Re: was rubella immunity question: now HHV-6

[Guest guest]

>You are so right , so many feel that children on the Autistic

Spectrum have a perpetual virus. Many believe the Herpes Virus 6

plays a big role. <

Tristan has been on an antiviral treatment targeting the HHV-6 virus since

January. The doctor in Austin believes that is the virus that is living in the

nerves and CNS and causing damage. He also is working with a doctor in Colorado

who detoxes kids for heavy metals. Tristan was one whose MT profile tests show

he is metal toxic also. The HHV-6 is very likely in Tristan's case. He had two

cases of Roseola before age 2 and it was very ill with them when they are not

supposed to cause severe illness.

[Guest guest]

, have you seen any change since being on the antiviral? I had

the failed Measles vaccine in the early '60's. I got a terrible case

of atypical measles. When I was older, I started breaking out in a

full body rash with a pretty significant fever. It would only last

for a day or two. Went to the hospital on one of these occasions, and

they couldn't come up with anything after all kinds of testing, and

sent me home with an antibiotic. About four years ago, I had

pityriasis rosea. After researching I found that the HHV-6 virus my

be implicated. When I was a senior in high school, my best friend

came down with the measles, (which she survived fine). The school

nurse was checking everyone looking inside their mouths. I learned

she was looking for Koplik spots. She sent me home, and said I

couldn't return until they were gone. Didn't give me any amount of

time or anything! She told me I was a carrier. I spoke to Dr. Yazbak

a few years ago, and he said that was rubbish, you cannot tell if

someone is a carrier by doing that. Just makes me wonder if I passed

it on to my kids. Thank goodness my youngest did not get the MMR.

> Tristan has been on an antiviral treatment targeting the HHV-6

virus since January. The doctor in Austin believes that is the virus

that is living in the nerves and CNS and causing damage. He also is

working with a doctor in Colorado who detoxes kids for heavy metals.

Tristan was one whose MT profile tests show he is metal toxic also.

The HHV-6 is very likely in Tristan's case. He had two cases of

Roseola before age 2 and it was very ill with them when they are not

supposed to cause severe illness.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>have you seen any change since being on the antiviral?<

Yes, but not extreme. He is saying many more words, mostly in echolaic fashion.

It does cause him to be more agitated (behavior issues, tantrums) but that is an

indication it is working (so says the doctor)

> I had

the failed Measles vaccine in the early '60's.<

My 26 year old daughter had the MMR at age 15 months and at 6 she had a bad case

of the measles

>About four years ago, I had

pityriasis rosea. After researching I found that the HHV-6 virus my

be implicated. When I was a senior in high school, my best friend

came down with the measles, (which she survived fine). The school

nurse was checking everyone looking inside their mouths. I learned

she was looking for Koplik spots. She sent me home, and said I

couldn't return until they were gone. Didn't give me any amount of

time or anything! She told me I was a carrier. I spoke to Dr. Yazbak

a few years ago, and he said that was rubbish, you cannot tell if

someone is a carrier by doing that. Just makes me wonder if I passed

it on to my kids. Thank goodness my youngest did not get the MMR.<

Hmm... What does the MMR have to do with HHV-6?

..

[Guest guest]

Hi , here is some info from Binstock on HHV-6 and the

MMR. There is more at the url that I didn't copy and paste.

http://members.jorsm.com/~binstock/fs-hhv6.htm

1 MMR/HHV-6: general considerations

>>> Posting number 25001,

dated 2 Oct 1997 14:37:47

Here are some thoughts about MMR and HHV-6. We must keep in mind that

each child is

different and that the timing during which a child might have

acquired HHV-6 will

differ from person to person. Therefore, the following comments

should be taken as

a general sketch, a starting point in trying to understand each

child's specific

case. We must also keep in mind that, in many individuals, there may

be more than

one virus, bacteria, and/or fungus present; and this kind of inter-

individual

variation is likely to be seen as differences in each child's

specific traits and

medical history. So, here are some thoughts centered upon MMR and HHV-

6.

1. Measles and measles vaccinations induce immunospression. This

is well known,

well documented; and a primary researcher in this is Diane E.

of s

Hopkins. (Cites will be in subseqeunt post).

2. HHV-6 is ubiquitous, many kids have it and handle it quite OK.

However, HHV-6

is also known to induce high fever and/or seizures in a goodly number

of kids. The

healthier a given child's immune system, the likelier that HHV-6 will

not cause

problems to that child.

3. At least hypothetically, the immunosuppression that accompanies

measles

vaccination would allow HHV-6 to blossom more fully within the child.

What might be

seen is roseola (aka exanthema subitum) and/or fevers and/or some

mild or not so

mild febrile convulsions. (some HHV-6 cites will be posted separately

too).

4. HHV-6 is also known to be able to produce its own

immunosuppression, and can

even find its way into bone marrow. In some children, the HHV-6

immunosuppression

would become additive with the immunosuppression already induced by

the measles

component of the MMR vaccination.

5. Giving MMR prior to the age of 12 months would seem to be a way

to ensure a

prolonged Transient Hypogammaglobulinemia of Infancy (pTHI), thereby

inducing

another kind of double immunosuppression -- that from the infant's

normal THI plus

that from measles-vaccination immunosuppression.

6. If a pregnant woman were to receive a measles vaccination, then

her

measles-related immunosuppression would increase the likelihood that

other viruses,

bacteria, and/or fungi would gain a foothold or (if present and

normally

immunosuppressed) to blossom in ways affecting fetal development.

7. The work of Tasnee Chonmaitree and colleagues has demonstrated

that many cases

of recurrent otitis media (rOM) are viral in origin. In a study of

271 kids with

rOM, 10 percent were found to have cytomegalovirus and/or herpes

simplex virus in

middle ear effusion (CMV, HSV, MEM). Her studies prove that, in some

kids, heavy

duty viruses can be present at an early age, even if the only symptom

is rOM.

8. HHV-6, CMV, and Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) are known to be able

to induce

immunosuppression. When Drs. Baker and find CMV in peripheral

blood, that is

a very important finding. Treating the CMV and reducing it or

eliminating it can

only help the child -- even if he or she has other viruses in the

CNS, viruses that

may not be detectable by peripheral measures or even via viral

culture of CSF.

9. If an infant has any of these viruses (eg, HHV-6, CMV, or EBV)

in his or her

system when the MMR is given, then (due to the immunosuppressivity of

the measles

component) that child would seem at risk for any of the three

immunosuppressive

viruses to become more entrenched and active.

10. HSV is a very special virus. It is present in some kids with

recurrent otitis

media (rOM), yet may remain within the CNS with *no* exterior

symptoms one the

otitis has subsided. Depending upon its route of entry (eg,

oral/gastrointestinal,

nasal-cativy, scraped skin, etc), HSV will travel to various parts of

the peripheral

and central nervous systems. Once there, if a child is

immunocompetent, the virus

may remain latent and, while latent, may induce no neuronal death.

11. If HSV is latently present in CNS neurons when the MMR is

given, two effects

are likely: (i) the measles-induced immunosupression may allow some

of the latent

HSV to become re-activated, and (ii) the MMR's induction of

interferon gamma (1)

ought lead to MHC-I presentation of viral particles upon the surface

of neurons,

which would then be killed by the person's own immune surveillance

processes.

Importantly, HSV is capable of migrating to neural substrates that

have been

identified in autism (eg, cerebellum and temporal lobe) and/or that

participate in

autistic traits -- eg, neuronal regions subserving language,

emotions, sensory

sensitivities, and direct eye-contact.

......Closing Comments.....

Each child is very different; each child's medical history prior to,

during, and

subsequent to the MMR is very different and ought be considered as

the tapestry in

which the MMR and HHV-6 occurred.

Several parental anecdotes have mentioned the temporal sequence

MMR followed

by signs of HHV-6. This is an extremely important relationship, and

possible causal

links were outlined in the first portion of this document. However,

each parent

would be well served to look for additional clues prior to and

subsequent to the

vaccination. Such introspection may generate additional clues

instructive regarding

the child's specific pathogenesis into autism and, most importantly,

may provide

clues towards designing the most effective treatments.

In other words, the link " MMR and HHV-6 " is important, but each

child's

medical history may have some additional clues that can be

considered --

eg, familial infections such as mononucleosis or herpes or?

eg, gastrointestinal problems in the child and/or in other members of

the

family or ?

eg, other?

These developments are very exciting and are occurring because of

each person's

committment to ask questions and to share. From the pioneers such as

Rimland, Baker,

Pangborn, and others, to the parents and a few researchers,

and a growing

number of parents-as-researchers, might we say,

Progress is being made and shall continue!

1) Pabst HF et al. Kinetics of immunologic responses after primary MMR

vaccination. Vaccine. 15(1):10-4, 1997 Jan.

" To study the kinetics of humoral as well as cellular immunity to

measles and to

test for associated immunosuppression 124 12 month old children were

studied twice,

before routine MMR and either 14, 22, 30, or 38 days after

vaccination...

Interferon-gamma was the principal cytokine produced after primary

measles

immunization... "

2 MMR/HHV-6: immune suppression by measles virus/vaccine

>>> Posting number 25023,

dated 2 Oct 1997 20:15:14

Measles virus can induce immune suppression, by vaccinations and/or

infection. The

first seven citations are by DE and colleagues. Cites 8 thru

10 are by other

groups researching immunosuppression caused by measles virus, whether

the

" wild-type " or the type found in certain vaccines.

<1> Karp CL. Wysocka M. Wahl LM. Ahearn JM. Cuomo PJ. Sherry B.

Trinchieri G. DE.

Mechanism of suppression of cell-mediated immunity by measles virus

Science. 273(5272):228-31, 1996 Jul 12.

<2> Hussey GD et al.

The effect of Edmonston-Zagreb and Schwarz measles vaccines on immune

response in infants.

Journal of Infectious Diseases. 173(6):1320-6, 1996 Jun.

<3> Auwaerter PG et al

Changes within T cell receptor V beta subsets in infants following

measles

vaccination.

Clinical Immunology & Immunopathology. 79(2):163-70, 1996 May.

<4> DE.

Immune responses during measles virus infection.

Current Topics in Microbiology & Immunology. 191:117-34, 1995.

<5> Ward BJ. DE.

Changes in cytokine production after measles virus vaccination:

predominant production of IL-4 suggests induction of a Th2 response.

Clinical Immunology & Immunopathology. 67(2):171-7, 1993 May.

<6> Wu VH. McFarland H. Mayo K. Hanger L. DE. Dhib-

Jalbut S.

Measles virus-specific cellular immunity in patients with vaccine

failure.

Journal of Clinical Microbiology. 31(1):118-22, 1993 Jan.

<7> DE et al

In vitro studies of the role of monocytes in the immunosuppression

associated with natural measles virus infections.

Clinical Immunology & Immunopathology. 45(3):375-83, 1987 Dec.

<8> Schnorr JJ et al.

Induction of maturation of human blood dendritic cell precursors by

measles virus [vaccine & wild type] is associated with

immunosuppression.

Proc of the National Acad of Sciences USA 94(10):5326-31 1997.

As well as inducing a protective immune response against

reinfection, acute

measles is associated with a marked suppression of immune functions

against

superinfecting agents and recall antigens, and this association is

the major cause

of the current high morbidity and mortality rate associated with

measles virus (MV)

infections. Dendritic cells (DCs) are antigen-presenting cells

crucially involved

in the initiation of primary and secondary immune responses, so we

set out to define

the interaction of MV with these cells. We found that both mature and

precursor

human DCs generated from peripheral blood monocytic cells express the

major MV

protein receptor CD46 and are highly susceptible to infection with

both MV vaccine

(ED) and wild-type (WTF) strains, albeit with different kinetics.

Except for the

down-regulation of CD46, the expression pattern of functionally

important surface

antigens on mature DCs was not markedly altered after MV infection.

However,

precursor DCs up-regulated HLA-DR, CD83, and CD86 within 24 h of WTF

infection and

72 h after ED infection, indicating their functional maturation. In

addition,

interleukin 12 synthesis was markedly enhanced after both ED and WTF

infection in

DCs. On the other hand, MV-infected DCs strongly interfered with

mitogen-dependent

proliferation of freshly isolated peripheral blood lymphocytes in

vitro. These data

indicate that the differentiation of effector functions of DCs is not

impaired but

rather is stimulated by MV infection. Yet, mature, activated DCs

expressing MV

surface antigens do give a negative signal to inhibit lymphocyte

proliferation and

thus contribute to MV-induced immunosuppression.

<9> Aaby P.

Assumptions and contradictions in measles and measles immunization

research: is measles good for something?.

Social Science & Medicine. 41(5):673-86, 1995 Sep.

Measles infection, the major cause of childhood mortality among

infections

preventable by immunization, has been considered to kill mainly young

and

malnourished children. Assuming that mainly 'weak' children are saved

by

immunizations, it has been speculated that the impact on survival of

immunization

is likely to be limited because the malnourished children are more

prone to die of

other infections. However, recent studies from developing countries

have suggested

that host factors may not be the most important determinants of acute

and long-term

mortality after measles infection. Instead, it was found that

infection contracted

after exposure at home infection contracted from someone outside the

home.

Furthermore, measles is particularly severe if contracted from

someone of the

opposite sex. Hence transmission factors, in particularly intensity

of exposure and

cross-sex transmission, may be more important determinants of measles

mortality than

the determinants of measles mortality than the host factors usually

emphasized.

Consistent with these observations and in contrast to assumptions

about 'weak'

children dying, immunization is associated with a major reduction in

mortality.

Since measles immunization is associated with a 30% reduction in

mortality or more,

the impact is much larger than should be expected from the proportion

of all deaths

attributed to measles. It has therefore been suggested that measles

immunization may

prevent the persistent immunosuppression and delayed mortality

assumed to be

associated with measles. However, several observations contradict the

common

understanding that the function of measles immunization is only to

prevent the acute

and long-term mortality associated with measles infection. Recently,

the high-titre

measles immunization recommended by WHO was found to be associated

with reduced

survival for female recipients compared with girls who have received

the standard

low-dose measles vaccine, and this difference in survival was not due

to suboptimal

protection against measles infection. Contrary to usual assumptions.

against measles

infection. Contrary to usual assumptions, standard low-dose measles

vaccine reduces

mortality even more when given before 9 months of age, the age

currently recommended

by WHO. The beneficial impact of standard vaccine is apparently

temporary, lasting

1 to 2 years, whereas it should increase with the age of the child.

The beneficial

effect seems to be particularly strong for girls. The most likely

interpretation of

these observations, is that standard low-dose measles vaccine has a

non-specific

beneficial effect. Contrary to current assumptions, children who

survive the acute

phase of measles infection may have a survival advantage compared

with unimmunized,

uninfected children...

<10> Smedman L et al.

Immunosuppression after measles vaccination.

Acta Paediatrica. 83(2):164-8, 1994 Feb.

The influence of conventional live attenuated measles vaccine on

cellular immune

responsiveness was investigated in Sweden and Guinea-Bissau. Sixteen

children in a

residential area in Bissau and 16 living in southern Stockholm were

examined before

and 8-10 days after vaccination... These observations may be relevant

to the

increased mortality found in children immunized with high-titre

measles vaccines,

as compared to controls, in recent studies...

eofPOSTING HISTORY

>>> Posting number 22687, dated 6 Sep 1997 09:04:25

Sender: SJU Autism and Developmental Disablities List

From: Binstock

Subject: Vaccinations and/or HHV-6, autism & herpes

>>> Posting number 22694, dated 6 Sep 1997 10:27:11

Sender: SJU Autism and Developmental Disablities List

From: Binstock

Subject: 2 Vaccinations and/or HHV-6, autism & herpes

>>> Posting number 25001, dated 2 Oct 1997 14:37:47

Sender: SJU Autism and Developmental Disablities List

From: Binstock

Subject: 1 MMR/HHV-6: general considerations

>>> Posting number 25023, dated 2 Oct 1997 20:15:14

Sender: SJU Autism and Developmental Disablities List

From: Binstock

Subject: Re: 2 MMR/HHV-6: immune suppression by measles

virus/vaccine

> Hmm... What does the MMR have to do with HHV-6?

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