Re: [Media] Our health police ordeal

February 3, 2000

In a message dated 2/3/00 7:48:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, gk-cfic@...

writes:

<< and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

after it is administered.

If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody. >>

\we rejected the Vitamin K shot, Hep B and eye salve in June when was

born. We received no flack at all from the hospital, just 'are you sure?',

then sign here. In fact, the asst. at our ob's office agreed with us that

they weren't necessary, and she said it's no big deal to deny them. We

didn't have a problem.

Teri

February 3, 2000

In a message dated 2/3/2000 9:48:45 AM Central Standard Time,

gk-cfic@... writes:

<< If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

>>

I had no problems, it was in my birth plan -- and, in fact, the nurse

assigned to me spend several hours asking me questions and talking about the

issues of vaccines. Granted, she probably is unusual (very, in my

experience), but the hospital itself kept their mouths shut. Now there are

other problems problems I had....

February 3, 2000

If Americans think that they are safe from this kind of brutality,

consider that antibiotic and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

after it is administered.

If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

gary

On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:23:20 -0000 " " <whale@...>

writes:

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

>From: " " <whale@...>

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>The law ordered a baby to be immunised against hepatitis but, asks

> , did the doctors take the case too far?

>

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house which echoes to the

>sound of laughter.

>

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of lush land and the

>house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano, well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring family. Yet

>within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police, social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their

>baby to hospital to have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become probably the lust

>case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK. Dr

>Gordon , Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow

>University, comments that it was " a story of medical arrogance,

>leading to misuse of the law and of the failure of Government

>ministers to uphold policy that all childhood vaccinations are to be

>given only with parental consent " .

>

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate Caecilia after

>their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in 1993.

>

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms had to be tied to

>his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>

>The couple couldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause, but doctors

>could not prove it wasn't.

>

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal clinic.

>

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months pregnant, a letter horn

>Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an NHS hospital that

>the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and sought independent medical opinion on the best course of

>action.

>

>All those consulted leaders in their fields - believed the Bastians

>should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease - an

>alternative the family was perfectly prepared to try.

>

>But, within hours of the baby's birth at home, legal proceedings began

>and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>

>The police who turned up at the Bastians' home told Albrecht that, if

>he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

>

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>

>As soon as the news of the court order was received, a doctor took the

>baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht and Albrecht's

>mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going through everything

>that had happened and thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' " says

>Albrecht.

>

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the authority's drastic

>measures. " We weren't prepared to accept the parents' refusal, " he

>says. " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever

>they like with a child. They are not allowed to put their children at

>an unacceptably high risks and that's what we feel the Bastians were

>doing. "

>

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority's legal actions amounted

>to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician and

>editor of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the social services

>applied for permission to give their baby the first booster shot the

>following month.

>

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to Benedikt's, the

>authority concluded that the timing of the rash was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians present their

>baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at his

>wits' end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee

>with the child.

>

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed that Caecilia had

>remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor contended that there

>was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the fourth jab - but they wouldn't enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first

>time, the Bastians were free to come and go as they pleased.

>

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I wouldn't treat an

>animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says Alhrecht.

> " I wouldn't treat an animal, without the farmer's consent and if there

>were the slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect

>from an adverse reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat

>that treatment. "

>

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy may have been

>part of his family's undoing.

>

> " That's not the way people here in Northern Ireland get their views

>across. "

>

>He questions whether this episode would have happened if he had been

>wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the world

>and, if I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal

>aid and I would have been better able to fight them. "

>

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any day now. Her

>parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life's rocky road

>but, for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be

>laid to rest.

>

>[Vaccination] [Vaccine ploys]

>

> www.whale.to

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

><tt>From:</tt> <tt>

> & quot; & quot; & lt;whale@... & gt;</tt>

>

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " >

><HTML><HEAD>

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><DIV>

><A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/health_police.html " >Our health

>police

>ordeal</A></DIV>

><DIV>

>Our health police

>ordeal

>The law ordered a baby to be

>immunised against

>hepatitis but, asks , did the doctors take the case too

>far?

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house

>which echoes

>to the sound of laughter.

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of

>lush land

>and the house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that

>can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano,

>well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring

>family.

>Yet within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police,

>social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh,

>Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their baby to

>hospital to

>have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become

>probably the

>lust case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK.

>Dr Gordon

>, Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow University,

>comments

>that it was " a story of medical arrogance, leading to misuse of the

>law and of

>the failure of Government ministers to uphold policy that all

>childhood

>vaccinations are to be given only with parental consent " .

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate

>Caecilia

>after their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in

>1993.

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms

>had to be

>tied to his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>The couple couldn & #8217;t prove that the vaccine was

>the cause, but

>doctors could not prove it wasn & #8217;t.

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to

>express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal

>clinic.

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months

>pregnant, a letter

>horn Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services

>board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an

>NHS hospital

>that the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is

>a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and

>sought independent medical opinion on the best course of action.

>All those consulted leaders in their fields & #8212;

>believed the

>Bastians should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is

>injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease & #8212; an

>alternative the

>family was perfectly prepared to try.

>But, within hours of the baby & #8217;s birth at home,

>legal

>proceedings began and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>The police who turned up at the Bastians & #8217; home

>told Albrecht

>that, if he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he

>could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he

>says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne

>Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>As soon as the news of the court order was received,

>a doctor

>took the baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht

>and

>Albrecht & #8217;s mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going

>through everything

>that had happened and thinking, & #8216;Where did I go wrong? & #8217; "

>says Albrecht.

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the

>authority & #8217;s

>drastic measures. " We weren & #8217;t prepared to accept the

>parents & #8217; refusal, " he says.

> " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever they

>like with a

>child. They are not allowed to put their children at an unacceptably

>high risks

>and that & #8217;s what we feel the Bastians were doing. "

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority & #8217;s

>legal actions

>amounted to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician

>and editor

>of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the

>social

>services applied for permission to give their baby the first booster

>shot the

>following month.

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to

>

>Benedikt & #8217;s, the authority concluded that the timing of the rash

>was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians

>present

>their baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at

>his wits & #8217;

>end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee with

>the

>child.

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed

>that

>Caecilia had remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor

>contended that

>there was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health

>authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the

>fourth jab & #8212; but they wouldn & #8217;t enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court

>order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first time, the Bastians

>were free to

>come and go as they pleased.

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat

>an animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says

>Alhrecht. " I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat an animal, without the farmer & #8217;s consent and

>if there were the

>slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect from an

>adverse

>reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat that

>treatment. "

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy

>may have

>been part of his family & #8217;s undoing.

> " That & #8217;s not the way people here in Northern

>Ireland get their

>views across. "

>He questions whether this episode would have happened

>if he had

>been wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the

>world and, if

>I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal aid and I

>would have

>been better able to fight them. "

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any

>day now.

>Her parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life & #8217;s

>rocky road but,

>for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be laid

>to

>rest.

>[<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >Vaccination</A>] & nbsp; [<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/ploys.html " >Vaccine

>ploys</A>] & nbsp; <A

>href= " http://www.whale.to " >www.whale.to</A>

></DIV></BODY></HTML>

>

><hr>

>

><!-- begin

February 3, 2000

> From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

Vit K injections are now mandatory for

> all newborns.

Has this occurred within the last 16 months? Our Doctor was quite

agreeably to not giving a Vitamin K injection.

Mama to 9-16-98

February 3, 2000

Teri,

I found out recently, and will need more time to get all the details.

Apparently, several states recently passed the regulations making it

mandatory. I'm told that hospitals were experiencing too many refusals

from parents. Perhaps your experience occurred before the new mandates.

When I learn more, I'll pass it along.

gary

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:52:32 EST Knight525@... writes:

>From: Knight525@...

>

>In a message dated 2/3/00 7:48:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,

>gk-cfic@...

>writes:

>

><< and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

> newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before

>or

> after it is administered.

>

> If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

> services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody. >>

>

>\we rejected the Vitamin K shot, Hep B and eye salve in June when

> was

>born. We received no flack at all from the hospital, just 'are you

>sure?',

>then sign here. In fact, the asst. at our ob's office agreed with us

>that

>they weren't necessary, and she said it's no big deal to deny them.

>We

>didn't have a problem.

>

>Teri

>

>---------------------------

February 3, 2000

It's very recent. I'll find out more and post it.

gary

On Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:18:34 -0500 & <kelsey1@...>

writes:

>From: & <kelsey1@...>

>

>> From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

> Vit K injections are now mandatory for

>> all newborns.

>

>Has this occurred within the last 16 months? Our Doctor was quite

>agreeably to not giving a Vitamin K injection.

>

>Mama to 9-16-98

>

>---------------------------

February 3, 2000

This is a great reason to have your baby at home with like-minded midwives, like

we did. These things were up to us according to our midwife, regardless of the

state.

Re: Our health police ordeal

From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

If Americans think that they are safe from this kind of brutality,

consider that antibiotic and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

after it is administered.

If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

gary

On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:23:20 -0000 " " <whale@...>

writes:

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

>From: " " <whale@...>

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>The law ordered a baby to be immunised against hepatitis but, asks

> , did the doctors take the case too far?

>

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house which echoes to the

>sound of laughter.

>

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of lush land and the

>house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano, well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring family. Yet

>within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police, social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their

>baby to hospital to have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become probably the lust

>case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK. Dr

>Gordon , Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow

>University, comments that it was " a story of medical arrogance,

>leading to misuse of the law and of the failure of Government

>ministers to uphold policy that all childhood vaccinations are to be

>given only with parental consent " .

>

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate Caecilia after

>their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in 1993.

>

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms had to be tied to

>his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>

>The couple couldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause, but doctors

>could not prove it wasn't.

>

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal clinic.

>

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months pregnant, a letter horn

>Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an NHS hospital that

>the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and sought independent medical opinion on the best course of

>action.

>

>All those consulted leaders in their fields - believed the Bastians

>should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease - an

>alternative the family was perfectly prepared to try.

>

>But, within hours of the baby's birth at home, legal proceedings began

>and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>

>The police who turned up at the Bastians' home told Albrecht that, if

>he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

>

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>

>As soon as the news of the court order was received, a doctor took the

>baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht and Albrecht's

>mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going through everything

>that had happened and thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' " says

>Albrecht.

>

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the authority's drastic

>measures. " We weren't prepared to accept the parents' refusal, " he

>says. " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever

>they like with a child. They are not allowed to put their children at

>an unacceptably high risks and that's what we feel the Bastians were

>doing. "

>

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority's legal actions amounted

>to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician and

>editor of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the social services

>applied for permission to give their baby the first booster shot the

>following month.

>

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to Benedikt's, the

>authority concluded that the timing of the rash was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians present their

>baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at his

>wits' end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee

>with the child.

>

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed that Caecilia had

>remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor contended that there

>was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the fourth jab - but they wouldn't enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first

>time, the Bastians were free to come and go as they pleased.

>

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I wouldn't treat an

>animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says Alhrecht.

> " I wouldn't treat an animal, without the farmer's consent and if there

>were the slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect

>from an adverse reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat

>that treatment. "

>

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy may have been

>part of his family's undoing.

>

> " That's not the way people here in Northern Ireland get their views

>across. "

>

>He questions whether this episode would have happened if he had been

>wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the world

>and, if I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal

>aid and I would have been better able to fight them. "

>

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any day now. Her

>parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life's rocky road

>but, for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be

>laid to rest.

>

>[Vaccination] [Vaccine ploys]

>

> www.whale.to

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

><tt>From:</tt> <tt>

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><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " >

><HTML><HEAD>

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><DIV>

><A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/health_police.html " >Our health

>police

>ordeal</A></DIV>

><DIV>

>Our health police

>ordeal

>The law ordered a baby to be

>immunised against

>hepatitis but, asks , did the doctors take the case too

>far?

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house

>which echoes

>to the sound of laughter.

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of

>lush land

>and the house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that

>can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano,

>well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring

>family.

>Yet within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police,

>social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh,

>Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their baby to

>hospital to

>have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become

>probably the

>lust case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK.

>Dr Gordon

>, Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow University,

>comments

>that it was " a story of medical arrogance, leading to misuse of the

>law and of

>the failure of Government ministers to uphold policy that all

>childhood

>vaccinations are to be given only with parental consent " .

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate

>Caecilia

>after their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in

>1993.

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms

>had to be

>tied to his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>The couple couldn & #8217;t prove that the vaccine was

>the cause, but

>doctors could not prove it wasn & #8217;t.

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to

>express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal

>clinic.

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months

>pregnant, a letter

>horn Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services

>board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an

>NHS hospital

>that the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is

>a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and

>sought independent medical opinion on the best course of action.

>All those consulted leaders in their fields & #8212;

>believed the

>Bastians should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is

>injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease & #8212; an

>alternative the

>family was perfectly prepared to try.

>But, within hours of the baby & #8217;s birth at home,

>legal

>proceedings began and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>The police who turned up at the Bastians & #8217; home

>told Albrecht

>that, if he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he

>could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he

>says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne

>Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>As soon as the news of the court order was received,

>a doctor

>took the baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht

>and

>Albrecht & #8217;s mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going

>through everything

>that had happened and thinking, & #8216;Where did I go wrong? & #8217; "

>says Albrecht.

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the

>authority & #8217;s

>drastic measures. " We weren & #8217;t prepared to accept the

>parents & #8217; refusal, " he says.

> " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever they

>like with a

>child. They are not allowed to put their children at an unacceptably

>high risks

>and that & #8217;s what we feel the Bastians were doing. "

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority & #8217;s

>legal actions

>amounted to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician

>and editor

>of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the

>social

>services applied for permission to give their baby the first booster

>shot the

>following month.

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to

>

>Benedikt & #8217;s, the authority concluded that the timing of the rash

>was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians

>present

>their baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at

>his wits & #8217;

>end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee with

>the

>child.

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed

>that

>Caecilia had remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor

>contended that

>there was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health

>authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the

>fourth jab & #8212; but they wouldn & #8217;t enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court

>order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first time, the Bastians

>were free to

>come and go as they pleased.

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat

>an animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says

>Alhrecht. " I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat an animal, without the farmer & #8217;s consent and

>if there were the

>slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect from an

>adverse

>reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat that

>treatment. "

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy

>may have

>been part of his family & #8217;s undoing.

> " That & #8217;s not the way people here in Northern

>Ireland get their

>views across. "

>He questions whether this episode would have happened

>if he had

>been wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the

>world and, if

>I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal aid and I

>would have

>been better able to fight them. "

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any

>day now.

>Her parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life & #8217;s

>rocky road but,

>for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be laid

>to

>rest.

>[<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >Vaccination</A>] & nbsp; [<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/ploys.html " >Vaccine

>ploys</A>] & nbsp; <A

>href= " http://www.whale.to " >www.whale.to</A>

></DIV></BODY></HTML>

>

><hr>

>

><!-- begin

February 3, 2000

><< and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

> newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

> after it is administered.

We had planned to not have the eye stuff and shots at the hospital but they

did it so fast my husband didnt have time to even say stop. My son had the

typical reaction I had read about and feared he would have. His eyes were glued

shut for the first 3 weeks of his life everytime he would wake up from sleeping.

And they gave us some antibiotic cream that seemed to help for a bit but then

made it all gunky again.

Sure made me mad that I didnt get a chance to say no and I forgot once we go to

the hopital to say I didnt want that for our child. I wonder if you can but that

in a birth plan ahead of time??

------------------------------------------------------------

DrakMail - Powered by BigMailBox.com - http://www.bigmailbox.com

February 3, 2000

In a message dated 2/3/2000 4:05:56 PM Central Standard Time,

lucasjt@... writes:

<< we did the vit. K and

the urging of our midwife because she had been stuck in the canal so long

and may have had trauma >>

I am interested to know how Vitamin K deficiency would be relevant -- was

there a chance she would be bleeding internally?

February 3, 2000

Three years ago we refused the eye ointment and Hep. (we did the vit. K and

the urging of our midwife because she had been stuck in the canal so long

and may have had trauma)

A nurse tried to report us to social services because of the no eye

ointment, even though we had signed a waiver required by the hospital. She

had no grounds for it and it was rectified by the higher ups before she

actually made the call. But what a headache for our midwife who had to

intervine on our behalf (she sheilded us from the whole event. We didn't

even know until days later it happened)

Re: Our health police ordeal

> From: & <kelsey1@...>

>

> > From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

> Vit K injections are now mandatory for

> > all newborns.

>

> Has this occurred within the last 16 months? Our Doctor was quite

> agreeably to not giving a Vitamin K injection.

>

> Mama to 9-16-98

>

> ---------------------------

February 3, 2000

I thought it would be great to have a baby at home too, no interference...I was

very undecided about it.

When the time came, I went to the hospital. I was glad I did, my baby suffered

no heart deceleration, no telling signs of distress, my midwife and dr's were

totally unsuspecting-- that he would be born not breathing, not moving, suddenly

almost dead. They saved him and put him on a ventilator - no diagnosis, it was a

natural childbirth too. Then, they add insult to his injury, and inject him with

Hep B, and he goes into a seizure !

So you cant win, at least not right now, at home he would have died, at the

hospital he suffered permanent injury to his brain (SI Dysfunction).

le

Re: Our health police ordeal

From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

If Americans think that they are safe from this kind of brutality,

consider that antibiotic and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

after it is administered.

If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

gary

On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:23:20 -0000 " " <whale@...>

writes:

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

>From: " " <whale@...>

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>The law ordered a baby to be immunised against hepatitis but, asks

> , did the doctors take the case too far?

>

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house which echoes to the

>sound of laughter.

>

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of lush land and the

>house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano, well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring family. Yet

>within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police, social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their

>baby to hospital to have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become probably the lust

>case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK. Dr

>Gordon , Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow

>University, comments that it was " a story of medical arrogance,

>leading to misuse of the law and of the failure of Government

>ministers to uphold policy that all childhood vaccinations are to be

>given only with parental consent " .

>

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate Caecilia after

>their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in 1993.

>

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms had to be tied to

>his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>

>The couple couldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause, but doctors

>could not prove it wasn't.

>

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal clinic.

>

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months pregnant, a letter horn

>Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an NHS hospital that

>the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and sought independent medical opinion on the best course of

>action.

>

>All those consulted leaders in their fields - believed the Bastians

>should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease - an

>alternative the family was perfectly prepared to try.

>

>But, within hours of the baby's birth at home, legal proceedings began

>and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>

>The police who turned up at the Bastians' home told Albrecht that, if

>he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

>

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>

>As soon as the news of the court order was received, a doctor took the

>baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht and Albrecht's

>mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going through everything

>that had happened and thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' " says

>Albrecht.

>

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the authority's drastic

>measures. " We weren't prepared to accept the parents' refusal, " he

>says. " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever

>they like with a child. They are not allowed to put their children at

>an unacceptably high risks and that's what we feel the Bastians were

>doing. "

>

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority's legal actions amounted

>to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician and

>editor of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the social services

>applied for permission to give their baby the first booster shot the

>following month.

>

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to Benedikt's, the

>authority concluded that the timing of the rash was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians present their

>baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at his

>wits' end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee

>with the child.

>

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed that Caecilia had

>remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor contended that there

>was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the fourth jab - but they wouldn't enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first

>time, the Bastians were free to come and go as they pleased.

>

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I wouldn't treat an

>animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says Alhrecht.

> " I wouldn't treat an animal, without the farmer's consent and if there

>were the slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect

>from an adverse reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat

>that treatment. "

>

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy may have been

>part of his family's undoing.

>

> " That's not the way people here in Northern Ireland get their views

>across. "

>

>He questions whether this episode would have happened if he had been

>wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the world

>and, if I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal

>aid and I would have been better able to fight them. "

>

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any day now. Her

>parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life's rocky road

>but, for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be

>laid to rest.

>

>[Vaccination] [Vaccine ploys]

>

> www.whale.to

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

><tt>From:</tt> <tt>

> & quot; & quot; & lt;whale@... & gt;</tt>

>

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " >

><HTML><HEAD>

><META content= " text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 " http-equiv=Content-Type>

><META content= " MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000 " name=GENERATOR>

><STYLE></STYLE>

></HEAD>

><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

><DIV>

><A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/health_police.html " >Our health

>police

>ordeal</A></DIV>

><DIV>

>Our health police

>ordeal

>The law ordered a baby to be

>immunised against

>hepatitis but, asks , did the doctors take the case too

>far?

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house

>which echoes

>to the sound of laughter.

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of

>lush land

>and the house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that

>can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano,

>well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring

>family.

>Yet within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police,

>social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh,

>Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their baby to

>hospital to

>have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become

>probably the

>lust case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK.

>Dr Gordon

>, Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow University,

>comments

>that it was " a story of medical arrogance, leading to misuse of the

>law and of

>the failure of Government ministers to uphold policy that all

>childhood

>vaccinations are to be given only with parental consent " .

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate

>Caecilia

>after their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in

>1993.

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms

>had to be

>tied to his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>The couple couldn & #8217;t prove that the vaccine was

>the cause, but

>doctors could not prove it wasn & #8217;t.

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to

>express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal

>clinic.

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months

>pregnant, a letter

>horn Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services

>board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an

>NHS hospital

>that the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is

>a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and

>sought independent medical opinion on the best course of action.

>All those consulted leaders in their fields & #8212;

>believed the

>Bastians should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is

>injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease & #8212; an

>alternative the

>family was perfectly prepared to try.

>But, within hours of the baby & #8217;s birth at home,

>legal

>proceedings began and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>The police who turned up at the Bastians & #8217; home

>told Albrecht

>that, if he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he

>could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he

>says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne

>Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>As soon as the news of the court order was received,

>a doctor

>took the baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht

>and

>Albrecht & #8217;s mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going

>through everything

>that had happened and thinking, & #8216;Where did I go wrong? & #8217; "

>says Albrecht.

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the

>authority & #8217;s

>drastic measures. " We weren & #8217;t prepared to accept the

>parents & #8217; refusal, " he says.

> " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever they

>like with a

>child. They are not allowed to put their children at an unacceptably

>high risks

>and that & #8217;s what we feel the Bastians were doing. "

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority & #8217;s

>legal actions

>amounted to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician

>and editor

>of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the

>social

>services applied for permission to give their baby the first booster

>shot the

>following month.

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to

>

>Benedikt & #8217;s, the authority concluded that the timing of the rash

>was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians

>present

>their baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at

>his wits & #8217;

>end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee with

>the

>child.

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed

>that

>Caecilia had remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor

>contended that

>there was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health

>authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the

>fourth jab & #8212; but they wouldn & #8217;t enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court

>order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first time, the Bastians

>were free to

>come and go as they pleased.

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat

>an animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says

>Alhrecht. " I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat an animal, without the farmer & #8217;s consent and

>if there were the

>slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect from an

>adverse

>reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat that

>treatment. "

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy

>may have

>been part of his family & #8217;s undoing.

> " That & #8217;s not the way people here in Northern

>Ireland get their

>views across. "

>He questions whether this episode would have happened

>if he had

>been wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the

>world and, if

>I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal aid and I

>would have

>been better able to fight them. "

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any

>day now.

>Her parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life & #8217;s

>rocky road but,

>for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be laid

>to

>rest.

>[<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >Vaccination</A>] & nbsp; [<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/ploys.html " >Vaccine

>ploys</A>] & nbsp; <A

>href= " http://www.whale.to " >www.whale.to</A>

></DIV></BODY></HTML>

>

><hr>

>

><!-- begin

February 3, 2000

In a message dated 2/3/2000 8:40:15 PM Central Standard Time,

lucasjt@... writes:

<< prob. due to the vit. K >>

Absolutely due to the vitamin k -- your story sounds like mine, except I add

a little twist... One of the main, and most usual reactions to vitamin k is

jaundice. Of course, they won't tell you this. I knew because with my 1st

our doctor told us it was unecessary, so I put it specifically in my birth

plan as a no-go. However, the nurses somehow never got my birth plan. She

got the shot, she got jaundiced, and to top it off, while at a bili level of

15 on day 4, they gave her a hep B shot which I didn't even know of and

without my permission, and it shut her down completely. Her bili shot up to

25, and we were back into emergency the next evening. To top it off, it was

almost 12 hours before I was notified of the test results -- and I had to get

them, they didn't call me. Imagine my horror. And it was January, and it

was below zero... So for 3 weeks AFTER she came out of the children's

hospital, I was truckin' my butt by begging rides off of neighbors down to

the hospital with a brand new baby at 7am every day to get a bili test done.

Believe me, I researched it. And, although I had already had my doubts, that

was the straw that convinced me I didn't need doctors, nor most nurses. The

whole thing and every stupid thing they did is still so fresh in my mind. I

remember exactly how helpless and sorrowful and angry I felt - I remember

almost every conversation and shouting match and the face of the person I had

it with.

February 3, 2000

What do they say the purpose is for giving newborns vit K and antibiotics?

Sounds crazy! Is there a link or something providing more info on the

topic? I remember them giving my daughter antibiotics because she was a

preemie, but not that she had an infection of a sort, she didn't... and I

didn't approve and asked them to remove the hep block. They removed it but

justified their administration of antibiotics to her by saying she had

septicemia, which she didn't.

Re: Our health police ordeal

>From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

>

>If Americans think that they are safe from this kind of brutality,

>consider that antibiotic and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

>newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

>after it is administered.

>

>If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

>services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

>

>gary

>

>On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:23:20 -0000 " " <whale@...>

>writes:

>>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>>

>>From: " " <whale@...>

>>

>>Our health police ordeal

>>

>>Our health police ordeal

>>

>>The law ordered a baby to be immunised against hepatitis but, asks

>> , did the doctors take the case too far?

>>

>>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>>

>>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house which echoes to the

>>sound of laughter.

>>

>>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of lush land and the

>>house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that can be

>>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>>piano, well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>>clock,.

>>

>>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring family. Yet

>>within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police, social

>>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>>Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their

>>baby to hospital to have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>>

>>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become probably the lust

>>case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK. Dr

>>Gordon , Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow

>>University, comments that it was " a story of medical arrogance,

>>leading to misuse of the law and of the failure of Government

>>ministers to uphold policy that all childhood vaccinations are to be

>>given only with parental consent " .

>>

>>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate Caecilia after

>>their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in 1993.

>>

>>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms had to be tied to

>>his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>>

>>The couple couldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause, but doctors

>>could not prove it wasn't.

>>

>>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to express their

>>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>>ante-natal clinic.

>>

>>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months pregnant, a letter horn

>>Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services board,

>>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>>

>>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an NHS hospital that

>>the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is a

>>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>>textbooks and sought independent medical opinion on the best course of

>>action.

>>

>>All those consulted leaders in their fields - believed the Bastians

>>should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is injected

>>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease - an

>>alternative the family was perfectly prepared to try.

>>

>>But, within hours of the baby's birth at home, legal proceedings began

>>and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>>

>>The police who turned up at the Bastians' home told Albrecht that, if

>>he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he could he

>>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>>hepatitis.

>>

>> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he says. To avoid

>>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>>go to Erne Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>>

>>As soon as the news of the court order was received, a doctor took the

>>baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>>immunoglobulin.

>>

>>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht and Albrecht's

>>mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going through everything

>>that had happened and thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' " says

>>Albrecht.

>>

>>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the authority's drastic

>>measures. " We weren't prepared to accept the parents' refusal, " he

>>says. " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever

>>they like with a child. They are not allowed to put their children at

>>an unacceptably high risks and that's what we feel the Bastians were

>>doing. "

>>

>>Over the ensuing months, the health authority's legal actions amounted

>>to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician and

>>editor of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>>family " .

>>

>>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the social services

>>applied for permission to give their baby the first booster shot the

>>following month.

>>

>>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to Benedikt's, the

>>authority concluded that the timing of the rash was purely

>>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>>

>>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians present their

>>baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at his

>>wits' end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee

>>with the child.

>>

>>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed that Caecilia had

>>remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor contended that there

>>was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health authority

>>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>>have the fourth jab - but they wouldn't enforce it. On June 27, the

>>Wardship of Court order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first

>>time, the Bastians were free to come and go as they pleased.

>>

>> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I wouldn't treat an

>>animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says Alhrecht.

>> " I wouldn't treat an animal, without the farmer's consent and if there

>>were the slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect

>>from an adverse reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat

>>that treatment. "

>>

>>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy may have been

>>part of his family's undoing.

>>

>> " That's not the way people here in Northern Ireland get their views

>>across. "

>>

>>He questions whether this episode would have happened if he had been

>>wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the world

>>and, if I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal

>>aid and I would have been better able to fight them. "

>>

>>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any day now. Her

>>parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life's rocky road

>>but, for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be

>>laid to rest.

>>

>>[Vaccination] [Vaccine ploys]

>>

>> www.whale.to

>>

>>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>>Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>>

>><tt>From:</tt> <tt>

>> & quot; & quot; & lt;whale@... & gt;</tt>

>>

>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " >

>><HTML><HEAD>

>><META content= " text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 " http-equiv=Content-Type>

>><META content= " MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000 " name=GENERATOR>

>><STYLE></STYLE>

>></HEAD>

>><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

>><DIV>

>><A

>>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/health_police.html " >Our health

>>police

>>ordeal</A></DIV>

>><DIV>

>>Our health police

>>ordeal

>>The law ordered a baby to be

>>immunised against

>>hepatitis but, asks , did the doctors take the case too

>>far?

>>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house

>>which echoes

>>to the sound of laughter.

>>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of

>>lush land

>>and the house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that

>>can be

>>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>>piano,

>>well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>>clock,.

>>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring

>>family.

>>Yet within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police,

>>social

>>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>>Fermanagh,

>>Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their baby to

>>hospital to

>>have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become

>>probably the

>>lust case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK.

>>Dr Gordon

>>, Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow University,

>>comments

>>that it was " a story of medical arrogance, leading to misuse of the

>>law and of

>>the failure of Government ministers to uphold policy that all

>>childhood

>>vaccinations are to be given only with parental consent " .

>>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate

>>Caecilia

>>after their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in

>>1993.

>>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms

>>had to be

>>tied to his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>>The couple couldn & #8217;t prove that the vaccine was

>>the cause, but

>>doctors could not prove it wasn & #8217;t.

>>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to

>>express their

>>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>>ante-natal

>>clinic.

>>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months

>>pregnant, a letter

>>horn Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services

>>board,

>>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an

>>NHS hospital

>>that the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is

>>a

>>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>>textbooks and

>>sought independent medical opinion on the best course of action.

>>All those consulted leaders in their fields & #8212;

>>believed the

>>Bastians should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is

>>injected

>>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease & #8212; an

>>alternative the

>>family was perfectly prepared to try.

>>But, within hours of the baby & #8217;s birth at home,

>>legal

>>proceedings began and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>>The police who turned up at the Bastians & #8217; home

>>told Albrecht

>>that, if he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he

>>could he

>>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>>hepatitis.

>> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he

>>says. To avoid

>>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>>go to Erne

>>Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>>As soon as the news of the court order was received,

>>a doctor

>>took the baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>>immunoglobulin.

>>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht

>>and

>>Albrecht & #8217;s mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going

>>through everything

>>that had happened and thinking, & #8216;Where did I go wrong? & #8217; "

>>says Albrecht.

>>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the

>>authority & #8217;s

>>drastic measures. " We weren & #8217;t prepared to accept the

>>parents & #8217; refusal, " he says.

>> " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever they

>>like with a

>>child. They are not allowed to put their children at an unacceptably

>>high risks

>>and that & #8217;s what we feel the Bastians were doing. "

>>Over the ensuing months, the health authority & #8217;s

>>legal actions

>>amounted to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician

>>and editor

>>of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>>family " .

>>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the

>>social

>>services applied for permission to give their baby the first booster

>>shot the

>>following month.

>>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to

>>

>>Benedikt & #8217;s, the authority concluded that the timing of the rash

>>was purely

>>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians

>>present

>>their baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at

>>his wits & #8217;

>>end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee with

>>the

>>child.

>>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed

>>that

>>Caecilia had remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor

>>contended that

>>there was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health

>>authority

>>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>>have the

>>fourth jab & #8212; but they wouldn & #8217;t enforce it. On June 27, the

>>Wardship of Court

>>order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first time, the Bastians

>>were free to

>>come and go as they pleased.

>> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I

>>wouldn & #8217;t treat

>>an animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says

>>Alhrecht. " I

>>wouldn & #8217;t treat an animal, without the farmer & #8217;s consent and

>>if there were the

>>slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect from an

>>adverse

>>reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat that

>>treatment. "

>>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy

>>may have

>>been part of his family & #8217;s undoing.

>> " That & #8217;s not the way people here in Northern

>>Ireland get their

>>views across. "

>>He questions whether this episode would have happened

>>if he had

>>been wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the

>>world and, if

>>I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal aid and I

>>would have

>>been better able to fight them. "

>>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any

>>day now.

>>Her parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life & #8217;s

>>rocky road but,

>>for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be laid

>>to

>>rest.

>>[<A

>>href= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >Vaccination</A>] & nbsp; [<A

>>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/ploys.html " >Vaccine

>>ploys</A>] & nbsp; <A

>>href= " http://www.whale.to " >www.whale.to</A>

>></DIV></BODY></HTML>

>>

>><hr>

>>

>><!-- begin

February 3, 2000

In a message dated 2/3/00 12:54:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,

moonwillows@... writes:

<< I wonder if you can but that in a birth plan ahead of time??

>>

-

You CAN put it in your birth plan. Talk to your dr. about it. And we also

told the nurse ahead of time (my dh was in charge of this) that we did not

want them. Hardly even got a second glance from the nurse. Of course, I was

induced, so we didn't go to the hospital in a 'flurry'. But, you can

definately have it in your plan.

Teri

February 3, 2000

I think giving birth at home can be a wonderful experience, although I never had

the pleasure. However, I remember reading in the news about this couple in

Brooklyn, NY who gave birth at home to a premature baby, the state swooped in,

accused them of child neglect and took the baby away. But I think they know who

to target whereas they could get away with something so outrageous.

Re: Our health police ordeal

From: " Moseley " <juliam@...>

This is a great reason to have your baby at home with like-minded midwives,

like we did. These things were up to us according to our midwife, regardless of

the state.

Re: Our health police ordeal

From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

If Americans think that they are safe from this kind of brutality,

consider that antibiotic and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

after it is administered.

If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

gary

On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:23:20 -0000 " " <whale@...>

writes:

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

>From: " " <whale@...>

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>Our health police ordeal

>

>The law ordered a baby to be immunised against hepatitis but, asks

> , did the doctors take the case too far?

>

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house which echoes to the

>sound of laughter.

>

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of lush land and the

>house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano, well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring family. Yet

>within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police, social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their

>baby to hospital to have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become probably the lust

>case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK. Dr

>Gordon , Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow

>University, comments that it was " a story of medical arrogance,

>leading to misuse of the law and of the failure of Government

>ministers to uphold policy that all childhood vaccinations are to be

>given only with parental consent " .

>

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate Caecilia after

>their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in 1993.

>

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms had to be tied to

>his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>

>The couple couldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause, but doctors

>could not prove it wasn't.

>

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal clinic.

>

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months pregnant, a letter horn

>Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an NHS hospital that

>the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and sought independent medical opinion on the best course of

>action.

>

>All those consulted leaders in their fields - believed the Bastians

>should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease - an

>alternative the family was perfectly prepared to try.

>

>But, within hours of the baby's birth at home, legal proceedings began

>and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>

>The police who turned up at the Bastians' home told Albrecht that, if

>he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

>

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>

>As soon as the news of the court order was received, a doctor took the

>baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht and Albrecht's

>mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going through everything

>that had happened and thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' " says

>Albrecht.

>

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the authority's drastic

>measures. " We weren't prepared to accept the parents' refusal, " he

>says. " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever

>they like with a child. They are not allowed to put their children at

>an unacceptably high risks and that's what we feel the Bastians were

>doing. "

>

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority's legal actions amounted

>to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician and

>editor of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the social services

>applied for permission to give their baby the first booster shot the

>following month.

>

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to Benedikt's, the

>authority concluded that the timing of the rash was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians present their

>baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at his

>wits' end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee

>with the child.

>

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed that Caecilia had

>remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor contended that there

>was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the fourth jab - but they wouldn't enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first

>time, the Bastians were free to come and go as they pleased.

>

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I wouldn't treat an

>animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says Alhrecht.

> " I wouldn't treat an animal, without the farmer's consent and if there

>were the slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect

>from an adverse reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat

>that treatment. "

>

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy may have been

>part of his family's undoing.

>

> " That's not the way people here in Northern Ireland get their views

>across. "

>

>He questions whether this episode would have happened if he had been

>wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the world

>and, if I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal

>aid and I would have been better able to fight them. "

>

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any day now. Her

>parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life's rocky road

>but, for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be

>laid to rest.

>

>[Vaccination] [Vaccine ploys]

>

> www.whale.to

>

>------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

>Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>

><tt>From:</tt> <tt>

> & quot; & quot; & lt;whale@... & gt;</tt>

>

><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " >

><HTML><HEAD>

><META content= " text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 " http-equiv=Content-Type>

><META content= " MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000 " name=GENERATOR>

><STYLE></STYLE>

></HEAD>

><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

><DIV>

><A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/health_police.html " >Our health

>police

>ordeal</A></DIV>

><DIV>

>Our health police

>ordeal

>The law ordered a baby to be

>immunised against

>hepatitis but, asks , did the doctors take the case too

>far?

>Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

>Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house

>which echoes

>to the sound of laughter.

>They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of

>lush land

>and the house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that

>can be

>put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

>piano,

>well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

>clock,.

>Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring

>family.

>Yet within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police,

>social

>workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

>Fermanagh,

>Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their baby to

>hospital to

>have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

>And so began the ordeal of a family who had become

>probably the

>lust case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK.

>Dr Gordon

>, Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow University,

>comments

>that it was " a story of medical arrogance, leading to misuse of the

>law and of

>the failure of Government ministers to uphold policy that all

>childhood

>vaccinations are to be given only with parental consent " .

>The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate

>Caecilia

>after their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in

>1993.

>He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms

>had to be

>tied to his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

>The couple couldn & #8217;t prove that the vaccine was

>the cause, but

>doctors could not prove it wasn & #8217;t.

>The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to

>express their

>misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

>ante-natal

>clinic.

>Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months

>pregnant, a letter

>horn Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services

>board,

>threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

>Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an

>NHS hospital

>that the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is

>a

>paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

>textbooks and

>sought independent medical opinion on the best course of action.

>All those consulted leaders in their fields & #8212;

>believed the

>Bastians should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is

>injected

>into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

>immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease & #8212; an

>alternative the

>family was perfectly prepared to try.

>But, within hours of the baby & #8217;s birth at home,

>legal

>proceedings began and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

>The police who turned up at the Bastians & #8217; home

>told Albrecht

>that, if he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he

>could he

>charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

>hepatitis.

> " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he

>says. To avoid

>further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

>go to Erne

>Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

>As soon as the news of the court order was received,

>a doctor

>took the baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

>immunoglobulin.

>That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht

>and

>Albrecht & #8217;s mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going

>through everything

>that had happened and thinking, & #8216;Where did I go wrong? & #8217; "

>says Albrecht.

>Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the

>authority & #8217;s

>drastic measures. " We weren & #8217;t prepared to accept the

>parents & #8217; refusal, " he says.

> " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever they

>like with a

>child. They are not allowed to put their children at an unacceptably

>high risks

>and that & #8217;s what we feel the Bastians were doing. "

>Over the ensuing months, the health authority & #8217;s

>legal actions

>amounted to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician

>and editor

>of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

>family " .

>The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the

>social

>services applied for permission to give their baby the first booster

>shot the

>following month.

>WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to

>

>Benedikt & #8217;s, the authority concluded that the timing of the rash

>was purely

>coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

>By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians

>present

>their baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at

>his wits & #8217;

>end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee with

>the

>child.

>At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed

>that

>Caecilia had remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor

>contended that

>there was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health

>authority

>responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

>have the

>fourth jab & #8212; but they wouldn & #8217;t enforce it. On June 27, the

>Wardship of Court

>order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first time, the Bastians

>were free to

>come and go as they pleased.

> " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat

>an animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says

>Alhrecht. " I

>wouldn & #8217;t treat an animal, without the farmer & #8217;s consent and

>if there were the

>slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect from an

>adverse

>reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat that

>treatment. "

>He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy

>may have

>been part of his family & #8217;s undoing.

> " That & #8217;s not the way people here in Northern

>Ireland get their

>views across. "

>He questions whether this episode would have happened

>if he had

>been wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the

>world and, if

>I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal aid and I

>would have

>been better able to fight them. "

>Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any

>day now.

>Her parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life & #8217;s

>rocky road but,

>for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be laid

>to

>rest.

>[<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >Vaccination</A>] & nbsp; [<A

>href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/ploys.html " >Vaccine

>ploys</A>] & nbsp; <A

>href= " http://www.whale.to " >www.whale.to</A>

></DIV></BODY></HTML>

>

><hr>

>

><!-- begin

February 3, 2000

In a message dated 2/3/00 9:27:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,

queenearth@... writes:

<< What do they say the purpose is for giving newborns vit K and antibiotics?

>>

Vitamin K is given to help the blood clot. A babies blood does not clot

naturally until they are 7 days old, but unless trauma has occured during

delivery, there is no reason a baby needs it. To us, there was a reason why

our blood doesn't clot for the first 7 days, and we weren't going to use our

'brains' to think we knew better and over ride nature. We waited until after

the 7days to circumcise, and had no problems.

As for antibiotics, I don't know. 's only had 1 mild cold at 4

weeks...he is now 8 months old, and not even 1 ear infection.

Teri

February 3, 2000

I guess trauma to the skull is what she was worried about. She was 9 lbs 1

oz. and wedged in pretty tight. It was a difficult birth. It wasn't

something we had researched well and after 3 days of labor, only 3 hours of

rest, 3 hours of pushing, I was at the " trusting " phase where whatever she

said was the bible since she got this baby out of me. She did become

slightly jaundiced after and had to go out in below zero temps for days to

keep getting her heel pricked--prob. due to the vit. K in my opinion. I

will definately research it more for this coming baby!

Re: Our health police ordeal

> From: C8743@...

>

> In a message dated 2/3/2000 4:05:56 PM Central Standard Time,

> lucasjt@... writes:

>

> << we did the vit. K and

> the urging of our midwife because she had been stuck in the canal so long

> and may have had trauma >>

> I am interested to know how Vitamin K deficiency would be relevant -- was

> there a chance she would be bleeding internally?

>

> ---------------------------

February 4, 2000

Correction:

Now I'm told that only NYS passed these regs.

.. . . more to come.

glk

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:30:37 -0500 L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

writes:

>From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

>

>Teri,

>

>I found out recently, and will need more time to get all the details.

>Apparently, several states recently passed the regulations making it

>mandatory. I'm told that hospitals were experiencing too many refusals

>from parents. Perhaps your experience occurred before the new

>mandates.

>

>When I learn more, I'll pass it along.

>gary

>

>On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:52:32 EST Knight525@... writes:

>>From: Knight525@...

>>

>>In a message dated 2/3/00 7:48:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,

>>gk-cfic@...

>>writes:

>>

>><< and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

>> newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before

>>or

>> after it is administered.

>>

>> If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child

>protection

>> services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody. >>

>>

>>\we rejected the Vitamin K shot, Hep B and eye salve in June when

>> was

>>born. We received no flack at all from the hospital, just 'are you

>>sure?',

>>then sign here. In fact, the asst. at our ob's office agreed with us

>

>>that

>>they weren't necessary, and she said it's no big deal to deny them.

>>We

>>didn't have a problem.

>>

>>Teri

>>

>>---------------------------

February 4, 2000

It looks like I jumped the gun. The mandate appears to be only in NYS.

But like I said, I'll find out more before I say anything more. Be

patient. Thanks.

gary

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:09:52 EST C8743@... writes:

>From: C8743@...

>

>In a message dated 2/3/2000 9:48:45 AM Central Standard Time,

>gk-cfic@... writes:

>

><< If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child

>protection

> services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

> >>

>I had no problems, it was in my birth plan -- and, in fact, the nurse

>assigned to me spend several hours asking me questions and talking

>about the

>issues of vaccines. Granted, she probably is unusual (very, in my

>experience), but the hospital itself kept their mouths shut. Now

>there are

>other problems problems I had....

>

>---------------------------

February 4, 2000

Apparently, " you can have it your way " at Macs (old advertising

slogan) when ordering a hamburger. But not when it come to declining

harmful drugs for your baby. What's wrong with this picture??!!

Note: I believe it may only be NYS that has mandated this. Will confirm

as soon as I find out.

gary

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:49:47 -0800 " Moonwillow "

<moonwillows@...> writes:

>From: " Moonwillow " <moonwillows@...>

>

>><< and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

>> newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before

>or

>> after it is administered.

>

> We had planned to not have the eye stuff and shots at the hospital

>but they did it so fast my husband didnt have time to even say stop.

>My son had the typical reaction I had read about and feared he would

>have. His eyes were glued shut for the first 3 weeks of his life

>everytime he would wake up from sleeping. And they gave us some

>antibiotic cream that seemed to help for a bit but then made it all

>gunky again.

>

>Sure made me mad that I didnt get a chance to say no and I forgot once

>we go to the hopital to say I didnt want that for our child. I wonder

>if you can but that in a birth plan ahead of time??

>

>------------------------------------------------------------

>DrakMail - Powered by BigMailBox.com - http://www.bigmailbox.com

>

>---------------------------

February 4, 2000

Washington state requires the eye ointment for all newborns, but most hospitals

will let you delay it until one or even two hours after birth and many midwives

will unofficially let you waive the stuff.

Vitamin K is subject to informed consent; you can request oral instead of

injected, or you can decline it altogether. We had our midwife give our baby

oral vitamin K. Our midwife's take on jaundice is that getting a lot of

colostrum in them, and therefore helping speed their own body processes to

eliminate the meconium, will prevent it, which certainly was true with our

daughter, who had five meconium diapers in her first 22 hours and no noticeable

jaundice at all.

Our baby was born 01/13/00, so I am *sure* our information, at least for

Washington, is current. :-)

Alan 02/11/84

Joanne Natasha 01/13/00 home waterbirth!

http://www.nwlink.com/~juliam/baby.html

http://www.y2kbabies.net/january/announcements/bchostjewel.html

Re: Our health police ordeal

From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

Correction:

Now I'm told that only NYS passed these regs.

. . . more to come.

glk

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:30:37 -0500 L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

writes:

>From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

>

>Teri,

>

>I found out recently, and will need more time to get all the details.

>Apparently, several states recently passed the regulations making it

>mandatory. I'm told that hospitals were experiencing too many refusals

>from parents. Perhaps your experience occurred before the new

>mandates.

>

>When I learn more, I'll pass it along.

>gary

>

>On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:52:32 EST Knight525@... writes:

>>From: Knight525@...

>>

>>In a message dated 2/3/00 7:48:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,

>>gk-cfic@...

>>writes:

>>

>><< and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

>> newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before

>>or

>> after it is administered.

>>

>> If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child

>protection

>> services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody. >>

>>

>>\we rejected the Vitamin K shot, Hep B and eye salve in June when

>> was

>>born. We received no flack at all from the hospital, just 'are you

>>sure?',

>>then sign here. In fact, the asst. at our ob's office agreed with us

>

>>that

>>they weren't necessary, and she said it's no big deal to deny them.

>>We

>>didn't have a problem.

>>

>>Teri

>>

>>---------------------------

February 6, 2000

Hi there,

I am a little behind after being away for four days, but I know in Canada,

we have the option of oral vit K instead of an injection. However, I also

know that ALL laws can be challenged and all rules can be changed. I would

look for verification on the " mandatory " status on these. My hospital told

me they were too.. but that is just their policy and they have no authority

to enforce it and use it as scare tactics.

I am not saying you are wrong. I just want to encourage people to do more

investigating before falling victims to fear.

Sherri-Lee

Re: Our health police ordeal

> From: L Krasner <gk-cfic@...>

>

> If Americans think that they are safe from this kind of brutality,

> consider that antibiotic and Vit K injections are now mandatory for all

> newborns. And Hospitals do't even have to notify the parents before or

> after it is administered.

>

> If parents protest, they can expect a visit from the child protection

> services and a summons to appear in court to determine custody.

>

> gary

>

> On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:23:20 -0000 " " <whale@...>

> writes:

> >------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> >

> >From: " " <whale@...>

> >

> >Our health police ordeal

> >

> >Our health police ordeal

> >

> >The law ordered a baby to be immunised against hepatitis but, asks

> > , did the doctors take the case too far?

> >

> >Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

> >

> >Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house which echoes to the

> >sound of laughter.

> >

> >They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of lush land and the

> >house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that can be

> >put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

> >piano, well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

> >clock,.

> >

> >Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring family. Yet

> >within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police, social

> >workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

> >Fermanagh, Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their

> >baby to hospital to have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

> >

> >And so began the ordeal of a family who had become probably the lust

> >case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK. Dr

> >Gordon , Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow

> >University, comments that it was " a story of medical arrogance,

> >leading to misuse of the law and of the failure of Government

> >ministers to uphold policy that all childhood vaccinations are to be

> >given only with parental consent " .

> >

> >The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate Caecilia after

> >their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in 1993.

> >

> >He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms had to be tied to

> >his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

> >

> >The couple couldn't prove that the vaccine was the cause, but doctors

> >could not prove it wasn't.

> >

> >The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to express their

> >misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

> >ante-natal clinic.

> >

> >Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months pregnant, a letter horn

> >Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services board,

> >threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

> >

> >Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an NHS hospital that

> >the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is a

> >paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

> >textbooks and sought independent medical opinion on the best course of

> >action.

> >

> >All those consulted leaders in their fields - believed the Bastians

> >should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is injected

> >into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

> >immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease - an

> >alternative the family was perfectly prepared to try.

> >

> >But, within hours of the baby's birth at home, legal proceedings began

> >and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

> >

> >The police who turned up at the Bastians' home told Albrecht that, if

> >he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he could he

> >charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

> >hepatitis.

> >

> > " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he says. To avoid

> >further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

> >go to Erne Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

> >

> >As soon as the news of the court order was received, a doctor took the

> >baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

> >immunoglobulin.

> >

> >That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht and Albrecht's

> >mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going through everything

> >that had happened and thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' " says

> >Albrecht.

> >

> >Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the authority's drastic

> >measures. " We weren't prepared to accept the parents' refusal, " he

> >says. " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever

> >they like with a child. They are not allowed to put their children at

> >an unacceptably high risks and that's what we feel the Bastians were

> >doing. "

> >

> >Over the ensuing months, the health authority's legal actions amounted

> >to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician and

> >editor of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

> >family " .

> >

> >The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the social services

> >applied for permission to give their baby the first booster shot the

> >following month.

> >

> >WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to Benedikt's, the

> >authority concluded that the timing of the rash was purely

> >coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

> >

> >By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians present their

> >baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at his

> >wits' end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee

> >with the child.

> >

> >At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed that Caecilia had

> >remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor contended that there

> >was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health authority

> >responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

> >have the fourth jab - but they wouldn't enforce it. On June 27, the

> >Wardship of Court order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first

> >time, the Bastians were free to come and go as they pleased.

> >

> > " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I wouldn't treat an

> >animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says Alhrecht.

> > " I wouldn't treat an animal, without the farmer's consent and if there

> >were the slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect

> >from an adverse reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat

> >that treatment. "

> >

> >He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy may have been

> >part of his family's undoing.

> >

> > " That's not the way people here in Northern Ireland get their views

> >across. "

> >

> >He questions whether this episode would have happened if he had been

> >wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the world

> >and, if I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal

> >aid and I would have been better able to fight them. "

> >

> >Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any day now. Her

> >parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life's rocky road

> >but, for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be

> >laid to rest.

> >

> >[Vaccination] [Vaccine ploys]

> >

> > www.whale.to

> >

> >------=_NextPart_000_0025_01BF6CFA.8FEF1F20

> >Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> >

> ><tt>From:</tt> <tt>

> > & quot; & quot; & lt;whale@... & gt;</tt>

> >

> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN " >

> ><HTML><HEAD>

> ><META content= " text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 " http-equiv=Content-Type>

> ><META content= " MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000 " name=GENERATOR>

> ><STYLE></STYLE>

> ></HEAD>

> ><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>

> ><DIV>

> ><A

> >href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/health_police.html " >Our health

> >police

> >ordeal</A></DIV>

> ><DIV>

> >Our health police

> >ordeal

> >The law ordered a baby to be

> >immunised against

> >hepatitis but, asks , did the doctors take the case too

> >far?

> >Daily Express Aug 1, 1996

> >Home is a four-bedroom, turn of the century house

> >which echoes

> >to the sound of laughter.

> >They keep goats, chickens and ducks on 17 acres of

> >lush land

> >and the house is stuffed with old prints and the sort of antiques that

> >can be

> >put to good use in a growing family----a well-thumped baby grand

> >piano,

> >well-thumbed antiquarian books and a brass-faced grandfather

> >clock,.

> >Here are the hallmarks of a solid, secure and caring

> >family.

> >Yet within hours of the birth of their second child, armed police,

> >social

> >workers and three ambulance men had arrived at their home in County

> >Fermanagh,

> >Northern Ireland, to announce that they were taking their baby to

> >hospital to

> >have her vaccinated against hepatitis B.

> >And so began the ordeal of a family who had become

> >probably the

> >lust case of physical enforcement of immunisation anywhere in the UK.

> >Dr Gordon

> >, Emeritus Professor of Public Health at Glasgow University,

> >comments

> >that it was " a story of medical arrogance, leading to misuse of the

> >law and of

> >the failure of Government ministers to uphold policy that all

> >childhood

> >vaccinations are to be given only with parental consent " .

> >The Bastians had agonised about whether to vaccinate

> >Caecilia

> >after their experience with immunising their first born, Benedikt, in

> >1993.

> >He broke out in dermatitis so severe that his arms

> >had to be

> >tied to his sides to stop him clawing at the itchy sores.

> >The couple couldn & #8217;t prove that the vaccine was

> >the cause, but

> >doctors could not prove it wasn & #8217;t.

> >The Bastians feel that their first mistake was to

> >express their

> >misgivings about immunising their expected child to the doctor at the

> >ante-natal

> >clinic.

> >Many weeks later, when Nita was seven months

> >pregnant, a letter

> >horn Dr son. of the Western Health and Social Services

> >board,

> >threatened court action if they withheld consent for the vaccine.

> >Nita was so terrified of delivering the baby in an

> >NHS hospital

> >that the couple planned for a home delivery. Albrecht, whose mother is

> >a

> >paediatrician with 20 years experience, swotted up on medical

> >textbooks and

> >sought independent medical opinion on the best course of action.

> >All those consulted leaders in their fields & #8212;

> >believed the

> >Bastians should avoid active immunisation, where the virus itself is

> >injected

> >into the body to stimulate resistance. They recommended a course of

> >immnunoglobulin antibodies to ward off the onset of disease & #8212; an

> >alternative the

> >family was perfectly prepared to try.

> >But, within hours of the baby & #8217;s birth at home,

> >legal

> >proceedings began and Caecilia was made a ward of court.

> >The police who turned up at the Bastians & #8217; home

> >told Albrecht

> >that, if he attempted to prevent the vaccination from being given, he

> >could he

> >charged with manslaughier later in life if the child died from

> >hepatitis.

> > " We were made to feel like common criminals, " he

> >says. To avoid

> >further distress, Albrecht agreed that he and his wife and baby would

> >go to Erne

> >Hospital, Enniskillen for the vaccination.

> >As soon as the news of the court order was received,

> >a doctor

> >took the baby from her weeping mother and injected the vaccine and

> >immunoglobulin.

> >That evening in the Bastian household, Nita, Albrecht

> >and

> >Albrecht & #8217;s mother sat round the kitchen table. " I kept going

> >through everything

> >that had happened and thinking, & #8216;Where did I go wrong? & #8217; "

> >says Albrecht.

> >Even now, Dr son makes no excuses for the

> >authority & #8217;s

> >drastic measures. " We weren & #8217;t prepared to accept the

> >parents & #8217; refusal, " he says.

> > " In our society, parents do not have the right to do whatever they

> >like with a

> >child. They are not allowed to put their children at an unacceptably

> >high risks

> >and that & #8217;s what we feel the Bastians were doing. "

> >Over the ensuing months, the health authority & #8217;s

> >legal actions

> >amounted to what, in the opinion of Dr Nicholson, a physician

> >and editor

> >of The Bulletin Of Medical Ethics, was " a serious abuse of the

> >family " .

> >The Bastians were summoned to the High Court when the

> >social

> >services applied for permission to give their baby the first booster

> >shot the

> >following month.

> >WHEN Caecilia then broke out with a rash identical to

> >

> >Benedikt & #8217;s, the authority concluded that the timing of the rash

> >was purely

> >coincidental and had nothing to do with the jab.

> >By the time the authority demanded that the Bastians

> >present

> >their baby for the second booster (the third vaccine), Albrecht was at

> >his wits & #8217;

> >end. He had to sign an assurance that the family would not flee with

> >the

> >child.

> >At the beginning of this year, a blood test showed

> >that

> >Caecilia had remarkable resistance to hepatitis B and a doctor

> >contended that

> >there was little point in inflicting a fourth shot. The health

> >authority

> >responded by telling the Bastians that they would still like her to

> >have the

> >fourth jab & #8212; but they wouldn & #8217;t enforce it. On June 27, the

> >Wardship of Court

> >order on Caecilia was lifted and, for the first time, the Bastians

> >were free to

> >come and go as they pleased.

> > " As a vetinary surgeon, all I can say is that I

> >wouldn & #8217;t treat

> >an animal the way the Western Health Board is treated us, " says

> >Alhrecht. " I

> >wouldn & #8217;t treat an animal, without the farmer & #8217;s consent and

> >if there were the

> >slightest supicion that an animal would suffer a side-effect from an

> >adverse

> >reaction from a treatment or drug, I would not repeat that

> >treatment. "

> >He feels that his politeness, his old world courtesy

> >may have

> >been part of his family & #8217;s undoing.

> > " That & #8217;s not the way people here in Northern

> >Ireland get their

> >views across. "

> >He questions whether this episode would have happened

> >if he had

> >been wealthy. " I would have had experts flown in from all over the

> >world and, if

> >I had been poor enough, I would have been entitled to legal aid and I

> >would have

> >been better able to fight them. "

> >Little Caecilia will take her first steps alone any

> >day now.

> >Her parents will eventually be able to tell her tales of life & #8217;s

> >rocky road but,

> >for now, the promise of the future beckons and the past must be laid

> >to

> >rest.

> >[<A

> >href= " http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html " >Vaccination</A>] & nbsp; [<A

> >href= " http://www.whale.to/Vaccines/ploys.html " >Vaccine

> >ploys</A>] & nbsp; <A

> >href= " http://www.whale.to " >www.whale.to</A>

> ></DIV></BODY></HTML>

> >

> ><hr>

> >

> ><!-- begin

February 7, 2000

In a message dated 2/7/2000 1:46:37 AM Central Standard Time,

slp@... writes:

<< I am a little behind after being away for four days, but I know in Canada,

we have the option of oral vit K instead of an injection. However, I also

know that ALL laws can be challenged and all rules can be changed. I would

look for verification on the " mandatory " status on these. My hospital told

me they were too.. but that is just their policy and they have no authority

to enforce it and use it as scare tactics.

I am not saying you are wrong. I just want to encourage people to do more

investigating before falling victims to fear.

>>

It is different by state. In ourse, Vitamin K is mandatory AND a standard

procedure, however, there is no penalty for refusal, as it falls under the

" personal excemption " clause of the statutes (unlike newborn screening). Any

time a procedure is " standard " whether it is mandatory by law or not, the

hospital has the right to perform such procedure, UNLESS the parents openly

object and sign a waiver that they have done so. If the parents say nothing

it is *implied* consent -- so it is up to the parents to be keenly aware of

every little possible happening, and prepare ahead.

when my daughter was born I thought I had everything covered. I did not. At

that time, just prior to her birth, they made Hep B a mandatory shot. I knew

nothing about it. It was not in my birth plan (they claim they never

received it anyway), and she got the shot without my consent. She reacted -

violently and 24 hours after being released we found ourselves in emergency.

Were they at fault? No. They performed a standard procedure which the State

Health Dept had mandated, according to their opinion there was no indication

that she should not receive the shot. So there 'ya go.

Sign In

Re: [Media] Our health police ordeal

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