Vaccinations

[Guest guest]

HHV-6 (roseola) was probably a major factor. It can be a really wicked

virus. Giving vaccines at that time was probably not a good idea

considering all the ways this virus can alter the immune system.

----Original Message Follows----

From: " meljackmom " <meljackmom@...>

Reply-

Subject: Vaccinations

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:58:11 -0000

I recently had to update a new preschool with vaccination history,

and was a little amazed/questioned the history I received from the

doctor...it has been awhile since I even bothered looking at it, and

knowing more about the immune system....well I wonder what others

think.

In February 2001, Jack was 14 months old. He got really

sick....high fever (102-103), fatigue....he layed on his back for 3

days. Doctor at the time said it was viral. Days later he got a

rash, and my sister suggested he had roseola. Looked it up and he

pretty fit the symptoms. I phoned the doc's office and said I

suspected roseola and they said yes, could be. But nothing else to

do about it right? He got better in a few days.

Three weeks later we went to the doc's office for 15 month check up

and of course vaccinations. On that day he received

HIB

Varivax (chicken pox)

MMR

Prevnar (for pneumococcal diseases?)

Looking at this now and knowing what I know now really stresses me.

I think his immune system was totally assaulted, and it was of

course after that he started to stagnate. (so many people point to

thimerosol or the MMR itself as a culprit, but most kids get

multiple sticks.)

Had to get this off my chest.

Thanks

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

My son had his MMR shot and then came down with roseola shortly after. I counted

back the days, based on the incubation period, and it appeared that he must have

picked up the roseola at the doctor's office while getting his MMR. He was also

around 14 or 15 months old.

I remember him being very sick with a high fever for a few days. I took him to a

clinic and some very old doctor told me he had measles. I took him to my family

doctor the next day and she said it was roseola. He was never really the same

after that. I had noticed a couple of things beforehand (like he didn't always

seem to hear me when I called his name and he wasn't pointing at things), but he

really dropped out after the roseola/MMR episode. I sometimes wonder if it was

one or both of these factors that tipped him over the edge. I guess I'll never

know.

Sometimes I even wonder if it all started with my flu shot. They gave me one the

day after I gave birth to him. They were giving it to all the new mothers

because we would typically be run down (lack of sleep, etc.) and we were just

heading into flu season so it seemed like a good idea at the time. I asked if it

was okay to have it if I was breastfeeding and they said it was fine. I didn't

have one after having my other two and I wonder sometimes if that had any part

in all of this too.

Rhoda

Vaccinations

Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 12:58:11 -0000

I recently had to update a new preschool with vaccination history,

and was a little amazed/questioned the history I received from the

doctor...it has been awhile since I even bothered looking at it, and

knowing more about the immune system....well I wonder what others

think.

In February 2001, Jack was 14 months old. He got really

sick....high fever (102-103), fatigue....he layed on his back for 3

days. Doctor at the time said it was viral. Days later he got a

rash, and my sister suggested he had roseola. Looked it up and he

pretty fit the symptoms. I phoned the doc's office and said I

suspected roseola and they said yes, could be. But nothing else to

do about it right? He got better in a few days.

Three weeks later we went to the doc's office for 15 month check up

and of course vaccinations. On that day he received

HIB

Varivax (chicken pox)

MMR

Prevnar (for pneumococcal diseases?)

Looking at this now and knowing what I know now really stresses me.

I think his immune system was totally assaulted, and it was of

course after that he started to stagnate. (so many people point to

thimerosol or the MMR itself as a culprit, but most kids get

multiple sticks.)

Had to get this off my chest.

Thanks

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

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Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

My son had roseola at about 6 months old. He was sick with the high fever and

everything- doctor said just to let it run its course. When he started to get

better he broke out in the rash and I called the doctor on-call (weekend) and

explained to him the sickness and then the rash. He said it was roseola and not

to worry.

And of course at that age there are vaccines about every month... but I never

made the connection until your note that it might have been too much for a

system recuperating. Though I do know that the HHV-6 is the big issue for us in

treating my son and I knew that it somehow played a roll.

Interesting...

- in Mobile, AL

Reality lies beyond the horizon...

Wonderwegian

[Guest guest]

> everyone wants to put a name on the cause Mercury, Thermosil, metals. Lead.

or what ever. Vacienines are engineered to stimulate a childs immune system. Our

children already have an over stimulate or otherwise compromised immune system.

The CDC (medical infrastructure) needs to realize that our kids are better at

figthing deaseses than they(CDC)are. Drop the egos and the profit margins and

they would have been fine. Mother nature already developed one hell of a great

immune system, what right do they have to think they are smarter than 4 million

years of evolution. MONEY MONEY MONEY --Politics -- a good friend just acquired

a job as a lobbyist for a pharmacutical company $437.000 thousand dollars a year

to start. Who many vaccines will they sell to pay him???

> From: " meljackmom " <meljackmom@...>

> Date: 2004/09/29 Wed AM 08:58:11 EDT

>

> Subject: Vaccinations

>

> I recently had to update a new preschool with vaccination history,

> and was a little amazed/questioned the history I received from the

> doctor...it has been awhile since I even bothered looking at it, and

> knowing more about the immune system....well I wonder what others

> think.

>

>

> In February 2001, Jack was 14 months old. He got really

> sick....high fever (102-103), fatigue....he layed on his back for 3

> days. Doctor at the time said it was viral. Days later he got a

> rash, and my sister suggested he had roseola. Looked it up and he

> pretty fit the symptoms. I phoned the doc's office and said I

> suspected roseola and they said yes, could be. But nothing else to

> do about it right? He got better in a few days.

>

> Three weeks later we went to the doc's office for 15 month check up

> and of course vaccinations. On that day he received

> HIB

> Varivax (chicken pox)

> MMR

> Prevnar (for pneumococcal diseases?)

>

> Looking at this now and knowing what I know now really stresses me.

> I think his immune system was totally assaulted, and it was of

> course after that he started to stagnate. (so many people point to

> thimerosol or the MMR itself as a culprit, but most kids get

> multiple sticks.)

>

> Had to get this off my chest.

> Thanks

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

[Guest guest]

My take on it is that it's a bad idea to give babies mercury--a known

immuno-suppressant--and then follow it up with multiple shots

containing viruses. I think that sometimes it's MMR, but really the

kids are wide open to any virus that comes along--either in a shot or

from normal environmental exposure.

Jane

On Sep 29, 2004, at 10:03 PM, BristolY@... wrote:

>> everyone wants to put a name on the cause Mercury, Thermosil,

>> metals. Lead. or what ever. Vacienines are engineered to stimulate a

>> childs immune system. Our children already have an over stimulate or

>> otherwise compromised immune system. The CDC (medical infrastructure)

>> needs to realize that our kids are better at figthing deaseses than

>> they(CDC)are. Drop the egos and the profit margins and they would

>> have been fine. Mother nature already developed one hell of a great

>> immune system, what right do they have to think they are smarter than

>> 4 million years of evolution. MONEY MONEY MONEY --Politics -- a good

>> friend just acquired a job as a lobbyist for a pharmacutical company

>> $437.000 thousand dollars a year to start. Who many vaccines will

>> they sell to pay him???

>

>

>

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jane,

I agree. My son regressed with his MMR, but regressed even worse

with roseola. It's just a matter of how many stresses each immune system

can handle before it overloads, I guess.

Becky

Re: Vaccinations

>

> My take on it is that it's a bad idea to give babies mercury--a known

> immuno-suppressant--and then follow it up with multiple shots

> containing viruses. I think that sometimes it's MMR, but really the

> kids are wide open to any virus that comes along--either in a shot or

> from normal environmental exposure.

> Jane

> On Sep 29, 2004, at 10:03 PM, BristolY@... wrote:

>

> >> everyone wants to put a name on the cause Mercury, Thermosil,

> >> metals. Lead. or what ever. Vacienines are engineered to stimulate a

> >> childs immune system. Our children already have an over stimulate or

> >> otherwise compromised immune system. The CDC (medical infrastructure)

> >> needs to realize that our kids are better at figthing deaseses than

> >> they(CDC)are. Drop the egos and the profit margins and they would

> >> have been fine. Mother nature already developed one hell of a great

> >> immune system, what right do they have to think they are smarter than

> >> 4 million years of evolution. MONEY MONEY MONEY --Politics -- a good

> >> friend just acquired a job as a lobbyist for a pharmacutical company

> >> $437.000 thousand dollars a year to start. Who many vaccines will

> >> they sell to pay him???

> >

> >

> >

> > Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> > the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> > opinion of the Research Institute.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

We had our children vaccinated, back in the days when we weren't into nutrition.

I wish we hadn't. We've had the most problem with our 3rd child. After every

vaccine, she immediately responded with some sort of illness. It depleted her

immune system so badly, that she had ongoing ear infections for several months

which led to pneumonia. If I had to do it over again, I'd decline them. FYI -

vaccinations are routine immediately after delivery in many hospitals (at least

here in the US). Thankfully, I did know about that, and turned those down.

Hospital routine here includes Vit K (they claim this is necessary, especially

for boys having circumcision, to improve their clotting factors, although they

offered it to my girls too !!), and Hepatitis B. Other meds given immediately

after birth include silver nitrate/erythromycin in their eyes (to treat possible

infection due to contact with birth canal and STD's there). Stay informed; the

evidence now points to serious problems in the contents of these vaccines,

especially the multi-purpose ones. How can you isolate what a child reacts to,

if a vaccine contained 2 or more viruses? Also, there is concern over mercury

poisoning through vaccines leading to increased autism rates. If your child is

not going to be exposed to likely contaminated people, I would consider delaying

or declining vaccinations altogether.

Rebekah

vaccinations

You don't have to fight the medical system and you don't have to feel

rushed either. Look around for a doctor that supports a parents choice

in either selectively vaxing or not vaxing at all.

Take your time and do the research until you feel satisfied you are

making the best choice for yourself and your child. The schedule that

is put forth by the AAP is only a guideline set up to fit the usual,

routine well baby schedule checkups. It's not written in stone. You

can also choose to do only one at a time, or break up some shots into

only vaccine rather than multiple shots in one.

Don't let anyone tell you it HAS to be done at 2-4-6 months etc. We

have a wonderful doctor that not only supports informed consent but does

not start vaccinating a child until he/she is 12 months old.

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT)

From: Pratick Mukherjee <pratickmukherjee@...>

Greetings,

We will soon be asked to have our daughter vaccinated (she is 4 weeks

old now).

I have been reading about the dangers of vaccination and am really

concerned about it.

What have others on this group chosen to do?

Take a chance and have the " immunisations " done, or fight it out with

the medical system?

Please share your experience.

Regards,

Pratick

[Guest guest]

Gee whiz Marcos, have you been living under a rock your whole

life.....lol? Didn't you get most of these vaccines as a kid?

As for the varicella, if you had chicken pox as a kid, you shouldn't

need that one. I don't know anyone who didn't get chicken pox as a

kid.....hence the " living under a rock " comment

I know that many CMLer's have had the flu shot and as long as it's

not a live vaccine, there shouldn't be a problem.

As for the others, I would check out how much you're at risk of

catching those diseases before deciding whether or not to have the

vaccine.

Isn't polio pretty much eradicated now? I didn't even know that

there was a vaccine for TB but I found a site that suggests it only

be given to a select group of people:

http://www.cdc.gov/tb/pubs/tbfactsheets/BCG.htm

There are risks with all vaccines, the question is, does the benefit

outweigh the risk? I'm going through this decision right now with my

daughter. The province wants to give the HPV vaccine to all 13 year

old girls but from all the reading I've done so far, I have decided

that the risk of the vaccine actually is outweighing the benefit so I

won't have her vaccinated with this particular vaccine. On the other

hand, I did let her have the Hep B vaccine because I feel that the

benefit from that one does outweigh the risk.

Look at each vaccine, the risk they impose and your likelihood of

coming into contact with that disease, then decide if you really need

them. Also, if you do decide to get them, be sure to ask about

interactions with each other. I know that some vaccines are OK to

combine with each other (MMR for example) but others must be given

alone (like the HPV vaccine).

Take care,

Tracey

>

> I need to get my vaccinations in order and just left a message at my

> local hemato asking about incompatibility with cml/gleevec, but it

> takes sometime a while to get an answer. And he's not a cml

specialist

> so I figure it won't hurt to get more opinions. I am 40, dx in march

> 05, in CCR for 2 years, 400mg of gleevec and doing pretty well in

> general. The vaccinations I may (or may not) need are :

> mumps, measles, rubella (MMR)

> diphtheria , polio

> tetanus

> pertussis

> haemophilus influenza type B

> hepatitis B

> varicella

> meningitis

> TB

>

> Marcos

>

>

> --

> Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

> Suppes Brain Lab

> Ventura Hall - CSLI

> Stanford University

> 220 Panama street

> Stanford CA 94305-4101

> 650 614 2305

> 650 630 5015 (cell)

> marcospg@...

> montereyunderwater@...

> www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

>

[Guest guest]

I should have mentioned that it is a bureaucratic problem, nothing rational

I am sure I got most of these but a very long time ago and it would take too

long to get a hand on my vaccination records that are somewhere in France.

Most of the vaccines would have to be redone anyway, again for bureaucratic

reasons. I even got a tetanus shot with 8 stitches in Hawaii in January, but

I don't have the record. I had series of vaccines for travel or when I was

in the army, but last time was about 15 years ago. I didn't get sick from

it, but I didn't have cml.

Marcos.

On 9/12/07, Tracey <traceyincanada@...> wrote:

>

> Gee whiz Marcos, have you been living under a rock your whole

> life.....lol? Didn't you get most of these vaccines as a kid?

>

> As for the varicella, if you had chicken pox as a kid, you shouldn't

> need that one. I don't know anyone who didn't get chicken pox as a

> kid.....hence the " living under a rock " comment

>

> I know that many CMLer's have had the flu shot and as long as it's

> not a live vaccine, there shouldn't be a problem.

>

> As for the others, I would check out how much you're at risk of

> catching those diseases before deciding whether or not to have the

> vaccine.

>

> Isn't polio pretty much eradicated now? I didn't even know that

> there was a vaccine for TB but I found a site that suggests it only

> be given to a select group of people:

> http://www.cdc.gov/tb/pubs/tbfactsheets/BCG.htm

>

> There are risks with all vaccines, the question is, does the benefit

> outweigh the risk? I'm going through this decision right now with my

> daughter. The province wants to give the HPV vaccine to all 13 year

> old girls but from all the reading I've done so far, I have decided

> that the risk of the vaccine actually is outweighing the benefit so I

> won't have her vaccinated with this particular vaccine. On the other

> hand, I did let her have the Hep B vaccine because I feel that the

> benefit from that one does outweigh the risk.

>

> Look at each vaccine, the risk they impose and your likelihood of

> coming into contact with that disease, then decide if you really need

> them. Also, if you do decide to get them, be sure to ask about

> interactions with each other. I know that some vaccines are OK to

> combine with each other (MMR for example) but others must be given

> alone (like the HPV vaccine).

>

> Take care,

> Tracey

>

>

> >

> > I need to get my vaccinations in order and just left a message at my

> > local hemato asking about incompatibility with cml/gleevec, but it

> > takes sometime a while to get an answer. And he's not a cml

> specialist

> > so I figure it won't hurt to get more opinions. I am 40, dx in march

> > 05, in CCR for 2 years, 400mg of gleevec and doing pretty well in

> > general. The vaccinations I may (or may not) need are :

> > mumps, measles, rubella (MMR)

> > diphtheria , polio

> > tetanus

> > pertussis

> > haemophilus influenza type B

> > hepatitis B

> > varicella

> > meningitis

> > TB

> >

> > Marcos

> >

> >

> > --

> > Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

> > Suppes Brain Lab

> > Ventura Hall - CSLI

> > Stanford University

> > 220 Panama street

> > Stanford CA 94305-4101

> > 650 614 2305

> > 650 630 5015 (cell)

> > marcospg@...

> > montereyunderwater@...

> > www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

> >

>

>

>

--

Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

Suppes Brain Lab

Ventura Hall - CSLI

Stanford University

220 Panama street

Stanford CA 94305-4101

650 614 2305

650 630 5015 (cell)

marcospg@...

montereyunderwater@...

www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

[Guest guest]

In that case, you can get blood tests to determine if you already

have antibodies (immunity) to some of those diseases thus sparing you

the need for the vaccine. Many of those vaccines are good for life

and don't need to be repeated so if you had the vaccine at one time,

you should still have the antibodies.

Tracey

> > >

> > > I need to get my vaccinations in order and just left a message

at my

> > > local hemato asking about incompatibility with cml/gleevec, but

it

> > > takes sometime a while to get an answer. And he's not a cml

> > specialist

> > > so I figure it won't hurt to get more opinions. I am 40, dx in

march

> > > 05, in CCR for 2 years, 400mg of gleevec and doing pretty well

in

> > > general. The vaccinations I may (or may not) need are :

> > > mumps, measles, rubella (MMR)

> > > diphtheria , polio

> > > tetanus

> > > pertussis

> > > haemophilus influenza type B

> > > hepatitis B

> > > varicella

> > > meningitis

> > > TB

> > >

> > > Marcos

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

> > > Suppes Brain Lab

> > > Ventura Hall - CSLI

> > > Stanford University

> > > 220 Panama street

> > > Stanford CA 94305-4101

> > > 650 614 2305

> > > 650 630 5015 (cell)

> > > marcospg@

> > > montereyunderwater@

> > > www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

> Suppes Brain Lab

> Ventura Hall - CSLI

> Stanford University

> 220 Panama street

> Stanford CA 94305-4101

> 650 614 2305

> 650 630 5015 (cell)

> marcospg@...

> montereyunderwater@...

> www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tracey. I just got a word from the hemato telling that there is no

restriction on vaccines because of the cml (I have normal blood counts). I

agree they do carry some risk, I ll see my pcp at Kaiser to discuss that and

get what I need and what I can evade.

Cheers,

Marcos.

On 9/12/07, Tracey <traceyincanada@...> wrote:

>

> In that case, you can get blood tests to determine if you already

> have antibodies (immunity) to some of those diseases thus sparing you

> the need for the vaccine. Many of those vaccines are good for life

> and don't need to be repeated so if you had the vaccine at one time,

> you should still have the antibodies.

>

> Tracey

>

>

> > > >

> > > > I need to get my vaccinations in order and just left a message

> at my

> > > > local hemato asking about incompatibility with cml/gleevec, but

> it

> > > > takes sometime a while to get an answer. And he's not a cml

> > > specialist

> > > > so I figure it won't hurt to get more opinions. I am 40, dx in

> march

> > > > 05, in CCR for 2 years, 400mg of gleevec and doing pretty well

> in

> > > > general. The vaccinations I may (or may not) need are :

> > > > mumps, measles, rubella (MMR)

> > > > diphtheria , polio

> > > > tetanus

> > > > pertussis

> > > > haemophilus influenza type B

> > > > hepatitis B

> > > > varicella

> > > > meningitis

> > > > TB

> > > >

> > > > Marcos

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

> > > > Suppes Brain Lab

> > > > Ventura Hall - CSLI

> > > > Stanford University

> > > > 220 Panama street

> > > > Stanford CA 94305-4101

> > > > 650 614 2305

> > > > 650 630 5015 (cell)

> > > > marcospg@

> > > > montereyunderwater@

> > > > www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > Marcos Perreau Guimaraes

> > Suppes Brain Lab

> > Ventura Hall - CSLI

> > Stanford University

> > 220 Panama street

> > Stanford CA 94305-4101

> > 650 614 2305

> > 650 630 5015 (cell)

> > marcospg@...

> > montereyunderwater@...

> > www.stanford.edu/~marcospg/

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Robyn,

Wait until after you see Dr. G to do anything concerning vaccines. Remember

most everyone else is vaccinated so your child is safe. Anyway, Dr. G does

vaccines on an alternate schedule so as not to tax the immune system.

Marcia

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Marcia. That's what my gut was telling me.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Robyn

Marcia Hinds <hindssite@...> wrote:

Robyn,

Wait until after you see Dr. G to do anything concerning vaccines. Remember

most everyone else is vaccinated so your child is safe. Anyway, Dr. G does

vaccines on an alternate schedule so as not to tax the immune system.

Marcia

[Guest guest]

Does anyone have a " list " of the alternate vaccination

schedule Dr. Goldberg uses? If so, would you send it

to me or post it?

Thanks-

--- Robyn & Greg Coggins <rngcoggs@...>

wrote:

> Thanks, Marcia. That's what my gut was telling me.

>

> Happy Thanksgiving!

>

> Robyn

>

> Marcia Hinds <hindssite@...> wrote:

> Robyn,

>

> Wait until after you see Dr. G to do anything

> concerning vaccines. Remember

> most everyone else is vaccinated so your child is

> safe. Anyway, Dr. G does

> vaccines on an alternate schedule so as not to tax

> the immune system.

>

> Marcia

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Be a better pen pal.

Text or chat with friends inside . See how.

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[Guest guest]

,

It's old, but here it is! I don't think that anything has really changed as

far as his opinions on this, so it's probably still " good " . I pulled it off

of the " Ask Dr. Goldberg " section on his website a long time ago... I don't

know if they still have that section with the new site design.

By the way, he had us check our little guy for immunity gained from the MMR

and since he DID have immunity, we were able to avoid the kindergarten

booster. We have to take a letter in to the school EVERY year stating that

he showed immunity, though.

Caroline

Here's what Dr. G said...

" In general (depending upon the child, general health, allergy prevention,

etc.) I would give the DPT / Polio / Hib (generally OK together) at 2, 4, 6

months old, DPT / Polio booster at 18 months old (note: still believe in

Tylenol or Advil or Motrin for 24 hrs starting with a dose before heading to

the physicians office), I do not give Hepatitis B in the nursery but

generally give it during baby visits (not at same time as other vaccines).

MMR (I do not generally separate it) can be given 12 15 months old

(depending on measles risk in your area, time of year, etc.) ?? delay a

little later (IF no exposure risk to measles). I am not currently in favor

of the chickenpox vaccine before adolescence and do not recommend the 5 year

MMR to any children in the practice (believe 10 11 yr. old booster far more

logical medically).

As I have discussed, the biggest key to lowering the risks for your son, is

good allergy control, dietary eliminations, maintain a healthy not stressed

child (under which circumstances the vaccines are fine too give) Again

please see presentations and discussions on this site for further

discussion. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

Personally, I have had just about every vaccination there is,

including Typhoid, Hep A and B, Cholera and Yellow Fever. I had the

first vaccinations for polio (thank God) in the early 50s and all the other kid

vacs of my " era " . We didn't have the MMR vac at the time, so I got measles,

mumps, and chicken pox, as did my peers. CMT manifested symptoms in me at age 7.

This was not due to vaccinations, it is because CMT is in my unique genetic code

and that's when it first became manifest. Below is info from Quackwatch.com and

you might find this link interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination

Gretchen

from Quackwatch.com

Misconceptions about Immunization Misconception #9:

Vaccines cause autism

On October 3, 1999, Cable News Network aired a program on which the

parents of three-year-old Liam Reynolds stated that he had developed

autism two weeks after receiving measles, mumps and rubella (MMR)

vaccine [1]. The program included the views of Cave, M.D.,

a Louisiana physician who " specializes in treating autism " with diet

and nutritional supplements [2]. An American Academy of Pediatrics

official and explained why there was no reason to believe that a link

exists between autism and vaccination. But the dramatic before-and-

after videotapes of the child probably had enough impact to persuade

many parents to avoid having their children vaccinated. The program's

narrator stated there had been " a puzzling jump in the number of

children being diagnosed with autism. " However, the number being

diagnosed may reflect increased reporting of cases rather than an

increase in actual incidence.

Autism is a chronic developmental disorder characterized by problems

in social interaction, communication, and restrictive and repetitive

interests and activities. Autism may be initially noted in infancy as

impaired attachment, but it is most often first identified in

toddlers, mostly boys, from 18 to 30 months of age. Boys are 3-4

times more likely to be afflicted with autism than girls. Girls as a

group, however, may be more severely affected. Correct diagnosis of

autism depends on an accurate developmental history focused on types

of behaviors typical of autism and on evaluation of functional

skills. Approximately 75% of persons with autism are mentally

retarded. Fewer than 5% of children with autistic traits have fragile

X or another known chromosomal abnormality. Although no cure exists,

autism is treatable. Symptoms associated with autism often improve as

children start to acquire language and learn how to communicate their

needs.

In most cases of autism, no cause is apparent. In a few cases,

biologic causes have been identified, although none are unique to

autism. Some prenatal factors include intrauterine rubella; tuberous

sclerosis; chromosomal abnormalities, such as Down's syndrome; as

well as brain abnormalities, such as hydrocephalus. Frequently cited

postnatal conditions associated with autism are untreated

phenylketonuria, infantile spasms, and herpes simplex encephalitis.

In the majority of cases, however, no underlying cause can be

identified.

The current theory favored by many experts is that autism is a

genetically-based disorder that occurs before birth [3]. Studies of

persons with autism are finding abnormalities in brain structures

that develop in the first few weeks of fetal development [4].

Evidence that genetics is an important, but not exclusive, cause of

autism includes a 3-8% risk of recurrence in families with one

affected child. A working group convened by the National Institutes

of Health in 1995 reached a consensus that autism is a genetic

condition. An issue unresolved by the group was the role of immune

factors in autism spectrum disorders; it was suggested that studies

to clarify the situation are needed.

No Evidence of Link

Some parents of children with autism believe that there is a link

between measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism. However,

there is no sensible reason to believe that any vaccine can cause

autism or any kind of behavioral disorder. Typically, symptoms of

autism are first noted by parents as their child begins to have

difficulty with delays in speaking after age one. MMR vaccine is

first given to children at 12-15 months of age. Since this is also an

age when autism commonly becomes apparent, it is not surprising that

autism follows MMR immunization in some cases. However, by far the

most logical explanation is coincidence, not cause-and-effect.

If measles vaccine or any other vaccine causes autism, it would have

to be a very rare occurrence, because millions of children have

received vaccines without ill health effects. The only " evidence "

linking MMR vaccine and autism was published in the British journal

Lancet in 1998 [5]. An editorial published in the same issue,

however, discussed concerns about the validity of the study [6].

Based on data from 12 patients, Dr. Wakefield (a British

gastroenterologist) and colleagues speculated that MMR vaccine may

have been the possible cause of bowel problems which led to a

decreased absorption of essential vitamins and nutrients which

resulted in developmental disorders like autism. No scientific

analyses were reported, however, to substantiate the theory. Whether

this series of 12 cases represent an unusual or unique clinical

syndrome is difficult to judge without knowing the size of the

patient population and time period over which the cases were

identified. If there happened to be selective referral of patients

with autism to the researchers' practice, for example, the reported

case series may simply reflect such referral bias. Moreover, the

theory that autism may be caused by poor absorption of nutrients due

to bowel inflammation is senseless and is not supported by the

clinical data. In at least 4 of the 12 cases, behavioral problems

appeared before the onset of symptoms of inflammatory bowel disease.

Furthermore, since publication of their original report in February

of 1998, Wakefield and colleagues have published another study in

which highly specific laboratory assays in patients with inflammatory

bowel disease, the posited mechanism for autism after MMR

vaccination, were negative for measles virus [7,8].

Other recent investigations also do not support a causal association

between MMR (or other measles-containing vaccines) and autism or

inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) [9-13]. In one investigation, a

Working Party on MMR Vaccine of the United Kingdom's Committee on

Safety of Medicines (1999) was charged with the evaluation of several

hundred reports, collected by a firm of lawyers, of autism, Crohn's

disease, or similar disorders developing after receipt of MMR or MR

vaccines. The Working Party conducted a systematic, standardized

review of parental and physician information. Although acknowledging

that it is impossible to prove or refute the suggested associations

(because of variable data quality, biased selection of cases, and

lack of a control group), the Working Party concluded that the

information available " ... did not support the suggested causal

associations or give cause for concern about the safety of MMR or MR

vaccines. " [12] In March 2000, a Medical Research Council report

concludes that between March 1998 and September 1999 no new evidence

had suggested a causal link between MMR and autism or IBD [13]. The

American Medical Association has reached the same conclusion.

A study by and colleagues provides population-based evidence

that overcomes many of the limitations faced by the Working Party and

by Wakefield and colleagues [14,15]. The authors identified all 498

known cases of autism spectrum disorders (ASD) in certain districts

of London born in 1979 or later and linked them to an independent

regional vaccination registry. ASD includes classical autism,

atypical autism, and Asperger's syndrome, but the results were

similar when cases of classical autism were analyzed separately. The

authors noted:

The known number of ASD cases has been increasing since 1979, but

there was no jump after the introduction of MMR vaccine in 1988.

Cases vaccinated before 18 months of age had similar ages at

diagnosis as did cases who had been vaccinated after 18 months or not

vaccinated, indicating that vaccination does not result in earlier

expression of autistic characteristics.

At age two years, the MMR vaccination coverage among the ASD cases

was nearly identical to coverage in children in the same birth

cohorts in the whole region, providing evidence of an overall lack of

association with vaccination.

The first diagnosis of autism or initial signs of behavioral

regression were not more likely to occur within time periods

following vaccination than during other time periods.

A weak statistical association existed between MMR vaccination and

initial parental concern, but this appears to have been due to

parents' difficulty in recalling precise age at onset and a

preference for approximating the age as 18 months.

A study of the population of children in two communities in Sweden

also found no evidence of an association between MMR vaccination and

autism [16]. That study found no difference in the prevalence of

autism in children born after the introduction of MMR vaccination in

Sweden compared with children born before.

In January 1990, an Institute of Medicine committee examining

possible health effects associated with DPT vaccine concluded that

there was no evidence to indicate a causal relation between DPT

vaccine or the pertussis component of DPT vaccine and autism [17].

Also, data obtained from CDC's Monitoring System for Adverse Events

Following Immunization (MASAEFI) system, showed no reports of autism

occurring within 28 days of DPT immunization from 1978-1990, a period

in which approximately 80.1 million doses of DPT vaccine were

administered in the United States. From January 1990 through February

1998, only 15 cases of autism behavior disorder after immunization

were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS).

Because of the small number of reports over an 8-year period, the

cases reported are likely to represent unrelated chance occurrences

that happened around the time of vaccination. The most frequent

vaccines cited in the reports were diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis

(DPT), oral polio vaccine (OPV), and MMR. Other vaccines reported as

having a possible association with autism were Haemophilus influenzae

type B and Hepatitis B.

In 2000, the American Academy of Pediatrics convened a

multidisciplinary panel of experts ro review what is known about the

development, epidemiology, and genetics of ASD and the hypothesized

associations with IBD, measles, and MMR vaccine. The panel concluded:

Although the possible association with MMR vaccine has received much

public and political attention and there are many who have derived

their own conclusions based on personal experiences, the available

evidence does not support the hypothesis that MMR vaccine causes

autism or associated disorders or IBD. Separate administration of

measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines to children provides no benefit

over administration of the combination MMR vaccine and would result

in delayed or missed immunizations. Pediatricians need to work with

families to ensure that children are protected early in the second

year of life from these preventable diseases. Continued scientific

efforts need to be directed to the identification of the causes of

ASD [18].

The fact that autism is diagnosed during the second or third year of

life does not mean that it began at that age. Analyses of home movies

made from birth onward have shown that most children who are

diagnosed as autistic during the second or third year have abnormal

signs during the first year—and some even show abnormalities at birth

[19-26].

Recently, the National Childhood Encephalopathy Study (NCES) was

examined to see if there was any link between measles vaccine and

neurological events. Researchers in England found no indication that

measles vaccine contributes to the development of educational and

behavioral deficits or other possible signs of long-term neurological

damage [27].

Most people have no adverse reaction after receiving a MMR

vaccination. About 5%-15% of vaccines may develop a fever 5-12 days

after MMR vaccination and 5% may develop a rash. Central nervous

system conditions, including encephalitis and encephalopathy, have

been reported with a frequency of less than one per million doses

administered. In July 2002, after Wakefield testified before a U.S.

Congressional committee chaired by a vaccine opponent, Dr.

Fitzpatrick (a British general physician and parenbt of an autistic

child) charged that Wakefield " has opted out of medical science to

join the world of pseudoscientific dogma, media celebrity and

populist campaigning. " [29] In a devastating review of the conduct of

Wakefield and Shattock, a pharmacist and vaccine opponent who

runs the so-called Autism Research Unit at the University of

Sunderland, Fitzpatrick stated:

There is now a flourishing network of private laboratories offering

urine and blood tests of the sort carried out by Mr Shattock—all of

no recognised diagnostic value. There is a substantial business

sector selling dietary supplements, vitamins, minerals, enzymes and

all manner of special dietary products —all of no proven therapeutic

value. The common feature of both tests and supplements is their

exorbitant cost, suggesting that high profits are being made from

peddling interventions of no proven value, often to desperate

parents, many on low incomes.

There are other beneficiaries of the anti-MMR campaign. Private GPs

are now making profits of several hundred percent from selling

separate vaccines. Lawyers are eagerly collecting legal aid fees by

inflating the hopes of parents that they may gain substantial

compensation for the alleged damages from MMR through the pursuit of

litigation. It is not surprising that both are enthusiastic

supporters of Dr Wakefield's crusade. It seems that Britain's

investigative journalists are so smitten by Dr Wakefield's charisma

and so credulous towards junk science, that they are reluctant to

investigate the real abuses generated around the anti-MMR campaign

[29].

As with the administration of any agent that can produce fever, some

children may have a febrile seizure. Most that follow measles

vaccination are simple febrile seizures and affect children without

known risk factors. An increased risk of febrile convulsions may

occur among children with a prior history of convulsions.

The Bottom Line

There are no proven data to suggest that measles vaccine will

increase the risk of developing autism or any other behavioral

disorder [28]. The known benefits vastly exceed any unknown risks.

The CDC continues to recommend two doses of MMR vaccine for all

children who do not have a known medical contraindication; the first

dose is recommended at 12-15 months of age and the second dose is

recommended at either 4-6 years of age or at 11-12 years of age

[30,31].

To assure the safety of vaccines, the CDC, the FDA, the National

Institutes of Health (NIH), and other federal agencies routinely

examine any new evidence that would suggest possible problems with

the safety of vaccines. Currently, CDC is conducting a study in the

metropolitan Atlanta area to further evaluate any possible

association between MMR vaccination and autism.

Immunization against measles has led to a dramatic decrease in the

incidence of measles, which is sometimes fatal. I believe that the

manner in which CNN covered this issue was extremely irresponsible

and will result in the death of children whose parents are scared out

of having their children receive it.

[Guest guest]

Amy, forgot to send this in my last post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Actually, we don't know exactly what causes genetic mutations in all cases, so

in all honesty, vaccinations have to stay on the table for consideration. Too

many children (and to a lesser extent, adults) die, or are severely, and

permanently, disabled each year due

specifically to vaccinations. And those are just the ones that we know about due

to lawsuits/reporting. And, remember, each corpus is different, and so responds

to environmental impacts differently.

[Guest guest]

Well, we could debate immunizations until the cows come home, but I will

refrain. What I will say is that as there are in many areas, there is alot of

" conflicts of interest " going on within large pharmaceutical companies, the CDC,

the FDA, etc. There are people who stand to lose financially if vaccinations and

other drugs are pulled from the market. Pediatricians are at the bottom of the

food chain when it comes to pay, and vaccinations are another revenue generating

" vertical market " for them.

There are also lots of harmful preservatives that that are still used in many of

these vaccinations, and I believe that this is just another area where people

should educate themselves about this as well as other things.

The verdict on whether Autism is caused by the MMR vac is still out there. I

personally believe that vaccinations should be given only if the benefit

outweighs the risk. It seems to me that the risks could be chronic diseases like

diabetes, autism, MS, etc...and these are too serious to discount. Diseases like

Polio are really serious too, but I do not necessarily believe that the

vaccination itself has decreased the incidents of polio, rather general

improvements in nutrition, sanitation, and standards in medical care might be

the reason Polio has been practically eradicated.

I was vaccinated too...but it was because my parents were of that generation

that thought that doctors were " Gods " and failed to use their own reasoning

skills and trusted that the doctors knew what they were doing. We all know that

doctors can make mistakes.

As far as the link with vaccinations and CMT...for me, I believe that I was

possibly born with a mutation in my f/Simple gene that eventually led to

CMT. However, I believe that had I not been vaccinated, had I not had so much

radiation as a child from bladder problems, had I not been given so many

antibiotics over the course of my life, had I not had too much sun exposure, had

I not eaten crap most of my life, my DNA might have not have been damaged to a

point to where this mutated gene decided to " activate " .

My hope is that by avoiding all of those items listed above with my children, it

may perhaps " spare " them of their mutated gene/CMT raising its ugly head too.

That is at least my " hope " for my daughter, Hope:)

Amy Hodge

[Guest guest]

I wondered that after my son was diagnosed with CMT at age 3. We

thought of anything that could have caused it. The CMT was caused by

something in his genes (DNA), not anything in the environment. You

still wonder about it though. He recently had the Polio vaccine at age

4 and could barely walk for 2 days. I think it was because he was sore

and his muscles weaken so much more than other kids. We have done all

of the vaccines on him.

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

You said < " had I not been given so many antibiotics over the course

of my life, had I not had too much sun exposure, had I not eaten crap

most of my life, my DNA might have not have been damaged to a point

to where this mutated gene decided to " activate " . >

I just want you to know I had many antibiotics over the years, hard

core ones both intreveinous and strong injection types) especially

for Rheumatic Fever and several major staph infections. While my diet

was good as a child, once away at college my diet included way to

much alcohol. other substances and tons of junk food. In addition,

I grew up on the So. California beaches, lived in the sun of Phoenix

for a long time, and vacationed often at numerous beaches - I had

intense exposure to sun for close to 50 years. Having a deep tan was extremely

important to me for quite awhile. None of this had anything to do with CMT

manifesting in me. (The alcohol only made CMT worse and my general health

suffered greatly)

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Gretchen's response was spot-on. I'd just like to stress that CMT is a

genetic disorder. It is triggered by choosing the right (or wrong)

parents, not by getting a vaccine. I am also an MD and I have

vaccinated all of my children. I strongly believe that it is protective

and a good thing to do. If a very few folks choose to skip it they will

probably be lucky enough to be protected by the rest of us who did get

vaccinated and our " herd immunity " . However, the wild-type pertussis,

measles, polio, meningitis, etc, etc are SOOOO much worse than vaccine

side effects, possibly deadly. I wouldn't take the chance with MY

children. At the very worst, if there are side effects I know to be

watching for them and treating them because I know the moment of

exposure, unlike a random encounter with a virulent bug. There is a

good reason why childhood deaths are now shockingly rare when it was

not uncommon for several siblings to not reach adulthood in our

grandparent's era and before. Vaccinations have had the biggest

positive impact on childhood mortality rates of almost any of our

societal improvements.

Holli in Topanga, CA

[Guest guest]

Amy,

You echo my words. Adam's CMT was not bad and 's was so mild the doctor

was not even sure that she had CMT. UNTIL the vaccinations. I finally found a

doctor that agreed with me about the neuro- toxic effects of the DPT series. She

explained that the old DPT

was a toxin but the new killed version is safe.

I broke down and let my CMT kids have the rest of the series of killed DPT. I

was so scared but it was okay. The set at 4 is what really set the CMT off in my

kids. My experience of course. Think about how many of our kids are diagnosed

with CMT after the first school shots. So YES I did see a trigger with the

vaccinations.

[Guest guest]

Originally I sent my response to Amy personally and noit to the group, but now I

think I'll send it to all since there are so many of you who unwisely seem to

agree with her.

Amy, I apologize in advance if my email seems harsh, but I feel very

strongly.

In my youth I worked in a neurological hospital. If you have ever seen what

measles can do to a child in terms of retardation and/or blindness, you would

run out and get your child vaccinated. CMT was around long before vaccinations.

You might reconsider your decision after reading the following:

_http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/AtlanticMonthlyVaccines.html_

(http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/AtlanticMonthlyVaccines.html)

_http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA6D2.htm_

(http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA6D2.htm)

I have personally seen what measles can do, and I have heard from a late friend

of my mother's how very sick she was as a child with whooping cough. You are

doing nothing more than relying on other parents to vaccinate their children so

yours won't get sick. That is at the very least shortsighted as enough of you

could do the same thing, which would assure the return of these dread diseases

to say nothing about the added risk you are imposing on the immune compromised

children who can't get the vaccinations.

Elinor

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I have no idea about whether or not vaccinations could set off CMT although I

believe that they can set off other things so CMT could quite easily be one of

them. I just wanted to say though, that I have two children with CMT 1A, a 12

yr old girl and a 6 yr old boy and neither of them have had vaccinations at all

as I believe they are extremely harmful. So they haven't had anything to set

off their CMT, it just progressed naturally (or as naturally as something as

stupid as CMT can progress).

Megs from NZ

Amy, You echo my words. Adam's CMT was not bad and 's was so mild the

doctor was not even sure that she had CMT. UNTIL the vaccinations. I finally

found a doctor that agreed with me about the neuro- toxic effects of the DPT

series. She explained that the old DPT was a toxin but the new killed version is

safe. I broke down and let my CMT kids have the rest of the series of killed

DPT. I was so scared but it was okay. The set at 4 is what really set the CMT

off in my kids. My experience of course. Think about how many of our kids are

diagnosed with CMT after the first school shots. So YES I did see a trigger with

the vaccinations.

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