CFS Personality Type Survey

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kurt.

I think the results from this poll may be interesting. I also think there is

a mistake(not by

you) already in the percentages suggested are in the general poplulation of each

of the

sixteen temperments at the link that states them.

Though probably not the most important issue to consider, the percentages appear

dramatically off target based on my study of the cutting edge expert in this

arena named

Jon Niednagel. For instance, his empirical study of what he coins braintypes

(www.braintypes.com) over the last thirty years of each of these original Carl

Jung

observations of eight mental traits(body traits also correlate) in people shows

the ENTP to

be the most common and commonly found among them.

The other trouble for those who don't arleady know their temperment type in this

field is

two fold. One, typically people tend to want to answer the test questions

according to

how they would prefer to be viewed and even prefer to view themselves though the

test is

after empirical realities over perception.

Throw sickness and long term sickness into this inherent bias we as people have

and you

can begin to see that skewed test results, particularly the " E " vs " I " which

technically

represents inherent energy expenditure preference an " E " has vs the energy

conservation

preference an " I " has, might readily occur. Also if I recall correctly, it's

very common for

inherent " T " (Thinkers) to want be viewed or view themselves as " F " (Feelers) and

the

converse is true as well.

Niednagel has an interesting way to get away from these errors as noted at his

website

that I've found quite powerful. One key is realizing this specific area of type

testing and

what Jung was doing was NOT about trying to get at subject perceptions of

ourselves(ie,

what braintype we think or feel we are), but actual object trait observations of

the eight

originally characterized by Jung.

The idea that these are genetically inherent and indellable, regardless of

nuture, seems

100% accurate though of course these eight traits aren't all there is to

consider in a

persons make-up and environment can influence how they're expressed.

I look forward to this survey's results.

" Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@...> wrote:

And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web page:

>

> /surveys?id=2352297

>

> Thanks!

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

My bad. Jung characterized six traits through his life time of studying people

while the " J "

and " P " came into view after his time to bring the total to eight. BTW,

imaging studies

now seem to verify the " J " as being strongly indicative of left brain dominance

while the " P "

means right brain dominance...Jung was an INTP(I think Cort on this list may be

one as

well, the most rare or least commonly found of the sixteen types).

" davidhall2020 " <davidhall@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Kurt.

>

>

>

> I think the results from this poll may be interesting. I also think there

is a mistake(not

by

> you) already in the percentages suggested are in the general poplulation of

each of the

> sixteen temperments at the link that states them.

>

>

>

> Though probably not the most important issue to consider, the percentages

appear

> dramatically off target based on my study of the cutting edge expert in this

arena

named

> Jon Niednagel. For instance, his empirical study of what he coins

braintypes

> (www.braintypes.com) over the last thirty years of each of these original Carl

Jung

> observations of eight mental traits(body traits also correlate) in people

shows the ENTP

to

> be the most common and commonly found among them.

>

>

>

> The other trouble for those who don't arleady know their temperment type in

this field

is

> two fold. One, typically people tend to want to answer the test questions

according to

> how they would prefer to be viewed and even prefer to view themselves though

the test

is

> after empirical realities over perception.

>

>

>

> Throw sickness and long term sickness into this inherent bias we as people

have and

you

> can begin to see that skewed test results, particularly the " E " vs " I " which

technically

> represents inherent energy expenditure preference an " E " has vs the energy

conservation

> preference an " I " has, might readily occur. Also if I recall correctly, it's

very common for

> inherent " T " (Thinkers) to want be viewed or view themselves as " F " (Feelers)

and the

> converse is true as well.

>

>

>

> Niednagel has an interesting way to get away from these errors as noted at his

website

> that I've found quite powerful. One key is realizing this specific area of

type testing and

> what Jung was doing was NOT about trying to get at subject perceptions of

ourselves(ie,

> what braintype we think or feel we are), but actual object trait observations

of the eight

> originally characterized by Jung.

>

>

>

> The idea that these are genetically inherent and indellable, regardless of

nuture, seems

> 100% accurate though of course these eight traits aren't all there is to

consider in a

> persons make-up and environment can influence how they're expressed.

> I look forward to this survey's results.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> " Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@> wrote:

> And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web page:

> >

> > /surveys?id=2352297

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > --Kurt

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Good points. The percentages are from the Wikipedia entry for the

Meyers-Briggs, so those may be off, hard to say. If you know of a

study showing more accurate numbers, I would gladly fix those.

I too wondered about the possibility of bias in the test, but believe

that for the most part this test has been validated for biases like

that. Or at least the official MB has been, I believe the MB type has

been shown to change very little over a lifetime.

Maybe the question is whether sickness like CFS changes our

personality, or actually strengthens it. For example, would an

extrovert when sick become an introvert? Or would they actually

become even more extroverted and need even more social support than

before?

The results are already showing a fascinating clustering.

--Kurt

> And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web

page:

> >

> > /surveys?id=2352297

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > --Kurt

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I'm afraid my addled brain didn't save the email about where to post results. I

came up iSfJ. It seems quite accurate to me, but I do wonder if being so ill

all these years changed the outcome. I do behave and think in very different

ways that healthy folks.

Edy

Re: CFS Personality Type Survey

Hi ,

Good points. The percentages are from the Wikipedia entry for the

Meyers-Briggs, so those may be off, hard to say. If you know of a

study showing more accurate numbers, I would gladly fix those.

I too wondered about the possibility of bias in the test, but believe

that for the most part this test has been validated for biases like

that. Or at least the official MB has been, I believe the MB type has

been shown to change very little over a lifetime.

Maybe the question is whether sickness like CFS changes our

personality, or actually strengthens it. For example, would an

extrovert when sick become an introvert? Or would they actually

become even more extroverted and need even more social support than

before?

The results are already showing a fascinating clustering.

--Kurt

> And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web

page:

> >

> > /surveys?id=2352297

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > --Kurt

> >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Edy

Here is the link for posting the survey results:

/surveys?id=2352297

--Kurt

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm afraid my addled brain didn't save the email about where to post

results. I came up iSfJ. It seems quite accurate to me, but I do

wonder if being so ill all these years changed the outcome. I do

behave and think in very different ways that healthy folks.

>

> Edy

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kurt....done. It appears I'm in the biggest percentile.

Re: CFS Personality Type Survey

Hi Edy

Here is the link for posting the survey results:

/surveys?id=2352297

--Kurt

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm afraid my addled brain didn't save the email about where to post

results. I came up iSfJ. It seems quite accurate to me, but I do

wonder if being so ill all these years changed the outcome. I do

behave and think in very different ways that healthy folks.

>

> Edy

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/471 - Release Date: 10/10/2006

[Guest guest]

http://www.friesian.com/types.htm

bw

Nil

Re: CFS Personality Type Survey

>

>> My bad. Jung characterized six traits through his life time of

> studying

>> people while the " J "

>> and " P " came into view after his time to bring the total to eight.

> BTW,

>> imaging studies

>> now seem to verify the " J " as being strongly indicative of left brain

>> dominance while the " P "

>> means right brain dominance...Jung was an INTP(I think Cort on this

> list

>> may be one as

>> well, the most rare or least commonly found of the sixteen types).

>>

>>

>>

>> " davidhall2020 " <davidhall@...> wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi, Kurt.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> I think the results from this poll may be interesting. I also think

>>> there is a mistake(not

>> by

>>> you) already in the percentages suggested are in the general

> poplulation

>>> of each of the

>>> sixteen temperments at the link that states them.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Though probably not the most important issue to consider, the

> percentages

>>> appear

>>> dramatically off target based on my study of the cutting edge expert

> in

>>> this arena

>> named

>>> Jon Niednagel. For instance, his empirical study of what he coins

>>> braintypes

>>> (www.braintypes.com) over the last thirty years of each of these

> original

>>> Carl Jung

>>> observations of eight mental traits(body traits also correlate) in

> people

>>> shows the ENTP

>> to

>>> be the most common and commonly found among them.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> The other trouble for those who don't arleady know their temperment

> type

>>> in this field

>> is

>>> two fold. One, typically people tend to want to answer the test

>>> questions according to

>>> how they would prefer to be viewed and even prefer to view themselves

>

>>> though the test

>> is

>>> after empirical realities over perception.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Throw sickness and long term sickness into this inherent bias we as

>>> people have and

>> you

>>> can begin to see that skewed test results, particularly the " E " vs

> " I "

>>> which technically

>>> represents inherent energy expenditure preference an " E " has vs the

>>> energy

>> conservation

>>> preference an " I " has, might readily occur. Also if I recall

> correctly,

>>> it's very common for

>>> inherent " T " (Thinkers) to want be viewed or view themselves as

>>> " F " (Feelers) and the

>>> converse is true as well.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Niednagel has an interesting way to get away from these errors as

> noted

>>> at his website

>>> that I've found quite powerful. One key is realizing this specific

> area

>>> of type testing and

>>> what Jung was doing was NOT about trying to get at subject

> perceptions of

>>> ourselves(ie,

>>> what braintype we think or feel we are), but actual object trait

>>> observations of the eight

>>> originally characterized by Jung.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> The idea that these are genetically inherent and indellable,

> regardless

>>> of nuture, seems

>>> 100% accurate though of course these eight traits aren't all there is

> to

>>> consider in a

>>> persons make-up and environment can influence how they're expressed.

>>> I look forward to this survey's results.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> " Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@> wrote:

>>> And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web

> page:

>>> >

>>> > http://groups.

> </surveys?id=2352297>

> /group//surveys?id=2352297

>>> >

>>> > Thanks!

>>> >

>>> > --Kurt

>>> >

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

> each

>> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

> treatment

>> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

There is an excellent online free type test at www.socionics.com

On the left of the page click on 'Socionics online type assistant'

The test takes about 20 minutes if you include 'reverse mode'

(recommended).

There is also plenty of information on personality types.

Best Wishes,

[Guest guest]

I took it the test.. I'm a INTJ.. and I think it's an accurate

description of me as an adult. I think I would have scored much

differently in my 30's at the start of my illness.

Illness can shape and change SOME aspects of a personality - and

Visa Versa.

Barb

>

> I was typical left brain dominant judging type person whole my life

but this

> test gave a result of P. I wonder if this change occured due to

terrible

> late stage neurological problems occured during the last 6 years.(I

can not

> think much any more)

> bw

> Nil

[Guest guest]

Hi, Barb.

" Barb Peck " <egroups1bp@...> wrote:

>

> I took it the test.. I'm a INTJ.. and I think it's an accurate

> description of me as an adult. I think I would have scored much

> differently in my 30's at the start of my illness.

>

> Illness can shape and change SOME aspects of a personality - and

> Visa Versa.

>

> Barb

***I agree, personality or persona can change given different influences.

However, in this

particular field of typing, the test is really an attempt to get at these core

temperment

traits or genetic braintype traits, as one expert calls them, that have been

there all along

and don't change in essence no matter the influences encountered through time(I

have no

doubt chronic sickness or even unusually great health may cause test results to

turn out

differently though the actual core traits wouldn't in fact change).

***Though it has come to be called a personality test, core temperment in this

field vs

overall personality as people often discuss in ordinary social discourse is not

technically

the same. FWIW in my observing you through posts, I'm not surprised you test

INTJ, just

like Rich V. would I think if he happens to not already know this about himself.

>

>

>

> >

> > I was typical left brain dominant judging type person whole my life

> but this

> > test gave a result of P. I wonder if this change occured due to

> terrible

> > late stage neurological problems occured during the last 6 years.(I

> can not

> > think much any more)

> > bw

> > Nil

>

[Guest guest]

Rosie,

Just google 'ENFJ', there are dozens of very good websites discussing

each type. Some types even have support groups (some types need them).

--Kurt

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> I find this quite interesting stuff. I did the test and am an 'ENFJ'.

> Other than the brief description given at the end of the test I don't

> really know what this means - does anybody have ref to more detailed

> interpretation? I just want to see how accurate this all really is (in

> the same way I read horoscopes to see how accurate they are - always

> wrong, not surprisingly ! ).

>

> Rosie

>

[Guest guest]

> I took it the test.. I'm a INTJ.. and I think it's an accurate

> description of me as an adult. I think I would have scored much

> differently in my 30's at the start of my illness.

Probably you would have scored only a little differently in the past.

I have taken the MBTI several times during my life, and have never

changed much, except for one letter, which I will explain.

In a full MB test (not the free online quick test), a person receives

a score about how strong each of the letters is. In my case, I have

sometimes tested as an INTP and sometimes as an INTJ, this is becasue

the test scores on a continuum, and the opposites are at each end.

For example, imagine a numberline, from -10 to +10. The strength of

the letter says where you sit on the numberline. A strong P might be

-10, and a strong J might be +10. In my case, I am close to 0 on that

continuum, I can be either P or J. But I usually barely test for one

or the other being dominant, equal maybe to having a +1 or +2 score

towards either J or P, and right now I am barely a J.

But my other MBTI letter scores are very strong usually, it is only

the T/J that is flexible like this. Some people have other areas

where they are more neutral, each is unique. Also, the full MBTI

provides a LOT more information than the free online test, these

issues are all explained there, and a more complete score is given.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

True.

I know myself pretty well - Strengths and weaknesses- and the

description of INTJ is very accurate.

Barb

--- In , " davidhall2020 "

<davidhall@...> wrote in part:

***Though it has come to be called a personality test, core

temperment in this

field vs

overall personality as people often discuss in ordinary social

discourse is not

technically

the same. FWIW in my observing you through posts, I'm not surprised

you test

INTJ, just

like Rich V. would I think if he happens to not already know this

about himself.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Barb Peck "

I am INFJ...and that fits very well. It is quite interesting it

seems to be one of the rarest groups, in the general population, but

it is the most prevalent siting (36 %), at present, for the members

of this message group.>

Amelia

> True.

> I know myself pretty well - Strengths and weaknesses- and the

> description of INTJ is very accurate.

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In , " davidhall2020 "

> <davidhall@> wrote in part:

>

> ***Though it has come to be called a personality test, core

> temperment in this

> field vs

> overall personality as people often discuss in ordinary social

> discourse is not

> technically

> the same. FWIW in my observing you through posts, I'm not surprised

> you test

> INTJ, just

> like Rich V. would I think if he happens to not already know this

> about himself.

>

[Guest guest]

I am INFJ. When I did a Google search on " INFJ " , I found a site that

listed famous people with INFJ personality type, including Chaucer,

Goethe, Ghandi, Luther King, Mandela, Eleanor Roosevelt,

Carl Yung, Mother , and President .

Wishing you healing,

Vickie

[Guest guest]

THANKS,

Rosie

Rosie,

Just google 'ENFJ', there are dozens of very good websites discussing

each type. Some types even have support groups (some types need them).

--Kurt

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> I find this quite interesting stuff. I did the test and am an 'ENFJ'.

> Other than the brief description given at the end of the test I don't

> really know what this means - does anybody have ref to more detailed

> interpretation? I just want to see how accurate this all really is (in

> the same way I read horoscopes to see how accurate they are - always

> wrong, not surprisingly ! ).

>

> Rosie

>

[Guest guest]

Well I've googled ENFJ and there are bits that are me, but some bits

are very wrong indeed. I may be intuitive, but my husband calls me

the 'Ice Queen' because I'm not the most demonstrative individual on

the planet. But the real point of consternation was that I couldn't

co-ordinate my clothes!! My background is in dress design, and

anyone who knows me could tell you this ain't true!!

So.. I don't really think they are too acurate at all are they?!

Rosie

>

> I am INFJ. When I did a Google search on " INFJ " , I found a site

that

> listed famous people with INFJ personality type, including Chaucer,

> Goethe, Ghandi, Luther King, Mandela, Eleanor

Roosevelt,

> Carl Yung, Mother , and President .

>

> Wishing you healing,

>

> Vickie

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, Rosie, the Personality types are very accurate. I think

the fault lies in many groups and people trying fit them into

a " box " in hopes of helping more people understand the types. Much

like the generic horoscopes you read in the paper.

I am not familiar with the newer groups who are working with the

types. My background is with the work of Carl Jung and somewhat

with Meyers/Briggs.

In order to fully understand your type you should know which is

your main function. There are four types - intuitive, feeling,

thinking and sensation. You are born with all of these. One is the

major function, and only one. Two of these are opposite each other -

thinking and feeling are opposites and intuition and sensation are

opposites.

So, if you go back to Jung's work and the fuller test questions of

Meyers/Briggs you will find (for you) you are either a

thinking/intuitive or intuitive/thinker or feeling/intuitive or

intuitive/feeler.

The first function is your major way of perceiving and relating to

the world and is quite readily available. The second function is

usually also available. It is the fourth function we often have

trouble with. It is not easy to access and is often hidden in our

unconscious.

Jung emphasized that as we became " individualized " we could bring

each of the functions in to consciousness and have them available as

we need each one. But, we will aways find the fourth function more

difficult.

If you are called " the ice Queen " my guess is that feeling is your

fourth function and you are a thinking/intuitive.

It is important to not equate the thinking function with being

intellectual or " being in one's head " . The function is not what you

do with your head, but, how you perceive and react. (I am a

feeling/intuitive, thinking is my fourth function, yet, my head

never shuts up. I am constantly analyzing and synthesizing).

I hope this helps a bit in understanding the types.

> >

> > I am INFJ. When I did a Google search on " INFJ " , I found a site

> that

> > listed famous people with INFJ personality type, including

Chaucer,

> > Goethe, Ghandi, Luther King, Mandela, Eleanor

> Roosevelt,

> > Carl Yung, Mother , and President .

> >

> > Wishing you healing,

> >

> > Vickie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kurt,

I cant recall about the other axes, it was so long ago that I studied it, but it

is said to be possible to balance the I/E. It changed quite a bit for me over

the years, and that reflected my subjective sense of myself.

Adrienne

Re: CFS Personality Type Survey

Hi ,

Good points. The percentages are from the Wikipedia entry for the

Meyers-Briggs, so those may be off, hard to say. If you know of a

study showing more accurate numbers, I would gladly fix those.

I too wondered about the possibility of bias in the test, but believe

that for the most part this test has been validated for biases like

that. Or at least the official MB has been, I believe the MB type has

been shown to change very little over a lifetime.

Maybe the question is whether sickness like CFS changes our

personality, or actually strengthens it. For example, would an

extrovert when sick become an introvert? Or would they actually

become even more extroverted and need even more social support than

before?

The results are already showing a fascinating clustering.

--Kurt

> And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web

page:

> >

> > /surveys?id=2352297

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> > --Kurt

> >

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Kurt

You said some types need support groups. Do you have any idea which types

those are?

thanks.

Nil

RE: Re: CFS Personality Type Survey

>

>

> THANKS,

>

> Rosie

>

> Rosie,

> Just google 'ENFJ', there are dozens of very good websites discussing

> each type. Some types even have support groups (some types need them).

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

That helps a little. As you say perhaps others (whose work appears on

different sites) interpret these categories differently. BTW, if I'm

not very demonstrable with humans, but am utterly besotted and silly

with my feline acquaintances, does it make a difference? .. I assume

only if I re-took the test with my interaction with the animal

population in mind rather than humans?

It's a little schitzophrenic sp?) of me, and I can show lots of anger

based emotions, but I am really only sentimental with animals. But this

has nothing to do with having ME, I've always been like it.. but I did

have a rather Presbyterian upbringing which I was always at odds with so

that might answer a lot of questions ;-) !!

Rosie

Actually, Rosie, the Personality types are very accurate. I think

the fault lies in many groups and people trying fit them into

a " box " in hopes of helping more people understand the types. Much

like the generic horoscopes you read in the paper.

I am not familiar with the newer groups who are working with the

types. My background is with the work of Carl Jung and somewhat

with Meyers/Briggs.

In order to fully understand your type you should know which is

your main function. There are four types - intuitive, feeling,

thinking and sensation. You are born with all of these. One is the

major function, and only one. Two of these are opposite each other -

thinking and feeling are opposites and intuition and sensation are

opposites.

So, if you go back to Jung's work and the fuller test questions of

Meyers/Briggs you will find (for you) you are either a

thinking/intuitive or intuitive/thinker or feeling/intuitive or

intuitive/feeler.

The first function is your major way of perceiving and relating to

the world and is quite readily available. The second function is

usually also available. It is the fourth function we often have

trouble with. It is not easy to access and is often hidden in our

unconscious.

Jung emphasized that as we became " individualized " we could bring

each of the functions in to consciousness and have them available as

we need each one. But, we will aways find the fourth function more

difficult.

If you are called " the ice Queen " my guess is that feeling is your

fourth function and you are a thinking/intuitive.

It is important to not equate the thinking function with being

intellectual or " being in one's head " . The function is not what you

do with your head, but, how you perceive and react. (I am a

feeling/intuitive, thinking is my fourth function, yet, my head

never shuts up. I am constantly analyzing and synthesizing).

I hope this helps a bit in understanding the types.

> >

> > I am INFJ. When I did a Google search on " INFJ " , I found a site

> that

> > listed famous people with INFJ personality type, including

Chaucer,

> > Goethe, Ghandi, Luther King, Mandela, Eleanor

> Roosevelt,

> > Carl Yung, Mother , and President .

> >

> > Wishing you healing,

> >

> > Vickie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Perhaps other's interpretations are not so inaccurate as watered

down and simplified.

The fourth function is not missing - it is rather like a spoiled

or misbehaving child. It is not socialized to respond appropriately.

So, if we assume that feeling is your least accessible function,

feelings are not missing, but are not within your conscious control

and are not always accessible when a situation may call for a

feeling response.

Of course, our background influences what we think and how we

behave and may color our responses. I, too, was raised Presbyterian

and had many issues with the church. It didn't change my basic

personality - but, feeling different, I just learned to not express

my real self.

Another caveat: Just as you can't equate a thinking type with

using the brain, you can't equate the feeling type with emotions.

You can have feelings without emoting.

> > >

> > > I am INFJ. When I did a Google search on " INFJ " , I found a

site

> > that

> > > listed famous people with INFJ personality type, including

> Chaucer,

> > > Goethe, Ghandi, Luther King, Mandela, Eleanor

> > Roosevelt,

> > > Carl Yung, Mother , and President .

> > >

> > > Wishing you healing,

> > >

> > > Vickie

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Probably. When we lose a faculty we adapt by depending more on what we still

have.

Adrienne

Re: CFS Personality Type Survey

> My bad. Jung characterized six traits through his life time of studying

> people while the " J "

> and " P " came into view after his time to bring the total to eight. BTW,

> imaging studies

> now seem to verify the " J " as being strongly indicative of left brain

> dominance while the " P "

> means right brain dominance...Jung was an INTP(I think Cort on this list

> may be one as

> well, the most rare or least commonly found of the sixteen types).

>

>

>

> " davidhall2020 " <davidhall@...> wrote:

>>

>> Hi, Kurt.

>>

>>

>>

>> I think the results from this poll may be interesting. I also think

>> there is a mistake(not

> by

>> you) already in the percentages suggested are in the general poplulation

>> of each of the

>> sixteen temperments at the link that states them.

>>

>>

>>

>> Though probably not the most important issue to consider, the percentages

>> appear

>> dramatically off target based on my study of the cutting edge expert in

>> this arena

> named

>> Jon Niednagel. For instance, his empirical study of what he coins

>> braintypes

>> (www.braintypes.com) over the last thirty years of each of these original

>> Carl Jung

>> observations of eight mental traits(body traits also correlate) in people

>> shows the ENTP

> to

>> be the most common and commonly found among them.

>>

>>

>>

>> The other trouble for those who don't arleady know their temperment type

>> in this field

> is

>> two fold. One, typically people tend to want to answer the test

>> questions according to

>> how they would prefer to be viewed and even prefer to view themselves

>> though the test

> is

>> after empirical realities over perception.

>>

>>

>>

>> Throw sickness and long term sickness into this inherent bias we as

>> people have and

> you

>> can begin to see that skewed test results, particularly the " E " vs " I "

>> which technically

>> represents inherent energy expenditure preference an " E " has vs the

>> energy

> conservation

>> preference an " I " has, might readily occur. Also if I recall correctly,

>> it's very common for

>> inherent " T " (Thinkers) to want be viewed or view themselves as

>> " F " (Feelers) and the

>> converse is true as well.

>>

>>

>>

>> Niednagel has an interesting way to get away from these errors as noted

>> at his website

>> that I've found quite powerful. One key is realizing this specific area

>> of type testing and

>> what Jung was doing was NOT about trying to get at subject perceptions of

>> ourselves(ie,

>> what braintype we think or feel we are), but actual object trait

>> observations of the eight

>> originally characterized by Jung.

>>

>>

>>

>> The idea that these are genetically inherent and indellable, regardless

>> of nuture, seems

>> 100% accurate though of course these eight traits aren't all there is to

>> consider in a

>> persons make-up and environment can influence how they're expressed.

>> I look forward to this survey's results.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> " Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@> wrote:

>> And don't forget to vote! To vote, please visit the following web page:

>> >

>> > /surveys?id=2352297

>> >

>> > Thanks!

>> >

>> > --Kurt

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

[Guest guest]

Kurt-as I said in my last post, some/many of my answers to the

questions would have been different had I taken it 15 yrs ago,

before 'CFS', and I am not even one of the sickest-still working.

Don't you think it would be a good idea to ask people 'to try to

remember back before you were sick, and answer the questions

accordingly'? If not, why am I wrong? I think this kind of

questionaire would be useful, but it needs to be done right to

be as accurate as possible.

Mike C

In , " Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I just want to make a few comments on this thread. I originally

> posted the survey because I ran across studies of people with

> Depression, finding a statistically significant correlation with

their

> MBTI. Incidentally, their dominant type was ISFP, and a close

second

> was ESFP. I was not really expecting a result as dramatic as the

poll

> is showing now for CFS, we are clearly falling into the INFJ type,

or

> a closely related type.

>

> The general conclusion I draw from this type of correlation is that

> this provides some evidence that the illness has genetic

> characteristics, as the MBTI type of most people is at least partly

> genetically determined.

>

> But maybe there is more to learn here as well. My own speculation

is

> that aside from providing evidence of some type of genetic

involvement

> in CFS, that the INFJ type, or a closely related type, may be a

> personality that is more heavily burdened by neurotoxin illness,

due

> to being a more reflective personality, perhaps creating a higher

> stress perception. And perhaps this higher stress perception adds

to

> the glutathione depletion and other problems.

>

> Incidentally, I may post a similar poll to a large Lyme group.

> Given the simliarities between conditions, I think this could be an

> interesting comparison/contrast.

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

Mike C > Kurt-as I said in my last post, some/many of my answers to the

> questions would have been different had I taken it 15 yrs ago,

> before 'CFS', and I am not even one of the sickest-still working.

> Don't you think it would be a good idea to ask people 'to try to

> remember back before you were sick, and answer the questions

> accordingly'? If not, why am I wrong? I think this kind of

Certinaly a person could take the test and try to answer as they might

have earlier in life. In fact, in one study I read recently, spouses

are usually able to take the test for each other, and can very

accurately identify the partner's type. So if we seem to have the

ability to project how another person might test, I can imagine that

if we can create an acurate enough memory of the past we might do the

same for ourselves. But that I where I think there is some risk, this

requires an objective memory of the past. Given that this illness

involves memory issues, and also given that most memories are colored

by our present moods and views of reality, I don't know whether a

reconstructive test would be very accurate for PWC. But research

suggests that the MBTI is unusually stable.

Of course, you could just try and see what happens. Changing a few

answers might not make a big difference, maybe change one letter, for

example.

--Kurt