Re: re: circumcising boys

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/2001 1:58:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

gtvaldez@... writes:

<< Surely not EVERY child has to be circumcised (boys of course I mean!)

Is it certain children? Is it because of religion? What's going on?

So many of you are mentioning it that it just seems to me that every child

has to have it done? Do most of you belong to religious groups then?

Am I confused and British??!! Uummm yes! LOL >>

I forget the reasons why they started circumcision , but I remember it was a

ridiculous reason. Some docs believe it isnt necessary if proper steps are

taken to keep the foreskin clean. I have heard a few adult men interviewed

who were not circumcised until later in life and they say they wish they

would NOT have had it done. Not to be too graphic, but they say having sex

before was like driving a mercedes, after the circumcision it was like

driving a pinto. It cuts off most of the nerves along with the foreskin.

Both my boys are circumcised, if I had to make the decision again, I wouldn't

do it.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/01 1:59:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gtvaldez@...

writes:

> We had a long long discussion over the topic with my hubby with our son and

> in the long run we opted to do it as his father had some legit personal

> reasons and beliefs that I choose to back down on my opinion.

> in Texas USA

>

We ended up circ'ing our son as well. I know of a few men who had to have it

done later in life and it wasn't much fun. My son did wonderful through the

procedure and we had a really great OB do it with lots of anesthesia. I

nursed him 10 minutes afterwards and he didn't seem at all phased by the

procedure. He didn't even cry when it was done so I feel better knowing he

was fully anesthetized during it.

Lynne B.

PA

4.5 years old

7 months

[Guest guest]

Here in the US it is (unfortunatly) almost as taken for granted for

circumcising boys as it is for mandated shots. You ALMOST have to request it

to NOT happen.

We had a long long discussion over the topic with my hubby with our son and

in the long run we opted to do it as his father had some legit personal

reasons and beliefs that I choose to back down on my opinion.

in Texas USA

******************************************************************

- Proud mommy of Gilbert Cory Valdez 01-10-99

Proud mommy-to-be to le Alese due 07-15-01

Visit us: http://members.home.net/gtvaldez/

Imagination Station RFH

******************************************************************

Re: New Member

Hi

Nice to meet you, Im quite new too so Im just saying Hi!

I have 1 daughter called Ruby, the apple of my eye. She has been

unfortunately vaccinated up to the MMR but not including it. Very

fortunately, she seems to be ok so far...She isnt going to have any more

vaccinations and Ive just recently decided that, not long ago I was going to

selectively vaccinate......I am still nervous of my decision but am getting

lots of info., support and advice from ppl here. Welcome. :-)

Also wanted to ask you and/or others....what's with all this

circumcising!??!

Surely not EVERY child has to be circumcised (boys of course I mean!)

Is it certain children? Is it because of religion? What's going on?

So many of you are mentioning it that it just seems to me that every child

has to have it done? Do most of you belong to religious groups then?

Am I confused and British??!! Uummm yes! LOL

Sue, mum to Ruby (23 months)

Wales, UK

[Guest guest]

Our 12 mo. old son is not, and will not be, circumcised. It's not

necessary, my husband is not and neither is my 11 yr old brother.

Neither of them has ever had any kind of problem.

When he was born the doctor asked me if we wanted him circ'd and I

declined. He asked if my hsuband was, I said no, nor was my brother. He

said ok and moved on to whatever else we needed to talk about. I think

it is barbaric and cruel to put an infant through that kind of pain and

suffering needlessly. My aunt had to have her son circ'd when he was

about 2 because some stupid babysitter did not know how to clean it.

The sitter pulled back the foreskin and from them on he had infection

after infection. My aunt did not know the sitter had done that. (Just

wipe, it's not that difficult.) So, in order for her 2nd son not to go

through the same hassles, she just had him circ'd from the get-go.

Obviously, I don't agree w/ circimcision, but I can certainly see why

she felt that she needed to do that for her boys.

~

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> << Surely not EVERY child has to be circumcised (boys of course I

> mean!)>>

> who were not circumcised until later in life and they say they wish

> they

> would NOT have had it done. Not to be too graphic, but they say having

> sex

> before was like driving a mercedes, after the circumcision it was like

> driving a pinto.

yet i know other who say the opposite...they prefer it after, & besides

the operation is " so simple " that it's not worth making a big fuss over

when a baby, doesn't hurt etc,, but the HUMILIATION of having your penis

looked at etc. by male/female docs & nurses makes it worth it to get it

over with before you can remember it.

i guess it's a YMMV thing in some sense, but dh is adamant that his

circ, done when he could remember it well (8) did NOT hurt, but that it

was humiliating having " girls " (women nurses) look at it. :-( even his

mom!

another close friend had it done at 21, & experienced both ways & said

circed is miles better & also complained at the embarressment of having

female nurses examine it while he...erm...got excited which then was

uncomfortable (but he said not really painful).

fio.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/01 10:58:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

gtvaldez@... writes:

> Here in the US it is (unfortunatly) almost as taken for granted for

> circumcising boys as it is for mandated shots. You ALMOST have to request it

> to NOT happen.

>

>

I didn't find it too bad. While we were still in hospital after Trenton was

born they said we should make an appointment with the doctor to have it done

the following week. I said that we wern't getting it done and that was it.

A friend of mine had her little boy done, and mentioned to me a few months

later that his penis was " uneven " and he had a bump on the one side. The

doctor had told her that that was just the way his penis was, and there was

nothing they could do about it!!

Chelly

San Diego, CA

Mommy to Trenton 8/19/99 - No Shots!

" Time may be a great healer, but it's a lousy beautician. "

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/4/01 11:11:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, a1a2ana3@...

writes:

> Some docs believe it isnt necessary if proper steps are

>

I have heard some really stupid reasons, one which got me going was this

whole " clean " thing, and that the boy could get an infection. When people

tell me this, I always mention the fact that they still have teeth!!! Why not

pull them out just in case they get a cavity?

Chelly

San Diego, CA

Mommy to Trenton 8/19/99 - No Shots!

" Time may be a great healer, but it's a lousy beautician. "

[Guest guest]

my husband played hockey for many years and the boys always checked each

other out in the locker room

Kathy

: Actually... I don't know about locker rooms, but I remember my husband

: talking about measuring contests (if you get my drift) among his

childhood

: friends. Men!, ya gotta luv em!

[Guest guest]

Too much to be said about whether to circ. or not---

During my time in the hosp w/emerg. c-section, so NO hospital plan, I had an

attending nurse I nicknamed Helga (no offense to anyone out there)--she was

stocky build, bossy, and a little grumpy....and kept criticizing our

decisions to NOT cut my baby....she kept coming thru my room, asking WHEN was

he going to get snipped, and then passing thru and asking WHY I didn't want

him circumcized (you know they ALL do it, you know he will get TEASED when he

is older...blah blah blah). I just started ignoring her as she wasn't

listening to me anyway.

Hope this was good for a laugh!

[Guest guest]

I live in GA which is one of the higher circumcision areas. However, I had

in my birth plan that we did not want circumcision done on our baby boy (we

had a Bradley birth plan). We went through the birth plan with our doctor

before we went to the hospital. I honestly don't even remember the issue

coming up again. The pediatrician may have said something but certainly

didn't push the issue or ask why. I was pretty pleased with the overall

experience.

[Guest guest]

Actually... I don't know about locker rooms, but I remember my husband

talking about measuring contests (if you get my drift) among his childhood

friends. Men!, ya gotta luv em!

Hoo-hahs huh? Haven't heard that one before - I like it.

[Guest guest]

Uttt-ohhh, Looks like this could get nasty! I hope this won't become the

Circumcison e-mail list instead of Vaccination. From what I have seen over

at the Discussion Boards at www.mothering.com, this subject tends to get

volatile.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/5/2001 5:09:01 PM Central Daylight Time,

carriebeary77@... writes:

> I get attitudes from people because I

> breastfeed, my formula feeding friends get it from breastfeeders... We

> can't win on any issue, it seems.

AMEN! as a pregnant first timer, this is the TRUTH! I can't win in

conversations

I'm not letting it bother me for the most part. The only things that really

gets to me is breastfeeding. I would LOVE to breastfeed and per the Dr.

there is about a 50/50 chance I'll be able to. BUT I had surgery on my

breasts about 10 years ago and basically there is a chance the " plumbing " is

disconnected. People are just so brazen about asking me if I'm going to bf

and if I say, " I'm not sure " or " I hope so " they just LAUNCH into me! I

really hate having to explain all my personal information about my surgery to

any Joe Schmoe that feels like butting in! I have CRIED about not being able

to bf and I sure don't need more guilt about it.

Carolyn S.

Pearland, TX

<A HREF= " http://hometown.aol.com/karalyn28/Cindex.htm " >Byron and Carolyn's Home

Page</A>

[Guest guest]

You know what gets me? Is that they think that in the locker rooms at

school all the boys will be comparing their hoo-hah's... Umm, I have 3

brothers and none of them has ever compared to each other or anyone

else! Yuck.

~

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I had the opposite experience when I had my last son. I was regarded as strange

because I wanted my son circumcised and I kept having to tell them over and over

before it sunk in.

Why are anti-circumcision people so adamant?

Phyllis

Re: New Member

Hi

Nice to meet you, Im quite new too so Im just saying Hi!

I have 1 daughter called Ruby, the apple of my eye. She has been

unfortunately vaccinated up to the MMR but not including it. Very

fortunately, she seems to be ok so far...She isnt going to have any more

vaccinations and Ive just recently decided that, not long ago I was going to

selectively vaccinate......I am still nervous of my decision but am getting

lots of info., support and advice from ppl here. Welcome. :-)

Also wanted to ask you and/or others....what's with all this

circumcising!??!

Surely not EVERY child has to be circumcised (boys of course I mean!)

Is it certain children? Is it because of religion? What's going on?

So many of you are mentioning it that it just seems to me that every child

has to have it done? Do most of you belong to religious groups then?

Am I confused and British??!! Uummm yes! LOL

Sue, mum to Ruby (23 months)

Wales, UK

[Guest guest]

I think you could reverse the question as well and ask ... " why are

pro-circumcision people so adamant? " We are expecting a boy and the

comments I have received from both angles have been pretty much negative

toward the other. There are babies (children) who have problems, and then

those that don't. There are parents who go in the room and regret it, and

those that don't. The main thing is that you research what ever decisions

you make for you child. Many of those on this list are adamant about no -

vaccinations while others get some. The bottom line is decide what is right

for you. Dawn

Re: re: circumcising boys

I had the opposite experience when I had my last son. I was regarded as

strange because I wanted my son circumcised and I kept having to tell them

over and over before it sunk in.

Why are anti-circumcision people so adamant?

Phyllis

Re: New Member

Hi

Nice to meet you, Im quite new too so Im just saying Hi!

I have 1 daughter called Ruby, the apple of my eye. She has been

unfortunately vaccinated up to the MMR but not including it. Very

fortunately, she seems to be ok so far...She isnt going to have any more

vaccinations and Ive just recently decided that, not long ago I was going

to

selectively vaccinate......I am still nervous of my decision but am

getting

lots of info., support and advice from ppl here. Welcome. :-)

Also wanted to ask you and/or others....what's with all this

circumcising!??!

Surely not EVERY child has to be circumcised (boys of course I mean!)

Is it certain children? Is it because of religion? What's going on?

So many of you are mentioning it that it just seems to me that every child

has to have it done? Do most of you belong to religious groups then?

Am I confused and British??!! Uummm yes! LOL

Sue, mum to Ruby (23 months)

Wales, UK

[Guest guest]

I agree!!

Re: New Member

Hi

Nice to meet you, Im quite new too so Im just saying Hi!

I have 1 daughter called Ruby, the apple of my eye. She has been

unfortunately vaccinated up to the MMR but not including it. Very

fortunately, she seems to be ok so far...She isnt going to have any more

vaccinations and Ive just recently decided that, not long ago I was going

to

selectively vaccinate......I am still nervous of my decision but am

getting

lots of info., support and advice from ppl here. Welcome. :-)

Also wanted to ask you and/or others....what's with all this

circumcising!??!

Surely not EVERY child has to be circumcised (boys of course I mean!)

Is it certain children? Is it because of religion? What's going on?

So many of you are mentioning it that it just seems to me that every child

has to have it done? Do most of you belong to religious groups then?

Am I confused and British??!! Uummm yes! LOL

Sue, mum to Ruby (23 months)

Wales, UK

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/5/2001 7:40:48 PM Central Daylight Time,

fiosteve@... writes:

> then maybe they could help you out anyhow

> on the BFAR list, with either other lists that are available, or with

> the same general info about what to do if you don't have a 100% milk

> supply.

Thanks so much. That is really helpful information!

Carolyn S.

Pearland, TX

<A HREF= " http://hometown.aol.com/karalyn28/Cindex.htm " >Byron and Carolyn's Home

Page</A>

[Guest guest]

I'm adamant, Phyllis, because I can't stand to see babies in

unnnecessary pain. (Or anyone, for that matter.) It's also part of the

reason I won't vax anymore. Perhaps silly, but that's just me.

~

--- Bergenholtz Family <bergfam@...> wrote:

> I had the opposite experience when I had my last son. I was regarded

> as strange because I wanted my son circumcised and I kept having to

> tell them over and over before it sunk in.

>

> Why are anti-circumcision people so adamant?

>

> Phyllis

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That is not silly, of course. There are alot of debateable issues in this, that

is all. It seems that the anti-anything people make alot of assumptions on what

is FACT and if everyone just knew the FACTS then EVERYONE would feel a certain

way and act a certain way, and why can't everyone just see the FACTS. And to

drive home the FACTS people often talk in graphic terms that implies that anyone

who might feel or think differently are wrong or stupid or unenlightened or

something like that. Nothing in life is that cut-and-dried, if you pardon my

expression.

Phyllis

Re: re: circumcising boys

I'm adamant, Phyllis, because I can't stand to see babies in

unnnecessary pain. (Or anyone, for that matter.) It's also part of the

reason I won't vax anymore. Perhaps silly, but that's just me.

~

--- Bergenholtz Family <bergfam@...> wrote:

> I had the opposite experience when I had my last son. I was regarded

> as strange because I wanted my son circumcised and I kept having to

> tell them over and over before it sunk in.

>

> Why are anti-circumcision people so adamant?

>

> Phyllis

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Cut-and-dried made me giggle. I get attitudes from people because I

breastfeed, my formula feeding friends get it from breastfeeders... We

can't win on any issue, it seems. We face similar trials w/ the

vaccinations issue, Co-sleeping, wearing baby in a sling, CIO or not,

whatever. Nobody's happy. I just figure if you do what feels right for

YOUR family, then just ignore everybody else!

~

--- Bergenholtz Family <bergfam@...> wrote:

> That is not silly, of course. There are alot of debateable issues in

> this, that is all. It seems that the anti-anything people make alot

> of assumptions on what is FACT and if everyone just knew the FACTS

> then EVERYONE would feel a certain way and act a certain way, and why

> can't everyone just see the FACTS. And to drive home the FACTS

> people often talk in graphic terms that implies that anyone who might

> feel or think differently are wrong or stupid or unenlightened or

> something like that. Nothing in life is that cut-and-dried, if you

> pardon my expression.

> Phyllis

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I fear that too! Yes, I see it does get volatile!

Re: re: circumcising boys

Uttt-ohhh, Looks like this could get nasty! I hope this won't become the

Circumcison e-mail list instead of Vaccination. From what I have seen over

at the Discussion Boards at www.mothering.com, this subject tends to get

volatile.

[Guest guest]

I AGREE!!!!! I just wish people would be a little more accepting and sensitive

when stating their particular view point.

Re: re: circumcising boys

Cut-and-dried made me giggle. I get attitudes from people because I

breastfeed, my formula feeding friends get it from breastfeeders... We

can't win on any issue, it seems. We face similar trials w/ the

vaccinations issue, Co-sleeping, wearing baby in a sling, CIO or not,

whatever. Nobody's happy. I just figure if you do what feels right for

YOUR family, then just ignore everybody else!

~

--- Bergenholtz Family <bergfam@...> wrote:

> That is not silly, of course. There are alot of debateable issues in

> this, that is all. It seems that the anti-anything people make alot

> of assumptions on what is FACT and if everyone just knew the FACTS

> then EVERYONE would feel a certain way and act a certain way, and why

> can't everyone just see the FACTS. And to drive home the FACTS

> people often talk in graphic terms that implies that anyone who might

> feel or think differently are wrong or stupid or unenlightened or

> something like that. Nothing in life is that cut-and-dried, if you

> pardon my expression.

> Phyllis

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> gets to me is breastfeeding. I would LOVE to breastfeed and per the

> Dr.

> there is about a 50/50 chance I'll be able to. BUT I had surgery on

> my

> breasts about 10 years ago and basically there is a chance the

> " plumbing " is

> disconnected.

Hope you don't mind my asking: did you have a reduction? If so, did

you know there's a " bf after reduction " (BFAR) mailing list on

groups? I learnt this through an aquaintance who had the

reduction; I'm donating milk to her so she can feed more human milk to

her baby. she gives it in a lact-aid system (www.lact-aid.com).

In case you are interested, the mailing list is called BFAR you can

search for it under that in

If that was not your surgery (I know there are other things that people

have done too to them! ;-)), then maybe they could help you out anyhow

on the BFAR list, with either other lists that are available, or with

the same general info about what to do if you don't have a 100% milk

supply.

Good luck with bf, I hope you do well! :-)

Fio.

[Guest guest]

Amen, sistah...that is our goal...education and experiences from others so

you can make an educated decision based on what is right for you at this

time. Some people change their minds and regret things and try to make it

up later. I,myself, cannot fathom why anyone would

bottlefeed,vax,circumcise(except for religious reasons{and I've read they're

making a little cut or just going through the motions,sometimes}),do a

hospital birth,request drugs while in labor,or not use a homeopath or not

homeschool. I do not homeschool but don't have any good reasons why not(too

lazy). And didn't know about homeopaths until recently. It is up to the

individual and we need to support them and offer suggestions when

undesireable effects occur. Most of my friends are typical and we are still

friends and they listen to what I have " discovered " . Haven't swayed any yet

but they know they can count on me for help if they start questioning the

herd menatality...Education, my friend...

I am not a medical doctor,

nor do I portray one on t.v.!

(But my husband,Mike,is!!!)

Laurie>Bucyrus,Ohio

mother to (13),Donovan(8),

Buck(4),Luke(3), and (1)

2 csecs,3 VBACs(1 partial waterbirth,

1 complete waterbirth)

Please visit us at our website

http://www.goldenprideweb.com/drmikeandlaurie

for information on nutritional supplements,

including the original oral chelator, skin care,

weight loss(The Florida Diet),Herbs for Health,

and home products

.. The main thing is that you research what ever decisions

you make for you child. Many of those on this list are adamant about no -

vaccinations while others get some. The bottom line is decide what is right

for you. Dawn