Re: CFS protocol. - NICO - Warning!!!!

[Guest guest]

Blake,

I would sincerely ask that you do a whole lot more research, talk to

patients, etc. before posting the following link as your only

resource for a very complex & controversial subject. In fact, the

subject you're attempting to appear knowledgeable on is a

potentially deadly disease and should not be glossed over or treated

lightly. As the sole link provided, you are succumbing to and

promoting a marketing-saavy dentist (one of the founders of the NICO

movement) who doesn't need any more promotion.

To patients: If you had the same exact condition in any other bone

in your body, and you received the kind of treatment that is

commonly practiced by " NICO specialists " it would be considered

malpractice. And you'd probably end up with an amputation or worse.

If you dig a little, you'll see that there's been an ongoing legal

battle raging around NICO treatment. The battle includes charges

around the CAVITAT diagnostic device and insurance fraud. Many of

the NICO specialists were recently named as defendants in a

racketeering lawsuit and rumor has it that there were recent FBI

raids on the offices of one of the major players. I have not

confirmed this rumor. Unfortunately, due to the legal actions

brought by the investors in CAVITAT, at least one very fine & caring

doctor (researcher/pathologist) has had his reputation tarnished

simply by association.

In my view, this legal battle is not merely persecution by the

medical establishment. Motivations aside (which you can be sure are

monetary on both sides), those of us who have been down this road,

many of whom have been made sicker by inadequate " NICO " treatment,

have come to believe that dentists are not capable of treating the

very real and serious disorders of chronic osteomyelitis and chronic

osteonecrosis of the jaw (which they call " NICO " ). Not only do we

believe that the diagnostic measures used are suspect (the CAVITAT

is still considered experimental & questionable re: reproducible

results), just mentioning the term NICO will get you laughed out of

a doctor's office. The bottom line is, " NICO " definitely doesn't

help our credibility, or get us the treatment we really need, which

should be performed by a team of doctors; a surgeon, an infectious

disease doc, & an ENT (not a dentist!), and should include

debridement, i.v. antibiotics, anticoagulant therapy and possibly

hyperaric oxygen treatment. This is how all other bone infections

and necrosis are correctly dealt with.

penny

p.s. before agreeing to allow a dentist to perform " NICO " surgery on

your jaw, please do your homework and study how orthopedists treat

bone infections. And locate " NICO " patients who can tell you both

sides of the story. Be sure you talk to patients who are more than 6

months out of surgery. My experience has been that far more people

report devastatingly bad results rather than good.

>

> Hi Sara,

>

> thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

>

[Guest guest]

--Penny,

You seem to have a bit of a downer on Dentists! Before Evonne

replies I have to say I dont think they are all the devil incarnate!

Admittedly good ones are hard to find but hey that just makes the

search more rewarding.

Sure find one that's recommended. Dr Klinghardt recommends Dr Hussar

etc.

The Cavitat is found useful by some dentists.

sunny thoughts,

wallace

- In , " penny " <pennyhoule@...>

wrote:

>

> Blake,

>

> I would sincerely ask that you do a whole lot more research, talk

to

> patients, etc. before posting the following link as your only

> resource for a very complex & controversial subject. In fact, the

> subject you're attempting to appear knowledgeable on is a

> potentially deadly disease and should not be glossed over or

treated

> lightly. As the sole link provided, you are succumbing to and

> promoting a marketing-saavy dentist (one of the founders of the

NICO

> movement) who doesn't need any more promotion.

>

> To patients: If you had the same exact condition in any other bone

> in your body, and you received the kind of treatment that is

> commonly practiced by " NICO specialists " it would be considered

> malpractice. And you'd probably end up with an amputation or worse.

>

> If you dig a little, you'll see that there's been an ongoing legal

> battle raging around NICO treatment. The battle includes charges

> around the CAVITAT diagnostic device and insurance fraud. Many of

> the NICO specialists were recently named as defendants in a

> racketeering lawsuit and rumor has it that there were recent FBI

> raids on the offices of one of the major players. I have not

> confirmed this rumor. Unfortunately, due to the legal actions

> brought by the investors in CAVITAT, at least one very fine &

caring

> doctor (researcher/pathologist) has had his reputation tarnished

> simply by association.

>

> In my view, this legal battle is not merely persecution by the

> medical establishment. Motivations aside (which you can be sure are

> monetary on both sides), those of us who have been down this road,

> many of whom have been made sicker by inadequate " NICO " treatment,

> have come to believe that dentists are not capable of treating the

> very real and serious disorders of chronic osteomyelitis and

chronic

> osteonecrosis of the jaw (which they call " NICO " ). Not only do we

> believe that the diagnostic measures used are suspect (the CAVITAT

> is still considered experimental & questionable re: reproducible

> results), just mentioning the term NICO will get you laughed out of

> a doctor's office. The bottom line is, " NICO " definitely doesn't

> help our credibility, or get us the treatment we really need, which

> should be performed by a team of doctors; a surgeon, an infectious

> disease doc, & an ENT (not a dentist!), and should include

> debridement, i.v. antibiotics, anticoagulant therapy and possibly

> hyperaric oxygen treatment. This is how all other bone infections

> and necrosis are correctly dealt with.

>

> penny

>

> p.s. before agreeing to allow a dentist to perform " NICO " surgery

on

> your jaw, please do your homework and study how orthopedists treat

> bone infections. And locate " NICO " patients who can tell you both

> sides of the story. Be sure you talk to patients who are more than

6

> months out of surgery. My experience has been that far more people

> report devastatingly bad results rather than good.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi Sara,

> >

> > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Before seeing Dr. Hussar, I'd look up a bunch of his old patients. I

can give you some names.

I'm getting concerned. Everybody just accepts what everyone else

says. People are creating " protocols " based on nothing much more

than hype and marketing. Protocols are being devised that include

everything AND the kitchen sink.

Please, please, please, do your homework before jumping into

anything. Especially if it's something that's been around a while,

like NICO. If you don't, then nobody to blame but yourself.

penny

> > >

> > > Hi Sara,

> > >

> > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wallace,

I very much agree with you!

I was diagnosed on the computron (not Cavitat). This was

reinforced with ART testing. They both picked up the same areas -

all 18!

I was treated by a dentist who had trained with Dr. Klinghardt.

I felt so much better after the treatments. Sharp pains in head

were gone, heaviness in head gone, some of the brain fog gone.

It was such a relief to have those infections taken care of.

My dentist also used Sanum Remedies from Germany which were

injected into the site of the infection. This helped tremendously.

I've found that almost all protocols - whether dental or

physical - are very dependent on the skill of the practitioner.

Reading the Cavitat and treating cavitations certainly fall into

this category.

> > >

> > > Hi Sara,

> > >

> > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, what you say about the skill of the technician is certainly

important, but not if the tools used are questionable to begin with.

I have a family member who is a research scientist who worked in

diagnostic imaging development for Xeorox and Dupont. He looked at

the CAVITAT and said 'interesting concept, but not ready for prime

time (in his opinion)'. In my understanding, not only does it use a

kind of ultrasound principle which is generally used for tissue due

to it's inaccuracy when bone is involved, but since gettting the

image is completely dependent on how the contacts are placed,

doesn't it seem it would take some extensive training to use such a

device? And also, since the contacts can be placed differently,

wouldn't this explain why people get very different test results

from different dentists? And lastly, have you asked the dentists who

purchase the CAVITAT, exactly how much training they have before

using this imaging device?

You should ask these questions.

This is my life. A good friend of mine, a dentist himself, died from

this bad treatment. By the time he realized what was really

happening, the infection had spread to his brain, due to over

zealous surgery. He suddenly started having seizures. He was trying

to explain the seriousness of this condition at a dental conference

when he had a seizure and died. You'd be very surprised to know who

his " doctors " were. (Actually, they were dentists, who don't know

the first thing about bacterial infections).

Also, you claim your infections are " gone " and yet you're still

frequenting a CFS forum. Infections in the jaw don't necessarily

manifest as pain. The extreme debridement that most of these doctors

do, and the lack of good follow up with serious antibiotic

treatment, combined with lack of blood and oxygen in the region,

just allows the infection to spread deeper into the bone.

Everyone who considers such treatment needs to do their homework, as

should practitioners who refer patients to them. Talk to patients

who've actually been there before getting distracted by flowery

promises.

penny

> > > >

> > > > Hi Sara,

> > > >

> > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

P.S. , you mention that 18 of your teeth were dx'd as infected.

I assume you had them all removed? See this is a problem, since you

might have gone to another " docter " and he would have gotten a

completely different result. This is exactly what's happened to

friends of mine, and to dentists who used the CAVITAT and stopped,

because of these kinds of discrepancies.

And p.p.s. If you had 18 infected teeth, doesn't this tell you

something about your susceptibility to infection?

> >

> > --Penny,

> >

>

[Guest guest]

---Well done !

A nice postive story!

Ken has agreed to add the Klinghardt protoCol to his survey of

protocols when he gets the chance as I know your positive results are

not unique!

Dentists can help us get us out of this hole! Weston Price for one!

Sunny thoughts,

wallace

In , " marypmichel "

<marypmichel@...> wrote:

>

> Wallace,

> I very much agree with you!

> I was diagnosed on the computron (not Cavitat). This was

> reinforced with ART testing. They both picked up the same areas -

> all 18!

> I was treated by a dentist who had trained with Dr. Klinghardt.

> I felt so much better after the treatments. Sharp pains in

head

> were gone, heaviness in head gone, some of the brain fog gone.

> It was such a relief to have those infections taken care of.

> My dentist also used Sanum Remedies from Germany which were

> injected into the site of the infection. This helped tremendously.

>

> I've found that almost all protocols - whether dental or

> physical - are very dependent on the skill of the practitioner.

> Reading the Cavitat and treating cavitations certainly fall into

> this category.

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Hi Sara,

> > > >

> > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I really didn't want to get involved in this discussion, Penny, but I

personally know people who have recovered from, for instance, severe

Parkinson's to the point where they were bedridden/in a wheelchair,

after having infected teeth removed and mushy bone taken out. They

were on antibiotics prophylactically and for a few weeks after, not

years. There have been some miraculous recoveries.

Thanx...I won't comment further on it but it can be done and done well

without massive doses of abx. It can also be messed up by those not

very well trained.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Sara,

> > > > >

> > > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny,

I wasn't totally disagreeing with you.

There is a Cavitat at the Clinic I go to. I know the dentist and

wouldn't touch him or the Cavitat with a ten foot pole.

All too often alternative practitioners take a weekend workshop

and buy the machine and begin using it with little experience.

I completely agree that one should question the doctor/dentist as

much as one can (we don't always know everything ahead of time to

ask about). And get referrals when possible.

Also true that infections in the jaw don't always produce pain. I

had pain in one area and the rest were not painful. I had long had

head issues (not being able to hold my head up, sharp pains, some

teeth pain, horrible brain fog, etc.) My doctor referred me to the

Computron Doctor. At that point it was my only choice. I drove 45

minutes to get to her and spent the time with my head on her desk.

then got home by the grace of God. She referred me to a dentist

with whom I had a consultation. Wouldn't go back to him. So, found

another and spoke at length with him. This was after numerous

surgeries and extractions.

And the regular surgeon didn't really know how infections long

fester after surgery. He did the best he could, and was very good

for a regular surgeon, but, it was the alternative dentist who truly

understood the pathways of infections and the areas of hidden

infection.

Your warnings are appropriate - but, sometimes we have to go with

the best we can find. Right now I'm without a doctor and can't find

one.

My jaw bone infections ARE gone. I have them checked regularly.

Are you equating jaw bone infections with CFS????? Not so - at least

for me!! I frequent this group because there are so many extremely

gracious and bright people here with loads of ideas and

information. I am very sick and get a lot of ideas to try. ( Your

comment an this came across as very abrasive - I choose not to take

it personally).

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi Sara,

> > > > >

> > > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny,

I had 18 JAW BONE infections. Many teeth have been pulled but,

not all. Before using this protocol I had had an eye tooth pulled

years before and the regular dentist removed a huge cyst from that

area twice. Now - that was the absolutely worst experience ever!!!!

What other kind of results are you referring to? What

discrepancies? What are you suggesting as an alternative? I'd love

to know what else is " out there " .

I wrote a very long time ago that I follow the pleomorphic

principles. I had Sanum Remedies injected directly into my jaw bone,

a few places had to be done more than once. This was a form of

antibiotic and did save some of my teeth. This worked for me but it

doesn't mean it's for everyone, I know.

Yes, my immune system is screwed up. My CFS began with a car

accident, then mold and CO hits over long periods. I think

infections from previous extractions had been held in check until

this assault. I also think I inherited weak teeth (Celtic

background). Spent my life at the dentist for fillings (yes,

mercury - mouth was filled with it).

For me - this has been a multi-dimensional illness.

> > >

> > > --Penny,

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

All depends on your definition of " recovery " and also whether these

people had CFS or FMS to begin with.

I'm not saying some people don't get lucky, or have amazing self

healing abilities post surgery. But the only miraculous recovery I

know of writes numerous articles for one of the famous NICO docs,

and from what I'm told, she's going in for yet another surgery in

the next couple of weeks. Some miracle.

I'm not against the concept, but I'm against being treated by

unqualified people. I hate to tell you, but that's the majority. I

will be happy to provide you with names of people (the ones who are

still alive) and they can share their stories.

penny

This is not directed at you, Jill, but I'm amazed at how people

would still rather shoot the messenger, than try to figure out

whether the message might be real. I'm not sharing this stuff

because I like to hear myself talk. I'm trying to help prevent

misery and suffering. Might as well just give up, for all the good

it does me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Sara,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm new here. Could you please tell me what NICO docs are?

penny <pennyhoule@...> wrote: All depends on your definition of

" recovery " and also whether these

people had CFS or FMS to begin with.

I'm not saying some people don't get lucky, or have amazing self

healing abilities post surgery. But the only miraculous recovery I

know of writes numerous articles for one of the famous NICO docs,

and from what I'm told, she's going in for yet another surgery in

the next couple of weeks. Some miracle.

I'm not against the concept, but I'm against being treated by

unqualified people. I hate to tell you, but that's the majority. I

will be happy to provide you with names of people (the ones who are

still alive) and they can share their stories.

penny

This is not directed at you, Jill, but I'm amazed at how people

would still rather shoot the messenger, than try to figure out

whether the message might be real. I'm not sharing this stuff

because I like to hear myself talk. I'm trying to help prevent

misery and suffering. Might as well just give up, for all the good

it does me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Sara,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

NICO - Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational Necrosis (meaning pain caused

by cavitations that have become necrotic). Cavitations can be old

dental extraction sites (like wisdom teeth removal) or infected root

canals.

This is a highly controversial subject. Don't mention it to an oral

surgeon if you're wanting to be treated by him/her. Many of these

docs have been cited in lawsuits, justified or not, but still

damaging to the credibility of our real illness.

I don't have a problem with the basic concept of NICO (it's not

really new, just research osteomyelitis and chronic osteomyelitis or

osteonecrosis). I DO have a problem with the way they treat it,

which is nowhere close to how an Orthopedist and Infectious Disease

Doc would treat Osteomyelitis or Osteonecrosis of any other bones in

your body. These guys aren't trained to understand the bacteria

causing the bone infection, and in my opinion often do more harm

than good with surgery that is far too agressive without proper

complementary and follow up treatment. A person with a bone

infection in their foot, hip, or knee, will most likely be under

intensive treatment for a year or more. Their INR (blood clotting)

is monitored closely. They receive multiple antibiotic therapy and

antibiotics are rotated. They may also receive hydrotherapy for

circulation and/or hyperbaric treatments. This is how serious this

illness is and how expensive it can be to treat (which is why it's

being ignored by mainstream medical). Unfortunately, NICO docs treat

the bone infections in your head, near your brain and sinuses and

the largest nerve in your body (trigeminal, going directly to the

brain), with close proximity to your spinal cord and glands and they

treat for a day or two and send you on your way. Compare that to

treatment for a foot infection and what do you seriously think the

chances are for a great outcome?

penny

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi Sara,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > thanks. the dental link was supposed to be

> > > > > > http://www.drshankland.com/osteocavitation_lesions.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences

with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested

in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

OK. OK. Blake step aside. I'll take the heat for this one.

I'm the one who's responsible for Blake's link to Shankland's

site, as I'm the one who sent it to him, and I'm the one who

pointed out to him the omission of dental infections

from his site.

I was neglegent (Sorry about that Blake). I should have sent

him additional links. I was being lazy.

On the plus side, I wanted to get this issue on the

radar screen. For most people in conventional society, and

even in medicine and denistry, O.J. is not even in their vocabulary.

They think O.J. stands for some sports hero, who murdered his wife

with a knife, and got away with it.

If more people started inquiring to the their doctors

and dentists about O.J., then eventually the tide might begin to

turn. Bad call on my part. Like Dr. Baker notes in the

Pangborn/Baker book recommended by Rich, there is a vast gulf between

public policy and private policy. In that gap, patients fall and die.

My recommendation of the link to Shankland's site was public

policy on my part. At least, there one can see pictures of O.J./

caviations. Then when a patient gets laughed out their dentist's

office for bringing up the O.J. subject, they can think, " But, I saw

the pictures.... There were holes in those peoples' heads.... "

To correct myself, and my sincere apologies to Blake, and anyone

else who may have been led astray by this, I basically agree with

everything Penny has said. In fact, here is a link to the rest

of the story:

http://forums.delphiforms.com/jawosteo/start

I will send this link to Blake at his site also.

People on the Delphi Forum are generally in agreement with everything

Penny has said in her post below. And if she has additional links

in a similar vein, I wish she would post them, as well as send

them to me privately for my files. I simply haven't seen them.

Have people gotten well from O.J. under Dr. Shankland's care?

I don't know? It seems to be a topic of debate that arouses

controversy. Some say

that he is improving his methods over time. I would say that

the recent printout I got from his office was pretty up to date

in most respects. Others seem less forgiving than I toward

him, esp. around the issue of abx's and involving a team approach,

as Penny mentioned.

Personally, I am not an O.J. expert. Others would be much

better consultants on this subject, it's various personalities, and

possible approaches, than I. Again my apologies for supplying

incomplete information to Blake.

Zippy

--------------------

Blake,

> > > > >

> > > > > I would sincerely ask that you do a whole lot more

research,

> > > talk

> > > > to

> > > > > patients, etc. before posting the following link as your

> only

> > > > > resource for a very complex & controversial subject. In

> fact,

> > > the

> > > > > subject you're attempting to appear knowledgeable on is a

> > > > > potentially deadly disease and should not be glossed over

or

> > > > treated

> > > > > lightly. As the sole link provided, you are succumbing to

> and

> > > > > promoting a marketing-saavy dentist (one of the founders of

> > the

> > > > NICO

> > > > > movement) who doesn't need any more promotion.

> > > > >

> > > > > To patients: If you had the same exact condition in any

> other

> > > bone

> > > > > in your body, and you received the kind of treatment that

is

> > > > > commonly practiced by " NICO specialists " it would be

> > considered

> > > > > malpractice. And you'd probably end up with an amputation

or

> > > worse.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you dig a little, you'll see that there's been an

ongoing

> > > legal

> > > > > battle raging around NICO treatment. The battle includes

> > charges

> > > > > around the CAVITAT diagnostic device and insurance fraud.

> Many

> > > of

> > > > > the NICO specialists were recently named as defendants in a

> > > > > racketeering lawsuit and rumor has it that there were

recent

> > FBI

> > > > > raids on the offices of one of the major players. I have

not

> > > > > confirmed this rumor. Unfortunately, due to the legal

> actions

> > > > > brought by the investors in CAVITAT, at least one very fine

> &

> > > > caring

> > > > > doctor (researcher/pathologist) has had his reputation

> > tarnished

> > > > > simply by association.

> > > > >

> > > > > In my view, this legal battle is not merely persecution by

> the

> > > > > medical establishment. Motivations aside (which you can be

> > sure

> > > are

> > > > > monetary on both sides), those of us who have been down

this

> > > road,

> > > > > many of whom have been made sicker by inadequate " NICO "

> > > treatment,

> > > > > have come to believe that dentists are not capable of

> treating

> > > the

> > > > > very real and serious disorders of chronic osteomyelitis

and

> > > > chronic

> > > > > osteonecrosis of the jaw (which they call " NICO " ). Not only

> do

> > > we

> > > > > believe that the diagnostic measures used are suspect (the

> > > CAVITAT

> > > > > is still considered experimental & questionable re:

> > reproducible

> > > > > results), just mentioning the term NICO will get you

laughed

> > out

> > > of

> > > > > a doctor's office. The bottom line is, " NICO " definitely

> > doesn't

> > > > > help our credibility, or get us the treatment we really

> need,

> > > which

> > > > > should be performed by a team of doctors; a surgeon, an

> > > infectious

> > > > > disease doc, & an ENT (not a dentist!), and should include

> > > > > debridement, i.v. antibiotics, anticoagulant therapy and

> > > possibly

> > > > > hyperaric oxygen treatment. This is how all other bone

> > > infections

> > > > > and necrosis are correctly dealt with.

> > > > >

> > > > > penny

> > > > >

> > > > > p.s. before agreeing to allow a dentist to perform " NICO "

> > > surgery

> > > > on

> > > > > your jaw, please do your homework and study how

orthopedists

> > > treat

> > > > > bone infections. And locate " NICO " patients who can tell

you

> > > both

> > > > > sides of the story. Be sure you talk to patients who are

> more

> > > than

> > > > 6

> > > > > months out of surgery. My experience has been that far more

> > > people

> > > > > report devastatingly bad results rather than good.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Zippy, thanks for the clarification. I agree with you completely

that it needs to be brought onto the radar. As you know, this is an

issue close to my heart as I've had one friend die and several more

become completely disabled after surgeries gone wrong, not to

mention so many who have gotten worse.

I'd also just like to add that no matter how well written a website

might be, what actually goes on in treatment can be 2 very different

things. It's important to talk to patients as well.

Another website that's got great marketing behind it and seems to

cover so many bases on infection is this one:

http://www.thearthritiscenter.com/arthritis_info.htm

It's a very informative and convincing site, and I'd love for more

people to see it, yet the reality is less than the hype. After

extensive testing, I was told they don't know anything about

treating osteomyelitis, even though it's listed on the website. A

couple thousand dollars worth of tests later, I was told that I just

need to improve my sleep and was charged for fibromyalgia

supplements that I specifically said I didn't want. They were mailed

to me anyway.

However, it's a great and informative website, I'll give them that.

penny

<zippy890@...> wrote:

>

> OK. OK. Blake step aside. I'll take the heat for this one.

>

>

> On the plus side, I wanted to get this issue on the

> radar screen. For most people in conventional society, and

> even in medicine and denistry, O.J. is not even in their

vocabulary.

> They think O.J. stands for some sports hero, who murdered his wife

> with a knife, and got away with it.

>

> If more people started inquiring to the their doctors

> and dentists about O.J., then eventually the tide might begin to

> turn. Bad call on my part.