Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 In a message dated 11/12/1999 12:41:55 PM Central Standard Time, momacat@... writes: << The only problem I have with the sale of cow colostrum is what the baby cows will be missing if the colostrum is bottled and sold. A female only produces colostrum for a short period of time after the birth her baby. It is full of very important antibodies and nutrients for the newborns. I find it very disturbing that the baby cow is not getting what is rightfully theirs in order to put a profit in their owners pocket. >> This is very incorrect thinking. By your thinking, it would be very, very wrong for a mother to consider tandem nursing her children... because one or both would not be receiving what they " needed " . This is not true, in fact the opposite IS TRUE. The more the breasts ae stimulated, the more the milk or colostrum is produced. You need to get the information from New Life as to how it is collected, and educate yourself on this product before you start making statements like the above. It doesn't benefit anyone, and could hurt some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 We bought colostrum for our daughter for her eczema but it just made it worse because of the milk properties in it. It is reportedly wonderful stuff for many things but you MUST be sure to get the right kind. Otherwise you will just be wasting your money. Many companies use heat in the process and destroy many properties. From all the research I did New Life brand is the best to purchase. They use pasture fed cows from New Zealand I think. Anyway, you can do a search for New Life Colostrum and you will find out all the info. We even have a bottle that was just barely used if you would be interested. Email me privately and we will work out something. I think Carol gives colostrum to her son. Maybe she will have more to say on this. Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented Hannah http://home.clarksville.com/~dth Colostrum!!!!! > From: rpugh@... > > Hello everyone, > > Has anyone ever heard of Colostrum?? I found this last night and I think everyone will be very interested in this....This is a direct quote from the book Colostrum: Life's First Food The WHITE GOLD Discovery by Bernard Jensen, Ph.D. > > " In the 1950's and 1960's, Dr. Albert Sabin, who developed a polio vaccine, claimed he had found antipolio virus antibodies in cow colostrum, even though cows were not known to get polio. When used by humans, the colostrum protected them from getting polio. > > My family is going to start using this product this weekend. Not only because of the quote abouve but because of the many other things this product does for the human body. You can buy it from your local health food store. I really think this is something everyone should do some major research in. Let me know if anyone else has found something else interesting about Colostrum or if they are using it. > > at rpugh@... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 The only problem I have with the sale of cow colostrum is what the baby cows will be missing if the colostrum is bottled and sold. A female only produces colostrum for a short period of time after the birth her baby. It is full of very important antibodies and nutrients for the newborns. I find it very disturbing that the baby cow is not getting what is rightfully theirs in order to put a profit in their owners pocket. Vollweiler From: rpugh@... Hello everyone, Has anyone ever heard of Colostrum?? I found this last night and I think everyone will be very interested in this....This is a direct quote from the book Colostrum: Life's First Food The WHITE GOLD Discovery by Bernard Jensen, Ph.D. " In the 1950's and 1960's, Dr. Albert Sabin, who developed a polio vaccine, claimed he had found antipolio virus antibodies in cow colostrum, even though cows were not known to get polio. When used by humans, the colostrum protected them from getting polio. My family is going to start using this product this weekend. Not only because of the quote abouve but because of the many other things this product does for the human body. You can buy it from your local health food store. I really think this is something everyone should do some major research in. Let me know if anyone else has found something else interesting about Colostrum or if they are using it. at rpugh@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 Vollweiler wrote: > From: " Vollweiler " <momacat@...> > > The only problem I have with the sale of cow colostrum is what the baby cows > will be missing if the colostrum is bottled and sold. A female only produces > colostrum for a short period of time after the birth her baby. It is full of > very important antibodies and nutrients for the newborns. I find it very > disturbing that the baby cow is not getting what is rightfully theirs in > order to put a profit in their owners pocket. > I was thinking the same thing. <<This is very incorrect thinking. By your thinking, it would be very, very wrong for a mother to consider tandem nursing her children... because one or both would not be receiving what they " needed " . >> I don't understand this analogy at all, a cow is not tandem nursing, it's colostrum is being harvested for profit. <<<< You need to get the information from New Life as to how it is collected, and educate yourself on this product before you start making statements like the above. >> Here's the place to start: <A HREF= " http://symbioticsllc.com/ " >Colostrum - SYMBIOTICS: Exclusive Suppliers o...</A> <A HREF= " http://www.newlifefoods.com/ " >New Life Foods Colostrum Supplements Vitamins...</A> >> OK.but for some reason this glib little statement doesn't change my mind: " I DON'T WANT TO TAKE COLOSTRUM FROM THE CALVES. DO THEY GET ENOUGH? The calf's needs are always met first. Most calves would simply die if they didn't get Colostrum. " I couldn't find anything else mentioning calves or harvesting at either link, maybe you could provide a more exact link. I'd be interested in an explanation of how they know the calves needs have been met, how they know it's had enough. From the statement above, one could assume that they think that if the calf simply lives, it's had enough. shelby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 Colostrum is produced by new moms(mammals) before milk comes in, only for a very limited time(1-3days or so), in limited amounts, & it is certainly very beneficial for the baby's immune system. However giving a human baby a cow's colostrum(never mind that it belongs to the calf...) does not seem to me to be a great idea. It's a substance that is quite clearly by design not meant for us humans! I mean, at least some of us choose not to vaccinate to avoid such foreign substances going in our bodies. Cassie <coreyzmom@...> <http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 In a message dated 11/12/1999 7:01:27 PM Central Standard Time, coreyzmom@... writes: << Also from the same webpage, " Our supplier, New Zealand Dairies, provides a healthy, organic herd of more than 1.5 million cattle. " Hmm, the calves don't get their colostrum because it's sold away, & yet they grow up " healthy. " I don't know, this just seems inconsistent to me. >> Okay, just stop it. Your information, just from the common sense side, is very wrong. The calves get their colostrum. No one is stopping them from getting what they need. I will expand on my *glib* analogy. I was nursing when I became pregnant with my son. My daughter was 3-1/2. Was I going to stop nursing so he wouldn't be deprived of colostrum? NO. The fact is, he wouldn't be deprived. My body would adjust and BOTH children would have gotten what they needed, in ADDITION to my daughter getting a second boost of this golden opportunity. Please call, email, or write New Life (or any other manufacturer) and ask for the information. New Life has an especially detailed one, it's the size of a neighborhood newspaper. I agree that normally, you wouldn't feed your child another animals' milk because it was *made* for another animal's baby. However, most people who are going to take the colostrum are doing it for specific health benefits (and actually there are many), and like my husband, never got colostrum. He benefitted emmensely, and only needed it for 2 months or so. And my son - who did get a load of colostrum - had an almost immediate change in his immune system which was in big trouble. This was recommended to us by one of the area's best herbologists, and prescribed for us (New Life specifically) by two NDs. And no, I certainly wouldn't compare the *natural* ingredients in bovine colostrum to the chemical ingredients of vaccines. That's apples to oranges. I suppose, since I've been bfdg for 6 years straight now, I could help some of you out by marketing MY colostrum -- not. I have no intention of getting pregnant again. But perhaps if we put the info out correctly, droves of new moms would be banging down our doors to contribute... hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 > However giving a human baby a cow's colostrum(never mind that it belongs to > the calf...) does not seem to me to be a great idea. It's a substance that > is quite clearly by design not meant for us humans! I mean, at least some > of us choose not to vaccinate to avoid such foreign substances going in our > bodies. Here are the components of the bovine colostrum. It comes from the New Life web site: The following certification is the Manufacturer's Laboratory Analysis and Certification of Content by Percentage: Immuniglobulins Protein 63-65% Moisture 4.26% Ash 4.85-4.97% Fat .8 to 3% Lactose 2-3% Minerals By Percentage: Calcium: .26% Phosphorous: .24% Magnesium: .04% Sodium: .07% Potassium: .14% Choline: .12% Iron: mg/100g: .20 Copper: mg/100g .06 Cobalt mg/100g: .06 Manganese mg/100g: .016 Iodine mg/100g .03 Chromium Vitamins: Vitamin A, mg/ g fat: 45 Carotenoids,mg/g fat: 35 Vitamin D, IU/100ml: 4 Vitamin E, mg/100ml: 2-3 Thiamin mg/100g 500 Niacin g/100g 100 Panthothenic acid mcg/100ml: 220 Nicotinic acid, mcg/100ml 70-80 Vitamin B6 mcg/100ml 50-70 Vitamin B12 mcg/100ml: 1.0 Biotin mcg/100ml: 3-4 Folic Acid mcg/100ml: .5-9 Ascorbic acid mg./100g: 2.5 Vitamin B2 mcg/100 ml: 500. Amino Acids by %: of Protein: Lysine 7.65% Methionine 1.88% Cisteine: trace Arginine 4.82% Triptophan 1.66% Histidine 2.76% Isoleucine 8.57% Leucine 8.57% Phenylalanine 4.61% Threonine 7.45% Valine 8.17% BIO-ACTIVE COMPOSITION OF BOVINE COLOSTRUM (components unique to bovine and human colostrum) Immune Factors: Immunoglobulins (IgG): High concentration: IgG. Plus: IgM, IgA, IgE, secretory IgA, IgA Specific Helper Factor (sIgA) which induces IgA synthesis, B Lactoglobulin, Lactalbumin, Albumin, Prealbumin, Alpha 1-Antitrypsin, Alpha 1-Fetoprotein, Alpha 2-Macroglobulin, Haemopexin, Haptoglobin, Beta 2-Microglobulin, C3, C4 and Orosomucoid. Cytokines: Interlukin 1, 6 & 10, Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF) & Interferron y. Lactoperoxidase-Thiocyanate & Xanthine Oxidase( powerful antibacterial systems). Lactoferrin (iron chelator). Lymphokines & Lysozyme Proline-Rich Polypeptide: (PRP): An immunomodulatory peptide. Alpha 2-Glycoproteins, AP Glycoprotein PLUS: A wide range of SPECIFIC anti-bacterial, viral, yeast, and protozoal antibodies and significant levels of non-antibody immunological compounds including Glycoconjugates. Growth Factors: Insuline-like Growth Factor 1 (IgF-1): (high concentration) Transforming Growth Factors A and B (TgF A & Epithelial Growth Factor (EgF) Fibroblast Growth Factor (FgF) Prolactin (activates Lacrimal Gland secretion), Gonadatropin Releasing Hormone and Associated Peptide (GnRH and GAP) Insulin These organic substances can hardly be compared with the " foreign substances " questionable in vaccines. You must remember that it is not used in place of a mother's own colostrum but to boost immunity. Many people of my generation were not breastfed and did not get the benefits of breastfeeding which could possibly be linked as a reason for adult onset diseases and conditions. But, even those who are breastfed could use an immune boost. My daughter was exclusively breastfed for 8 months and still suffered from severe eczema. I was disappointed that we weren't able to use it long enough to determine it's benefits. We had to quit due to her milk allergy. It is very unfair to compare the use of this product with the use of vaccines. You should also understand that any parent who has a child with health problems is more willing to try something natural and harmless than other parents who might be quick to dismiss it if it doesn't pertain to them. I guess I could have just slathered hydrocortisone on my baby all the time but I chose to try every natural product instead. At least colostrum won't make you go blind, cause yeast to grow out of control and make you develop a life long dependency on chemical drugs. That is most important in my book. Watch your baby scratch, dig, scream, cry, fuss all day long and sleep restless and fitful for months on end and then decide if this product should still be avoided at all costs. Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented Hannah http://home.clarksville.com/~dth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 In a message dated 11/12/99 12:47:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, rpugh@... writes: > Has anyone ever heard of Colostrum? I have heard that colostrum makes your cells grow quickly (as useful for a newborn). However, if you have any cancer cells they will grow quickly too. Becki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 > > Here are the components of the bovine colostrum. It comes from the New Life > web site: I checked out the " New Life " website. In the first paragraph on colostrum http://www.newlifefoods.com/index2.htm they state, " Colostrum is so important that most infants would simply die without it. " Huh?!? Do they mean human babies? This seems to me to be a manipulative scare tactic. Barely 1/2 of human infants in the USA get colostrum from their moms. Yes, that's sad, but in the *vast* majority of cases it doesn't cause them to die! Also from the same webpage, " Our supplier, New Zealand Dairies, provides a healthy, organic herd of more than 1.5 million cattle. " Hmm, the calves don't get their colostrum because it's sold away, & yet they grow up " healthy. " I don't know, this just seems inconsistent to me. Bovine colostrum, I believe, is not meant for humans. It's naturally meant for calves. JMO. Cassie <coreyzmom@...> <http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 I am surprised that someone anti-vaccine would be so close-minded about other things. I think it is time for me to switch to the other list of just vaccine info. I have not been impressed thus far with some of the people on this board and frankly I don't have the time to make worthwhile posts to people who don't even want to learn anything new, even when it comes from people who are experienced in those areas. See ya. Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented Hannah http://home.clarksville.com/~dth Re: Colostrum!!!!! > From: " asc smith " <coreyzmom@...> > > > > > > Here are the components of the bovine colostrum. It comes from the New > Life > > web site: > > I checked out the " New Life " website. In the first paragraph on colostrum > http://www.newlifefoods.com/index2.htm they state, " Colostrum is so > important that most infants would simply die without it. " Huh?!? Do they > mean human babies? This seems to me to be a manipulative scare tactic. > Barely 1/2 of human infants in the USA get colostrum from their moms. Yes, > that's sad, but in the *vast* majority of cases it doesn't cause them to > die! > > Also from the same webpage, " Our supplier, New Zealand Dairies, provides a > healthy, organic herd of more than 1.5 million cattle. " Hmm, the calves > don't get their colostrum because it's sold away, & yet they grow up > " healthy. " I don't know, this just seems inconsistent to me. > > Bovine colostrum, I believe, is not meant for humans. It's naturally meant > for calves. JMO. > > Cassie > <coreyzmom@...> > <http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 > " In the 1950's and 1960's, Dr. Albert Sabin, who developed a polio vaccine, claimed he had found antipolio virus antibodies >in cow colostrum, even though cows were not known to get polio. When used by humans, the colostrum protected them >from getting polio. " This is from the original post on this subject--this is why I *peripherally* compared cow colostrum to vaccine in saying that they are both foreign substances to humans(not " unnatural " mind you, but not by design meant for humans.) If the drug co's decided to use bovine colostrum instead of the OPV & IPV for polio vaccine we would still decline it. One reason we don't vaccinate is due to the animal substances used in their production. This is our philosophical view. It sure isn't everyone's & that's OK. > And no, I certainly wouldn't compare the *natural* ingredients in bovine > colostrum to the chemical ingredients of vaccines. That's apples to oranges. ---------------------------- And to Hannah, I'm sorry if you consider me to be closed minded. I would really appreciate any information you have that show's that " most infants would simply die without colostrum. " Until then, I simply feel that the New Life site is a questionable source of information. I hold the vaccine sites to the same high standards, whether pro-choice or pro-vaccine. Please, please don't take this personally, this is simply a *discussion.* It was my understanding that since the list split discussions would be more welcome. Cassie, shutting up now:-) <coreyzmom@...> <http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 I am surprised that someone who must have experience with people " bashing " them for their anti-vaccine views would be so quick to do the same over bovine colostrum. The " you not worthy of my talking to if you don't agree with me " sentiment is something I personally can do without and am not sorry to see go. shelby Toni wrote: > From: " Toni " <dth@...> > > I am surprised that someone anti-vaccine would be so close-minded about > other things. I think it is time for me to switch to the other list of just > vaccine info. I have not been impressed thus far with some of the people on > this board and frankly I don't have the time to make worthwhile posts to > people who don't even want to learn anything new, even when it comes from > people who are experienced in those areas. See ya. > > Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented > Hannah > http://home.clarksville.com/~dth > > Re: Colostrum!!!!! > > > From: " asc smith " <coreyzmom@...> > > > > > > > > > > Here are the components of the bovine colostrum. It comes from the New > > Life > > > web site: > > > > I checked out the " New Life " website. In the first paragraph on colostrum > > http://www.newlifefoods.com/index2.htm they state, " Colostrum is so > > important that most infants would simply die without it. " Huh?!? Do they > > mean human babies? This seems to me to be a manipulative scare tactic. > > Barely 1/2 of human infants in the USA get colostrum from their moms. > Yes, > > that's sad, but in the *vast* majority of cases it doesn't cause them to > > die! > > > > Also from the same webpage, " Our supplier, New Zealand Dairies, provides a > > healthy, organic herd of more than 1.5 million cattle. " Hmm, the calves > > don't get their colostrum because it's sold away, & yet they grow up > > " healthy. " I don't know, this just seems inconsistent to me. > > > > Bovine colostrum, I believe, is not meant for humans. It's naturally > meant > > for calves. JMO. > > > > Cassie > > <coreyzmom@...> > > <http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 <<Okay, just stop it. Your information, just from the common sense side, is very wrong. The calves get their colostrum.>> I still can't find evidence to this on the sites you listed. Please take a moment and realize how rude you are being because other's aren't embracing your views. <<My body would adjust and BOTH children would have gotten what they needed, in ADDITION to my daughter getting a second boost of this golden opportunity>> Again, this is a bit different than someone taking the colostrum form a cow (who's body could possibly not have prepared for this) to make a profit. <<But perhaps if we put the info out correctly, droves of new moms would be banging down our doors to contribute... hmmm.>> I seriously doubt this. I know I wouldn't. And yes, I am still nursing my son and am due to have another. Sure as hell doesn't mean I'd SELL any colostrum. C8743@... wrote: > From: C8743@... > > In a message dated 11/12/1999 7:01:27 PM Central Standard Time, > coreyzmom@... writes: > > << Also from the same webpage, " Our supplier, New Zealand Dairies, provides a > healthy, organic herd of more than 1.5 million cattle. " Hmm, the calves > don't get their colostrum because it's sold away, & yet they grow up > " healthy. " I don't know, this just seems inconsistent to me. > >> > Okay, just stop it. Your information, just from the common sense side, is > very wrong. The calves get their colostrum. No one is stopping them from > getting what they need. I will expand on my *glib* analogy. I was nursing > when I became pregnant with my son. My daughter was 3-1/2. Was I going to > stop nursing so he wouldn't be deprived of colostrum? NO. The fact is, he > wouldn't be deprived. My body would adjust and BOTH children would have > gotten what they needed, in ADDITION to my daughter getting a second boost of > this golden opportunity. Please call, email, or write New Life (or any other > manufacturer) and ask for the information. New Life has an especially > detailed one, it's the size of a neighborhood newspaper. I agree that > normally, you wouldn't feed your child another animals' milk because it was > *made* for another animal's baby. However, most people who are going to take > the colostrum are doing it for specific health benefits (and actually there > are many), and like my husband, never got colostrum. He benefitted > emmensely, and only needed it for 2 months or so. And my son - who did get a > load of colostrum - had an almost immediate change in his immune system which > was in big trouble. This was recommended to us by one of the area's best > herbologists, and prescribed for us (New Life specifically) by two NDs. And > no, I certainly wouldn't compare the *natural* ingredients in bovine > colostrum to the chemical ingredients of vaccines. That's apples to oranges. > I suppose, since I've been bfdg for 6 years straight now, I could help some > of you out by marketing MY colostrum -- not. I have no intention of getting > pregnant again. But perhaps if we put the info out correctly, droves of new > moms would be banging down our doors to contribute... hmmm. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 <<Okay, just stop it. Your information, just from the common sense side, is very wrong. The calves get their colostrum.>> I still can't find evidence to this on the sites you listed. Please take a moment and realize how rude you are being because other's aren't embracing your views. <<My body would adjust and BOTH children would have gotten what they needed, in ADDITION to my daughter getting a second boost of this golden opportunity>> Again, this is a bit different than someone taking the colostrum form a cow (who's body could possibly not have prepared for this) to make a profit. <<But perhaps if we put the info out correctly, droves of new moms would be banging down our doors to contribute... hmmm.>> I seriously doubt this. I know I wouldn't. And yes, I am still nursing my son and am due to have another. Sure as hell doesn't mean I'd SELL any colostrum. C8743@... wrote: > From: C8743@... > > In a message dated 11/12/1999 7:01:27 PM Central Standard Time, > coreyzmom@... writes: > > << Also from the same webpage, " Our supplier, New Zealand Dairies, provides a > healthy, organic herd of more than 1.5 million cattle. " Hmm, the calves > don't get their colostrum because it's sold away, & yet they grow up > " healthy. " I don't know, this just seems inconsistent to me. > >> > Okay, just stop it. Your information, just from the common sense side, is > very wrong. The calves get their colostrum. No one is stopping them from > getting what they need. I will expand on my *glib* analogy. I was nursing > when I became pregnant with my son. My daughter was 3-1/2. Was I going to > stop nursing so he wouldn't be deprived of colostrum? NO. The fact is, he > wouldn't be deprived. My body would adjust and BOTH children would have > gotten what they needed, in ADDITION to my daughter getting a second boost of > this golden opportunity. Please call, email, or write New Life (or any other > manufacturer) and ask for the information. New Life has an especially > detailed one, it's the size of a neighborhood newspaper. I agree that > normally, you wouldn't feed your child another animals' milk because it was > *made* for another animal's baby. However, most people who are going to take > the colostrum are doing it for specific health benefits (and actually there > are many), and like my husband, never got colostrum. He benefitted > emmensely, and only needed it for 2 months or so. And my son - who did get a > load of colostrum - had an almost immediate change in his immune system which > was in big trouble. This was recommended to us by one of the area's best > herbologists, and prescribed for us (New Life specifically) by two NDs. And > no, I certainly wouldn't compare the *natural* ingredients in bovine > colostrum to the chemical ingredients of vaccines. That's apples to oranges. > I suppose, since I've been bfdg for 6 years straight now, I could help some > of you out by marketing MY colostrum -- not. I have no intention of getting > pregnant again. But perhaps if we put the info out correctly, droves of new > moms would be banging down our doors to contribute... hmmm. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 > I am surprised that someone who must have experience with people " bashing " them > for their anti-vaccine views would be so quick to do the same over bovine > colostrum. First of all, I never bashed anyone. I simply stated the truth that she was being close minded and unwilling to do any decent amount of research before giving the product a bad name. That's how misinformation gets spread and I thought that everyone on this list was at least in agreement that this kind of behavior regarding vaccines needs to be stopped. I don't understand why it can't pertain to other things also. The " you not worthy of my talking to if you don't agree with me " I have many dear friends who don't agree with most of the things that make up my family's lifestyle. I have no problem with someone choosing a different INFORMED opinion than mine. That was not the situation here. If she does all the research and comes back and states the same opinion then fine. Can't beat a dead horse, ya know? But, spouting information implying that because " it's not meant for humans it must be bad " is just dangerous. An educated opinion is one thing and worthy of obtaining. A preconceived idea without any first hand experience or willingness to explore the issue in depth is another entirely. I NEVER said she was not worthy of talking to because she didn't agree with me so please be careful to not put words in my mouth. I'm sure you do not appreciate it when people do it to you. I have a family to take care of and I have indeed had great experience with people who won't listen to a word I have to say because they already have a pre-conceived notion without doing in depth research to back up their views. Because of this experience I know when it is a waste of valuable time to continue such discussions. I'm sure most people can appreciate that view. > sentiment is something I personally can do without and am not sorry to see go. Sorry to burst your bubble but I think I'll stick around for a bit longer to support Carol. Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented Hannah http://home.clarksville.com/~dth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 1999 Report Share Posted November 12, 1999 > If the drug co's decided to use bovine colostrum instead of the > OPV & IPV for polio vaccine we would still decline it. One reason we don't > vaccinate is due to the animal substances used in their production. This is > our philosophical view. It sure isn't everyone's & that's OK. I can understand this part. If it means you are vegan then you would certainly have a right to decline this product for philosophical reasons. But, please don't be misled into thinking that this is not a wonderful product for many people who are in dire need of some extra immune support. I have no problem with you stating that it is not a choice for your family. I disagree with you implying that it is not good for any human. > And to Hannah, I'm sorry if you consider me to be closed minded. I would > really appreciate any information you have that show's that " most infants > would simply die without colostrum. " I did not make the above statement. It would probably be helpful for you to contact the source, which is New Life. It would be their responsibility to back up this claim. I believe we all know the wonderful properties of colostrum. My daughter had trouble with latch on and didn't nurse for 2 days. She got very sick. Would she have died? Probably not due to the fact that we would have had no choice but to pump her full of formula if she hadn't finally gotten my milk. BTW, my name is Toni, not Hannah. >New Life site is a questionable source of information. There are many ND's (and others) who have done their homework, seen the results, and would most vehemently disagree with you. New Life is a very respectable company. But, you are certainly entitled to feel however you wish to feel. I truly hope your child is never in a position where you are faced with having to make a choice you previously were against. I never thought that we'd do many of the things that we have had to do in order to make my child well. She is the most important thing in the world to me and I would never attempt to do anything that causes her harm. I have been through hell for the better portion of her first year trying to make her condition go away. And that meant having to be open minded about certain things that might have initially sounded strange even though I had to fight opposition from nearly everone I knew during that time. I'm guessing you love your child too and if so you can see why I'd take this personally. People every day allow their children to eat processed foods with artificial colors and flavors and non-organic products. They also give children chemical drugs, including antibiotics, that many times they don't need. There is no doubt in my mind that treating a medical problem with bovine colostrum is far less dangerous than any of those other things. I break my back to give my child the best and healthiest start in life. To have another person imply that what I do could be harmful is not the most pleasant thing to hear. If that is not what you were intending then we can end this string. Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented Hannah http://home.clarksville.com/~dth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 In a message dated 11/12/1999 9:51:23 PM Central Standard Time, helminger@... writes: << ure as hell doesn't mean I'd SELL any colostrum. >> And the point is -- then we can get from cows, because OBVIOUSLY there isn't going to be any human colostrum to distribute -- And NO, for the last time, the calves don't suffer in any way. Like I've stated, get some material and read up on it. I feel this discussion has gone beyond what it should have. You are trying to make statements about something which you DON'T know much about, and that isn't fair to us who have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 In a message dated 11/12/1999 11:35:20 PM Central Standard Time, dth@... writes: << There are many ND's (and others) who have done their homework, seen the results, and would most vehemently disagree with you. New Life is a very respectable company. But, you are certainly entitled to feel however you wish to feel. >> And for all the rest you said... " You go girl... " And from me: " what she said. " end of transmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 In a message dated 11/13/99 10:53:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, dth@... writes: << From: " Toni " <dth@...> Aren't we done with this yet!?!? >> HERE, HERE!! I am new to this list, and have appreciated the vax info I have received, but this whole colostrum situation has just gotten way out of hand!! Can we give it a rest? How about those Chargers?! Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 > First of all, I never bashed anyone. I simply stated the truth that she was > being close minded and unwilling to do any decent amount of research before > giving the product a bad name. Since I am " she " I guess I should respond. OPINION, that's what we're talking about. Careful using the term closed-minded, because I would bet we ALL have opinions on things. And it would be an OPINION what a " decent amount of research " would be. Many of us could be accused of giving vaccines " a bad name. " Doesn't mean what we think is wrong. It's an OPINION. Two thinking persons do not always share opinions. And sometimes when a person calls another person " closed minded, " what they really mean is, " you don't agree with me so you are wrong. " It's better to have a discussion than resort to name calling, IMO. It would also be better to agree to have different OPINIONS, IMO. Name calling isn't productive, (and it isn't nice, IMO of course.) > I have many dear friends who don't agree with most of the things that make > up my family's lifestyle. I have no problem with someone choosing a > different INFORMED opinion than mine. That was not the situation here. If > she does all the research and comes back and states the same opinion then > fine. Who's to say what " all the research " is? I did enough reading to know it isn't for me. At some point we have to decide what is right for OURSELVES. >But, spouting information implying > that because " it's not meant for humans it must be bad " is just dangerous. Now my OPINIONS are " dangerous? " Please, I'm not a prophet. I am a person with a philosophical opinion. I am not inclined to take your word as gospel...and can't imagine why you'd think others would take mine that way. > An educated opinion is one thing and worthy of obtaining. A preconceived > idea without any first hand experience or willingness to explore the issue > in depth is another entirely. This is definitely beating a dead horse. It is my OPINION that bovine colostrum is meant for cows. I don't need to taste it, don't need to visit the farm, don't need to consult more websites. And it's also my OPINION that on a discussion list such as this, one should not need to constantly remind the reader that one is sharing their OPINION. I would like to state that one may assume, if no other source is cited, that I am expressing my personal opinion and/or experience when I post. JMO. (That means " just my opinion. " ) Cassie <coreyzmom@...> <http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 Aren't we done with this yet!?!? > And sometimes when a person calls another person " closed minded, " what they > really mean is, " you don't agree with me so you are wrong. " Now this ISN'T putting words in someone elses mouth? How dare you tell me what I " really mean " ! What I say is what I say. Period. > And it would be an OPINION what a " decent > amount of research " would be. You're absolutely right. Although, I would love a show of hands of people who made the choice to not vaccinate based on a few minutes spent on one web site. I realize they both don't hold the same amount of importance but my point is I research everything of interest to me as thoroughly and as completely as I can. I guess the difference here was that the health of my child made this of interest to me where there is nothing to provoke it's interest in you. > Who's to say what " all the research " is? I did enough reading to know it > isn't for me. Ok, whatever. Fine. Then we're done, right? > JMO. (That means " just my opinion. " ) Duh... Since you are so obsessed with the term OPINION then I must say that, yes, I do have opinions about things but when it comes to medical issues I do my very best to make statements from facts and research. While we can all have differing opinions (how boring would the world be otherwise?), they can still be harmful to others who are trying to made informed choices based on fact, information and research. You know this. I already stated that it is ok for you to believe this product is not for your family. All I asked is that you didn't discount it for everyone. I don't think that's too much to ask. Can we PLEASE be done with this now? I grow weary of arguments that seemingly have no end. There is no reason to go on. JMO! Toni, mom to home birthed, cloth diapered, breastfed and attachment parented Hannah http://home.clarksville.com/~dth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 In a message dated 11/13/1999 5:03:14 PM Central Standard Time, Knight525@... writes: << How about those Chargers?! Teri >> Hey, they're comin' to the dome -- how should I cheer????? Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 < The only problem I have with the sale of cow colostrum is what the baby cows will be missing if the colostrum is bottled and sold. A female only produces colostrum for a short period of time after the birth her baby. It is full of very important antibodies and nutrients for the newborns. I find it very disturbing that the baby cow is not getting what is rightfully theirs in order to put a profit in their owners pocket. >> >>This is very incorrect thinking. By your thinking, it would be very, very >>wrong for a mother to consider tandem nursing her children... because one or >>both would not be receiving what they " needed " . This is not true, in fact >>the opposite IS TRUE. The more the breasts ae stimulated, the more the milk >>or colostrum is produced. You need to get the information from New Life as >>to how it is collected, and educate yourself on this product before you start >>making statements like the above. It doesn't benefit anyone, and could hurt >>some... I did not state at any point in my original statement that it was not possible for a female to produce enough for *her* children...For your information, I Am Currently Breastfeeding My TWINS. My concern is that the baby cows would not have access to their mothers colostrum in order for their owners to bottle and sell more colostrum to make MONEY. You are assuming the owners would happily allow the baby cows to nurse freely, and not be concerned with the their profit margin. The fact is the owners are interested in making money. The sale of colostrum is just a new way to make a profit at the risk of the baby cows. According to the Symbiotics The Colostrum Company: " New Life Colostrum is collected only during the first 24 hours after the second calving (after the calf has obtained all that is necessary for its survival). " This is EXACTLY what I am speaking of...Who are they to decide when " the calf has obtained all that is necessary for its survival. " How sad that the calf isn't allowed to have all that is theirs. Here is a link for some information on Bovine Colostrum: http://www.notmilk.com/deb/053099.html Vollweiler owner, Breastfeeding and Attachment Parenting Twins http://members.tripod.com/~breastfeedingtwins/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE PEOPLE Seb. At 05:50 PM 11/13/1999 EST, you wrote: >From: Knight525@... > >In a message dated 11/13/99 10:53:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, >dth@... writes: > ><< From: " Toni " <dth@...> > > Aren't we done with this yet!?!? >> > >HERE, HERE!! I am new to this list, and have appreciated the vax info I have >received, but this whole colostrum situation has just gotten way out of >hand!! Can we give it a rest? How about those Chargers?! > >Teri > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 1999 Report Share Posted November 13, 1999 In a message dated 11/13/99 4:12:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, C8743@... writes: << Hey, they're comin' to the dome -- how should I cheer????? Carol >> Yes! GO CHARGERS!!! (not that it'll do much good!) Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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