details neither mentioned her about the symptoms.And as

soon as

> i said that to her she immediately asked in symphaty " is it

psychiatric? " .

> That sounded very interesting to me. Out of all those illnesses how

come she

> came out with psychiatric one?. Was that expression on my face,the

way I

> look? I am pale and look unhealthy but that should not be the

reason. That

> may happen at other illnesses,too.I don't know. Anyone noticed similar

> situations?

** I can also comment on this since my daughter has CFS and sometimes

is worse off than I am. And she does come across this way, even to

me, and I know a fair bit about CFS. I think it is the neurotoxin

effects, which create mannerisms that do remind a person of mental

illness. The neurotoxins also change how we talk to people. Becasue

we often have difficulties maintaining the energy to talk to people we

appear to 'zone in' and 'zone out'. This is very similar to a

mentally ill person who is not always in the present moment.

One other point, PWC often apear anxious or depressed, perhaps partly

because we feel poorly and partly because there is a lot of anxiety

and depression when you have neurotoxins in the brain. That also is

very visible to other people and triggers the suspicion of mental illness.

So I think it is a case of mistaken identity, we do appear similar to

mentally ill people, but that is just a very unfortunate coincidence.

In my experience people with CFS are far more sane than most ordinary

people, based on what we cope with (toxins in the nerves). Can you

imagine a person who actually IS mentally ill trying to cope with CFS?

They could not think straight at all, ever, they would be complete

lunitics.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you all very much for all your valuable insights.

>

> Olga

>

> Yes,I also have my doubts on relation of CFS and FM. I met two

persons who

> were diagnosed by FM but they looked perfectly normal,were working

and their

> main problem was pain. Is that the general case for FM patients or

do they

> in some cases have extreme exhaustion like PWC's have?

** Some PWFM do have the fatigue, but for some it is secondary to the

pain and they can still work full time. FM is not CFS, that is quite

clear if you know people with both conditions, which I do. I also

know a few who have both. Maybe that is what makes this difficult,

becasue some PWC also have FM, and some do not.

> And yes,I think you are right in saying that nothing may convince

her.But I

> must say that I really find it strange how people in general think

that we

> have a psychiatric illness.I mean not at earlier stages but at later

stage

> more and more people thinking that I have a psychiatric disease as

soon as

> they see me.Once I was in a village. I was talking to an old woman.

> Uneducated. I had to mention her that I was sick for some reason. I

did not

> give her any details neither mentioned her about the symptoms.And as

soon as

> i said that to her she immediately asked in symphaty " is it

psychiatric? " .

> That sounded very interesting to me. Out of all those illnesses how

come she

> came out with psychiatric one?. Was that expression on my face,the

way I

> look? I am pale and look unhealthy but that should not be the

reason. That

> may happen at other illnesses,too.I don't know. Anyone noticed similar

> situations?

** I can also comment on this since my daughter has CFS and sometimes

is worse off than I am. And she does come across this way, even to

me, and I know a fair bit about CFS. I think it is the neurotoxin

effects, which create mannerisms that do remind a person of mental

illness. The neurotoxins also change how we talk to people. Becasue

we often have difficulties maintaining the energy to talk to people we

appear to 'zone in' and 'zone out'. This is very similar to a

mentally ill person who is not always in the present moment.

One other point, PWC often apear anxious or depressed, perhaps partly

because we feel poorly and partly because there is a lot of anxiety

and depression when you have neurotoxins in the brain. That also is

very visible to other people and triggers the suspicion of mental illness.

So I think it is a case of mistaken identity, we do appear similar to

mentally ill people, but that is just a very unfortunate coincidence.

In my experience people with CFS are far more sane than most ordinary

people, based on what we cope with (toxins in the nerves). Can you

imagine a person who actually IS mentally ill trying to cope with CFS?

They could not think straight at all, ever, they would be complete

lunatics.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

personally I wouldn't cater to this bs. You have CFS, she's noticed

you don't feel well, can't stand for long, maybe she needs to change

her mind! Maybe you can be the one to change it for her, by observing

your condition and putting two and two together, if she's even

capable of that.

>

> Hi all

>

> I have a strange problem that I need your help. I have an elderly

friend who does not believe CFS is a physical illness and who also

has some kind of personality disorder. She is hard to convince.She is

terribly insisting that she wishes to take me to a psychiatrist.I am

tired of explaining her that I am fine. Due to the personality

disorder she has she is talking too much on the same subject.She is

also much older than me and I don't wish to hurt her. I inevitably

have to be in contact with her for a while for personal reasons and

she will notice my debilitated condition while we are together. She

also wishes to spend more time together and she can not understand

when I say I can not talk much or stand on my feet for long periods.

I thought creating a fake illness to explain my low energy might be

an idea. Which illness that could be? Could you give me an idea. I

need to find an acceptable illness which will not allow the patient

to be active for long periods. Is there any illness other than CFS

which has similar symptoms?

>

> thanks a lot.

>

> Nil

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for great insights Kurt.This explains what has been happening to

me.You know what I am wondering? Could be the same neurotoxins that are

causing mentally ill to look 'mentally ill'.Mentally ill are never treated

for toxins but given only pharmaceuticals.

> ** I can also comment on this since my daughter has CFS and sometimes

> is worse off than I am. And she does come across this way, even to

> me, and I know a fair bit about CFS. I think it is the neurotoxin

> effects, which create mannerisms that do remind a person of mental

> illness. The neurotoxins also change how we talk to people. Becasue

> we often have difficulties maintaining the energy to talk to people we

> appear to 'zone in' and 'zone out'. This is very similar to a

> mentally ill person who is not always in the present moment.

>

> One other point, PWC often apear anxious or depressed, perhaps partly

> because we feel poorly and partly because there is a lot of anxiety

> and depression when you have neurotoxins in the brain. That also is

> very visible to other people and triggers the suspicion of mental illness.

>

> So I think it is a case of mistaken identity, we do appear similar to

> mentally ill people, but that is just a very unfortunate coincidence.

>

> In my experience people with CFS are far more sane than most ordinary

> people, based on what we cope with (toxins in the nerves). Can you

> imagine a person who actually IS mentally ill trying to cope with CFS?

yes.. You are right. can not imagine that.

> They could not think straight at all, ever, they would be complete

> lunitics.

>

thanks again.

[Guest guest]

Thanks.. The problem is that some people insist on thinking that this

exhaustion will go away if we take psychotropic meds.They probably think

this is some kind of depression. In order to be able to convince them I need

to take some psychiatric therapy and prove them that it won't work.

Otherwise they won't believe. Oh my!

bw

Nil

Re: need a fake illness

> personally I wouldn't cater to this bs. You have CFS, she's noticed

> you don't feel well, can't stand for long, maybe she needs to change

> her mind! Maybe you can be the one to change it for her, by observing

> your condition and putting two and two together, if she's even

> capable of that.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just say 'idiopathic cardiomyopathy' or 'myalgic encephalitis', or

say you have an illness of unkown origin, been to many docs, and

they can't figure it out. Works for me when someone asks why I am

so thin that my cheeks sink in.

Mike C

>

> Hi all

>

> I have a strange problem that I need your help. I have an elderly

friend who does not believe CFS is a physical illness and who also

has some kind of personality disorder. She is hard to convince.She is

terribly insisting that she wishes to take me to a psychiatrist.I am

tired of explaining her that I am fine. Due to the personality

disorder she has she is talking too much on the same subject.She is

also much older than me and I don't wish to hurt her. I inevitably

have to be in contact with her for a while for personal reasons and

she will notice my debilitated condition while we are together. She

also wishes to spend more time together and she can not understand

when I say I can not talk much or stand on my feet for long periods.

I thought creating a fake illness to explain my low energy might be

an idea. Which illness that could be? Could you give me an idea. I

need to find an acceptable illness which will not allow the patient

to be active for long periods. Is there any illness other than CFS

which has similar symptoms?

>

> thanks a lot.

[Guest guest]

I take St. 's Wort, (or I did until very recently) to alleviate my

depression. Doesn't prove I have a mental disorder.

Adrienne

Re: need a fake illness

> personally I wouldn't cater to this bs. You have CFS, she's noticed

> you don't feel well, can't stand for long, maybe she needs to change

> her mind! Maybe you can be the one to change it for her, by observing

> your condition and putting two and two together, if she's even

> capable of that.

>

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I believe that the famous clinician, Dr. Cheney, in his most

recent presentation said that there was about a 60% incidence of

depression **secondary** to cardio problems. However, he said that

the depression in most cases wasn't severe, i.e., requiring

hospitalization.

Mike C.

In , " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...>

wrote:

>

> I take St. 's Wort, (or I did until very recently) to alleviate

my depression. Doesn't prove I have a mental disorder.

> Adrienne

> Re: Re: need a fake illness

>

>

> Thanks.. The problem is that some people insist on thinking that

this

> exhaustion will go away if we take psychotropic meds.They

probably think

> this is some kind of depression. In order to be able to convince

them I need

> to take some psychiatric therapy and prove them that it won't

work.

> Otherwise they won't believe. Oh my!