Re: Decreased Number of Natural Killer Cells/

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

It's just a very sketchy connection. The EMF hypothesis for CFS needs more

solid empirical data to make it work and more PWCs plainly noticing a problem

from EMF producing devices or environments, which they still in general don't

seem to be complaining after drawing their attention to the possiblity.

The glutathione depletion and methylation blocks are a far stronger hypothesis

vs EMFs for leading to CFS symptomatology(I for instance still use my cell phone

and am daily around other sources of EMFs, but my immunity(NKs I'm sure

especially) among several things have increased and improved with glutathione

repeletion and methylation treatments).

BTW since you appreciate the topic as do I, left brained researchers are more

adept at being aware of accuracy in empirical details and drawing logical

conclusions while right brained researchers are more adept at immediate

synthesis and projection of abstract hypothesis from available data(eg, Lowell

and Niednagel from braintypes.com). Whether both are aware of it or not,

Rich(left brained dominant) and Dr Cheney(right brained dominant) have worked

well as a team for us in CFS.

Another way of looking at it is

Dr Cheney is the one to get us in the ball park of what may causing CFS in most

while Rich has gotten us to round third base and very close, if not spot-on, to

reaching home base(bullseye!). Home base must be reached in order to claim

genuine success over CFS and the ideas that get us there must fit with the facts

in order to succeed as such.

My take is EMFs may to some degree contribute to some symptomatology in some

with CFS, but do EMFs cause CFS in anyone? There remains a very large chasm to

cross to make this claim with credibility.

" Doyon " <prd34@...> wrote:

>

> Dr. Goldberg in talking about Autism mentions a decrease in

> the number of Natural Killer Cells (a form of white blood cell - as

> we all know) and that this is linked to Viral Reactivation. In Japan,

> CFS was initially termed low Natural Killer Cell Disease or something

> like that.

>

> " Many of these children have a low number of Natural Killer (NK)

> cells, which are a more primitive immune system cell, responsible for

> clearing ÒradicalsÓ in our body, clearing foreign cells / cancerous

> cells, and considered a strong marker for a healthy or stressed

> immune system.ÊÊ These cells, when low in number, are now linked to

> viral reactivation in many auto-immune illnesses, and low NK cells

> has become an extremely strong marker in a subgroup of these

> children with . "

>

> Now, I don't know if anyone is making the connection here or not but

> this fits right in with Dr. Coghill's study which shows cell phone

> microwave radiation to destroy white blood cells:

>

> " His latest research suggests the microwaves generated by mobile

> phones may damage the ability of white blood cells to act as the

> " policemen " of the body, fighting off infection and disease.

>

> Mr Coghill took white blood cells, known as lymphocytes, from a

> donor, keeping them alive with nutritients and exposed them to

> different electric fields.

>

> He found that after seven-and-a-half hours, just 13% of the cells

> exposed to mobile phone radiation remained intact and able to

> function, compared with 70% of cells exposed only to the natural

> electromagnetic field produced by the human body. "

>

> Am I the only one making this connection?

>

> peace,

>

> paul

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My take on it is that EMF exposure leads to decreased NKCs (and

decreases in the function of other blood cells) which thus leads to

reactivated viruses and other infections which thus leads to

glutathione depletion. I don't think its one or the other here - but

rather time to move beyond dualistic thinking. Just putting the

pieces of the puzzle together. Right-brain synergetic thinking.

peace

paul

> >

> > Dr. Goldberg in talking about Autism mentions a decrease

in

> > the number of Natural Killer Cells (a form of white blood cell -

as

> > we all know) and that this is linked to Viral Reactivation. In

Japan,

> > CFS was initially termed low Natural Killer Cell Disease or

something

> > like that.

> >

> > " Many of these children have a low number of Natural Killer (NK)

> > cells, which are a more primitive immune system cell, responsible

for

> > clearing ?radicals? in our body, clearing foreign cells /

cancerous

> > cells, and considered a strong marker for a healthy or stressed

> > immune system.ÊÊ These cells, when low in number, are now

linked to

> > viral reactivation in many auto-immune illnesses, and low NK

cells

> > has become an extremely strong marker in a subgroup of these

> > children with . "

> >

> > Now, I don't know if anyone is making the connection here or not

but

> > this fits right in with Dr. Coghill's study which shows cell

phone

> > microwave radiation to destroy white blood cells:

> >

> > " His latest research suggests the microwaves generated by mobile

> > phones may damage the ability of white blood cells to act as the

> > " policemen " of the body, fighting off infection and disease.

> >

> > Mr Coghill took white blood cells, known as lymphocytes, from a

> > donor, keeping them alive with nutritients and exposed them to

> > different electric fields.

> >

> > He found that after seven-and-a-half hours, just 13% of the

cells

> > exposed to mobile phone radiation remained intact and able to

> > function, compared with 70% of cells exposed only to the natural

> > electromagnetic field produced by the human body. "

> >

> > Am I the only one making this connection?

> >

> > peace,

> >

> > paul

> >

>

[Guest guest]

btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty clear

cut to me.

peace,

paul

> > >

> > > Dr. Goldberg in talking about Autism mentions a

decrease

> in

> > > the number of Natural Killer Cells (a form of white blood cell

-

> as

> > > we all know) and that this is linked to Viral Reactivation. In

> Japan,

> > > CFS was initially termed low Natural Killer Cell Disease or

> something

> > > like that.

> > >

> > > " Many of these children have a low number of Natural Killer

(NK)

> > > cells, which are a more primitive immune system cell,

responsible

> for

> > > clearing ?radicals? in our body, clearing foreign cells /

> cancerous

> > > cells, and considered a strong marker for a healthy or stressed

> > > immune system.ÊÊ These cells, when low in number, are now

> linked to

> > > viral reactivation in many auto-immune illnesses, and low NK

> cells

> > > has become an extremely strong marker in a subgroup of these

> > > children with . "

> > >

> > > Now, I don't know if anyone is making the connection here or

not

> but

> > > this fits right in with Dr. Coghill's study which shows cell

> phone

> > > microwave radiation to destroy white blood cells:

> > >

> > > " His latest research suggests the microwaves generated by

mobile

> > > phones may damage the ability of white blood cells to act as

the

> > > " policemen " of the body, fighting off infection and disease.

> > >

> > > Mr Coghill took white blood cells, known as lymphocytes, from

a

> > > donor, keeping them alive with nutritients and exposed them to

> > > different electric fields.

> > >

> > > He found that after seven-and-a-half hours, just 13% of the

> cells

> > > exposed to mobile phone radiation remained intact and able to

> > > function, compared with 70% of cells exposed only to the

natural

> > > electromagnetic field produced by the human body. "

> > >

> > > Am I the only one making this connection?

> > >

> > > peace,

> > >

> > > paul

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

I think this is a reasonable hypothesis to suggest. I think the

next step with it would be to get quantitative, i.e., find out what

power level of microwave radiation was found to be deleterious to

the lymphocytes in Coghill's study. Then try to estimate what the

power level might be at the lymphocytes inside a person's body who

is exposed to the level of microwave radiation produced by a cell

phone near the body or by a cell phone antenna at whatever distance

you find sensitivity, and compare these levels.

One thing that needs to be taken into account in the second step is

the so-called " skin effect. " When microwaves encounter a conductor,

such as the human body, the induced currents are maximum at the

surface, and they die off very rapidly as you move into the

conductor. There is thus a shielding effect. It will be important

to take this into account.

There are lots of hypotheses that sound very reasonable at the

qualitative level, but when you get quantitative, they don't hold

up. I have had to dump a lot of hypotheses in my working life as a

scientist for this reason. Until you start putting numbers to a

hypothesis, you are really not doing science. Of course, this is

the most difficult part, since it's hard to make these estimates

with only the available data, and nobody will fund experiments to

get more data unless you already have a hypothesis that is fairly

firmly established. That's one of the things that makes scientific

research difficult. It's kind of like the situation that many of us

have faced in our lives: " You can't get a job without experience,

but you can't get experience without having a job. "

I do think this is a reasonable thing to look at, though.

You're right that others have been thinking about a connection

between CFS and autism, some for quite a while. I think it's an idea

whose time has come. Quite a few clinicians have had a hunch that

there was a connection, from what they see in patients. Concerning

Garth Nicolson, I have been in contact with him, including

concerning his thoughts about CFS and autism, for several years.

Concerning Goldberg, I joined his list sometime back,

and have been interacting with people there on this topic, also.

Laurette Janak began to see this connection independent of my work,

and then found it later on the internet. Sue T. reported that Amy

Yasko is going to come out with a book on it in a couple of months.

I've heard that the people at the U. of Sunderland in the U.K. have

also had some thoughts along these lines, though I haven't been able

to establish contact with them yet. This parallel is certainly not

original with me, but I think that the new thing is connecting the

glutathione depletion pathogenesis aspect in CFS that I had been

studying for a long time to the pathophysiology of autism that Jill

and others have been getting more hard data about recently. I

would say that this connection is getting more quantitative now.

And if people start to experience benefits from using the autism

treatments in CFS, as appears to be happening in a few cases so far,

I think that will attract more interest in the research and clinical

communities to this notion.

Rich

>

> btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

clear

> cut to me.

>

> peace,

>

> paul

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if heavy metal poisoning and infection makes cells more

vulnerable, permeable, etc, and more sensitive.

I know I cannot tolerate rife devices...not any of them.

I have a new cellphone with camera, video, etc. Unlike my previous

cellphones, I can feel this one when I hold it to my head. The side of

my head its on feels weird to me, sort of like it's being pushed on or

pulled on, in terms of my actual tissues. Since recent studies show

that cellphone fields can be excitatory to the brain, while you're

holding the cellphone, I'm sure something's going on--and that this

new phone, though it's like the phones everybody else now has, carries

a stronger field than my old one. So I got a bluetooth device, which

allows you to keep the phone in your purse, pocket, or up to 30 feet away.

My hunch is that our overall systems are just weaker and thus more

effected. I don't notice myself reacting to any other devices so there

is probably a bellcurve for each of us.

> >

> > btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

> clear

> > cut to me.

> >

> > peace,

> >

> > paul

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rich,

Thanks for your vote of confidence. I read somewhere that a reporter once asked

Einstein

what constituted " Scientific Proof " and he replied something like " I'm sorry

son, but that is

too difficult a question for me to answer. " He is also quoted as saying " What

you can

count, doesn't always count, and what counts you cannot always count. "

At any rate, from what I have seen and read out there, there is overwhelming

empirical

evidence - which supports the theoretical/hypothetical btw - out there regarding

this

issue and what it will take is someone compiling both the quantitative and the

qualitative

and putting the pieces of the puzzle together to present a case - that will

appeal to

people's common sense regarding the issue.

The lymphocyte " hypothesis " is just one small piece of a much larger picture.

Coghill, like other researchers who have come out suggesting with their research

that the

microwaves are dangerous has been attacked with attempts to discredit by a paid

army of

so-called " debunkers " working for the cell phone industry. But this is also part

of the

story. Why is their such a concerted attack on any researcher that comes out

with research

that says these things are dangerous - and why does the cell phone industry pay

lots of

other researchers a lot of money to tell me and you that these things are safe?

For me the above is like a murdurer hiring his own judge, prosecuter, and jury

to try his

own case. Seriously!

One must ask oneself why 6000 German doctors would come out and write the

Freidburger Appeal which states the following:

_ FREIBURGER APPEAL 9 October 2002

Out of great concern for the health of our fellow human beings do we - as

established

physicians of all fields, especially that of environmental medicine - turn to

the medical

establishment and those in public health and political domains, as well as to

the public.

We have observed, in recent years, a dramatic rise in severe and chronic

diseases among

our patients, especially:

E Learning, concentration, and behavioural disorders (e.g. attention deficit

disorder, ADD)

E Extreme fluctuations in blood pressure, ever harder to influence with

medications

E Heart rhythm disorders

E Heart attacks and strokes among an increasingly younger population

E Brain-degenerative diseases (e.g. Alzheimer|s) and epilepsy

E Cancerous afflictions: leukemia, brain tumors

Moreover, we have observed an ever-increasing occurrence of various disorders,

often

misdiagnosed in patients as psychosomatic:

E Headaches, migraines

E Chronic exhaustion

E Inner agitation

E Sleeplessness, daytime sleepiness

E Tinnitus

E Susceptibility to infection

E Nervous and connective tissue pains, for which the usual causes do not

explain even the

most conspicuous symptoms

Since the living environment and lifestyles of our patients are familiar to us,

we can see

especially after carefully-directed inquiry - a clear temporal and spatial

correlation

between the appearance of disease and exposure to pulsed high-frequency

microwave

radiation (HFMR), such as:

E Installation of a mobile telephone sending station in the near vicinity

E Intensive mobile telephone use

E Installation of a digital cordless (DECT) telephone at home or in the

neighbourhood

We can no longer believe this to be purely coincidence, for:

E Too often do we observe a marked concentration of particular illnesses in

correspondingly HFMR-polluted areas or apartments;

E Too often does a long-term disease or affliction improve or disappear in a

relatively short

time after reduction or elimination of HFMR pollution in the patient's

environment;

E Too often are our observations confirmed by on-site measurements of HFMR of

unusual

intensity._

Rich, I am of a social scientist per se, since I do enjoy research and puzzles

and making

connections which others don't see. I'll leave the quantitative research to

people like

yourself. I'm more interested in the common sense part of it all - in putting

the pieces

together. I'll leave the examination of the individual pieces to others with

that kind of

inclination.

Regards,

paul doyon

> >

> > btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

> clear

> > cut to me.

> >

> > peace,

> >

> > paul

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jill,

My common sense tells me that it would definitely do so. Chelating the metals

out of my

body (and removing my gold fillings) not only helped me recover from CFS but it

also

helped me with the electrosensitivity - in that I became less sensitive to EMFs.

It is natural

to assume that having metals in the body will turn the body into even more of an

antenna

than it already is.

paul

> > >

> > > btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

> > clear

> > > cut to me.

> > >

> > > peace,

> > >

> > > paul

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

" Doyon " <prd34@...> wrote:

>

> btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty clear

> cut to me.

***At least a few things are sketchy. As a cohort evidence is mounting and

many PWCs on this list have tested positive for predispositional genomics

towards poor methylation and low glutathione or namely SNPs that explain this.

This data you don't seem to have incorporated into your hypothesis.

***Synthesizing is great, but if you don't have access to or somenow miss

including all the present pieces of the puzzle available, your results will

likely be in error. Also, you don't seem to have been personally tested for low

blood volume, low red blood cell mass, orthostatic intolerance or diabetes

insipidus.

***These are common findings in PWCs that need explanation by a credible

hypothesis, but if you don't know you have these symptoms or don't know they

need explanation, this is a trouble spot in your notion of EMFs as cause of CFS.

Diabetes Insipidus(DI) specifically appears could explain your reactions to EMFs

and DI is a by product of oxidative stress upon the hypothalamus, reducing its

function.

***And oxidative stress is a by product of glutathione depletion, which the SNPs

being found in CFS can explain.

Pieces to the puzzle don't get more upstream than this.

***Have you tested for DI as such to rule it out and the SNPs for detox so you

can more credibly assert your notion of EMFs as the cause for CFS?

" Doyon " <prd34@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My take on it is that EMF exposure leads to decreased NKCs (and

> > decreases in the function of other blood cells) which thus leads to

> > reactivated viruses and other infections which thus leads to

> > glutathione depletion. I don't think its one or the other here -

> but

> > rather time to move beyond dualistic thinking. Just putting the

> > pieces of the puzzle together. Right-brain synergetic thinking.

> >

> > peace

> >

> > paul

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi, .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > It's just a very sketchy connection. The EMF hypothesis for CFS

> > needs more solid empirical data to make it work and more PWCs

> plainly

> > noticing a problem from EMF producing devices or environments,

> which

> > they still in general don't seem to be complaining after drawing

> > their attention to the possiblity.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The glutathione depletion and methylation blocks are a far

> stronger

> > hypothesis vs EMFs for leading to CFS symptomatology(I for instance

> > still use my cell phone and am daily around other sources of EMFs,

> > but my immunity(NKs I'm sure especially) among several things have

> > increased and improved with glutathione repeletion and methylation

> > treatments).

[Guest guest]

,

I don't believe that I have yet written a treatise on the subject -

but rather a simple email. When I write my book, I'll send you a copy

for critique. Let me know your address.

Hence, this doesn't preclude a genetic susceptibility or

predisposition to these diseases - or to microwaves for that matter.

(I would like to emphasize the " pre " in the word " predisposition.)

I'll be sure to include this in my book too though.

, I no longer have the symptoms (excessive thirst, frequent

urination) described in your DI. These went away when I took care of

my toxoplasmosa infection.

In fact, , unlike yourself, I no longer have CFS. I believe I

took care of it in little less than a year. So to do any tests now

would not only be a waste of money but also time. Also, you should

take into consideration, that people who get this disease are no

longer able to work and that the insurance schemes for many will not

pay for a lot of these tests.

btw, you still haven't told us what your profession was before you

became ill.

peace,

paul

> > > >

> > > > Hi, .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > It's just a very sketchy connection. The EMF hypothesis for

CFS

> > > needs more solid empirical data to make it work and more PWCs

> > plainly

> > > noticing a problem from EMF producing devices or environments,

> > which

> > > they still in general don't seem to be complaining after

drawing

> > > their attention to the possiblity.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The glutathione depletion and methylation blocks are a far

> > stronger

> > > hypothesis vs EMFs for leading to CFS symptomatology(I for

instance

> > > still use my cell phone and am daily around other sources of

EMFs,

> > > but my immunity(NKs I'm sure especially) among several things

have

> > > increased and improved with glutathione repeletion and

methylation

> > > treatments).

>

[Guest guest]

Yes...as we've heard those old stories about people's teeth becoming

radios!

What chelation protocol did you follow? Sorry if you've answered that

before but sometimes I skip posts.

I've started low doses of modifilan and seem to tolerate it fine.

> > > >

> > > > btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

> > > clear

> > > > cut to me.

> > > >

> > > > peace,

> > > >

> > > > paul

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

> > > > >

> > > > > btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

> > > > clear

> > > > > cut to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > peace,

> > > > >

> > > > > paul

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

" Doyon " <prd34@...> wrote:

>

> ,

>

> I don't believe that I have yet written a treatise on the subject -

> but rather a simple email. When I write my book, I'll send you a copy

> for critique. Let me know your address.

***Okay, so you're admitting to not being up-to-date on the data that doesn't

fit your hypothesis on CFS pathogenisis. I get it

> Hence, this doesn't preclude a genetic susceptibility or

> predisposition to these diseases - or to microwaves for that matter.

***If you were on top of the data I drew your attention to you would realize

that it does preclude microwaves as causal to CFS as a matter of fact. It is

also true, which maybe this is what been you've attempting to say, is the data

doesn't preclude EMFs as one of the potential downstream vicious circles in the

pathophysiology of CFS, but that's a different issue than pathogenesis.

***Both may need addressing as in my case:

***1) SNPs for low glutathione and status low glutathione= pathogenesis

***2) Deep tissue mercury toxicity as my downstream vicious circle among a few

other apparently less vicious circles= pathophysiology

***Distguishing different phases isn't dualized thinking, it's a very useful way

of recreating a problem in order to solve it. The whole and the component parts

consider together as well as seperately as they appear to exist serves synthesis

quite well.

(I would like to emphasize the " pre " in the word " predisposition.)

> I'll be sure to include this in my book too though.

***Pathogenic is the hypothesis on SNPs for CFS. Predisposition used so loosely

can easily begin to take on off-purpose but philosophically valid causes- cause

also used loosely.

, I no longer have the symptoms (excessive thirst, frequent

> urination) described in your DI. These went away when I took care of

> my toxoplasmosa infection.

***It's sounds as though you cured your having DI and this could be the source

of your recovery, not avoidance of EMFs. You're making my point!

In fact, , unlike yourself, I no longer have CFS. I believe I

took care of it in little less than a year. So to do any tests now

> would not only be a waste of money but also time.

***Understood. Your cured your CFS by handling an infection. It happens.

Also, you should take into consideration, that people who get this disease are

no longer able to work and that the insurance schemes for many will not pay for

a lot of these tests.

***I'm one of them, so why wouldn't I have taken this into consideration?

Like the testing for SNPs, organic acids and a few other tests I've had done,

the out of pocket paying for testing for DI has been one of the more insightful

things to have done twice and the second time told me I'm was on an effective

treatment path.

***It's one of the cheaper tests to have run. Also, like you, I've now

eliminated DI, though through deliberate repletion of glutathione. Effective

mercury chelation with DMPS is my focus now and my sense is this is the final

piece to conquering my CFS.(I'll meet you in Hawaii to celebrate our CFS

victories and we can debate hypothesis in person!

btw, you still haven't told us what your profession was before you

became ill.

***These never got off the ground enough to call them much more than burgeoning

interests, but one was consulting CEOs and business ventures in Silicon Valley

and the other involved auditioning for lead acting roles in TV and Film,

conducting business in the other " Silicone Valley " ! I was actually already

getting sick before these even came to mind to go for, but these were the

professions of interest.

> davidhall@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi, .

> >

> >

> >

> > " Doyon " <prd34@> wrote:

***Have you tested for DI as such to rule it out and the SNPs for

> detox so you can more credibly assert your notion of EMFs as the

> cause for CFS?

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

Whatever you say! I'll see you in Hawaii - but definitely not in Silicon Valley,

dude.

cheers,

paul

> ***Have you tested for DI as such to rule it out and the SNPs for

> > detox so you can more credibly assert your notion of EMFs as the

> > cause for CFS?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree that EMF's may play a part in many PWC's illnesses, but one must also

remember

that CFS has been around for hundreds of years.

Is it becoming more increasingly prevalent, or are we just learning now (because

of the

internet and other communication methods) that there are a lot of sick folk out

there that

may have been there before but we just didn't know about them?

d.

> > >

> > > btw, what is so sketchy about the connection? It seems pretty

> > clear

> > > cut to me.

> > >

> > > peace,

> > >

> > > paul

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>>>more PWCs plainly noticing a problem from EMF producing

devices or environments,which

they still in general don't seem to be complaining

after drawing their attention to the possiblity.<<<<<<

Are you referring to this list for your statement?

THere are hundreds of other CFS lists on-line.

The majority of PWCs are not on-line at all.

Especially the most severe, and the most effected by EMFs (cannot tolerate

computers)

The majority of this lists members are absent, lurking, and not posting.

Many topics here do not get a response, even if they are CFS, or personally

relevant.

{I so far, don't think CFS, except maybe a subset, is originally *Caused* by

EMFs.}

But, for the record, I DO have increasing obvious reactions and symptoms from

EMFs, including at the computer, even with monitor across the room. I'm sure

there are others who did not respond. It's been discussed on this list before,

including which equipment is most low-impact.

On EMF sensitive lists, there are numbers of PWCs severely effected by EMFs...

and some people who think it is causal,.... or at least... escalating sx, and

contributing more damage.

I see radical brain and physical changes in non-ME/CFS friends and families on

cell phones alot.

THere is more Science than we are led to believe on the dangers.

Hopefully, this isn't an area where we are buying most publicized " studies " ,

dismissing with the party line of " too soon to tell " , " not conclusive " , no

adverse effects, etc. Announcements often made/funded by EMF $$ makers. {ie:

more bodies must fall first }.

Did anyone here know that the " official " WHO statement, dismissing the risk of

cell phones, is largely influenced by a paper by Prof. Simon Wessley?

Of the " M.E. is a belief...the belief that one has a disease called M.E. "

statement.

ANd who is the " expert " continuously quoted who calls Gulf War Syndrome, Chronic

Fatigue Syndrome, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity

(including reactions to *acute* toxic exposures)....

Mass Hysteria

Avoidance Syndrome

PTSD

Rebellion against (Dr. ) authority

Escape from Modern Responsibilities

Manipulators of duped Physicians

The Wessely Camp (who cite anti-CBT advocates/websites as

" vitriolic " )

etc, etc,

Are having considerable influence on the new CDC definition of CFS that's in the

works.

Katrina

>

> Hi, .

>

>

>

> It's just a very sketchy connection.