RE: This view towards sex is fatal

[Guest guest]

Chifu,

You just can't help yourself, can you! You say you had to read the article three times to even begin to get it....well, you should have tried four. Throughout the article, I have said one thing...we need to talk about sex! Chifu, people are dying because they are not being educated on sex. The who topic of sex is shameful when it need not be. The teenage orphans I support don't discuss sex with their grandmothers, my own mother didn't really talk about sex with me, my friends can attest to the same...so where do the youth go for information? They aren't free to walk up to family planning clinics...there, they would meet their mothers, aunts etc who would want to know why in the first place they were seeking such information! Schools aren't REALLY teaching it either. So where do they go?

I think it is VERY irresponsible of you to make a comment such as "whether in Kenya or California, sex education must not be distorted by terrifying, dubious misinformation that equates sex with death or high rate of hiv/aids." Such a comment shocks me more so because it comes from you, who helps provide HIV/AIDS rates to these forums...do you read them yourself? Though drug abuse is in on the increase among Kenyan youth, HIV/AIDS has been spread mainly through sex...yes, Chifu...I can equate sex with the death and high rate of HIV/AIDS!!! It doesn't have to be the case, but it is, over and over again. And perhaps you are the only Kenyan person I know, who has not lost a friend, a sister, a brother, a neighbour to AIDS that was acquired through sex.

I do not believe that dialogue encourages "promiscuity." Traditionally, our mothers, especially around initiation periods, took us to camps of sorts in the forest where they educated us on family life and sex. That doesn't happen anymore. The average teenager, as Geoff correctly says, does not have anyone (adult) to confide in. And then there's the other side...many adults who have access to condoms, choose not to use them! And as ridiculous as this sounds, some, despite the death all around, still believe that folks are dying from T.B, pneumonia etc. and not AIDS!

I encourage healthy conversation and education on sex. And I maintain that by failing to do so, we will continue to die. Chifu, you made the comment to these forums a few weeks ago that you are not at risk of getting HIV...Chifu, you are a sexually healthy man...those who have acquired the disease are folks just like you...you are not immortal. One advantage you do have however, is access to information that many other active folks don't have...if you don't think that the information is important, pray don't attempt to prevent them from getting it, that they too might make educated decisions on how to conduct themselves sexually. Chifu, you may moderate for Kenyan AIDS groups, but you've been gone from Kenya a LONG time and are not in touch. Go to the ground, put your ear to it and listen to the folks - I am sure you will hear the some of the same things Geoff and I heard.

Have a good, safe day!

Mwende

[Guest guest]

Hello to the Forum;

This is a short one, believe it or not!

I think that chifu is describing a religious definition of what mothers and

elders are required to do.

I have heard from others who are not so connected with religion that it is

the opposite.

The research also does not indicate that additional information brings

forward the first sex experience, it is the contrary.

However the religious right through its operatives in the parliamentary

systems have shut down the opportunities for this research to be continued

except in Latrobe University in Melbourne where regular internet based

surveys gather enormous amounts of useful information from young unmarried

sexually active young people.

Surprisingly their surveys are also located by cross posting from many other

countries in the world and these international responses have to be culled

out because it is a n based study.

Overwhelmingly the respondents find the opportunity to answer questions

about their sexuality and to also raise some of their own, very exciting and

liberating.

One of the responses I read was from an African who said there was no one he

could talk to where he lives, not parent, doctor, school, or even church. He

was overjoyed that at last someone was asking the relevant questions and

providing opportunities for people to either agree or disagree with a given

statement and to provide reasons for their choice.

Mwende is correct as is Salt and Pepa that in an era of AIDS ignorance =

infection and silence = death.

Vaccines are some time away. Curative medicine is being investigated, The

best prospect it no new infections and the tools for that are obvious. The

only problem is that there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Geoffrey

Geoff Heaviside

Convenor - Brimbank Community Initiatives Inc

Secretary - International Centre for Health Equity Inc

P.O. Box 606 Sunshine 3020

. Australia.

Ph: 0418 328 278

Ph/Fax : (61 3) 9449 1856

or in India

Mr Geoff Heaviside

Mobile : (91) 9840 097 178 (Only when in India)

" Concern for what is right causes us to do our best - Knowledge of what is

best inspires us to do what is right. "

>From: " Chifu " <Chifu2222@...>

>Reply-AIDS treatments

>kenyaonline , mwendemwinzi@...,

>groups, africa-oped

>Subject: This view towards sex is fatal

>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:45:45 -0000

>

_________________________________________________________________

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Folks,

I read Mwende's article and correct me but isn't it a fact and

traditional for African elders and mothers to protect our adolescents

from receiving education on sexual matters in the belief that

ignorance will encourage chastity? whether in Kenya or California, sex

education must not be distorted by terrifying, dubious misinformation

that equates sex with death or high rate of hiv/aids. Maybe I am

reading her comments differently.

Chifu

This view towards sex is fatal

Story by MWENDE MWINZI / Talking Point

Publication Date: 04/11/2004

When the American pop music group, Salt N Pepa, first released their

hit song, Let's Talk About Sex, millions of parents and religious

leaders expressed synchronised alarm at what they viewed as the

continuation of a trend biased towards moral decadence.

And, yet, the lyrics demanded it – " Let's talk about sex baby – Let's

talk about all the good things and the bad things that may be – "

Years later, though the song, now widely accepted, can be heard

booming in the background of anti-Aids campaigns and condom

commercials, there lies clear evidence that its message has not been

heard – our view towards sex continues to prove fatal.

I have been told that there used to be a time when mothers isolated

their daughters for the express purpose of discussing the intimate

details of sex. Such time, determined by factors like the physical

changes in the teen, were a precursor for marriage and allowed for a

healthy course on family life.

These discussions, I am also informed, were not subtle; rather, they

included demonstrations focused on how to please a husband. After

all, if not to satisfy her mate, of what use was a wife? Such

details, if valid, would falsify the popularised notion that suggests

that sexual openness is a Western concept and that many of our

liberal views towards it are to be blamed on the West.

What happened to this healthy approach? At which point in history did

the topic become taboo? The average mother today shuns sexual

discussions almost entirely, making room only for caution against

premarital pregnancy. And do fathers ever discuss such intimacies

with their children? The HIV/Aids prevalence rates answer that

question.

We seem to have lost our grounding on the issue, and we are paying

for this with our lives. At a time when sexually transmissible

infections are not only serious but also fatal, we should be

examining the root cause behind their fast spread. How do our

cultures contribute to the ignorance about sex and its dangers? Do

our irrational fears about sexual discussions fan the flames of HIV?

While I have much respect for institutionalised religion, I am

admittedly bothered by some positions taken. The attempts to suppress

the natural gravitation towards sex are particularly bothersome.

Undoubtedly, abstinence is most ideal in the prevention against

HIV/Aids, but is it realistic to attempt to control " natural "

behaviour particularly in the youth?

In this day, when over 86 per cent of women and 92 per cent of men

believe that there is a way to avoid HIV, how many teenagers have

access to condoms or the control to abstain?

An honest backward step in our critique of Western culture as it

relates to sex is necessary. Indisputably, the West almost eroticises

suggestions of " loose " behaviour. Advertisements, be they of food or

mechanical gear, incorporate sexual undertones. Yes, everything must

be " sexy. "

The pop culture popularises suggestive gyrations; clothing trends

encourage skin exposure and discussions, be they of health or

otherwise, frequently focus on sexual appeal. Quite frankly, it is

overbearing! But though I sigh, I wonder – are they not better off

than we are? Is it possible that such openness betters education and

higher control against loose sex?

Does suppressing discussions suppress emotions or urges? We owe it to

ourselves to decriminalise this taboo topic by fighting the socially

conservative views that forbid healthy sexual expression and,

therein, prohibit sexual health and safety. By regarding sex as

dangerous, we flirt with danger itself. Demystify it and it might

lose some of it appeal!

Our attitudes towards this subject are ultimately killing us! We can

import all the condoms in the world but of what use are they if they

have no recipients or users? Consider this fact – though condom use

is clearly recognised as one of the most important means of

preventing the spread of HIV/Aids, only about 25 per cent of females

and 42 per cent of men in Kenya use condoms with non-cohabiting

partners!

Is this because " the sweet is best without its wrapper, " because our

cultures bring shame to the acquisition of condoms or because certain

religious bodies prohibit their use? Whatever the case, good

decisions are based on self-respect and education – a view, in this

case, that advocates the voluntary modification of behaviour.

We all understand sex, we just pretend not to! I'll side with Salt N

Pepa on this one – we need to engage in healthy dialogue on the

issue, accept its naturalness, appreciate its value and respect its

harms. We must talk about it! Yes, " Let's talk about all the good

things and the bad things that may be – "

Ms Mwinzi is an assistant vice-president with the New York-based

Nomura Corporate Research and Asset Management Inc.

--- End forwarded message ---

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http://www./group/aids-africa (a group made up of Africans worldwide)

Join Digital Africa- an information technology group that discusses IT in Africa at http://www./group/digafrica

[Guest guest]

Dear Chifu

I believe Mwende hit the nail right on the head. What do you mean by our

" elders and mothers to protect our adolescents from receiving education on

sexual matters in the belief that ignorance will encourage chastity " It

might be true for Kenya but not in southern Africa. I know for a fact that

initiation rituals for adolescents include sex education, and the curricula

does not in any way include scary aspects of sex, rather, among other

things, the education empowers the youth with the skills to enjoy sex.

Chigodora

Harare

This view towards sex is fatal

> Folks,

>

> I read Mwende's article and correct me but isn't it a fact and

> traditional for African elders and mothers to protect our adolescents

> from receiving education on sexual matters in the belief that

> ignorance will encourage chastity? whether in Kenya or California, sex

> education must not be distorted by terrifying, dubious misinformation

> that equates sex with death or high rate of hiv/aids. Maybe I am

> reading her comments differently.

>

> Chifu

>

>

> This view towards sex is fatal

> Story by MWENDE MWINZI / Talking Point

> Publication Date: 04/11/2004

>

> When the American pop music group, Salt N Pepa, first released their

> hit song, Let's Talk About Sex, millions of parents and religious

> leaders expressed synchronised alarm at what they viewed as the

> continuation of a trend biased towards moral decadence.

>

> And, yet, the lyrics demanded it - " Let's talk about sex baby - Let's

> talk about all the good things and the bad things that may be - "

> Years later, though the song, now widely accepted, can be heard

> booming in the background of anti-Aids campaigns and condom

> commercials, there lies clear evidence that its message has not been

> heard - our view towards sex continues to prove fatal.

>

> I have been told that there used to be a time when mothers isolated

> their daughters for the express purpose of discussing the intimate

> details of sex. Such time, determined by factors like the physical

> changes in the teen, were a precursor for marriage and allowed for a

> healthy course on family life.

>

> These discussions, I am also informed, were not subtle; rather, they

> included demonstrations focused on how to please a husband. After

> all, if not to satisfy her mate, of what use was a wife? Such

> details, if valid, would falsify the popularised notion that suggests

> that sexual openness is a Western concept and that many of our

> liberal views towards it are to be blamed on the West.

>

> What happened to this healthy approach? At which point in history did

> the topic become taboo? The average mother today shuns sexual

> discussions almost entirely, making room only for caution against

> premarital pregnancy. And do fathers ever discuss such intimacies

> with their children? The HIV/Aids prevalence rates answer that

> question.

>

> We seem to have lost our grounding on the issue, and we are paying

> for this with our lives. At a time when sexually transmissible

> infections are not only serious but also fatal, we should be

> examining the root cause behind their fast spread. How do our

> cultures contribute to the ignorance about sex and its dangers? Do

> our irrational fears about sexual discussions fan the flames of HIV?

>

> While I have much respect for institutionalised religion, I am

> admittedly bothered by some positions taken. The attempts to suppress

> the natural gravitation towards sex are particularly bothersome.

> Undoubtedly, abstinence is most ideal in the prevention against

> HIV/Aids, but is it realistic to attempt to control " natural "

> behaviour particularly in the youth?

>

> In this day, when over 86 per cent of women and 92 per cent of men

> believe that there is a way to avoid HIV, how many teenagers have

> access to condoms or the control to abstain?

>

> An honest backward step in our critique of Western culture as it

> relates to sex is necessary. Indisputably, the West almost eroticises

> suggestions of " loose " behaviour. Advertisements, be they of food or

> mechanical gear, incorporate sexual undertones. Yes, everything must

> be " sexy. "

>

> The pop culture popularises suggestive gyrations; clothing trends

> encourage skin exposure and discussions, be they of health or

> otherwise, frequently focus on sexual appeal. Quite frankly, it is

> overbearing! But though I sigh, I wonder - are they not better off

> than we are? Is it possible that such openness betters education and

> higher control against loose sex?

>

> Does suppressing discussions suppress emotions or urges? We owe it to

> ourselves to decriminalise this taboo topic by fighting the socially

> conservative views that forbid healthy sexual expression and,

> therein, prohibit sexual health and safety. By regarding sex as

> dangerous, we flirt with danger itself. Demystify it and it might

> lose some of it appeal!

>

> Our attitudes towards this subject are ultimately killing us! We can

> import all the condoms in the world but of what use are they if they

> have no recipients or users? Consider this fact - though condom use

> is clearly recognised as one of the most important means of

> preventing the spread of HIV/Aids, only about 25 per cent of females

> and 42 per cent of men in Kenya use condoms with non-cohabiting

> partners!

>

> Is this because " the sweet is best without its wrapper, " because our

> cultures bring shame to the acquisition of condoms or because certain

> religious bodies prohibit their use? Whatever the case, good

> decisions are based on self-respect and education - a view, in this

> case, that advocates the voluntary modification of behaviour.

>

> We all understand sex, we just pretend not to! I'll side with Salt N

> Pepa on this one - we need to engage in healthy dialogue on the

> issue, accept its naturalness, appreciate its value and respect its

> harms. We must talk about it! Yes, " Let's talk about all the good

> things and the bad things that may be - "

>

> Ms Mwinzi is an assistant vice-president with the New York-based

> Nomura Corporate Research and Asset Management Inc.

> --- End forwarded message ---

>

>

>

>

> http://www./group/

> http://www./group/aids-africa (a group made up of Africans

worldwide)

> Join Digital Africa- an information technology group that discusses IT in

Africa at http://www./group/digafrica

>

[Guest guest]

How do we address this issue? It is so important to discuss. On the one hand

- it is disturbing to encourage a view of sex as equated with death ...but

the truth is, continuing to practice sex the way we are --- actually does .

This is the reality. There is now a very thin line dividing the most

beautiful and important human act that leads to our very continuation on

this planet ...and an act that can lead us straight to our graves.

Perhaps the important thing to re-asses how we treat it ....how we view it.

America has undergone a sexual revolution, per se over the past 20 years. As

a result we have watched the pendulum swing way ....wayyyy too far to one

side.We have an image of being loose ....sexy...there is no need for love

and respect in a sexual relationship. Wanting love and committment is now

viewed as uptight and old fashioned. And yet --- as a young woman in America

- I constantly hear my female friend complain and yearn for more in a

relationship. We are in the midst of trying to find a balance between sexual

oppression and downright promiscuity. I believe that this search is

imperitive to our evolution.

In Africa, however - it is a whole different story. The need for a

revolution changing the way we think about sex is at the forefront. Yet we

must tread so lightly - there are the delicacies of culture that must be

considered. And in a land where so much has been stolen -- how do we change

the perception about something as essential as procreation ...? yet our

people are dying.

My husband and I are planning a trip this summer to Kenya to make a

documentary about a Kenyan womens' grassroot organisation that is

innovatively dealing with AIDS in their communities. This issue of sexuality

is one that I personally seek to understand more ... we welcome your insight

in preparation.

Virtue

Brooklyn, NY

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