Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 In a message dated 3/14/2001 12:52:00 AM Central Standard Time, JB66111 writes: > > > > > As far as I know there is no LAW to prevent a child from taking his > Bible to school and reading it, as long as he is not forcing it on anyone > else. Also there is no LAW that prevents a teacher from bowing her head > and saying a silent prayer over her lunch. I'm sure there are nuts in some > schools who would go off the deep end about it but it is not a correct > interpretation of the Constitution. Hi Jessie, the point I was asking granny to clarify was her blanket statement that the only reason a Bible should be in school if for a class on religion. Or that's the way I read it. Hey i'm not a great writer so sometimes I misunderstand, so need it clarified. LOL I will leave off my discussion on how our so called 'leaders' in both parties are making end runs around out Constitution. I save that for political discussion boards. LOL It can be interesting. Not to mention much more informative then any high school history class I ever attended. And the creditable ones back up their opiniions with hard data. :-) Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 In a message dated 3/14/01 5:26:59 AM Central Standard Time, wildwards@... writes: << I watched the movie " The Cider House Rules " this weekend. Do we have orphanages any longer, or is everyone processed thru social services to foster care in the community. I know we have residential facilities for children with disabilities that are given up by their parents, we have two in our area. And I know young adults with disabilities that live in nursing homes, they have nowhere else. But for children without disabilities, are there still warehouse type facilities in our country? Cheryl in VA >> Cheryl, There are still children in state hospitals. In our state they are only there until treatment is complete but, the problem is then that if their parents don't feel they can handle them they stay there until a foster placement is found or a group home. Those are few and far between. There are kids in residential care. Some are great facilities and some are like warehouses. In Wisconsin there is a facility that has several children in each large bedroom, no closet for their clothes. They offer no therapies (OT,PT, or Speech). Staff are overworked and undertrained (in my opinion, no I haven't worked there). They take some of the most severe kids in the state but I don't think they do much more than house them. Oh yeah, they have school on the grounds- I wasn't too impressed with that either. This facility is the exception rather than the rule in our state. Unfortunately I have heard of states where kids with developmental disabilities are placed in nursing homes for lack of appropriate placement. So, Yes, it is a huge issue still.... Karyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 In a message dated 3/14/01 9:19:15 AM Central Standard Time, KVanRyzin@... writes: > And I know young adults with disabilities that live in nursing > homes, they have nowhere else. But for children without disabilities, are > there still warehouse type facilities in our country? > Cheryl in VA HI Cheryl We have an orphanage in our city. I have visited it and from what I saw it's run pretty well. I did see a lot of older kids and school age children, not many babies at all. Kathy mom to Sara 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 A good message, Sara! I might point out that Jesus was a Jew and never left the Jewish faith. Neither did most of the early Christians. Christianity began as a Jewish cult. Would a lot of so-called Christian kids would be as compassionate as you. Don't ever change. That teacher was a jerk. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html Re: Makes you think...... > Just my two cents... This is a good point. I grew up in a mostly Baptist > town in Western NY, my family is the only Jewish (the only non-Christian > family that we knew of) in our town. I went to a High School of 2,500 > students. This is no small Farm Village! My parents moved there because my > father's University where he teaches is only a 45 minute drive from our > home and my mother's Elementary school where she teaches is just 1 hour > away, so it was sort of in the middle. Had we lived closer, the homes would > have been too expensive for them at the time to buy. In 1996, when I was a > Sophomore in High School a student " club " called " Christian Crusade " pushed > for something call " Prayer at the Pole. " The school board approved it and > every morning during " homeroom " a bunch of students would go out to the > flag pole and pray. Being a religious (Jewish) person, I wouldn't have > minded to join them, only their prayers, lead by a Christian preacher were > all directed to Jesus Christ and spoke of helping the poor souls who did > not follow Jesus to return to Him, and I felt as if I didn't belong there > and I certainly was not invited. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying nor > was I ever saying that Jesus was a bad person (on the contrary I'm sure), > but he is not my G-d to be prayed to and THEY made that clear. So, I stayed > in my homeroom. And my school filled with posters that said " Make > Friends... See you at the pole! " [snip] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 It does, Maura. We have more homeless children than ever in this country thanks to welfare " reforms. " gem --- " Force is not a remedy. " -- Bright mailto:bspyle@... http://www.bspyle.com http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html Re: Makes you think...... > > > > Some countries don't have their kids in schools, they are on the streets > > robbing and trying to survive. > > Cheryl in VA > > Name one industrialized nation, like the USA, where this is true, Cheryl. > > granny > --- > " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must > in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman > http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 In a message dated 3/14/01 6:26:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, wildwards@... writes: > Do we have orphanages any longer, or... ...But for children without disabilities, are > there still warehouse type facilities in our country? We have one in our area, but they don't call it an orphanage. nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 Granny (and everyone else who replied privately, I am overwhelmed with the nice comments and hope I can thank you all individually), Thanks for the compliments!! I didn't mean to sound like some Crusader or even to make this place my therapy session (LOL)... I just thought it was appropriate true life story. ) " Prayer at the Pole " no longer exsists at my school... someone told me because the flag pole was too close to the busy street or something like that (some way silly insurance related reason)! But, Mrs Haber is still at the school! I went back and visited for old-time sake this year... man am I glad to be outta there!! ) Thanks again.... sorry this is going to the entire list, but I have 5 classes today... I only have a few minutes to check my email!! If I don't do it today, it will never get done!! Love, Sara --On Wednesday, March 14, 2001, 4:50 AM -0600 " B. S. Pyle " <bspyle@...> wrote: > A good message, Sara! I might point out that Jesus was a Jew and never > left the Jewish faith. Neither did most of the early Christians. > Christianity began as a Jewish cult. Would a lot of so-called Christian > kids would be as compassionate as you. Don't ever change. That teacher > was a jerk. > > granny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2001 Report Share Posted March 14, 2001 In a message dated 3/14/01 5:26:56 AM Central Standard Time, wildwards@... writes: > I watched the movie " The Cider House Rules " this weekend. Do we have > orphanages any longer, or is everyone processed thru social services to > foster care in the community. I know we have residential facilities for > children with disabilities that are given up by their parents, we have two > in > our area. And I know young adults with disabilities that live in nursing > homes, they have nowhere else. But for children without disabilities, are > there still warehouse type facilities in our country? > Cheryl in VA > > As far as I know there are none in our area. The great grandchildren of a > friend of mine were given up by their mother some time ago, or as my friend > said, She gave them to the welfare. They were in foster homes until they > were adopted. Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 In a message dated 3/15/2001 7:04:32 AM Central Standard Time, bspyle@... writes: > Yes. So? England still has strict gun control and continues to have far > fewer problems than the US. > > granny > Oh so rising violent crime rates aren't alarming. To each his own I guess. :-) Despite all the sensationalism in our media our crime rates have been falling over the past few years...even in states where lawabiding citizens can get conceal carry permits...much to the dismay of those who predicted widespeard slaughter on our streets if law abiding people didn't have to prove their innocense first before getting such a permit. From what I've read, most European countries have never had big problems with violent activity in the first place, probably partly because they really don't have the vast racial & ethnic diversity that we do. They also have pretty strict emigration policies, tho they may have changed that, which limits the diversity that they actually have to deal with, most people in their countries can trace their anscestry back in that country for centuries the customs have essensicially evolved in the people as a whole rather then having to absorb and assimilate a new culture every decade or two. Also stopping the infernal war on drugs and tossing violent offenders, strickly enforcing gun laws already on the books would do more to decrease violent crime.. Until the addicts actually break a law violating another citizens rights why bother them, scarey, yeah especially to x addicts who know the power of crack or cocaine or whatever the drug of choice was (hey I do know the power of nicotine so I'm aware of the fears they're having)....but until they possibly violate someone elses rights the only one theyr'e rreally hurting are themselves. You'll notice I differ alot on the issue from probably 99% of all elected officials....and probably the majority of the voting public. Oh well. I'm quite happy that my ancesters decided to leave Europe (nothing wrong with Europe but I'm used to here, lol) and our Founding Fathers had such insite into human nature. To paraphrase Ben lin.......They who would give up liberty for safetly deserve niether liberty or safety. (in other words giving up your 2nd amendment rights for saftey then when you lose more well you no longer deserve those either) And another one when they finished signing the Constitution said something like, we've given them a consitutional goverment now it's up to them to keep it. I cringe everytime I hear someone say we're a demacracy and that includes every misinformed person in DC. We are a Constitutional Republic. I wonder if the majority would have ruled for a Civil Rights Act or even ADA if it was left up to the people in that time and place? Remember the majority rules in a demacracy. Constitutional history is really interesting and plays a hugh role in how I access things. With school shootings I really think we need to have a dispastionate 3rd party look into the back grounds of these kids and find out if there is one tiny itty bitty thread that could tie them together cause unlike the school shootings in the 80's which involved drug/gang/turf related stuff these seem to be unlinked. (there have always been teasing and cliques and all that other stuff , why are these kids cracking what needs to be done to shore them up for the turbluant teen years) And I'd like them to find the problems quickly because one of these times some kid is going to successfully plant a bombs that actually go off and possibly do damage that makes these school shootings look small. And that scares me a hell of alot more then the guns ever will. It's the person not the tool. Joy :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 In a message dated 3/15/2001 7:48:45 AM Central Standard Time, bspyle@... writes: > When you said something about the Bible being read in school, I thought you > meant as part of a classroom activity. Of course there's no reason for a > student to not be allowed to read the Bible on his own at school as long as > it doesn't interfere with his studies. > > I was bacially pulling your leg granny. LOL I was aware that was what you meant. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 Re: Makes you think...... > Granny you want to correct the second paragraph here? If you refuse to let a > child read the Bible in school to himself/herself you aren't you in effect > going against the SC's ruling? If the child makes the Bible his reading > chioce what is it to you? > > If you believe it's not right to read a Bible in school by choice then what > makes you think that the schools haven't gone off the deep end regarding > prayer. There are many areas where I do believ ethat shool administrations > are completely losing their marbles, I mean don't you concider it an > infringement for the school to fire or reprimand a teacher for bowing her > head and praying silently before eating her lunch? this has happened. > > Joy. I keep hearing these scary stories, but so far, they just seem to be rumors rather than fact. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 Re: Makes you think...... > In a message dated 3/13/2001 8:04:26 AM Central Standard Time, > bspyle@... writes: > > > > We're the only one without very strict gun control. > > > > granny > > > > So? Did you hear England is arming the bobbies in some cities because the > gangs have guns and the people need someone to try to protect them? > > Joy Yes. So? England still has strict gun control and continues to have far fewer problems than the US. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 Re: Makes you think...... > >Dear Concerned Student, > >I am not allowed in schools. > >Sincerely, > >God > > Simply not true. God is allowed anywhere you want to carry him. What's not > allowed is mandated, imposed God-of-whose-religion, to allow for the variety > of religious beliefs in our country. > > CK, I'm with you, CK. If G*d is omnipotent, then how do puny humans go about keeping him away from anywhere? granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html > Mom to Ian (2/89), > (9/90), > and Rose (6/94) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 The Supreme Court has NOT ruled that individuals have the right to bear arms, Elaine. It has, however, let stand a lower court ruling that decreed only a government sponsored militia ... such as the National Guard ... has the right to bear arms. That's how the second amendment reads and that's how it stands. The US has no tradition for individuals bearing arms. Quite the contrary. There was a time when Jews, Catholics, ex-slaves and others were not allowed to own guns. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html RE: Makes you think...... > > > > Tena, > > > > when I read this message I really was anoid. I thought I was in a group > with > > some common sense. I't doesn't bother me when people spray out there > > believes everywhere they go and use it everywhere they see fit, but this > > draws the line. > > > > Maybe you should start with a fight to ban guns in your country. The wild > > west is long gone in case you didn't notice. > > Why is it that in countries like mine, shooting incidents never occur. Or > > even vicious attacks for that matter. The violence in our schools is > > minimal. > > > > Why is it that in this open country the rate of teen age pregnance is > almost > > zero. Maybe because we are so OPEN about it. Maybe because we teach our > boys > > what responsibility is. > > > > Why is it that there are still people who think that to avoid a child from > > hitting eachother we hit him ourselves. We are the thinking adults. > Teaching > > that violence is wrong with the use of violence. A bit strange don't you > > think. Do you hit your friends or neighbours to when they disbehave? Or do > > you just shoot them? > > Doen't matter when sometimes a parent hits somewhat to hard. It's in the > > book. > > > > The bible is in for many interpretations, unhappily enough people > > interpretate in in the way it fits their own WAY best. > > And I live in a liberal country, where the ground rule is RESPECT. > > > > Lets get one thing very clear, WE are the ones that raise our children, > not > > the media, not the schools, WE. I try to give my children the right > values. > > And thats to respect. And to love. > > > > So respect those who don't think like you. That bans out the hatred. It's > > letters like this that make people hate each other. And I don't think > > religion was invented as a tool of hate. So stop using it in that way! > These > > ways of thinking start the bombings of abortion clinics. > > Start the bashing of gays. > > > > And stop this nonsense, it doesn't show much respect to the victims and > > their families. > > > > Rob > > father of Merel and Summer DS > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 When you said something about the Bible being read in school, I thought you meant as part of a classroom activity. Of course there's no reason for a student to not be allowed to read the Bible on his own at school as long as it doesn't interfere with his studies. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html Re: Makes you think...... > In a message dated 3/14/2001 12:52:00 AM Central Standard Time, JB66111 > writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know there is no LAW to prevent a child from taking his > > Bible to school and reading it, as long as he is not forcing it on anyone > > else. Also there is no LAW that prevents a teacher from bowing her head > > and saying a silent prayer over her lunch. I'm sure there are nuts in some > > schools who would go off the deep end about it but it is not a correct > > interpretation of the Constitution. > > Hi Jessie, > the point I was asking granny to clarify was her blanket statement that the > only reason a Bible should be in school if for a class on religion. Or > that's the way I read it. Hey i'm not a great writer so sometimes I > misunderstand, so need it clarified. LOL > > I will leave off my discussion on how our so called 'leaders' in both parties > are making end runs around out Constitution. I save that for political > discussion boards. LOL It can be interesting. Not to mention much more > informative then any high school history class I ever attended. And the > creditable ones back up their opiniions with hard data. :-) > > Joy > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 we have always had armed police - it's just that we never actually see them, except at the airports because of terrorism. We do not have much gun crime because we do not carry or own guns as a general rule,but of course, if you really, really want something it is always possible to obtain it. Normally it would be smuggled in from a country that does not have the same gun control as we do. I have never heard of a child shooting others here. That is not to say it hasn't happened, just that I have never heard of a child killing someone with a gun. We do not have either a gun culture or gun mentality here. For myself, I would never have a gun in the house because I know I could never use it under any circumstances. I would have to think about my actions and there subsequent results before pulling the trigger - in which time I would probably be dead anyway. I know many of you would disagree with me - but in the USA you are brought up with guins around, over here we are not. Allyson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 In a message dated 3/15/01 7:09:15 PM Central Standard Time, Draquelle@... writes: > For myself, I would never have a gun in the house because I know I could > never use it under any circumstances. I would have to think about my > actions > and there subsequent results before pulling the trigger - in which time I > would probably be dead anyway. I know many of you would disagree with me - > but in the USA you are brought up with guins around, over here we are not. > > We do not all have guns around, Allyson. And I wouldn't have one either. > For the same reasons as you. Also I wouldn't ever want to be in > the position of having to decide whether to use one. Many people feel the > same way. I have one neighbor who has a gun mentality, don't know of any > others, but don't know all my neighbors. They just are not as prevalent > here as it probably looks like from outside the country, and from stories > on the news, etc. They are way too common though. It used to be that 2 > school kids would go out and fight it out with fists, now it seems at > Jessie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 It's not completely right, Joy It's true that we don't have a long history of different races but since we recruted cheap workforce in the 60's and we had a big stream of people from the former colonies, there are a lot of different races and cultures here. Some have 3rd generation decendants now. So if you walk in Amsterdam or any big city in Europe, you'll see a great diversity of races and cultures living together. Drugs is a different story here. We are the odd one out in that subject. Soft drug is not a priority here. In every town there are a limited amount of controlled shops (coffeeshops) who sell soft drugs to adults (age 18+). Hard drugs are a different story, the police don't waste their time with the users, they focus on the dealers. And like you I am happy in my own country. Wouldn't wanna trade places with you. Keep up the interesting mails Rob from the place where the Pilgrim Fathers lived and left on the Mayflower for the new world. Leiden, the Netherlands > In a message dated 3/15/2001 7:04:32 AM Central Standard Time, > bspyle@b... writes: > > > > Yes. So? England still has strict gun control and continues to have far > > fewer problems than the US. > > > > granny > > > > Oh so rising violent crime rates aren't alarming. To each his own I guess. > :-) > > Despite all the sensationalism in our media our crime rates have been falling > over the past few years...even in states where lawabiding citizens can get > conceal carry permits...much to the dismay of those who predicted widespeard > slaughter on our streets if law abiding people didn't have to prove their > innocense first before getting such a permit. > > From what I've read, most European countries have never had big problems with > violent activity in the first place, probably partly because they really > don't have the vast racial & ethnic diversity that we do. They also have > pretty strict emigration policies, tho they may have changed that, which > limits the diversity that they actually have to deal with, most people in > their countries can trace their anscestry back in that country for centuries > the customs have essensicially evolved in the people as a whole rather then > having to absorb and assimilate a new culture every decade or two. > > Also stopping the infernal war on drugs and tossing violent offenders, > strickly enforcing gun laws already on the books would do more to decrease > violent crime.. Until the addicts actually break a law violating another > citizens rights why bother them, scarey, yeah especially to x addicts who > know the power of crack or cocaine or whatever the drug of choice was (hey I > do know the power of nicotine so I'm aware of the fears they're > having)....but until they possibly violate someone elses rights the only one > theyr'e rreally hurting are themselves. You'll notice I differ alot on the > issue from probably 99% of all elected officials....and probably the majority > of the voting public. Oh well. > > > I'm quite happy that my ancesters decided to leave Europe (nothing wrong with > Europe but I'm used to here, lol) and our Founding Fathers had such insite > into human nature. To paraphrase Ben lin.......They who would give up > liberty for safetly deserve niether liberty or safety. (in other words > giving up your 2nd amendment rights for saftey then when you lose more well > you no longer deserve those either) And another one when they finished > signing the Constitution said something like, we've given them a > consitutional goverment now it's up to them to keep it. I cringe everytime > I hear someone say we're a demacracy and that includes every misinformed > person in DC. We are a Constitutional Republic. I wonder if the majority > would have ruled for a Civil Rights Act or even ADA if it was left up to the > people in that time and place? Remember the majority rules in a demacracy. > > Constitutional history is really interesting and plays a hugh role in how I > access things. With school shootings I really think we need to have a > dispastionate 3rd party look into the back grounds of these kids and find out > if there is one tiny itty bitty thread that could tie them together cause > unlike the school shootings in the 80's which involved drug/gang/turf related > stuff these seem to be unlinked. (there have always been teasing and cliques > and all that other stuff , why are these kids cracking what needs to be done > to shore them up for the turbluant teen years) And I'd like them to find the > problems quickly because one of these times some kid is going to successfully > plant a bombs that actually go off and possibly do damage that makes these > school shootings look small. And that scares me a hell of alot more then the > guns ever will. It's the person not the tool. > > Joy :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 My mistake. I thought I had read of a ruling brought about by an NRA suit. I detest guns and will never have one anywhere near me. So why have they never enforced this?? Elaine RE: Makes you think...... > > > > > > > Tena, > > > > > > when I read this message I really was anoid. I thought I was in a group > > with > > > some common sense. I't doesn't bother me when people spray out there > > > believes everywhere they go and use it everywhere they see fit, but this > > > draws the line. > > > > > > Maybe you should start with a fight to ban guns in your country. The > wild > > > west is long gone in case you didn't notice. > > > Why is it that in countries like mine, shooting incidents never occur. > Or > > > even vicious attacks for that matter. The violence in our schools is > > > minimal. > > > > > > Why is it that in this open country the rate of teen age pregnance is > > almost > > > zero. Maybe because we are so OPEN about it. Maybe because we teach our > > boys > > > what responsibility is. > > > > > > Why is it that there are still people who think that to avoid a child > from > > > hitting eachother we hit him ourselves. We are the thinking adults. > > Teaching > > > that violence is wrong with the use of violence. A bit strange don't > you > > > think. Do you hit your friends or neighbours to when they disbehave? Or > do > > > you just shoot them? > > > Doen't matter when sometimes a parent hits somewhat to hard. It's in the > > > book. > > > > > > The bible is in for many interpretations, unhappily enough people > > > interpretate in in the way it fits their own WAY best. > > > And I live in a liberal country, where the ground rule is RESPECT. > > > > > > Lets get one thing very clear, WE are the ones that raise our children, > > not > > > the media, not the schools, WE. I try to give my children the right > > values. > > > And thats to respect. And to love. > > > > > > So respect those who don't think like you. That bans out the hatred. > It's > > > letters like this that make people hate each other. And I don't think > > > religion was invented as a tool of hate. So stop using it in that way! > > These > > > ways of thinking start the bombings of abortion clinics. > > > Start the bashing of gays. > > > > > > And stop this nonsense, it doesn't show much respect to the victims and > > > their families. > > > > > > Rob > > > father of Merel and Summer DS > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2001 Report Share Posted March 15, 2001 We've seen them on television. I never saw a real gun until I was 21 and my two year old son came out to play with a REAL gun in his hand. I freaked out and called the police. It turned out that it was my brother-in-law's gun and it had been in the bureau drawer. He said in his defence after I had been screaming and yelling at him about his blankety-blank irresponsible behavior, " The safety was on. " I would do away with them if I could. Elaine Re: Makes you think...... > we have always had armed police - it's just that we never actually see them, > except at the airports because of terrorism. > > We do not have much gun crime because we do not carry or own guns as a > general rule,but of course, if you really, really want something it is always > possible to obtain it. Normally it would be smuggled in from a country that > does not have the same gun control as we do. > > I have never heard of a child shooting others here. That is not to say it > hasn't happened, just that I have never heard of a child killing someone with > a gun. > > We do not have either a gun culture or gun mentality here. > > For myself, I would never have a gun in the house because I know I could > never use it under any circumstances. I would have to think about my actions > and there subsequent results before pulling the trigger - in which time I > would probably be dead anyway. I know many of you would disagree with me - > but in the USA you are brought up with guins around, over here we are not. > > Allyson > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2001 Report Share Posted March 16, 2001 Totally agree about the alleged War on Drugs, Joy. What a farce. Our biggest drug problems lie in the abuse of legal drugs. The abuse of illegal drugs is a drop in the bucket by comparison. The crimes associated with illegal drugs (muggings, robberies, etc.) exist only because the drugs are illegal. If they were legal, the drop in the crime rate would be dramatic. The Second Amendment calls for a " WELL REGULATED militia. " I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with just anyone owning a weapon. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html Re: Makes you think...... > Also stopping the infernal war on drugs and tossing violent offenders, > strickly enforcing gun laws already on the books would do more to decrease > violent crime.. Until the addicts actually break a law violating another > citizens rights why bother them, scarey, yeah especially to x addicts who > know the power of crack or cocaine or whatever the drug of choice was (hey I > do know the power of nicotine so I'm aware of the fears they're > having)....but until they possibly violate someone elses rights the only one > theyr'e rreally hurting are themselves. You'll notice I differ alot on the > issue from probably 99% of all elected officials....and probably the majority > of the voting public. Oh well. > > > I'm quite happy that my ancesters decided to leave Europe (nothing wrong with > Europe but I'm used to here, lol) and our Founding Fathers had such insite > into human nature. To paraphrase Ben lin.......They who would give up > liberty for safetly deserve niether liberty or safety. (in other words > giving up your 2nd amendment rights for saftey then when you lose more well > you no longer deserve those either) And another one when they finished > signing the Constitution said something like, we've given them a > consitutional goverment now it's up to them to keep it. I cringe everytime > I hear someone say we're a demacracy and that includes every misinformed > person in DC. We are a Constitutional Republic. I wonder if the majority > would have ruled for a Civil Rights Act or even ADA if it was left up to the > people in that time and place? Remember the majority rules in a demacracy. > > Constitutional history is really interesting and plays a hugh role in how I > access things. With school shootings I really think we need to have a > dispastionate 3rd party look into the back grounds of these kids and find out > if there is one tiny itty bitty thread that could tie them together cause > unlike the school shootings in the 80's which involved drug/gang/turf related > stuff these seem to be unlinked. (there have always been teasing and cliques > and all that other stuff , why are these kids cracking what needs to be done > to shore them up for the turbluant teen years) And I'd like them to find the > problems quickly because one of these times some kid is going to successfully > plant a bombs that actually go off and possibly do damage that makes these > school shootings look small. And that scares me a hell of alot more then the > guns ever will. It's the person not the tool. > > Joy :-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2001 Report Share Posted March 16, 2001 The NRA has the big bucks to hire the high-powered lobbyists to bribe the lawmakers in various states and the US Congress, Elaine. I don't know why so many Americans are so frightened they feel they must own guns, elaborate security systems, etc. Can't imagine living in such fear. But they exist, and even though they are in the minority, they donate a lot of money for these lobbyists. Fortunately, they do not always prevail and the cooler heads among us are able to get legislation such as the Brady Bill passed. granny --- " Beautiful that war and all its deeds of carnage must in time be utterly lost. " -- Walt Whitman http://www.bspyle.com/granny.html RE: Makes you think...... > > > > > > > > > > Tena, > > > > > > > > when I read this message I really was anoid. I thought I was in a > group > > > with > > > > some common sense. I't doesn't bother me when people spray out there > > > > believes everywhere they go and use it everywhere they see fit, but > this > > > > draws the line. > > > > > > > > Maybe you should start with a fight to ban guns in your country. The > > wild > > > > west is long gone in case you didn't notice. > > > > Why is it that in countries like mine, shooting incidents never occur. > > Or > > > > even vicious attacks for that matter. The violence in our schools is > > > > minimal. > > > > > > > > Why is it that in this open country the rate of teen age pregnance is > > > almost > > > > zero. Maybe because we are so OPEN about it. Maybe because we teach > our > > > boys > > > > what responsibility is. > > > > > > > > Why is it that there are still people who think that to avoid a child > > from > > > > hitting eachother we hit him ourselves. We are the thinking adults. > > > Teaching > > > > that violence is wrong with the use of violence. A bit strange don't > > you > > > > think. Do you hit your friends or neighbours to when they disbehave? > Or > > do > > > > you just shoot them? > > > > Doen't matter when sometimes a parent hits somewhat to hard. It's in > the > > > > book. > > > > > > > > The bible is in for many interpretations, unhappily enough people > > > > interpretate in in the way it fits their own WAY best. > > > > And I live in a liberal country, where the ground rule is RESPECT. > > > > > > > > Lets get one thing very clear, WE are the ones that raise our > children, > > > not > > > > the media, not the schools, WE. I try to give my children the right > > > values. > > > > And thats to respect. And to love. > > > > > > > > So respect those who don't think like you. That bans out the hatred. > > It's > > > > letters like this that make people hate each other. And I don't think > > > > religion was invented as a tool of hate. So stop using it in that way! > > > These > > > > ways of thinking start the bombings of abortion clinics. > > > > Start the bashing of gays. > > > > > > > > And stop this nonsense, it doesn't show much respect to the victims > and > > > > their families. > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > father of Merel and Summer DS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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