Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

[Guest guest]

You want more info on what the diseases are? Cancel/postpone the appt

and get your hands on a book called " How to Raise a Healthy Child In Spite

Of Your Doctor by Mendelsohn. A wonderful book. You can get it

from almost any book store. If they don't have it in, they can order it.

The price is about 5-7 dollars.

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

No, I don't! And I just read your story to Dh and now he says " I just don't

know if we should or not now " getting him to read stuff online is like

pulling teeth and I've been reading it to him this morning and have talked

to him about it several times. I'm sorry what happened to your family and

your son.

Shelby

Still wanna vax????????????????

[Guest guest]

I've already vax'd my older ones. I never even thought there was anything wrong

with it. Not everyone is like you and feels they have to research before they

vax, unfortunately. I'm just now learning that vax is bad. I didn't realize

there were perfect people in the world that always research before they do. You

all are making me feel like a complete idiot because I didn't research before

and have vax'd before. Some people just trust their doctors. I'm changing the

way I see things and trying to get help and I appreciate the nice help I've

recieved but this negativity really stinks! Thanks for YOUR help! I'm unsubbing.

Shelby

Having a baby is no excuse for not doing research BEFORE vaxxing. Sorry for

the bluntness, but it is the truth.

It is your responsibility to learn how to treat your child should your child

come down with an infectious disease. We can help but you must be willing to

take the time to read and follow through.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

<<You all are making me feel like a complete idiot because I didn't research

before and have vax'd before. Some people just trust their doctors. I'm

changing the way I see things and trying to get help and I appreciate the

nice help I've recieved but this negativity really stinks! Thanks for YOUR

help! I'm unsubbing.>>

What's done is done with the older kids. What everyone is trying to point

out is that you can't say " I can't do this because I have a baby. " Instead,

it is that you HAVE to do this because you have a baby.

I vaxxed my oldest. It wasn't until my son had problems that I realized I

had fallen for a crock of crap. We have it drummed into us from birth in

this country (unless your parents were ahead of their time!) that you HAVE

to get your shots. The fear tactics and brainwashing that go on are

tremendous.

But now you know. Or at least you know enough to know that you don't know.

Believe me, that is most of the battle.

So now, don't put ANYTHING into your baby until you know the complete

benefits, not only of doing it, but of not doing it.

I'm sure your hypersensitive right now, because you just realized that you

have possibly escaped with two " bullet empty " chambers of the vaccination

Russian roulette. And you didn't even know you were playing.

But don't unsub over a few hurt feelings. You can learn here, but people

are very blunt. Look at it this way, if you truly do decide not to vax, you

are going to need a very thick skin.

Goldmeer

[Guest guest]

Shelby,

first, relax .... I really think you can either cancel or go to the appointment,

but tell the doc that your child hasn't been well and you want to postpone the

vax until ???? just to appease them. There's no rule that says you HAVE to get

the shots at X time. You have all the time in the world to make the decisions

that could effect you and your family for a long time to come.

Best wishes

tracy

happy to be at home with and Chase

[Guest guest]

<<Oooh, I am so proud to report that my beautiful healthy unvaxxed 14-month

old

daughter never got sick even though both hubby and me have recently

recovered

from one hec of a cold. Bless her healthy immune system. The only signs

she

displayed was a runny nose for about 10 minutes for two consecutive days and

by golly that was it for her. Now, if only hubby and me were so healthy.

We

make sure the baby eats whole unprocessed foods while we are munching on

nasty things like Hamburger Helper.>>

ROFLOL, you sound like us!

We had that cold too! Oldest, almost 9, fully vaxxed, one heck of a healthy

eater, complained of headache and cough for one day. Next oldest, 5,

partially vaxxed, vax injured, also a healthy eater, had runny nose,

headache, cough for about 3 days. Next oldest, 3, not vaxxed, healthy eater

(but with a penchant for sweets if I let him) had very runny nose (and

eyes)... whatever it was just poured out of his sinuses for about a day and

a half... but NO cough, NO fever, NO headache, no complaints at ALL! It was

like his body just flushed itself out. And baby, 4 months, never vaxxed,

totally breastfed, had the slightest of runny noses for a day. That was it.

Multiple-vaxxed me (as a teenager had four rounds of MMRs one summer because

they never showed up in my titers and I was working at a hospital and had to

" prove immunity " ) has had one HECK of a time with it. I'm over everything

but the cough. I cough at night so badly I feel like I'm dying! And I can

taste copper at the back of my throat, so I'm sure I've scraped up the

inside of my throat very badly.

Goldmeer

[Guest guest]

Shelby....

This group of amazing people will, in time, become such a source of

knowledge, information, comfort, support and great fun to you if you stay.

And if you have decided not to vax or to delay vaxxing, you need some of the

people here, as I did and do. Not vaxxing is only the beginning really....I

am now just starting to learn about homeopathy, alternative remedies etc.

And for all of those confusing times ahead, when your decisions are tested

and you feel unsure again (and you will, trust me!), this collection of

people from all walks of life are here....always. Quick to respond to any

request. Giving support and , yes!, sometimes a reality check!! LOL

Think of us all like the " good cop, bad cop " scenario! ;-)

Good luck whatever you do. I hope you stay though. If you gain as much in

knowledge, laughter and friendship as I have here then you might be doing

this , like me, writing something similar to a new person, hoping they stick

around to become informed and empowered....

Oh...and some of us can talk, and talk, and talk.....LOL

SUE

Ruby-2.4yrs

Wales,UK

[Guest guest]

That's exactly when it hits me. I'm pushing the vitamin C, but I've always

had a rather compromised immune system. I do what I can to build it up.

No complaints, though... other than the cough I feel top notch!

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

I'm sorry to hear you've had it so bad. At least the kiddos had it easy.

My

coughing seemed to be worse when I would lay down at night. I'd always have

to get up and leave the room to go clear my airway cuz I didn't wanna wake

the baby. I took large amounts of Vitamin C which I believe was beneficial

because I got a less severe case than hubby did.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Shelby, Nobody meant any harm - please stay. It's just that we've learned

we must take responsibility for our children's health, that believing anyone

else (even us, without doing your own research), makes you vulnerable to

making decisions you might later regret. If you have done everything YOU

can prior to making your decisions, that is all you can do. Then you can

rest assured that you have done your best.

Sandy from Alaska

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED HERE

IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS

REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO BE

CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE AND SHOULD BE

MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

[Guest guest]

" Shelby, I think that is for the best. Some people just don't have the

constitution for not vaxxing. If they don't vax, they are always living in

fear which is no good for them or their family. You think this is

negativity? Just wait, you ain't seen nothing yet! Wait until you tell

your

doc that you are postponing vaxes until you complete some research.

Heeheehee You gonna see NEGATIVITY then! Some docs have even thrown their

customers out of their offices right then and there. Kathleen "

Kathleen,

What exactly is the " constitution for not vaxing " ? I know that we

are considered the " old timers " on this and that we already have been in

this for a while, but please correct me if I am mistaken here, but I thought

we were here for support and information. Not just to each other, but to

the " newbies " who come in looking for answers. This was at one time all

new and scary to me, as well as to most of us. It took a while to do the

research and realize that I had the " right " to refuse vaxes. It is also

scary when what you have " believed " most of your life is now presented in a

new light and makes you doubt all that you once believed.

If someone would have told me that " I " would be accused of harming my

child instead of the medical community and the vaccine industry stepping up

to the plate, I would have NEVER believed it.

I considered myself a fairly educated person when I had my first child.

Not vaxing never entered my mind. But we learn new things every day, we

learn from mistakes, and we learn from people in our lives.

We, in this group, have the opportunity to help people be confident in

being a parent and making and EDUCATED decision. Yes, most will see

negativity after they decide to no longer vax. But I do not agree with the

idea of " let's show them the negativity here to get em used to it. "

Please folks, we are people who KNOW the truth of the propaganda

that we are fighting against. How are people that have questions going

to know unless we tell them?

Just my VERY humble opinion,

Dina

Woodbridge, VA

[Guest guest]

Yes, you may forward it.

I have no problem with that at all.

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

In a message dated 10/11/2001 11:10:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

dina.mason@... writes:

> O.k. Shelby, sounds like what you need to hear is someone who has gone

thru

> the vax injury experience. So here goes.

> I am Dina. I am mom of two kids. Dathon, who is almost 9 and Aubrey,

who

> is almost 5. Dathon was vaxed up to about 18 months. Aubrey has never

> been vaxed.

>

Dina,

Do you mind if I share that with another list that I am on? It is an AP

list

and we discuss vaccines alot, some of the members are still on the fence and

I think that hearing your story could help. We used to have a member in our

group who's daughter died the morning after receiving her MMR years ago,

unfortunately she left our group, due to high mail volume, the group meets

in

real life and is a great group of women. If it bothers you then I won't

share it.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Shelby,

I am new to this list but I feel like I should address this issue because I

was in the " same boat " not long ago. I, too, was quite confused when I

began this journey into " vacc knowledge " . Like you, I had 3 of my 4 kids

vacc'd, routinely. I thought my kids were very healthy and

" normal " ...occasional colds, ear infections, etc. After all, aren't all

kids sick some of the time...the answer here is NO, but I will address that

later.... Finally, learning the truth after 4 children, we decided NO MORE

VACC'S! It was not until then, that I realized how UNHEALTHY my kids had

actually been.

You questioned the validity of vacc problems...to answer bluntly, no,

FORTUNATELY we've not experienced horrible things like autism, retardation

and even death....but let me share a little of what we have dealt

with.....(all under the guise of " healthy kids " illnesses, mind you)........

My oldest has asthma--something we have dealt with for over 7 years (he is

11)--many, many trips to the e.r. for nebulizer treatmnts, inhalers, allergy

testing, reduced activities, etc.

My second child has chronic gastro-problems...acid reflux for a 5 yr old (at

least that is what the dr.'s call it...) he had to have ph probe done to

check the acid in his gut at age 3! He was even put on Propulsid, which has

since been found to cause death....

My third had to have major EMERGENCY surgery last year for a *suprise*

diagnosis of septic arthritis in his right hip...at the age of 3.

Now, for better news.....

my totally clean, un-vacc'd daughter, now 2, is as healthy as an ox (I guess

oxen are healthy...isn't that the saying? ha) Anyway, she has had one (so

called) ear infection---although I am still not convinced that it was...and

other than a thrush infection while I was nursing her, she hasn't been to

the dr.!

I don't do well-baby visits....that is my personal choice, but my opinion is

they are a useless tool to get more money out of me and tell me things I

already know, like my child is healthy---okay, okay I'll get off the soap

box now.

Shelby, I am in NO way telling you that you are a bad mother. What I am

saying is NO ONE can make the decision not to vacc't your kids....but you.

Like you, I knew ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I didn't even know what a " package

insert " was, didn't know that I could even say " no " to vacc's, and didn't

know what vacc's my kids had and what they didn't....talk about dumb! I was

terrified not to vacc't because I didn't want to endanger my children. What

I didn't understand---until I did LOTS AND LOTS of study---is I was doing

the very thing I was trying to avoid...harming my kids.

We, as a group (and I'm certain I can speak for most) can help you with

information...but the decision is yours and yours alone. I know it's

tough...you feel if you make the wrong decision then you could be putting

your kids in harms way. God gave you a mother's intuition, Shelby. Use it.

Investigate. Study. You'll find the truth. It can't be missed! I wish

you lots of luck!

from NC

[Guest guest]

Hi, Dina!

Have you ever had Dathon tested for Mercury toxicity (poisoning)? I finally had

my daughter tested (6-hour urine collection after taking Captomer) about a month

ago, and voila! There it was in black and white. My daughter is Autistic with

Mental Retardation (you can be Autistic and not retarded) and Epilepsy. Now I

know why. I was right, the doctors were wrong!

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

I've read lots links. I guess I'm just not convinced yet! I guess because

I've had two healthy boys fully vax'd with no problems. I can read it but it

all seems so surreal to me, all the complications and problems. I've never

" seen " proof. I've read a lot. Maybe I need someone to mallet it into my

head! I just don't know where to stand. I see both sides of it. I don't know

what I'm looking for or expecting from this list.

<<Shelby - I 'm going to sound firm here but YOU HAVE TO TAKE AND FIND THE

TIME!

We cannot tell you what to think and take time to explain each and

everyone. You have to read the links.

If you can read what someone posts, you can read the links.

I'm sorry, but you are asking a lot of people on this list and not taking

much responsibility yourself.

[Guest guest]

No, we have not had him tested yet for Mercury. We are still in the process

of having Autism " officially " added to his diagnosis. I am looking into

having testing run for mercury and lead sometime in the future. I have

already cut tuna out of his diet in the hopes of not doing further damage.

We are also in the process of " open enrollment " for insurance thru my

husbands work, so I am looking at about 4 or 5 of them to see who is going

to cover what. We have run into some things that they refuse to cover

because they feel the school should do it.

Right now Dathon is labeled MR. He is in 3rd grade Special Ed (TMR

class). We are hoping to get him at least a few autism based classes.

How old is your daughter? Have you had to deal with IEP's yet?

Have you found an Autism Support Group? I would love to talk to you more

about all this. I am new to the autism part, but we have been in Special

Ed, ECI, PIE since Dathon was 5 mos old.

Dina Mason, Virginians for IDEA Compliance

Mom to Dathon, 8, Autism/MR/CP/Epilepsy

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

Hi, Dina!

Have you ever had Dathon tested for Mercury toxicity (poisoning)? I finally

had my daughter tested (6-hour urine collection after taking Captomer) about

a month ago, and voila! There it was in black and white. My daughter is

Autistic with Mental Retardation (you can be Autistic and not retarded) and

Epilepsy. Now I know why. I was right, the doctors were wrong!

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

I've read lots links. I guess I'm just not convinced yet! I guess because

I've had two healthy boys fully vax'd with no problems. I can read it but

it

all seems so surreal to me, all the complications and problems. I've never

" seen " proof. I've read a lot. Maybe I need someone to mallet it into my

head! I just don't know where to stand. I see both sides of it. I don't

know

what I'm looking for or expecting from this list.

<<Shelby - I 'm going to sound firm here but YOU HAVE TO TAKE AND FIND THE

TIME!

We cannot tell you what to think and take time to explain each and

everyone. You have to read the links.

If you can read what someone posts, you can read the links.

I'm sorry, but you are asking a lot of people on this list and not taking

much responsibility yourself.

[Guest guest]

Kathleen, do you really think you are going to convince her this way?

we are here to help people, to educate them. and if we have to hold

their hands for a little while, then that is what we should do. I know

you feel strongly about this, and you have every right to. But lets be

a little nicer about it. Kathy

> Shelby, I think that is for the best. Some people just don't have the

> constitution for not vaxxing. If they don't vax, they are always

living in

> fear which is no good for them or their family. You think this is

> negativity? Just wait, you ain't seen nothing yet! Wait until you

tell your

> doc that you are postponing vaxes until you complete some research.

> Heeheehee You gonna see NEGATIVITY then! Some docs have even thrown

their

> customers out of their offices right then and there.

>

> Kathleen

>

> In a message dated 10/11/2001 2:52:30 AM Central Daylight Time,

> discombobulated@... writes:

>

>

> > I've already vax'd my older ones. I never even thought there was

anything

> > wrong with it. Not everyone is like you and feels they have to

research

> > before they vax, unfortunately. I'm just now learning that vax is

bad. I

> > didn't realize there were perfect people in the world that always

research

> > before they do. You all are making me feel like a complete idiot

because I

> > didn't research before and have vax'd before. Some people just trust

their

> > doctors. I'm changing the way I see things and trying to get help

and I

> > appreciate the nice help I've recieved but this negativity really

stinks!

> > Thanks for YOUR help! I'm unsubbing.

> > Shelby

> >

> > Having a baby is no excuse for not doing research BEFORE vaxxing.

Sorry

> > for

> > the bluntness, but it is the truth.

> >

> > It is your responsibility to learn how to treat your child should

your

> > child

> > come down with an infectious disease. We can help but you must be

> > willing to

> > take the time to read and follow through.

> >

> > Kathleen

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Dina!

You can e-mail me privately at tsteinbach4@....

My daughter is 9, about to turn 10. I have done IFP's (Birth to Three Program),

IEP's, etc. out the wazoo! I only wish my daughter had been receiving services

as early as your son. When I started, there were NO services for young

children, especially children with Autism. However, I must say, I had no clue

what was going on with her except that she began having grand mal seizures when

she was seven months old. Certainly that was an indication that something was

seriously wrong. The doctors were all idiots. Fortunately for me I had a good

daycare provider who hooked me up with Birth to Three before it even had

started, so I had to wait a few months while they got themselves together. Very

frustrating. Anyway, now I know more than the doctors, and I am teaching them

(Yale Child Study Center, who think they are the Gods of diagnosis, etc.).

I can't write much more tonight as I have to review three proposals for

children's mental health services for the Department of Children and Families

and the work session is tomorrow morning at 9 am. until 5 p.m. Ugh! I think

I'm not getting much sleep tonight, but it's for the best reason I can think of,

our kids!

Write back!

Re: Shots and what they do/don't do

I've read lots links. I guess I'm just not convinced yet! I guess because

I've had two healthy boys fully vax'd with no problems. I can read it but

it

all seems so surreal to me, all the complications and problems. I've never

" seen " proof. I've read a lot. Maybe I need someone to mallet it into my

head! I just don't know where to stand. I see both sides of it. I don't

know

what I'm looking for or expecting from this list.

<<Shelby - I 'm going to sound firm here but YOU HAVE TO TAKE AND FIND THE

TIME!

We cannot tell you what to think and take time to explain each and

everyone. You have to read the links.

If you can read what someone posts, you can read the links.

I'm sorry, but you are asking a lot of people on this list and not taking

much responsibility yourself.

[Guest guest]

I just had to comment that for myself, yes at times I am frightened of the idea

that I may be at risk of loosing my son because of not giving vaccines. I am

human, but I do not think that saying that is a fault and wrong is fair. Yes, I

have decided not to vaxx, and I will stand my ground. at first I didn't know

what to do, but after months of reading, asking and thinking, my husband and I

came to our decision. And I will not badger someone for second guessing new

ideas, because once I was there. I have friends that decided to vax, and that is

their choice, I am only here to give information, advice, and support. I believe

that everyone should feel free to feel free. I feel that I have the

constitution, and I get enough negativity from doctors calling me stupid, that I

would rather not get it from a group I joined for support. Shouldn't we stand

together?!?

> Shelby, I think that is for the best. Some people just don't have the

> constitution for not vaxxing. If they don't vax, they are always

living in

> fear which is no good for them or their family. You think this is

> negativity? Just wait, you ain't seen nothing yet! Wait until you

tell your

> doc that you are postponing vaxes until you complete some research.

> Heeheehee You gonna see NEGATIVITY then! Some docs have even thrown

their

> customers out of their offices right then and there.

>

> Kathleen

>

> In a message dated 10/11/2001 2:52:30 AM Central Daylight Time,

> discombobulated@... writes:

>

>

> > I've already vax'd my older ones. I never even thought there was

anything

> > wrong with it. Not everyone is like you and feels they have to

research

> > before they vax, unfortunately. I'm just now learning that vax is

bad. I

> > didn't realize there were perfect people in the world that always

research

> > before they do. You all are making me feel like a complete idiot

because I

> > didn't research before and have vax'd before. Some people just trust

their

> > doctors. I'm changing the way I see things and trying to get help

and I

> > appreciate the nice help I've recieved but this negativity really

stinks!

> > Thanks for YOUR help! I'm unsubbing.

> > Shelby

> >

> > Having a baby is no excuse for not doing research BEFORE vaxxing.

Sorry

> > for

> > the bluntness, but it is the truth.

> >

> > It is your responsibility to learn how to treat your child should

your

> > child

> > come down with an infectious disease. We can help but you must be

> > willing to

> > take the time to read and follow through.

> >

> > Kathleen

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10-11-01 2:26:34 PM Central Daylight Time,

discombobulated@... writes:

<< I've already vax'd my older ones. I never even thought there was anything

wrong with it. Not everyone is like you and feels they have to research

before they vax, unfortunately. I'm just now learning that vax is bad. I

didn't realize there were perfect people in the world that always research

before they do. You all are making me feel like a complete idiot because I

didn't research before and have vax'd before. Some people just trust their

doctors. I'm changing the way I see things and trying to get help >>

Shelby,

Did your older ones ever have ear infections? Upper respiratory infections?

Bronchitus? " Lots " of colds? Most of those are the result of compromised

immune systems. Compromised immune systems are most often caused by

vaccines. What so many think of as a natural rite of passage of childhood..

should not be! How often were your older ones on antibiotics? Our

unvaccinated child at the age of 5 has never needed or had an antibiotic..

Greatly unlike his vaccinated siblings.

Think.. research.. and then decide.

Thanks for listening.

[Guest guest]

>>We

make sure the baby eats whole unprocessed foods while we are munching on

nasty things like Hamburger Helper.<<

Why do we do that? I yell at hubby for eating the fresh fruits/veggies, cuz

they are for the kids!

[Guest guest]

Hope this works, I'm replying from the site.

Hey , count yourself lucky that at least you've got a man who

will eat fruit and veggies! My man is worse than a child when it

comes to eating produce. I have to say things like " Honey, at least

eat a few bites " .

Although last night when he got home from work, he proudly told me

that he had eaten broccoli with his lunch that day. I was so

proud!

I've never been much of a cook so I'm having to learn how to cook

without all the processed foods. Although I don't think I'll ever

give up canned cream of mushroom soup because it is the only way I

know how to make a decent gravy when cooking a roast. My mother-in-

law taught me to put it in when cooking the meat. It really does

make a good gravy. I never have been good at gravy.

Kathleen

> >>We

> make sure the baby eats whole unprocessed foods while we are

munching on

> nasty things like Hamburger Helper.<<

>

> Why do we do that? I yell at hubby for eating the fresh

fruits/veggies, cuz they are for the kids!

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/11/2001 2:51:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

colinsapmama@... writes:

> It is an AP list

> and we discuss vaccines a lot,

Sara - what list? I email Dina privately with the same question.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/13/2001 6:39:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

JILBAIT@... writes:

> Sara - what list? I email Dina privately with the same question.

>

The one that I was specifically mentioning is called Attached at the Hip, but

that is local, it is restricted to people in Michigan because we meet in real

life. There are many attachment parenting groups in , all you have to

do is a search on attachment parenting.

Sara

Colin's Ap Mama

A baby will only spoil if you leave it on the shelf.

Come see us at <A

HREF= " http://www.sos.state.mi.us/election/elecadmin/2000web/index.html " > </A>h<A

HREF= " http://members.tripod.com/colinsapmama/ " >ttp://members.tripod.com/colinsap\

mama/</A>