Probiotics

[Guest guest]

FWIW, an herbalist who examined me recently said I really needed probiotics.

I wouldn't be surprised after all those ABX last year, though who knows,

maybe I needed them before. She said the easiest and cheapest way to get

massive amounts of beneficial bacteria was to drink kefir. Otherwise she was

recommending literally handfuls of acidophilus/etc. capsules.

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[Guest guest]

What percentage of us (Or URL to study find it)? Does the incidence increase

with duration (which is what Nicolson finds with Mycoplasma)?

----- Original Message -----

From: Skari, M

probiotics could push you further into a

Th2 state.

Stroptococcus thermophilus romotes Th2 cytokines (Humorally-mediated

immunity)

which many of us have too many of already.

[Guest guest]

--

You might be interested to know that the acidophilus I get from my MD has

250 billion per teaspoon, and the label recommends 1-2 tsp's 3 times a day,

whereas the pills I get from the health food store have 3 billion per

capsule. So, I don't think handfuls of the capsules are in any way out of

line.

The hi-dose liquid is called a-dophilus liquid, from The Torrance Co.,

Portage, MI 49002. I have no financial interest in it--just posting the info

from the label.

in North Carolina

...SNIP

>She said the easiest and cheapest way to get

> massive amounts of beneficial bacteria was to drink kefir.

> Otherwise she was

> recommending literally handfuls of acidophilus/etc. capsules.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

This is incredible! I thought I was doing good getting 12 billion throughout

the day. Is there a phone number or web site on the bottle?

Also, can you tell us what strains are in this formula?

Thanks,

Marty Z.

[Guest guest]

,

What is kefir and where can one buy it? I'm on a 6 week course of high

powered antibiotic and I don't want yeast getting out of hand.

Theresa

From: " Scherffius " <cfids_ex@...>

" She said the easiest and cheapest way to get

massive amounts of beneficial bacteria was to drink kefir. Otherwise she was

recommending literally handfuls of acidophilus/etc. capsules. "

[Guest guest]

A

>,

>

> What is kefir and where can one buy it? I'm on a 6 week course of high

>powered antibiotic and I don't want yeast getting out of hand.

>

>Theresa

>

>

Hi,

It is cheese usually seen in the East. I have seen it in finer deli's

tho... Christie

[Guest guest]

According to info Konlee dug up, probiotics could push you further into a

Th2 state.

Stroptococcus thermophilus romotes Th2 cytokines (Humorally-mediated

immunity)

which many of us have too many of already.I have never seen commercially

available

yogurt, kefir, etc, that did NOT have S.thermophilis in it.

Lactobacillus Casei and L. Plantarum promote IL-12 and IFN-gamma (or CMI),

but I have

not seen them as a major component of any probiotic.

More details at: http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/report18.html

<http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/report18.html>

[Guest guest]

its true Kefir works really well for getting friendly bacteria in to your

gut; better than anything in my case. The main problem is that its hard to

find plain kefir; which is low in sugar. I usually just find flavored kefir

which have tons of sugar. What worked best for me was raw kefir 1 cup each

morning and evening; but they havent sold that for many months here in LA.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/00 3:34:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

onelist writes:

<< According to info Konlee dug up, probiotics could push you further into a

Th2 state. >>

Is this a good or bad thing? Sorry, been busy with the 'Pro' stuff.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Marty,

No, I'm sorry, there's no more info on the bottle--I'm sitting here getting

my myers IV and my nurse says she'll have to dig up the phone number, so

I'll post it if I get it--but it's kind of crazy in here today, so it could

be a few days til she gets back to me. She orders directly from the company.

Also, unfortunately, it only has lactobacillus acidophilus, so I also use

other supplements with a better variety of organisms.

in North Carolina

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Marty Zavala [mailto:martyz@...]

>

>

> ,

> This is incredible! I thought I was doing good getting 12 billion

> throughout

> the day. Is there a phone number or web site on the bottle?

>

> Also, can you tell us what strains are in this formula?

>

> Thanks,

> Marty Z.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

[Theresa] I just ordered the following:from the LEF web site:

" Life Flora " : #263, 120 capsules for $20.50 + S/H

Each capsule contains 2 billion organisms (in a freeze dried state at the

time of manufacture) consisting of :

Lactobacillus rhamnosus 55%

Lactobacillus acidophilus 5%

Bifidobacterium bifidum 10%

Bifidobacterium breve 10%

Bifidobacterium infantis 10%

Bifidobacterium longum 10%

Keep product refrigerated before and after opening.

SUGGESTED USE:

Take 1-4 capsules daily or if you want to load up on bifidobacteria, you may

want to take one bottle of Bifidobacteria capsules (six capsules daily) with

NUTRAFLORA in the beginning to quickly produce a healthy bacterial flora.

Each capsule contains two billion friendly bifidobacteria.

[Theresa] I'll let you know what happens (hopefully at least no runaway

yeastie beasties will take over while I'm on the antibiotic.

RE: Probiotics

>From: " Crane " <ccrane@...>

>

>Marty,

>No, I'm sorry, there's no more info on the bottle--I'm sitting here getting

>my myers IV and my nurse says she'll have to dig up the phone number, so

>I'll post it if I get it--but it's kind of crazy in here today, so it could

>be a few days til she gets back to me. She orders directly from the

company.

>

>Also, unfortunately, it only has lactobacillus acidophilus, so I also use

>other supplements with a better variety of organisms.

>

> in North Carolina

[Guest guest]

>From: MCamp10139@...

>

>In a message dated 2/1/00 3:34:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>onelist writes:

>

><< According to info Konlee dug up, probiotics could push you further into

a

> Th2 state. >>

>

>Is this a good or bad thing? Sorry, been busy with the 'Pro' stuff.

My understanding (someone correct me here as I am still learning - this can

get a little confusing)

Your TH1/TH2 state is a marker for the state of your disease. There are 2

types of immunity - humoral (TH2) or cell-mediated(TH1). We need both in

the proper balance. The cytokines (which are good chemicals) get out of

whack in the immune cascade and wreak havoc with our immunities (humoral and

cell-mediated). The goal is to get the cytokines back in balance therefore

restoring the right balance of humoral vs cell mediated immunity.

If you immune state is low TH1/high TH2 then certain probiotics would not be

helpful (s. thermophilus is in most yogurt) but the other probiotics are

helpful (l. acidophilus being the most common)

Here's a short excerpt from Mark Konlee's site:

Progressive Health News

A Consumer’s Guide to Immune Restoration.

A Summary of factors that induce Th1 or Th2 cytokines

Vol 2, No 3 March 1, 1999

Mark Konlee

This month’s issue of Progressive Health News is a Summary of factors that

induce Th1 and Th2 cytokines that is excerpted from Positive Health News,

Report No 18 that will be printed on March 15th and mailed out March 16th.

More details will be provided in the upcoming issue of Positive Health News

that you should receive within the next few days. Persons with HIV, HHV-6A,

CFIDS, Multiple allergies and MCS, GWS and cancer have a predominance of Th2

cytokines and a lack of Th1’s. The shift from Th2 to Th1 will restore the

ability of the immune system to eradicate intracellular infections and

increase natural immunity to cancer. Note to internet readers: Positive

Health News, No 18, should be online by March 15th.

DIETARY FACTORS THAT SUPPORT Th1 CYTOKINES

Omega 3 fatty acids (N3) found in cold water fish reduce IL-6, tumor

necrosis factor and support DTH. Oleic acid, found in olive oil (cold

pressed) and hazelnut oil, vitamin A and L-glutamine increases IgA and

improve mucosal integrity. The use of two heat-treated strains of

lactobacillus - L. Plantarum and L. Casei induces a strong IL-12 response

and increases IFN-gamma and strengthen the systemic immune response against

all intra-cellular infections and even cancers. The intestinal flora

Bifidobacterium longum also increases IgA and improves mucosal immunity.

Silica reduces excess IgG and this improves NK function and improves the

integrity of the skin and mucus membranes

[end of excerpt]

Also, the probiotic Bifidobacterium longum is the only strain that produces

acetic acid (basically vinegar) which keeps our intestines in the proper ph

and keeps organisms at bay - a good thing.

Marty Z.

[Guest guest]

I am a little confused by your post. Could you briefly outline your total

treatment program -- it sounds different from what the

average CFSer get. I have tried to follow your post but it would be nice to have

a complete run down.

thank so much

Steve

[Guest guest]

I doubt very much that large dosages of probiologics can harm you.

I was taking 3 of the Natrens Trenev trio a day plus somtimes 10 of the

Jarrowdophilus.

I can only afford to take the Jarrowdophilus now & take at least 10 a day

sometime more.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/8/00 3:34:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,

onelist writes:

<< If anyone takes large amounts of acidophilus; or probiotics; could you

briefly tell me how much you take? Small amounts dont help me so Im moving

to higher amounts; but i have no idea how much to take. Is it dangerous to

take too much? also, at the suggestion of the nutritionist I got an

anti-yeast/candida formula to take with it. I am naked and need advice.

Thanks.. >>

, put your clothes on and go get some liquid acidophilus. I got some

Nature's Life lactobacillus Acidoph for $8 or so and I can feel my GI tract

digesting my food shortly after I take it. If you are having constipation,

maybe

from the methadone, I would certainly give it a try. I got it at Whole Foods.

See the post I made recently on the same subject.

Mike

[Guest guest]

>From: green1585@...

>

>Does anyone know where you can get probiotics, bifa-15, or other Jarrow

>products?

>

I got a 3 day sample of Bifa 15 from the company itself Eden Foods -

1-800-248-0320 or www.edenfoods.com. It is 34.99 for 1 months supply. Each

dose comes in a special foil wrapped tube that you empty in your mouth.

Each tube contains 1 billion bifidobacterium longum plus FOS equalling 1.5

grams. This strain is the strain that produces acetic acid (vinegar) so is

very helpful in getting the ph of the digestive system back in order plus

parasites and viruses don't like the acidic ph. I think this is kind of

expensive. I was taking capusule probiotics that had 1 billion of each of 3

strains (one of the strains was the above) for 16.99 for 100 capsules.

You can get probiotics at any health food store or NEEDS. I found the

liquid lactobacillus at the grocery store (in the speciality organic food

section). I found the taste to be slightly tart but when I mix it with OJ or

my protein shake, I don't even notice it. It was a great price $5.69 per 16

oz bottle

Yogurt is not recommended due to the sugar content (feeds yeast and other

bugs) and most commercial yogurt contains s. thermophilus which promotes TH2

(which most of us are already high in). Also the quantities of the

probiotics in yogurt is usually not enough to repopulate the digestive

system.

Marty Z.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/9/00 3:34:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,

onelist writes:

<< I found the taste to be slightly tart but when I mix it with OJ or

my protein shake, I don't even notice it. >>

I believe you are supposed to take acidophalus/probiotics one hour or so

BEFORE meals. Therefore I would suggest mixing it with the OJ, then

having your protein shake in an hour or so. I have been having very good

results with the liqiud acidophalus that I got. I was using laxatives 3 times

a week until I started using just one dose per day of the liquid stuff. I

sure

hope the positive effects don't disappear eventually like the benefits of some

other supplements do.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Have you every tried a super high fiber cereal. I think the one I use is called

uncle sams -- no need for laxative any more.

steve

[Guest guest]

>From: MCamp10139@...

>

>I believe you are supposed to take acidophalus/probiotics one hour or so

>BEFORE meals.

I have directions for 1/2 hr before meals and another bottle reads 1/2 hr

after meals. I never considered a protein shake a meal but I guess they

mean empty stomach. I will switch this around, thanks!

>I sure hope the positive effects don't disappear eventually like the

benefits of some

>other supplements do.

Mark Konlee describes this phenomenon:

http://www.execpc.com/~keephope/v1997.html (near the bottom - here is a

short little bit)

Voice Mail Message - May 1, 1997 ANTI-VIRAL THERAPIES - WHY THEY FAIL

PROTOCOL FAILURES MAY BE CAUSED BY IMPAIRED LIVER FUNCTION AND ANTIBODIES

DIRECTED AGAINST THE MEDICATIONS

Today is May 1st. This month’s subject is immune system resistance to

medications (drugs or herbs etc). Many protocol failures may have been

erroneously blamed on viral resistance. We have heard many reports from

persons with these chronic conditions. Invariably they say that a new

protocol (drug or herb) works for a while and then quits working. What

causes the medicine or drug to fail?

The answer may be found in impaired liver function and immune system

resistance.

Marty Z.

[Guest guest]

I know I'm WAY behind on the list, so I apologize if this has been answered

already. Jarrow Formula's Jarro-Dophilus has both of these strains of

lactobacillus. No financial interest in the company here, just a consumer.

Available at health food stores.

in North Carolina

***It's like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you get tired. You

quit when the gorilla gets tired.***

>

> Lactobacillus Casei and L. Plantarum promote IL-12 and IFN-gamma (or CMI),

> but I have

> not seen them as a major component of any probiotic.

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI ALL, i take 60-80 billion daily and suggest take at differnt times each

day if possible.

somish

[Guest guest]

They also sell a product called 'defense' that is for bringing up your

glutathione levels. Includes all the precursors in moderate amounts (so no

toxicity) and in the correct proportions. I haven't tried it, but if you

can't tolerate the whey or find whey too expensive it may be worth a try.

$25 for a 6 week supply.

Regards, .

Probiotics

> From: Cbuf1920@...

>

> I have been trying all sorts of acidopholus for my chronic systemic yeast

> for the last few years.

> I was taking 3 Natren's Trenev trio

> (extremely expensive) a day & then I tried 10 jarrodopholus a day. I

tried

> some other kinds also but none of them seemed to be much help.

> I think I have finally found one that works though.

> It is a new one out called Yeast Avenger

> by CFS Nutrition. I am only taking 3 a day & it is really working. For

the

> first time ever.

> I thought I would have to start taking some Nizerol or diflucan again But

> won't have to now.

> I know there are others on the list that are looking for some good

> probiotics also.

> They have a sale on now & you can order through their website. I find it

is

> worth the price as I use less than the Jarrow & It is much less expensive

> than the Natren & besides it works. I was wasting a lot of $$ on the other

> ones.

> The website is www.CFSN.com

> The toll free # is 1888 801-2376

> I ordered a lot & stocked up.

[Guest guest]

Hi -thanks for your post on the Jarrows probiotics. I dont know enough

yet to really understand the immunity issues well, but I am wondering if you

would share how you were diagnosed with severe leaky gut syndrome, what

treatments you have tried and how effective you think they have been. If

there are tests, do you have to keep being retested to see how you are doing

or can you tell by how your body reacts? Do you feel antibiotic treatments

has had anyd effect on the leaky gut syndrome?

[Guest guest]

Interesting information about probiotics at:

www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/candida/summary.html

BB

[Guest guest]

Hello,

My naturopath only recommends two products because she says they are the only

two that stay around to

colonize the intestinal area: one from Japan which is the very best but also

very expensive ($40)

& the other is a Jarrow Formulas product called Jarro-Dophilis, which is

enteric-coated & room

temperature stable ($13 for 60 capsules) and which contains eight species of

Probiotic bacteria.

Du Pre

Website: http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/isaiah40soaringeagle/index.html

" By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes