Re: Hi Rich, Teenage makes scientific breakthough

[Guest guest]

One member said he had his venous blood gases tested.

It showed he had enough oxygen in the blood but not enough was getting into

the cells.

I had my tested and it showed I have 1/2 the normal oxygen going into the

brain and cells.

(I don't think they did the test right but the out come is close.)

Its a rare test and could not say why its happening.

(I told them it happens when I run into a chemical, and some foods that

don't agree with me.

and a diluted form of the same chemical or food takes it away.)

You maybe interested in a product called Friction its distributed by global

nutraceuticals,

it adds 2,3-DPG to your system. Its about $19.

I am trying it. It seems to give me heart burn but helps the body 4X.

I am only doing a little once in a while. I hope that it might help

un-derail my system.

Ron

Re: Teenage makes scientific breakthough

Hi, sunnyslumber and the group.

I've been away for a while, but am now back, and I've been thinking

about this 2,3 BPG issue some more. As I understand it, in a

normal, healthy person, the 2,3 BPG level is adjusted in response to

the amount of oxygen in the blood, averaged over some time. If a

person goes to a higher altitude and stays for a few days, the

oxygen partial pressure in the air she or he breathes goes down, so

the amount of oxygen in the blood also goes down, and the red blood

cells then raise their level of 2,3 BPG to compensate and help to

release the oxygen from the hemoglobin for greater transport into

the cells.

In CFS, I think that the level of 2,3 BPG in the red blood cells in

a particular PWC would tell us whether there is a partial blockade

in the oxidative metabolism of the skeletal muscle cells or whether

the lungs are not supplying sufficient oxygen to the blood. In the

first case, I think the 2,3 BPG would be below normal, because the

muscle cells would not be using as much oxygen as they normally do,

and this would raise the amount of oxygen in the blood, leading to a

corresponding decrease in 2,3 BPG (I suspect that most PWCs would

fall into this camp). On the other hand, if the lungs are not

putting enough oxygen into the blood and the muscle cells are

demanding more than they are getting, the oxygen level in the blood

will go down, and the level of 2,3 BPG will rise to compensate (I

have studied a couple of cases in which there was prior serious lung

disease, and I suspect that they might fall into this camp). I

think that there are probably subsets with both these situations in

the total PWC population, and this may account for the conflicting

results that have been reported.

Rich

> > Hi, Ron.

> >

> > I believe that Dilnaz Pashwani later corrected this story and

said

> > that PWCs are low in 2,3BPG rather than high in it. Researchers

at

> > the U. of Newcastle in Australia confirmed this latter result.

> >

>

> > > In 1999 an Etobicoke teenager named Dilnaz Panjwani performed

> > double

> > > blind studies that revealed and confirmed a biomarker for MCS,

> > > sufficient enough to serve as a diagnostic test for MCS, FM,

and

> > > CFS. The double blind studies showed that MCS sufferers have

an

> > > excess of a metabolite (2, 3-diphosphoglycerate) that prevents

> the

> > > bloodstream from delivering oxygen to cells, tissues, and

organs.

>

> > > Ron

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Ron.

> One member said he had his venous blood gases tested.

> It showed he had enough oxygen in the blood but not enough was

getting into

> the cells.

O.K. I think this is the most commonly observed situation in CFS.

I think this means that his lungs, heart, and red blood cells are

handling oxygen as they should, but his skeletal muscle cells are

not accepting as much oxygen as they should, probably because their

oxidative metabolism has partial blockades in it.

> I had my tested and it showed I have 1/2 the normal oxygen going

into the

> brain and cells.

> (I don't think they did the test right but the out come is close.)

I'm not sure what this test involved. Was it a venous blood gases

test? Do you have the actual numerical test results?

>

> Its a rare test and could not say why its happening.

>

> (I told them it happens when I run into a chemical, and some foods

that

> don't agree with me.

> and a diluted form of the same chemical or food takes it away.)

This sounds like desensitizing an allergy.

>

> You maybe interested in a product called Friction its distributed

by global

> nutraceuticals,

> it adds 2,3-DPG to your system. Its about $19.

I'll check the website. I hadn't heard of it until now.

>

> I am trying it. It seems to give me heart burn but helps the body

4X.

How are you able to evaluate the improvement as 4X? Do you have

test results, or are you basing this on how you feel after you take

it?

> I am only doing a little once in a while. I hope that it might help

> un-derail my system.

> Ron

O.K., Ron.

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi, Ron.

I'm a little confused about your blood gases test. As I understand

you, you are saying that such tests are usually run on arterial

blood, and this is correct. As I understand you further, you are

saying that you had this test run on your venous blood. O.K., so

far, so good. That is also fairly commonly done. However, then you

say that the normal range for PO2 is 80 to 100, and that yours came

out to be 40. I assume you mean 80 to 100 mmHg. The problem I

have with this is that 80 to 100 mmHg is the normal range of the

partial pressure of oxygen in ARTERIAL blood (which I think you

actually say later on in your message). The normal range for VENOUS

blood is about 25 to 40 mmHg, or in the webpage you cited, 35 to 40

mmHg. Therefore, it seems to me that the partial pressure of oxygen

in your venous blood is in the normal range, though admittedly at

the high end of the normal range. So your doctor's interpretation

of how much is getting into your brain and cells is a little

puzzling to me. I can't make sense of it.

Rich

> Hi Rich,

>

> Yes I do have the test results of the venous blood gases test.

> PO2 normal is, (80-100) mine is 40. The doctor said this means

only halve of

> normal oxygen is getting into the brain and cells. But there is

plenty in

> the blood.

>

> http://www.mtsinai.org/pulmonary/noninvasive/venousgases.htm

[Guest guest]

I almost forgot to mention the reason they do the test under the skin is

because, that way you get a reaction right a way. They use a timer and if

there is a reaction, it will happen with in 10 minutes.

They told me most of the people with chemical sensitive have many many

things that get them.

But while I was there 2 people where being tested for many things, one

person, only peanuts and one only molds.

(The peanut guy has worked all his life never been ill, then one day he ate

a jar of peanuts. Now when he has some it almost kills him.) His doctors

told him it couldn't be the peanuts but when he asked if he should try them

again they said defiantly not.

Re: Hi Rich, Teenage makes scientific

breakthough

Hi, Ron.

> One member said he had his venous blood gases tested.

> It showed he had enough oxygen in the blood but not enough was

getting into

> the cells.

O.K. I think this is the most commonly observed situation in CFS.

I think this means that his lungs, heart, and red blood cells are

handling oxygen as they should, but his skeletal muscle cells are

not accepting as much oxygen as they should, probably because their

oxidative metabolism has partial blockades in it.

> I had my tested and it showed I have 1/2 the normal oxygen going

into the

> brain and cells.

> (I don't think they did the test right but the out come is close.)

I'm not sure what this test involved. Was it a venous blood gases

test? Do you have the actual numerical test results?

>

> Its a rare test and could not say why its happening.

>

> (I told them it happens when I run into a chemical, and some foods

that

> don't agree with me.

> and a diluted form of the same chemical or food takes it away.)

This sounds like desensitizing an allergy.

>

> You maybe interested in a product called Friction its distributed

by global

> nutraceuticals,

> it adds 2,3-DPG to your system. Its about $19.

I'll check the website. I hadn't heard of it until now.

>

> I am trying it. It seems to give me heart burn but helps the body

4X.

How are you able to evaluate the improvement as 4X? Do you have

test results, or are you basing this on how you feel after you take

it?

> I am only doing a little once in a while. I hope that it might help

> un-derail my system.

> Ron

O.K., Ron.

Rich

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.