Re: Why not just drink milk instead of whey / Probiotics for Asian people?!

[Guest guest]

Many Asian foods are fermented, and as such are a source of probiotics. And

most Asians are not allergic to milk. Most Asians are lactose intolerant.

There is a distinct difference. Lactose intolerance can be overcome by

consuming sufficient acidophilus and/or taking lactase, which is a digestive

enzyme that digests the lactose in milk. A milk allergy cannot be overcome

with supplements.

As far as consuming milk as a source of whey, it might work, as long as it

was raw milk, and as long as the person was deficient in digestive enzymes

and stomach acids. However, pasteurized milk has had it's proteins

denatured, so it isn't a good source of whey. And because there is casein in

milk, it requires digestive enzymes and hydrochloric acid that denature the

whey proteins. And a person who is deficient in digestive enzymes that

consumes raw milk is risking getting milk-borne infections, because normally

the stomach acid and digestive enzymes help to kill harmful pathogens in raw

milk. And being deficient in digestive enzymes and consuming raw milk means

that a lot of it passes through the intestinal tract, undigested, feeding

pathogens in the intestinal tract, rather than being absorbed. Not a good

combination.

lindaj@...

Why not just drink milk instead of whey /

Probiotics for Asian people?!

> Hello!

>

> What would be wrong with just drinking milk (maybe fat-free)to get

> our daily share of whey protein??

>

>

> And: If probiotics are supposedly so healthy, how do Asian people get

> theirs? (Most of Asians are allergic to milk product!!)

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure what raw milk Jill is talking about here, but you likely won't

be able to get it in most states. I'm a big fan of raw milk though I haven't

been able to get it for a long time. www.realmilk.com has sources of raw milk

in different states.

Peggy

<<The raw milk from Organic Pastures, and especially the raw colostrum,

is very closely monitored by the state and by the farm itself. It is

deemed safe. In fact, harmful bacteria don't seem to grow in the

colostrum anyway. Also,you could take supplemental enzymes, >>

[Guest guest]

The raw milk from Organic Pastures, and especially the raw colostrum,

is very closely monitored by the state and by the farm itself. It is

deemed safe. In fact, harmful bacteria don't seem to grow in the

colostrum anyway. Also,you could take supplemental enzymes,

hydrochloric acid if you were worried. I found myself having a

reaction to the colostrum even though it helped me a lot too. There

was too much natural milk sugar in it which made my candida worse

(and it tasted so good I drank way too much);and also it irritated my

gallbladder. I did not have that reaction to raw goat colostrum

(well, I did to the sugar) so I guess I don't tolerate cow's milkvery

well. And neither do I tolerate whey products (the powdered kind,

whether just plain whey or immunepro).

[Guest guest]

And neither do I tolerate whey products (the powdered kind,

> whether just plain whey or immunepro).

Garden of Life do a goat whey product.

Pam

[Guest guest]

hi fox -

> What would be wrong with just drinking milk (maybe fat-free)to get

> our daily share of whey protein??

>

>

> And: If probiotics are supposedly so healthy, how do Asian people get

> theirs? (Most of Asians are allergic to milk product!!)

I'm not asian but have had a very good experience growing my own kefir, which is

loaded with probiotics, easy to make, and the grains eat up the lactose which is

what causes most allergies. See

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir-faq.html. for a ton of info on this.

Many traditional Asian foods are fermented (as is kefir) which supply

probiotics. A great resource is " Nourishing Traditions " by Sally Fallon which I

highly recommend to anyone with gut problems.

Judith G

[Guest guest]

Jill, which is me, is talking about organic pastures and they ship to

all states, they shipped twice to me. I bought their colostrum. I

tried the milk but I didn't really like it though it tasted good.

There are also Amish farmers with goats and cows that will ship raw

milk. Google " vinny pinto " and find his raw foods list.

I tend to think foods in their natural state, as whole as possible,

organic, untampered with, except for fermenting, is the healthiest.

I take far less supplements than I used to. Nature didn't make

supplements. Exceptions: I take eclectic institute echincaea,

goldenseal, i drink green tea and peppermint tea, and I get a

vitamin/mineral drip mainly for the magnesium, once every two weeks.

[Guest guest]

,

I am being able to find raw milk but I have to boil it. Could boiled milk be a

whey source or at least better than pasteur'zed form? Is there any difference

between boiled milk and pasteurized milk?

Thanks very much.

Nil

Re: Why not just drink milk instead of whey /

Probiotics for Asian people?!

Many Asian foods are fermented, and as such are a source of probiotics. And

most Asians are not allergic to milk. Most Asians are lactose intolerant.

There is a distinct difference. Lactose intolerance can be overcome by

consuming sufficient acidophilus and/or taking lactase, which is a digestive

enzyme that digests the lactose in milk. A milk allergy cannot be overcome

with supplements.

As far as consuming milk as a source of whey, it might work, as long as it

[Guest guest]

Boiled milk is even more denatured than pasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk

is brought up to 162 degrees F. (72 degrees C) But in order to boil milk,

the temperature has to be brought up to 212 degrees, (100 degrees

C)depending on the altitude. So boiled milk is raised to a higher

temperature than pasteurized milk. And the higher the temperature, the more

it is denatured. Since pasteurized milk is not a very good source for

cysteine, boiled milk would have even less.

It is far easier to just buy an undenatured whey, and in the long run

probably cheaper, as well, because when it comes to the actual amount of

whey in whole milk, you're talking of only a fraction of the milk content.

Not to mention all the work involved. With CFS, I would think that having to

go to extra work for something that is available without all the work

doesn't make sense.

I remember some years ago when I checked into making my own cheese from milk

bought straight from a local dairy that I personally knew the owner, which

was a little cheaper than milk from the store, and found that to make my own

cheese would cost about four times as much as just buying it from the store.

Now, cheese uses the casein, and you press out the whey, but still the total

volume of whey would be decreased when filtering it out of whole milk. So

unless you own your own cow, it probably isn't very cost effective. And it's

a whole lot more work than just buying it.

But the additional problem is that undenatured whey's from manufacturers who

specialize in that type of product are carefully monitored for pathogens.

Buying milk directly from a dairy doesn't allow as careful control over

pathogens. That's probably one of the reasons why you are required to boil

the milk. Milk-borne pathogens in an immune compromised individual like

someone with CFS could be devastating.

linda@...

Re: Why not just drink milk instead of whey /

Probiotics for Asian people?!

> ,

>

> I am being able to find raw milk but I have to boil it. Could boiled milk

be a whey source or at least better than pasteur'zed form? Is there any

difference between boiled milk and pasteurized milk?

> Thanks very much.

> Nil

[Guest guest]

Hi

I have bought some undenatured whey powder from a local health shop

here in the UK. I have been taken 1 1/2 tablespoons with about 3 oz

of water. Is that about the right amount and how often should I

take it, just once or twice a day? I don't get any side effects

from it at all.

Many thanks

Pam

[Guest guest]

You can do a search through the archives, and I think that others have

posted suggested dosages.

On my ImmunePro RX jar, it says to take 5 to 30 grams in divided or single

servings. 5 grams is a little more than a teaspoon, so 30 grams would be

about two tablespoons. People who have side effects usually have to go at

much lower doses.

The instructions say to mix it with 6 to 8 oz. of water or milk or dairy

substitute and use on an empty stomach, and wait 20 minutes before eating.

And to sip it slowly, letting it sit in the mouth for 15 seconds before

swallowing. I think the idea is that it gets absorbed sublingually that way.

I know that there are some people who just use the powder sublingually,

rather than mixing it with water. But I can't stand the taste straight. So I

mix it in water with sweet dairy whey and milk flavoring mix. (non-acidic)

The brand of Sweet Dairy Whey that I use is instantized, which makes mixing

it very easy. I mix the ImmunePro into the sweet dairy whey in the powdered

form, and then pour it into the water together, and it will stir in

instantly that way. Otherwise, the ImmunePro just kind of sits on the

surface in clumps, and it takes forever to get it stirred in.

When I first started it, I could only tolerate about 1/8 teaspoon a day. At

a higher dose, over time I would begin to feel very wired, and nervous, and

more panic attack prone, and it would interfere with my sleep. It would

usually take about a week for me to get to that point. Then I'd have to stop

for a while, and start over again. When I finally adjusted the dose to 1/8

teaspoon per day, I avoided the side effects, and could maintain that dose

daily.

But when I began using Samento, for some reason that side effect

disappeared, and I've been able to use the ImmunePro at the 5 grams per day

dose. I haven't increased it higher than that, because I don't want to push

my luck.

Recently, though, I began having that wired/nervous problem again. But I

don't think it's related to the ImmunePro. When I reacted to phosphatidyl

choline with the same wired/nervous reaction, I dropped the ImmunePro,

thinking that it might be the cause, since in the past it was over time that

the side effects subtly accumulated, and since I've been taking it at the 5

gram dose for a couple months, I thought maybe it's taken that long for the

effects to accumulate. But the wired/nervous reaction didn't stop,(it

usually subsides within a day, but this time it didn't), and so after a week

I had to drop the phosphatidyl choline. It's been 4 days since I dropped the

phosphatidyl choline, and I'm beginning to feel a little less wired, but I'm

not going to start back on the ImmunePro till I'm back to where I was at

before.

The wired/nervous affect that I get is subtle, and I'm not aware of it until

it gets pretty bad. The interesting thing is that it doesn't show up on the

EEG that my bioneurofeedback therapist does on me. But we only have

electrodes on my forehead and upper part of my head and temporal area above

the ears. So apparently the effects are deeper in my brain. I should

probably clarify that the wired/nervous feeling is not energy wise. I am

still just as fatigued, if not more so. But I seem to have even less stress

tolerance, and more autonomic system dysfunction, and difficulty relaxing

and sleeping. I sometimes feel like I've taken tranquilizers and caffeine.

And I suspect that the wired/nervous reaction is from a build-up of

cysteine. Why the Samento seems to prevent it in me is a mystery. I know

some others who have tried Samento have reported that it made them feel

wired/nervous. But for me it seems to make me much more calm and stress

tolerant, and less autonomic system dysfunction. So for some reason I'm not

getting the build-up of cysteine at all, or perhaps as quickly.

lindaj@...

Re: Why not just drink milk instead of whey /

Probiotics for Asian people?!

>

>

> Hi

>

> I have bought some undenatured whey powder from a local health shop

> here in the UK. I have been taken 1 1/2 tablespoons with about 3 oz

> of water. Is that about the right amount and how often should I

> take it, just once or twice a day? I don't get any side effects

> from it at all.

>

> Many thanks

>

> Pam