Re: ADH, Diabetes Insipidus, Dr. Shoemaker?

[Guest guest]

What do you suggest to treat this? Does reducing refined sugar

intake help? What about taking arginine? How is Diabetes Insipidus

diagnosed?

Dr. Shoemaker mentions low ADH in " Mold Warriors, " and says on page

537:

" Correct pituitary/peripheral hormone problems. Maybe all you need

to do is supplement DHEA to slowly feed androgen manufacturing

processes. Maybe you'll need to supplement with low dose DDAVP to

correct ADH deficienty. Be cautious with volume depleted patients!!

Don't use corticosteroids unless you have to!! "

He doesn't explain what DDAVP is, or what he means by volume depleted

patients; maybe these things are commonly understood, but I'm not up

on them. If supplementing with low dose DDAVP is such a simple

solution, why don't more people try it?

> > Rich,

>

> > Is there a way to inexpensively measure blood osmolality? This

> would be

> > an easy theory to test.

> >

> > --Kurt

[Guest guest]

Cheney said something to me about diabetes insipidus being something

the body is doing to try to compensate for or control the problems

arising from the heart problem. I just got the video of his talk and

he mentioned it again but I can't remember exactly what he said. It's

a long involved talk.

He told me not to drink just plain water if I could put some salt in

there, that would be better for me. The water just goes right through

me.

I tried to figure out what diabetes insipidus meant and all I could

figure out is that it means you urinate too much. It's not really

related to diabetes mellitus, sugar diabetes.

Helen

> > > Rich,

> >

> > > Is there a way to inexpensively measure blood osmolality? This

> > would be

> > > an easy theory to test.

> > >

> > > --Kurt

[Guest guest]

Hi, shakerz25.

First off, I'm not a licensed physician, as I think you know, and

the following should not be viewed as medical advice.

Central diabetes insipidus is treated with desmopressin (DDAVP),

which is a synthetic form of antidiuretic hormone available by

prescription.

Sugar is not involved in this disorder. Diabetes insipidus is not

the same as diabetes mellitus (Incidentally, the names come from the

fact that both involve high urine production, but in one case the

urine tastes insipid, while in the other it is sweet.)

Arginine doesn't help.

On diagnosis, I'm assuming you don't want to do the " taste test. "

(:-)

Here's what they tell the doctors:

First, you look at symptoms. Does the person produce a large amount

of urine per day, and are they always thirsty?

If so, then you do a 24-hour urine collection and measure the volume

and the osmolality of the urine. If it is more than about 3 liters

per day, and the osmolality is below a certain level, then you run a

fluids deprivation test. In this test, you don't allow any fluids

to be drunk, and each hour you weigh the person and take blood and

urine samples. When the weight has dropped by 5% or the blood

osmolality rises above the normal range, you stop the test. (You

don't want to go too far with this test. If you have a person with

a serious case of diabetes insipidus, they can dehydrate pretty

fast, and that can be hazardous. You just go far enough to get the

information needed to make a diagnsosis, and then let them drink.)

At this point, you check the urine osmolality. If it hasn't risen

above a certain level, the person has diabetes insipidus. To

determine whether the problem is central or nephrogenic diabetes

insipidus, you give them some DDAVP and check the urine osmolality

again. If it goes up by at least a certain amount, the person has

central diabetes insipidus, and DDAVP will help them. If not, it's

nephrogenic. The central type is often found in CFS.

A volume-depleted patient is one who has a lower than normal blood

volume. They are dehydrated. In diabetes mellitus, even though the

person is thirsty and drinks a lot of fluids, they never

really " catch up, " because they urinate so much water out, so they

are always a little dehydrated, i.e. they are volume-depleted.

I don't know why more doctors don't test for and treat diabetes

insipidus in PWCs. DDAVP is available as an injectable, as nose

spray, and as tablets. The PDR says it does have some relatively

rare adverse effects, but most people apparently tolerate it well. I

don't know how expensive it is.

There have been some studies in CFS using DDAVP, but they were

directed toward its effect on the HPA axis, which was beneficial in

some circumstances.

Rich

> > > Rich,

> >

> > > Is there a way to inexpensively measure blood osmolality?

This

> > would be

> > > an easy theory to test.

> > >

> > > --Kurt

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this information, which I have never heard from the

countless doctors I've seen. The fact that you are not licensed

makes your information about 937 times more reliable than if you were

licensed, in my estimation. If one were to successfully drag oneself

to another licensed physician to explore the diagnostic tests you

describe, what type of doctor would it be? An endocrinologist, or

nephrologist, alt. med. type, or what?

> > > > Rich,

> > >

> > > > Is there a way to inexpensively measure blood osmolality?

> This

> > > would be

> > > > an easy theory to test.

> > > >

> > > > --Kurt

[Guest guest]

I have seen Cheney mention the use of (what I assume is natural?)

vasopressin in addition to DDVAP. Has anyone tried this or heard of

anyone using compounded vasopressin? I understand that many PWCs have

subclinical DI, so testing isn't necessarily definitive, though it

could be helpful. I understand that treatment is still helpful in these

cases.

Elise

[Guest guest]

Hi, shakerzs25.

I would think that both the endocrinologists and the nephrologists

would be accustomed to diagnosing diabetes insipidus. Incidentally, I

think I said diabetes mellitus at one point toward the end of my

previous message when I meant to say diabetes insipidus. Sorry about

that.

Rich

>

> Thank you for this information, which I have never heard from the

> countless doctors I've seen. The fact that you are not licensed

> makes your information about 937 times more reliable than if you

were

> licensed, in my estimation. If one were to successfully drag

oneself

> to another licensed physician to explore the diagnostic tests you

> describe, what type of doctor would it be? An endocrinologist, or

> nephrologist, alt. med. type, or what?