Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 >> Any degree to which this illness may be corrected by > mental/emotional factors is the degree to which it IS a > mental/emotional illness. > The ME/CFS phenomenon that I observed is a horrifying physiological > illness that has emotional lability as a consequence - not as a > cause. Yes I can ignore all assertions of mental causality, they > have no place in this illness. > ** The brain type and personality measures are NOT mental/emotional factors. What they are is a possible marker for brain physiology, for a specific structure. This did all begin with Jung's characterization of temperament, then was morphed into Meyers-Briggs classification scheme, so I can understand your view if you are thinking of the origin of personality theory. But as has pointed out, more recently Neidnagel has popularized the idea (which he borrowed from medical research) that the MBTI system is actually a reflection of different brain structures. He can actually observe the motor movements of an athlete and identify that person's MBTI, that is how physiological the structure types are. So the updated view of temperament, or brain type is about PHYSIOLOGY and not psychology. Probably 'personality' is the wrong word to be using now that we know that, I should probably say 'brain type.' Sorry if that has been unclear. My purpose in pursuing this is the hypothesis that 'brain type' factors as expressed through the MBTI are possible genetic markers for vulnerability to biotoxin illness. This is perhaps analogous to Shoemaker's observation that 'wingspan' is a genetic marker for mold illness vulnerability. And as far as what happened at Incline, I don't see any conflict with this hypothesis, just some unanswered questions. For example, a strong enough trigger will bring down nearly anyone exposed. In WWII entire barracks of soldiers sometimes became sick with mycoplasma phneumonia, for example, that was a strong trigger in an enclosed space. The specific trigger at Incline is the unanswered question of course, perhaps it was a strong encephalitic virus, that would leave large numbers of people severely affected. But over a long period of time only those with certain predispositions would remain sick, those who were perhaps more injured by the virus due to the way their brains and immune responses worked. I would not be surprised if a brain type survey revealed that most of the people who have remained sick from Incline fall into the same categories as the episodic CFS patients in terms of brain type, if that is a real marker. But there may be many different triggers that lead to similar brain injury, so some elements of the cases would differ of course. --Kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 > " bob niederman " <bobn1955@...> wrote: > > > You keep talking about " inherited disease " whenever anybody brings up > > " genetic predisposition " . Why is that? They are DIFFERENT. > On 10/18/06, erikmoldwarrior <erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote: > Because people generally place " genetic predisposition " in a context > of heritable genes. OK. so far. > Since every structure and function of any living thing is " genetic " , > if one wishes to say that the environmental or infection is the cause > of a genetic alteration that results in a predisposition, they can > simply use the customary terms indicating that an infection or toxic > exposure is responsible, , the 'pre' in predisposition means *before* - as in before the infectious agent/toxic mold/whatever shows up. By the way, you've stated you had mold problems before CFS/ME. Now *that* sounds like a genetic predisposition to me. - Bob Niederman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 " Kurt Rowley " wrote: > ** The brain type and personality measures are NOT mental/emotional factors. What they are is a possible marker for brain physiology, -Kurt > Thanks for your excellent explanation. It sounds like a good project, and I'm all in favor of anything that helps further our understanding of this illness. After the way presumed mental states have always been used as an excuse to deny research into CFS, I hope you can forgive me if I'm a little touchy about this subject. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 " bob niederman " > , the 'pre' in predisposition means *before* - as in before the > infectious agent/toxic mold/whatever shows up. > > By the way, you've stated you had mold problems before CFS/ME. Now > *that* sounds like a genetic predisposition to me. > > - Bob Niederman Measurable by HLA DR assay and not rare. I've already witnessed a spectacular increase in expression of this reasonably common " predisposition " . I expect to see many more. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 > " Kurt Rowley " wrote: > > > ** The brain type and personality measures are NOT mental/emotional > factors. What they are is a possible marker for brain physiology, > -Kurt > > > > Thanks for your excellent explanation. > It sounds like a good project, and I'm all in favor of anything that > helps further our understanding of this illness. > > After the way presumed mental states have always been used as an > excuse to deny research into CFS, I hope you can forgive me if I'm a > little touchy about this subject. > - Yes, I understand. I have been battling CFS for 10 years now, and can only imagine how frustrated the 20+ year veterans must be at this point. Probably 'touchy' is an understatement. --Kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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