Re: Anyone felt worse on hydrocortisone?

[Guest guest]

Hi again Mark,I've had my first face to face meeting with Dr P today and have come back feeling there is some hope ahead and that I might not have to spend the rest of my life bed ridden.I spoke to him about my lack of response to HC. He did all the bp and other checks and said basically my adrenals are 'wrecked' - his words - I think I've known that all along but it still comes as a shock when told by someone else. My BP is very iffy - I have had a differential of 30 on some days, so the plan of action is to start bringing in Florinef gradually, then increase HC and if this doesn't work to swop HC with Prednesolone. I'm sticking with current dose of T3 for thyroids. Increasing HC will take me over the physiological dose so it is pretty serious - but I am still bedbound and can see that there is no other option. So we'll see what happens. And as said - everyone is different - I'm not suggesting you may need any of these meds but thought you may find it useful to hear what my next moves are.Best wishes, Alison>> Cheers Alison, would be great to hear back on what Dr P has to say.> >

[Guest guest]

Your body doesn't produce T4 (thyroxine), it is your thyroid

gland that secretes T4 which is a mainly inactive thyroid hormone. The T4 then

has to convert in the liver, kidneys, skin, brain and tons of other thyroid

hormone receptors into the active thyroid hormone T3. It is T3 your body needs

to make it function, not T4. Your thyroid secretes about 13/14% of T4 and about

85% of T3. T4 has to get through the brain barrier to convert to T3.

Luv - Sheila

Even on T3 chris your body still produces some

T4, im on 125mcg of T3 and my body still produces a FT4 of 4 (11-22)

Steve

> might it not be the hc that is doing this, but rather t3 only? some t4 is

needed (i would argue, others would argue not) for brain functions. perhaps you

need some t4? have you thought about that? when i tried t3, i felt hit by a

truck, actually made me sleep at 10am for hours.

[Guest guest]

the thyroid produces mainly T4 with only a very small amount of T3 and even smaller T2 and T1. T4 is 4 or so times less potent than T3, but is still an active hormone it is rT3 that is inactive; although this can be converted to T2; which is also active slightly less potent than T3 and more potent than T4. If the thyroid proudced so much T3 we would be hyper most of the time and that is why it produces mainly T4. Even then most of each of the hormones is bound for transportattion around the body.

Your body doesn't produce T4 (thyroxine), it is your thyroid gland that secretes T4 which is a mainly inactive thyroid hormone. The T4 then has to convert in the liver, kidneys, skin, brain and tons of other thyroid hormone receptors into the active thyroid hormone T3. It is T3 your body needs to make it function, not T4. Your thyroid secretes about 13/14% of T4 and about 85% of T3. T4 has to get through the brain barrier to convert to T3.

Luv - Sheila

Even on T3 chris your body still produces some T4, im on 125mcg of T3 and my body still produces a FT4 of 4 (11-22) :PSteve> might it not be the hc that is doing this, but rather t3 only? some t4 is needed (i would argue, others would argue not) for brain functions. perhaps you need some t4? have you thought about that? when i tried t3, i felt hit by a truck, actually made me sleep at 10am for hours.

[Guest guest]

no I have not. Interesting, thanks for the info I will consider it if my next

saliva sample shows nothing different

Mark

> >

> > maybe it is that simple but my saliva results suggest I do!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No probs, looking forward to hearing more. Yes I did wonder about the quick turn

off too.

Cheers,

Mark

>

> Oh, I'm sorry Mark. I meant it's fantastic that you managed to reduce it

> - to someone like me who is on a fair dose, it did sound fantastic but

> rotten that you're still so rough. It sounds like you reduced quite

> quickly - I'm wondering if that has taken a toll on your body? Got some

> more info today from Dr P which I'll post in a separate message.All best

> and hope you've had an ok day, Alison

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for all your thoughts. I am williing to soend £500 to sort this out.

That's 2x70 on the saliva's, need testosterone and should check zinc and copper

too. Anything left over could go on other hormones.

Cheers,

Mark

---> i think my reply didn't get through again

>

> > Yeah I just did that questionnaire and came up possible/probable in

> > every one (but one), so it isn't that helpful for me and I think I'm

> > gonna have to get some more blood tests done.

>

> I'd say on the contrary it is helpful because it could indicate you have

multiple deficiencies, rather than just thyorid and cortisol. each deficiency

may be caused by thyroid or may not be and may be an issue in it's own right. i

would say they warrant further testing. doesn't dr peatfield say that dhea is

needed for thyroid uptake in his book? cortisol lowers testosterone? raising

one thing can lower another. things like pregnenolone are important so the body

can make oehter homrones like dhea, progesterone, cortisol? is it worth taking

a look at Dr Hertoghe's book?

>

>

>

> >Interesting what you say

> > about DHEA as obviously I am low on that too and initially I did

> > supplement with it, and I didn't feel as bad as I do now. Trouble is the

> > NTHAdrenals people say not to, as you know...

>

> just becuse someone says something convincgly and authoritatively, doesn't

make them right. just because an 'expert' doesn't agree with them, it doesn't

mean they're wrong either, but the qustion is what is right for you, right now?

i was prescribed dhea based on symptoms and blood tests. i would go with an

expert view over a forum, and how i felt over an expert view (within reason) ie

if i took prescribed dhea and felt dreadful, i'd not take it.

>

> > improving after having come down to 2.5mg HC. What did Dr P say about

> > your reaction to T3 ?

>

> i don't remember now, it was a long time ago and i don't want to say 'x said

y' when i am going by a shaky memory. dosesn't he say in his clinic literature

that receptors take time to come back online?

>

>

> > Yeah I will have to spend some money to figure this out but I will start

> > with a saliva test (got the kit today, probably spit Monday/Tues).

>

> how much do you have to spend if you don't mind me asking, is it worht getting

a full snapshot of this?

>

[Guest guest]

Thansk Alison for letting me know, it is all interesting. I wish you the best in

getting over this. I think Dr P has a very goo track record, but we have to be

prepared for the long slog.

CHeers,

Mark

> >

> > Cheers Alison, would be great to hear back on what Dr P has to say.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

ok i just wondered

i know tsts abroad can be cheaper, that's all - just a thought.

Eg, i got all these teets done for about 430 euros

Haemoglobin

Haematocrit

RBC(Erythrocytes)

MCV

MCHC

MCH

WBC(Leucocytes)

Vitamin B12

Folate erythrocytaire

Ferritin

Uric Acid

Urea

Creatinine

Glucose

Insuline

Sodium

Total Calcium

Geïoniseerd calcium

Erytrocytair Magnesium

25-Hydroxy-Vitamin D

Triglycerides

Total Cholesterol

HDL cholesterol

Cholesterol/HDL-C

Total Protein

Ceruloplasmine

hs CRP

Gamma-GT

GPX meas.

GPX

SOD meas.

SOD

Protéines SH

MPX

Vitamine E

Vitamine E/Chol

Vitamine A

Zinc

Copper

Homocystein

TSH

T3 free

T4 free

Ab to thyroglobulin

Anti-TPO

Cortisol (8h)

Transcortine

Cortisol free (8 AM)

FSH

Estradiol

Estrone

Progesterone

Testosterone

Testosteron free

Testostérone liée

S.H.B.G.

Pregnenolone

Androstanediol-gluc

DHEA sulfate

Somatomedin-C (IGF-1)

IGFBP-3

IGFBP-3/IGF1

URINALYSIS

Iodine

Iodine

Urinary volume (24h)

Creatinine

Creatinine

Sodium

Potassium

Calcium

Calcium

Magnesium

Magnesium

Phosphorus

URIN ENDOCRINOLOGY

T3

T3

T4

T4

Cortisol libre

17-ketosteroids chromatography

Androsterone

Etiocholanolone

DHEA

11-Keto-androsterone

11-Keto-etiocholanolone

11-OH-androsterone

11-OH-etiocholanolone

Total 17-Ketosteroids:

Pregnanediol

Pregnantriol

17-OH steroids-chromatography

Tetrahydrodeoxycortisol

Tetrahydrocortison

Tetrahydrocortisol

Allo-tetrahydrocortisol

Total 17-OH-steroids:

Growth hormone

6-sulfatoxy-melatonin

URIN TOXICOLOGY

Nickel

Chrome

Mercury

Lead

Cobalt

IgE Rast

IgE

Specific IgG

Candida albicans

THERAPEUTIC MONITORING

PSA

Vitamine C

>

> Hi

>

> Thanks for all your thoughts. I am williing to soend £500 to sort this out.

That's 2x70 on the saliva's, need testosterone and should check zinc and copper

too. Anything left over could go on other hormones.

[Guest guest]

That sounds like a good deal, which lab was that? Thanks, Mark

>

> ok i just wondered

>

> i know tsts abroad can be cheaper, that's all - just a thought.

>

> Eg, i got all these teets done for about 430 euros

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Just to let you know the Safe Uses of Cortisol link is broken...

thyroid treatment/files/ADRENALS/

Cheers,

Mark

>

> Hi , TPA has a wealth of information about adrenals, without the need

> to send our members elsewhere.

>

>

>

> All of this can be found in our FILES SECTION -- click for instance on

> <http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/kDcXTvx5iJUygB1D9ubmDE041K45rqSf2696lRc-V1V5Oa

EDITED to remove previous messages

[Guest guest]

Nope - works for me fine Mark. Just been there. Clicked on your

link - and it took me straight there - but this is a big link so hope it will

open http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/gMwZTvSaQ8FidEnFvit9qpprlU2dWaA4Rg-ns-t69BYpR0JN2XrzkQ7UYQpq3fy8q7hSd55bAmRwXqkWeIT_4g/ADRENALS/SAFE%20USES%20OF%20CORTISOL.doc

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila,

Just to let you know the Safe Uses of Cortisol link is broken...

thyroid treatment/files/ADRENALS/

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

your link worked for me too!

A

>

> Nope - works for me fine Mark. Just been there. Clicked on your link - and

> it took me straight there - but this is a big link so hope it will open

> http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/gMwZTvSaQ8FidEnFvit9qpprlU2dWaA4Rg-ns-t69BYpR0J

> N2XrzkQ7UYQpq3fy8q7hSd55bAmRwXqkWeIT_4g/ADRENALS/SAFE%20USES%20OF%20CORTISOL

> .doc

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Sheila,

>

> Just to let you know the Safe Uses of Cortisol link is broken...

>

> thyroid treatment/files/ADRENALS/

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Just a note that these Docs open in the bottom left of my computer screen and I

need to click on that ....then it opens completely.. If you're not looking

there, you could miss it. I'm using Microsoft Office Word and that is how I get

into them :0)

Just a FYI

Cheers,

JOT

-

> http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/gMwZTvSaQ8FidEnFvit9qpprlU2dWaA4Rg-ns-t69BYpR0J

> N2XrzkQ7UYQpq3fy8q7hSd55bAmRwXqkWeIT_4g/ADRENALS/SAFE%20USES%20OF%20CORTISOL

> .doc

>

[Guest guest]

Strange the link you just gave doesn't work, but the original one I gave now

works...my computer's gone hypo...

Thanks

Mark

>

> Nope - works for me fine Mark. Just been there. Clicked on your link - and

> it took me straight there - but this is a big link so hope it will open

> http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/gMwZTvSaQ8FidEnFvit9qpprlU2dWaA4Rg-ns-t69BYpR0J

> N2XrzkQ7UYQpq3fy8q7hSd55bAmRwXqkWeIT_4g/ADRENALS/SAFE%20USES%20OF%20CORTISOL

> .doc

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

it was one in belgium, i forget the name - i can find out if you want, but not

sure if they'll take a request from a UK Dr, also i'm not sure if it has to be

someone curently registered with GMC?

i got mine done as prep for the Dr TH Clinic.

chris

>

> That sounds like a good deal, which lab was that? Thanks, Mark

>

[Guest guest]

I see don't worry. So what did Dr H have to say about you not tolerating HC? Did

he help your condition in any way?

Cheers,

Mark

> >

> > That sounds like a good deal, which lab was that? Thanks, Mark

> >

>

[Guest guest]

i can tolerate HC? it was t3 i couldn't tolerate

they are helping yeah, wish i'd gone there years ago rather than try to figure

this out by myself

>

> I see don't worry. So what did Dr H have to say about you not tolerating HC?

Did he help your condition in any way?

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

[Guest guest]

Sorry got the wrong end of the stick. Would you mind saying a bit more about

your experience with Dr TH's clinic? Like what have they found out that you

didn't alone or with Docs in this country? I would definitely consider it but

seems like a big step going all the way to Bruseels!

Cheers,

Mark

>

> i can tolerate HC? it was t3 i couldn't tolerate

>

> they are helping yeah, wish i'd gone there years ago rather than try to figure

this out by myself

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

in brief, they test everything and if low they treat. no nhs dr has done their

level of testing on me, nor do they have their level of expertise across all the

hormones.

eg, i had low vit A, low copper, low ferritin, low vit D3, low pregnenolone,dhea

low testosteron (knew that already) and they will treat adrenals if necessary -

obviously everything they do has to be clinically validated, ie treatment based

on tests and symptoms.

trying to do it myself i didn't have all the right blood tests, and they cost a

fortune here, and it's hard interpeting some of them. yeah if you can find the

right private dr, sure, maybe they can help but you'll need tests (1000s) and

treatment - good luck with finding someone who can test, can/will treat, , and

knows what they're doing and is reasonable price! i'd hve gone with Dr

Peatfield for this but he cannot order more tests can he and they'd cost a

fortune here, nor ca he prescribe - some stuff is hard to get online also, what

happens if say you have GH deficiency? you can't get that easily. there is

someone in london i may have seen but its so expsensive with testing and london

prices.

your problems may be easy to solve, or may not be, but how do you know without

tests exactly what they are?

yeah i agree a big step, and not that cheap (but not that dear either if you

consider this is your life ) - i had to borrow to go there, and it was worth it.

i should have gone end of 2008 when i had the money and when all this started

but it got worse and worse and i thought i could do it myself, but i couldn't

and i wasted a lot of time.

suggestreading Dr TH's book....

chris

>

> Sorry got the wrong end of the stick. Would you mind saying a bit more about

your experience with Dr TH's clinic? Like what have they found out that you

didn't alone or with Docs in this country? I would definitely consider it but

seems like a big step going all the way to Bruseels!

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>