Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Great answer - thank you Rich Re: Cysteine Toxicity > > > Hi, . > > That's a very good question. I wish I had a definitive answer, but > I don't. > > The only thing I can suggest is getting the level of cysteine in the > blood measured when taking the undenatured whey protein. > > The mechanisms of cysteine toxicity are not totally agreed upon. > However, the one with the best experimental evidence in the > literature is that cysteine self-oxidizes, i.e. it reacts with > molecular oxygen. In the process of doing this, it produces > oxidizing free radicals. Since glutathione is at the basis of our > antioxidant system, if this occurred, I think it would tend to use > up more glutathione. Since many of the symptoms of CFS, in my > opinion, are due to depleted glutathione, I suspect that elevated > cysteine could exacerbate CFS symptoms. Thus, it might be very > difficult to tell the difference between cysteine toxicity and a > Herxheimer reaction from the symptoms. > > I also suggest getting the mercury level measured, using both a hair > analysis from Doctor's Data labs and a urine test similar to that > offered by the King lab in Ohio, which involves a DMSA > challenge followed by urine collection for several hours. If the > mercury is elevated, then I think it is wise to carefully chelate it > before attempting to build glutathione from whey protein. I think > that it would be O.K. to use methods that put glutathione per se > directly in the blood, though, because that would help to detox the > mercury without raising the cysteine level. I'm talking here about > methods such as I.V., I.M., sublingual troches, suppositories, or > aerosolized glutathione. > > Rich > > >> Hi Rich >> >> What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken > whey in the >> past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, > detox >> feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this feeling > could >> infact be cysteine toxicity? >> >> > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Rich wrote: " Thus, it might be very difficult to tell the difference between cysteine toxicity and a Herxheimer reaction from the symptoms. " Rich and , Perhaps I might suggest a simple way in which you can differentiate between the two when taking whey. Repeat the same dose as soon as the reaction from the first has died down. If there is a toxicity problem, the reaction from the second will be greater. If the reaction is less, it was a therapeutic one. Rob > Hi Rich > > What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken whey in the > past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, detox > feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this feeling could > infact be cysteine toxicity? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 > Repeat the same dose as soon as the reaction from the first has died down. > If there is a toxicity problem, the reaction from the second will be > greater. If the reaction is less, it was a therapeutic one. Thanks Rob When I took the whey before the reaction gradually became less and less so maybe it was not a toxicity reaction > > Rob > > > >> Hi Rich >> >> What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken > whey in the >> past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, > detox >> feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this feeling > could >> infact be cysteine toxicity? >> >> > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each > other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment > discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 hi you are taking too high a dose of the whey suppliments ..i suggest u cut your current dose in half and go up in very small increments every couple days..i used to wait five days till i upped my dose ,,it felt like it took forever but it was easier to see the point where my system had a herx reaction ...good luck.. been at your point a few years ago tealk > [Original Message] > From: pine108kell <Peacefind@...> > < > > Date: 12/8/2004 2:25:45 PM > Subject: Re: Cysteine Toxicity > > > > Hi, I spent (wasted?) a lot of time with all this several years ago. > At the Great Smokies lab I had an elevated rate of glutathione > conjugation (which to me, would suggest I do NOT have a blockage of > glutathione production mechanisms). This is also consistent with > having no metal in my mouth. > > They also gave values for glutathione and mine was lowish (barely > normal range). Rich has not mentioned this, so maybe their values > are not accurate. Anyway, this would be consistent with a good > ability to make glutathione, but a high demand (oxidative stress). > > The confusing thing was that my cysteine was off the chart high, > presumably toxic. This was confusing since there did not appear to > be a blockage in conjugation. I was not taking whey at the time, but > had months earlier. I was experiencing lots of muscle wasting--so > maybe this was the source? Small doses of Immunepro made me herx > and/or toxic. > > Since then, I started whey again, just because I had stalled out on > my antibiotic and other tx. This time with Immunplex. I felt toxic > on it at first but was able to build up the dose considerably with > time, so I felt it was not cysteine toxicity. But I wasn't really > feeling better, so I went back to immunepro recently and am having > the same nasty reactions I had several years ago (though I am > generally somewhat better in most ways, worse in a few) on just 1/4 > tsp. I get this reaction after 3-4 days. > > I don't really know what the moral of this story is, but this > question with cysteine has never been resolved for me, and in my > case, the tests did not really reveal anything understandable to me. > > Kell > > > > > > > Hi Rich > > > > > > What would the symptoms of Cysteine toxicity be. I have taken > > whey in the > > > past and it has given me a herxheimers type reaction (fatigue, > > detox > > > feelings, brain fog) I have amalgams and wondered if this > feeling > > could > > > infact be cysteine toxicity? > > > > > > > > > > > > > This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Hi Kell, I'm interested in what you had to say about your glutathione tests, but have to confess I don't understand your terminology. For example, what is " glutathione conjugation " ? I did a Google search and the articles I found were incomprehensible to me. Can someone explain to me in standard English what it is? = = = Original message = = = Hi, I spent (wasted?) a lot of time with all this several years ago. At the Great Smokies lab I had an elevated rate of glutathione conjugation (which to me, would suggest I do NOT have a blockage of glutathione production mechanisms). This is also consistent with having no metal in my mouth. They also gave values for glutathione and mine was lowish (barely normal range). Rich has not mentioned this, so maybe their values are not accurate. Anyway, this would be consistent with a good ability to make glutathione, but a high demand (oxidative stress). The confusing thing was that my cysteine was off the chart high, presumably toxic. This was confusing since there did not appear to be a blockage in conjugation. I was not taking whey at the time, but had months earlier. I was experiencing lots of muscle wasting--so maybe this was the source? Small doses of Immunepro made me herx and/or toxic. ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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