(no subject)

[Guest guest]

> we have had better luck with allhealth down chat by AOL we have

never

gotten

> throught before to this Down chat we are staying with

AllHealth

chats

> for Down Syndrome

The chat is not the same as the Mirc chat where tonight's chat

was to be held. We have not had a regularly scheduled chat for

Upsndowns until this coming Saturday (it's on the calendar now). The

Mirc chat sometimes has problems. I understand that 's chat

rooms do, too at times. AOL is great, unless you don't have AOL.

[Guest guest]

Uh, oh...not sure why I received this....I'm passing this along to the group

because I'm not sure where to get this - except to try your local health

food store.

>From: Chevy974@...

>lkeva@...

>Subject: (no subject)

>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:15:18 EDT

>

>sodium ascorbate i have lppked for this where do i find it. she is doing

>better to day i have her on some homeopathic remedies and the spasms have

>stoped now its a junck cough. please where to find it?

>Amy

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I never knew there was such a store/catalog. I buy Payton's clothes at

Kohl's, Wal-Mart, the Mall, etc. Is it that when they get older or

something, that they can't wear regular clothes? Tell me more.....

Cari - mother of DS daughter Payton (1 yr next week) - son Ray 12 - daughter

Abby 6

[Guest guest]

Jess (11) stayed in infant clothes until she was about 2 and then it was

regular sizes below age for a number of years. Last year or so, it's like

she is the right size for her age, but the sleeves and legs are too long and

the waist (but not rear) needs to be just a little more roomy. Noticing

that her back seems a little wider than the sizes really fit quite right

too, which is a problem for shirts and dresses of woven fabric.

I've been finding a size 10 1/2 that's working pretty well, tho' the legs

are still too long by a bit. Knit tops and dresses seem to work best right

now too.

Judi

Re: (no subject)

I never knew there was such a store/catalog. I buy Payton's clothes at

Kohl's, Wal-Mart, the Mall, etc. Is it that when they get older or

something, that they can't wear regular clothes? Tell me more.....

Cari - mother of DS daughter Payton (1 yr next week) - son Ray 12 -

daughter

Abby 6

[Guest guest]

I'm curious as well. What is the reason for special clothes??

ny 31/2 months ds

LDeStefano

Not all of the Angels are in Heaven, Sometimes they come in disguise.

http://myangels.sheeze.com

[Guest guest]

Fuzz -

Congratulations on your newest born. My daughter is almost a year old and up

until she was about 6 mos. I thought her body size was pretty " normal " .

Around 7 mos. I realized she has short little (chubby - but cute) legs, as

well as her arms. As your DS child grows, you may notice this also. So with

that, when you shop you will want to switch the pants on hangers with another

size! ha ha ha No, just kidding. As some people have mentioned - Old Navy

has great clothes: elastic waists - and in-style to boot. Land's End is also

a great place to shop, as I have been told.

Congrats again!

Cari - mother of 1 yr old DS daughter Payton -- Ray 12 --- Abby 6

[Guest guest]

Some kids with DS are shorter than others and they also may be a little

" rounder " . So when they get a little older, the clothes are too long and may

not fit around the waist. Also, some of the older kids have trouble with

zippers, snaps and buttons and after a certain size they stop making clothes

with elastic in the waist in the cool stuff like jeans. gotta look cool, ya

know!

[Guest guest]

I can't speak for all children with ds, but I know for my son his legs and

arms are short, but his middle is wide. So to get pants that fit him in the

waist, they are wayyyyyy too long. He wears a lot of nice sweat pants.

Also, buttons and snaps can be difficult, especially when you are trying to

encourage independence in the bathroom. So pants with pull on waists are

really helpful.

R.

Mom to (7, ds) and Grace (4)

----- Original Message -----

> I'm curious as well. What is the reason for special clothes??

>

> ny 31/2 months ds

> LDeStefano

[Guest guest]

My daughter, NonDS, was tall and skinny as a kid and that was a

problem too. In order to get legs long enough they were too big around and

had to be taken in. Dresses were fine, put pants and shorts were a real

problem. I guess nobody's perfect. I wouldn't have believed it but she grew

up to have a weight problem. Jessie

[Guest guest]

My daughter, Payton, will be a year old next week and she is just now 16lbs.

5oz. and 25 1/4 inches long. She's a little thing but love her to

pieces!!!!!!

Cari - mother of daughter Payton DS

[Guest guest]

It seems that up until a year and a half ago Lucas was small, real small for

his age(wore 18 month pants to Head Start) Now he seems to be more on

target, but has a belly and shorter legs, and is still shorter than other 5

year olds!

Renae

Re: (no subject)

>

>

> > I can't speak for all children with ds, but I know for my son his legs

and

> > arms are short, but his middle is wide. So to get pants that fit him in

> the

> > waist, they are wayyyyyy too long. He wears a lot of nice sweat pants.

> > Also, buttons and snaps can be difficult, especially when you are trying

> to

> > encourage independence in the bathroom. So pants with pull on waists

are

> > really helpful.

> >

> > R.

> > Mom to (7, ds) and Grace (4)

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > > I'm curious as well. What is the reason for special clothes??

> > >

> > > ny 31/2 months ds

> > > LDeStefano

> >

> >

> >

> > Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

> messages to go to the sender of the message.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Karrie is 5, weighs 36 lbs. and wears 3 toddlers sized clothes. She is

just now able to wear toddler sized shoes, because her feet are so tiny.

But she is almost 40 " tall. She has long, thin legs and arms. She looks

like she might be about 3 years old instead of 5. Since I'm not supposed

to be lifting more than 5 lbs. because of recent surgery, I'm thankful

she's so small!

Sue mom to Kate 11 (who is 5'3 " , 110 lbs.) and Karrie 5 w/ds

[Guest guest]

Tim has short arms and legs too and a very long body. When he sits on the

floor next to his peers he is only an inch or two shorter but standing is a

good head shorter than most. But he also has a very skinny bum and waist.

3-4 year old two piece outfits are a nightmare, the shorts fall off him and

come down to his knees, the sleeves come to his elbows but the body fits

well!! Most of his shorts are 2-3 year old size becoz the wiast fits

better. He has got better proportioned as he has got older tho I guess he

will always be a bit disproprotionate.

sue wong

Re: (no subject)

> I can't speak for all children with ds, but I know for my son his legs and

> arms are short, but his middle is wide. So to get pants that fit him in

the

> waist, they are wayyyyyy too long. He wears a lot of nice sweat pants.

> Also, buttons and snaps can be difficult, especially when you are trying

to

> encourage independence in the bathroom. So pants with pull on waists are

> really helpful.

>

> R.

> Mom to (7, ds) and Grace (4)

> ----- Original Message -----

> > I'm curious as well. What is the reason for special clothes??

> >

> > ny 31/2 months ds

> > LDeStefano

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Adelena is going to be 9 years old next month and is 58 pounds - 3'10 "

tall....clothes are hard for her too. We are in Florida so, shorts are easy

and pretty much a year round , but for the occassional cold day-the long

pants are always TOO long. I try for the elastic bottoms, too.

Maura

(single mom to lese 11yrs6mo & Adelena 8yrs11mo w/ds)

----Original Message Follows----

From: cvanl67@...

renaeb@..., ,

sbntwong@...

Subject: Re: (no subject)

Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 16:38:10 EDT

My daughter, Payton, will be a year old next week and she is just now 16lbs.

5oz. and 25 1/4 inches long. She's a little thing but love her to

pieces!!!!!!

Cari - mother of daughter Payton DS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/7/2004 10:49:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Tangerineburton@... writes:

Now I feel how well I am

without them but am a little confused as to why I got ill before and what the

cd4

really shows and what the viral load is. I could do with some words of wisdom

and support for this no medicine path! I eat very well, take great

supplements, use Chinese herbs for anything that arises , meditate, do yoga

and walk!

That is why I felt great! Before I got ill I did have a couple of years of

not

looking after myself well, smoking and drinking and being very under weight

(98

pounds and less

It sounds to me like you answered your own question as to why you got sick.

What the CD4 shows, or the fact that you are allowing the mediquack vampires

to take for blood for these tests, is that you've been mind fucked.

Everything in science leads to the conclusion that t-cells are not a valid

surrogate

marker for health or disease progression. Monitoring them is a form of

terrorism. Doctors that continue to waste their patients blood on this marker

that

can only serve to scare you, should be tried as terrorists. Healthier people

will generally have lower counts than sick people. Where did this confusion

come from?

The original AIDS victims, about 10,000 (a little more than 1% of the total

number of victims in this country) very sick gay men in their 30's and 40's,

had few or no t-cells because their thymus glands had been destroyed by years of

drug abuse -- especially the original pharmaceutical grade " poppers "

manufactured by Burroughs-Wellcome, those wonderful folks who gave us AZT.

Autopsies

showed this. There was no reason to suspect that anything was killing

t-cells, but science thug and mobster, Gallo, saw this as an opportunity

to

promote a retrovirus he had previously tried to blame for causing leukemia. He

has since admitted that the virus does not kill t-cells, but, like so many

other truths, this is being ignored by the AIDS industry.

The so-called viral load is, to quote the man who won the Nobel Prize for the

technology, a " load of crap. " HIV-negative people have been shown to have

" viral loads. " If they don't HIV, what the hell is the test counting? If you

want to be " undetectable, " stay away from medical doctors. They are at least

20 times more dangerous than any virus.

As to a healthy diet, in my experience based on hundreds (or thousands) of

people over the past 20 years, most people have no idea of what a healthy diet

is. If you have a truly healthy diet, you shouldn't be needing supplements or

chinese herbs.

If HIV exists, I've had it for at least 25 years, and quite possibly 50

years. I used to have serious respiratory problems. I don't know how you can

distinguish between a cold, the flu and pneumonia without the help of a medical

expert, but what I used to suffer from twice a year was quite debillitating.

Interestingly enough, I haven't suffered from these since 1980 when I got turned

on to a very simple exercise to boost the immune system. (For more on this

go to sobehealthy.com.)

From my observations, giving up the meds isn't enough. Unless you get over

the fear and belief in the virus and give up the AIDS doctors, you are doomed

to failure.

Hope this is helpful to you.

Ed

[Guest guest]

Hello Ed,

I have no problem with the bulk of this as you may recall I am healthy

so called Poz and not on any medication at all. I have for years used

alternative and supplimentive treatment and have jumped on a jumperoo

off and on for almost twenty years. What I don't understand in your

explanation is the blame on recreational drugs, especially poppers.

Admittedly they are not the best thing for the immune system, but how

do you explain the many who used these substances and never got the

conditions we are calling AIDS as well as those who used these

substances and never got AIDS. Do you not find it interesting that huge

numbers of gay men fell from this disease right after the HEPATITIS-B

vaccinations were given, mostly in New York and San Francisco. Also, I

have noticed that in the beginning of the disease, it was so lethal

these men died in a short period of time where as now that the so called

virus has passed through the immune systems it is no longer as lethal

and people don't die as rapidly. As a matter of fact, the death rate

from AIDS was dropping off rapidly starting about two years before the

antivirals hit the market.

Have you looked into the United States' Special Virus Programs? If we

live in a country that injected Syphilis into black men and never gave

then penicillin, what makes you think they wouldn't inject a bunch of

faggots with a virus and for that matter a bunch of black people living

in Africa on top of all those great resources...

There wasn't a virus to discover, because they already knew what they

had and it isn't really sexually transmitted.

How bout that??

Eliot

Re: (no subject)

In a message dated 6/7/2004 10:49:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Tangerineburton@... writes:

Now I feel how well I am

without them but am a little confused as to why I got ill before and

what the

cd4

really shows and what the viral load is. I could do with some words of

wisdom

and support for this no medicine path! I eat very well, take great

supplements, use Chinese herbs for anything that arises , meditate, do

yoga

and walk!

That is why I felt great! Before I got ill I did have a couple of years

of

not

looking after myself well, smoking and drinking and being very under

weight

(98

pounds and less

It sounds to me like you answered your own question as to why you got

sick.

What the CD4 shows, or the fact that you are allowing the mediquack

vampires

to take for blood for these tests, is that you've been mind fucked.

Everything in science leads to the conclusion that t-cells are not a

valid surrogate

marker for health or disease progression. Monitoring them is a form of

terrorism. Doctors that continue to waste their patients blood on this

marker that

can only serve to scare you, should be tried as terrorists. Healthier

people

will generally have lower counts than sick people. Where did this

confusion

come from?

The original AIDS victims, about 10,000 (a little more than 1% of the

total

number of victims in this country) very sick gay men in their 30's and

40's,

had few or no t-cells because their thymus glands had been destroyed by

years of

drug abuse -- especially the original pharmaceutical grade " poppers "

manufactured by Burroughs-Wellcome, those wonderful folks who gave us

AZT. Autopsies

showed this. There was no reason to suspect that anything was killing

t-cells, but science thug and mobster, Gallo, saw this as an

opportunity to

promote a retrovirus he had previously tried to blame for causing

leukemia. He

has since admitted that the virus does not kill t-cells, but, like so

many

other truths, this is being ignored by the AIDS industry.

The so-called viral load is, to quote the man who won the Nobel Prize

for the

technology, a " load of crap. " HIV-negative people have been shown to

have

" viral loads. " If they don't HIV, what the hell is the test counting?

If you

want to be " undetectable, " stay away from medical doctors. They are at

least

20 times more dangerous than any virus.

As to a healthy diet, in my experience based on hundreds (or thousands)

of

people over the past 20 years, most people have no idea of what a

healthy diet

is. If you have a truly healthy diet, you shouldn't be needing

supplements or

chinese herbs.

If HIV exists, I've had it for at least 25 years, and quite possibly 50

years. I used to have serious respiratory problems. I don't know how

you can

distinguish between a cold, the flu and pneumonia without the help of a

medical

expert, but what I used to suffer from twice a year was quite

debillitating.

Interestingly enough, I haven't suffered from these since 1980 when I

got turned

on to a very simple exercise to boost the immune system. (For more on

this

go to sobehealthy.com.)

From my observations, giving up the meds isn't enough. Unless you get

over

the fear and belief in the virus and give up the AIDS doctors, you are

doomed

to failure.

Hope this is helpful to you.

Ed

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/8/2004 4:16:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Tangerineburton@... writes:

but do you know of any natural way to

help my body rebalance from this recent toxic chemical exposure (sorry

body!).

For many people, the exercise alone makes all the difference in the world. I

know it did for me. It was more than 15 years before I made major changes to

my diet, and I still cheat. I believe if you eat enough of the right foods

(RAW fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds) you can get away with eating anything in

moderation. I think your mindset has a lot to do with it. I've seen people

who are rigid and strict with their diet, and while it may be healthy,

physically speaking, if you're not really happy with it, is it really worth it?

Of

course, if I had serious symptoms, I might take a harsher approach. But, I'll

soon be 60 years old and am rarely taken for more than 50. If the lighting and

the distance are ideal, I can pass for even 10 years younger than that, so

what I am doing seems to work well for me.

The best advice I can give you is to start eliminating the foods that are bad

for us: basically anything cooked -- including anything pastuerized -- animal

products, refined sugars and flour, salt, chemical additives, (If you can't

pronounce it, you probably shouldn't be eating it.) most grains, etc. Read

the labels on any foods you buy. If you see words like " hydrogenated, " anything

with " Benz " or " sorb " in the word, nitrites, alum-anything or sulpher, stay

away. " Fit for Life, v0lumes I and II " by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond are very

good books to guide you to a transition to a healthier lifestyle.

If you feel the need for something medicinal, try fresh wheat grass juice.

It tastes kind of like medicine, although eventually people actually start

liking the taste of it. You will find that as you evolve to a healthier way of

living, your tastes will change. Learn to listen to your body. Each one of our

trillions of cells is extraordinarily intelligent. Our bodies talk to us all

the time. Most people just don't know how to listen. The body is a

miraculous self-repairing machine, if we just stay out of the way. We can learn

a

tremendous amount from watching animals in nature. Even our house pets, when

ill, will normally lay low and fast -- which is usually the best thing you can

do

to have the fastest recovery.

Doctors tend to pooh-pooh this approach and say that people like me are

over-simplifying things. I believe doctors overly complicate things. If health

were such a mystery, how could we and the other animals on the planet have

survived millions of years before there was so-called " medical science? "

Doctors

study and empower disease. They know pitifully little about real health.

Disease is not an entity, as we've been taught to believe, and something to

battle. It is a natural process, part of the way the body takes care of itself.

Dis-ease is the cure!

Ed

[Guest guest]

Tangerine,

There are a number of de-tox methods. I recommend you contact a

naturopathic doctor or educate yourself on various methods to cleanse

the lymphatic, blood, liver and intestinal systems. Do some reading and

internet research.

Good Luck and Go Well,

Eliot

Re: (no subject)

In a message dated 6/8/2004 4:16:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Tangerineburton@... writes:

but do you know of any natural way to

help my body rebalance from this recent toxic chemical exposure (sorry

body!).

For many people, the exercise alone makes all the difference in the

world. I

know it did for me. It was more than 15 years before I made major

changes to

my diet, and I still cheat. I believe if you eat enough of the right

foods

(RAW fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds) you can get away with eating

anything in

moderation. I think your mindset has a lot to do with it. I've seen

people

who are rigid and strict with their diet, and while it may be healthy,

physically speaking, if you're not really happy with it, is it really

worth it? Of

course, if I had serious symptoms, I might take a harsher approach.

But, I'll

soon be 60 years old and am rarely taken for more than 50. If the

lighting and

the distance are ideal, I can pass for even 10 years younger than that,

so

what I am doing seems to work well for me.

The best advice I can give you is to start eliminating the foods that

are bad

for us: basically anything cooked -- including anything pastuerized --

animal

products, refined sugars and flour, salt, chemical additives, (If you

can't

pronounce it, you probably shouldn't be eating it.) most grains, etc.

Read

the labels on any foods you buy. If you see words like " hydrogenated, "

anything

with " Benz " or " sorb " in the word, nitrites, alum-anything or sulpher,

stay

away. " Fit for Life, v0lumes I and II " by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond

are very

good books to guide you to a transition to a healthier lifestyle.

If you feel the need for something medicinal, try fresh wheat grass

juice.

It tastes kind of like medicine, although eventually people actually

start

liking the taste of it. You will find that as you evolve to a healthier

way of

living, your tastes will change. Learn to listen to your body. Each

one of our

trillions of cells is extraordinarily intelligent. Our bodies talk to

us all

the time. Most people just don't know how to listen. The body is a

miraculous self-repairing machine, if we just stay out of the way. We

can learn a

tremendous amount from watching animals in nature. Even our house pets,

when

ill, will normally lay low and fast -- which is usually the best thing

you can do

to have the fastest recovery.

Doctors tend to pooh-pooh this approach and say that people like me are

over-simplifying things. I believe doctors overly complicate things.

If health

were such a mystery, how could we and the other animals on the planet

have

survived millions of years before there was so-called " medical science? "

Doctors

study and empower disease. They know pitifully little about real

health.

Disease is not an entity, as we've been taught to believe, and something

to

battle. It is a natural process, part of the way the body takes care of

itself.

Dis-ease is the cure!

Ed

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/10/2004 3:19:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Tangerineburton@... writes:

Could I buy a video from you? Do you sell to England? Did I see

that you do telephone consultations?

The videos are Us VHS tapes. I don't know if they are compatible with the

European machines. The most important thing for immune health is just to keep

the body moving. Just put on your favorite dance music and have fun.

For international phone consults, go to keen.com and look for " Sobehealthy. "

Ed

[Guest guest]

Hi Tangerine...

If I may address your questions regarding the tests...? Alive

And Well has a new format for their website, which as usual,

contains some terrific information on this subject. The link is

http://www.aliveandwell.org . You'll see the link on the left and,

as of this writing, the frame at the right. The VL load test has

been _very effectively de-bunked...as for the T-cell test...when you

figure it out, let us all know, K? It just seems that the level of

killer cells in one's blood-stream is so dependant on so many

factors as to be so individual as to be practically impossible to

interpret except on a completely individual basis ( like... " How do

you feel, bud..? " would be far more indicative... )?

How are you doing? -

> Hello all.

> I had some questions and would love to hear anyone's

experiences. Am

> feeling quite tender so be gentle please! I was first diagnosed

over 10 years

> ago and was well until about 4 years ago when I began to get lots

of chest

> infections culminating in being hospitalised for pneumonia (they

didn't find out

> if it was pcp or not but was coughing up stuff so probably not).

After that I

> was very weakened and gave in to the pressure and began taking

meds. After a

> year I started to get side effects (lipodystrophy being the worst

for me!) and

> was changed. After another year of feeling sick every day(AZT!!) I

had one of

> my meds changed again. Another year and more lipoatrophy and I

said ENOUGH!!

> I have been off now for three months and feeling great, apart from

some

> suspected strep. I have been going for tests and sure enough CD4

has been going down

> consistently until now is 150. I refused to take Bactrim but today

was

> railroaded into having pentamadine (inhaled)....please don't give

me a hard time, I

> already regret it! Before the long road with pneumonia I refused

all meds,

> testing and to believe in HIV making me ill at all. Now I feel how

well I am

> without them but am a little confused as to why I got ill before

and what the cd4

> really shows and what the viral load is. I could do with some

words of wisdom

> and support for this no medicine path! I eat very well, take great

> supplements, use Chinese herbs for anything that arises ,

meditate, do yoga and walk!

> That is why I felt great! Before I got ill I did have a couple of

years of not

> looking after myself well, smoking and drinking and being very

under weight (98

> pounds and less). I don't do any of that now and am 113 pounds. I

never have

> been a drug user apart from marijuana. Any support or advice would

be very

> welcome!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I really don't care what you think. God Bless You and Keep You Well

[Guest guest]

I don't care for people that use foul language and are bigots. That's what

I'm reading here lately.

[Guest guest]

I'm HIV pos, I like reading this site! some are nice and some are pure evil

towards other people's opinions. I''m sorry if I offended you. You are not

who I intend to offend. Its Caer, she's so full of her self. I'm

unsubscribing, can't take reading her crap, nice way to make friends!

Good ridings

Caer:

GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your opinion, I do appreciate it, I just had enough of her

arrogance.

I'll be ok.

[Guest guest]

and I thought you were one of the normal people...........