Re: Suggestions for good doctors to help with thyroid/adrenal fatigue

[Guest guest]

Hi donna, Dr. P > thyroid treatment > From: donnam1978@...> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:39:19 +0000> Subject: Suggestions for good doctors to help with thyroid/adrenal fatigue> > Can anyone suggest a good doc in the UK who can help me with my thyroid/adrenal problems. I have seen Doctor Skinner and he was great but I need someone who can help with my adrenal problems aswell. Thanks Donna> > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks , Who is Dr P and where can I find him. Has he helped alot of people

on this forum do you know ? Thanks again :-)

>

>

> Hi donna,

> Dr. P

>

>

> > thyroid treatment

> > From: donnam1978@...

> > Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 12:39:19 +0000

> > Subject: Suggestions for good doctors to help with

thyroid/adrenal fatigue

> >

> > Can anyone suggest a good doc in the UK who can help me with my

thyroid/adrenal problems. I have seen Doctor Skinner and he was great but I need

someone who can help with my adrenal problems aswell. Thanks Donna

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get an acth stim test done if you suspect adrenal probs

saliva tests are a very grey area in my eyes and very misleading

if you truly have low reserve it will show on the acth test as mine did

just so you know,alot of people feel ALOT worse on steroids(myself included) and

would te for anyone else to end up like i am

Thanks

Dan

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan, Thanks for the info. Bless you sorry to hear your not well how come the

steroids have made you worse ?. Whats an acth stim test and where can i get one

? Is it blood test ?

I do have early signs of adrenal fatigue and not really sure how to treat it was

going to try IsoCort. But want to do further tests before I start anything.

Think I aslo have a rT3 problem which I am having problems trying to get my doc

to do. Feel like its a constant battle for me.

>

>

> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get an acth stim test done if you suspect adrenal probs

>

>

[Guest guest]

Donna

The saliva tests work for many many people.

As with anything it's important to take things really slowly. I read Dr 's

book and could not have scored any higher in his quiz. !

I started on nutri adrenal extra in June 2009. Slowly built up to 4 tablets a

day. 2 in the morning and 2 at mid day. I have been on that since then. I heard

some people quickly upping their dose... adding in hc... at vast quantities...

not listening to others telling them to slow down. But Dr P told me that it can

take years to get as depleted as I was and the body will go into shock if you

try to rush things. If your thyroid is compromised too everything has to be

slow. Allow the body to adjust to each change and new regime. So if it took

years to get to that stage you should not expect to get fully well in just a few

weeks.

I made some life style adjustments. I walk away from conflict. I've taken up

relaxation techniques.... yoga, tai chi and meditation. They work as they still

the mind... and adrenal junkies usually have racing minds!

And now I can say I've turned the corner. I never needed hc as Dr P said I

wouldn't if I was prepared to take it slow. I did have a hiccup with new armour.

Took myself off it. Went back to the nutri thyroid I had been taking. Stabilised

myself and then changed brand.

My suggestion to you Donna. Read everything about adrenals, thyroid... Buy Dr Ps

book. It is a bible. Join a couple of sites like the STTM site as well.

Take your time to recover. Hormones are really complex and dangerous. Bodies

cannot cope with being " nuked " by vast quantities of any one. If they are

" nuked " something else has to give.

And good luck

Kim X

[Guest guest]

Dear

Dan - the NHS do NOT do an automatic ACTH STIM test for low adrenal reserve -

this will only be done in patients with suspected adrenal insufficiency i.e.

's disease or suspected Cushing's Syndrome. Low adrenal reserve, as many

hypothyroid sufferers know it, will not be picked up with the NHS ACTH test -

no matter how many times you say it will. Your particular case is VERY

different as you are aware. The ACTH test is done at only one time during the

day (usually first thing in the morning) and the conventional tests have

a normal range that is very wide, - so that only the most severe, out-of-range

abnormalities qualify as being diagnostic of abnormal adrenal function (sound

familiar?). For these reasons, many doctors do not order adrenal tests at all.

If they do, they generally focus not on cortisol, but on evaluating adrenaline

levels.

It

would be great to have one simple, reliable method of assessing a person's

adrenal function. There is not one test that is widely (or reliably) used.

Most doctors consider that the adrenal system is always functioning smoothly,

except in extreme decreased adrenal function('s) or extreme increased adrenal

function (Cushings). When a doctor sees the ACTH STIM shows you do not have either

Cushing's or 's, the topic of adrenal metabolism gets shoved aside. It

is these folk who need the 24 hour salivary profile tested.

Dr

Peatfield, Dr Thierry Hertoghe and many other great doctors feel that the

alternative testing of urine and saliva, evaluating four separate samples in a

24-hour period, is the preferred choice for testing low adrenal reserve because

it seems to reveal more of what is actually occurring when a patient

experiences disturbingly low points in his/her day, or when proper thyroid

treatment doesn't go well. Some saliva labs not only check cortisol, but DHEA,

and pregnenolone also. Pregnenalone, like DHEA, is a chemical precursor

to many of the important adrenal hormones. Some alternatitve practitioners are

claiming improved success with salivary testing.

However,

these alternative tests are unlikely to reveal the true level of adrenal insufficiency

('s) - which is where the ACTH STIM test comes in.

A

number of labs also do 24 hour urinary measurements of Cortisol and DHEA. Both

salivary and urine tests use four separate samples collected at 8.00a.m..,

noon, 4-00p.m., and midnight - Testing four different samples taken

throughout the day is an attempt to obtain a more complete adrenal profile than

one sample would provide. This allows a more detailed picture of the patient's

daily cyclic adrenal function, and better distinguishes between the alarm phase

and the exhaustion phase.

For

those folk who's adrenal glands are not putting out sufficient secretions ,

they need a course of hydrocortisone in the same was that those folk who's

thyroid gland is not putting out sufficient thyroid hormone (or it is not

getting into the cells) need thyroid hormone replacement. Folk generally do not

feel worse if they go on a course of hydrocortisone replacement, they feel

better. If you are taking too little or too much, or increasing your dose too

frequently, then yes, this would cause people to feel a lot worse in the same

way as abusing thyroid hormone replacement. We must treat hydrocortisone,

thyroid and other steroids with great respect.

On

this forum, we try to give the facts as far as we see them, because otherwise,

members can become confused. If we believed that the 24 hour salivary test was

a " very grey area " and " very misleading " , I can assure you

100% that we would NOT be recommending it, and neither would Dr Peatfield, Dr

Hertoghe, Dr Friedman, Dr Teitelbaum or Dr Mantzourani - and others, all of whom

use this test on a very regular basis.

Be

assured that for the majority of us, if our doctor believed we were showing all

the symptoms and signs of either 's disease or Cushing's syndrome, then they

would refer us to an endocrinologist at the Hospital for a morning ATCH STIM

test.

Sheila

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get an acth stim test done if you suspect adrenal probs

saliva tests are a very grey area in my eyes and very misleading

if you truly have low reserve it will show on the acth test as mine did

just so you know,alot of people feel ALOT worse on steroids(myself included)

and would te for anyone else to end up like i am

Thanks

Dan

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[Guest guest]

I have sent you a list of doctors Donna, though finding a good

doc who will treat low adrenal reserve might be a little difficult, but some

do.

Luv - Sheila

Can anyone suggest a good doc in the UK who can

help me with my thyroid/adrenal problems. I have seen Doctor Skinner and he was

great but I need someone who can help with my adrenal problems aswell. Thanks

Donna

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found in this incoming message.

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19:35:00

[Guest guest]

im sure you can understand my frustration as i chose to beleive a saliva test...i followed the standard peatfield or hertoghe pofile....i ended up in hosp....completely failed the acth stime test after mssing with steroids that screw with yor acth signalling and have pretty muchlost my life cos of all this and cant even go out with out munching though HC like pacman from start to finish of my journey

id HATE for anyone else to experience this and no matter how hard i try i cant get off this stuff....

all im sayin is even with crappy adrenals i still managed to live a fairly normal life...now with so called adrenal support i cant even get out of bed....

im sorry but i am not sold on adrenal fatigue anymore after what happend to me....if low adrenal reserve doent show up on a test then it can be treated with rest ad nutrition as it woul not be a seriuos malfunction of the adrenal gland....this my humle opinion and i dont intend to upset nor offend anyone

I just want people o take head and be careful as i ahave spoken to many people who have found cortef to be the wordecision of their life!!!!

Dan

From: Sheila <sheila@...>Subject: RE: Re: Suggestions for good doctors to help with thyroid/adrenal fatiguethyroid treatment Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 4:08 PM

Dear Dan - the NHS do NOT do an automatic ACTH STIM test for low adrenal reserve - this will only be done in patients with suspected adrenal insufficiency i.e. 's disease or suspected Cushing's Syndrome. Low adrenal reserve, as many hypothyroid sufferers know it, will not be picked up with the NHS ACTH test - no matter how many times you say it will. Your particular case is VERY different as you are aware. The ACTH test is done at only one time during the day (usually first thing in the morning) and the conventional tests have a normal range that is very wide, - so that only the most severe, out-of-range abnormalities qualify as being diagnostic of abnormal adrenal function (sound familiar?). For these reasons, many doctors do not order adrenal tests at all. If they do, they generally focus not on cortisol, but on evaluating adrenaline levels.

It would be great to have one simple, reliable method of assessing a person's adrenal function. There is not one test that is widely (or reliably) used. Most doctors consider that the adrenal system is always functioning smoothly, except in extreme decreased adrenal function(' s) or extreme increased adrenal function (Cushings). When a doctor sees the ACTH STIM shows you do not have either Cushing's or 's, the topic of adrenal metabolism gets shoved aside. It is these folk who need the 24 hour salivary profile tested.

Dr Peatfield, Dr Thierry Hertoghe and many other great doctors feel that the alternative testing of urine and saliva, evaluating four separate samples in a 24-hour period, is the preferred choice for testing low adrenal reserve because it seems to reveal more of what is actually occurring when a patient experiences disturbingly low points in his/her day, or when proper thyroid treatment doesn't go well. Some saliva labs not only check cortisol, but DHEA, and pregnenolone also. Pregnenalone, like DHEA, is a chemical precursor to many of the important adrenal hormones. Some alternatitve practitioners are claiming improved success with salivary testing.

However, these alternative tests are unlikely to reveal the true level of adrenal insufficiency ('s) - which is where the ACTH STIM test comes in.

A number of labs also do 24 hour urinary measurements of Cortisol and DHEA. Both salivary and urine tests use four separate samples collected at 8.00a.m.., noon, 4-00p.m., and midnight - Testing four different samples taken throughout the day is an attempt to obtain a more complete adrenal profile than one sample would provide. This allows a more detailed picture of the patient's daily cyclic adrenal function, and better distinguishes between the alarm phase and the exhaustion phase.

For those folk who's adrenal glands are not putting out sufficient secretions , they need a course of hydrocortisone in the same was that those folk who's thyroid gland is not putting out sufficient thyroid hormone (or it is not getting into the cells) need thyroid hormone replacement. Folk generally do not feel worse if they go on a course of hydrocortisone replacement, they feel better. If you are taking too little or too much, or increasing your dose too frequently, then yes, this would cause people to feel a lot worse in the same way as abusing thyroid hormone replacement. We must treat hydrocortisone, thyroid and other steroids with great respect.

On this forum, we try to give the facts as far as we see them, because otherwise, members can become confused. If we believed that the 24 hour salivary test was a "very grey area" and "very misleading", I can assure you 100% that we would NOT be recommending it, and neither would Dr Peatfield, Dr Hertoghe, Dr Friedman, Dr Teitelbaum or Dr Mantzourani - and others, all of whom use this test on a very regular basis.

Be assured that for the majority of us, if our doctor believed we were showing all the symptoms and signs of either 's disease or Cushing's syndrome, then they would refer us to an endocrinologist at the Hospital for a morning ATCH STIM test.

Sheila

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get an acth stim test done if you suspect adrenal probssaliva tests are a very grey area in my eyes and very misleadingif you truly have low reserve it will show on the acth test as mine didjust so you know,alot of people feel ALOT worse on steroids(myself included) and would te for anyone else to end up like i amThanksDan

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[Guest guest]

Dr

P is one of our Medical Advisers. His name is Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield. He

wrote the book " Your Thyroid and How to Keep it Healthy " which I

would highly recommend that you buy. He wrote it for patients to help them

understand the workings of the thyroid and the associated conditions that go

along with being hypothyroid and also teaches you how you can treat yourself. A

brilliant book. He does regular clinics in a few places up and down the UK. Go

to our web site www.tpa-uk.org.uk and in

the right hand column, scroll down until you see 'Dr Peatfield's Clinics'. He

is doing a three day clinic at my cottage between Skipton and Keighley in North

Yorkshire on 29th, 30th and 31st January if you live anywhere near here. We have

some good cheap B and B if you are a long way off *grin*.

His

charges are £150 for a one and a half hour consultation, which includes up to 3

follow up telephone calls.  He has helped literally hundreds of patients

throughout the world - but he has given many back their health who have been

failed miserably by the NHS. And, he's a poppet to boot! Everybody falls in

love with him, including me *grin*.

Luv

- Sheila

Thanks , Who is Dr P and where can I find

him. Has he helped alot of people on this forum do you know ? Thanks again :-)

>

>

> Hi donna,

> Dr. P

>

[Guest guest]

To get started on supporting your adrenals try good doses of Vitamin C (I use

calcium ascorbate, it's very good value and buffered) and also try Siberian

Ginseng ...5ml twice a day and increase as you feel is right for you. Siberian

ginseng is an adaptogenic herb and is gently nourishing. There is a siberian

ginseng with liquorice I believe ....I think liquorice helps cortisol stay in

the body ...long term use of liquorice can cause blood pressure problems however

(high) but generally low adrenal reserve people have lower blood pressure to

start with.

Best wishes.

Trish

>

> Hi Dan, Thanks for the info. Bless you sorry to hear your not well how come

the steroids have made you worse ?. Whats an acth stim test and where can i get

one ? Is it blood test ?

> I do have early signs of adrenal fatigue and not really sure how to treat it

was going to try IsoCort. But want to do further tests before I start anything.

Think I aslo have a rT3 problem which I am having problems trying to get my doc

to do. Feel like its a constant battle for me.

[Guest guest]

Hi Donna,

For some people, an ACTH (AdrenoCorticoTrophicHormone) 'stim'(ulation) test will

show up pituitary failure to produce ACTH.

That ACTH deficit leaves the patient looking very pale, as well a not producing

the adrenal hormones.

If treatment with thyroid hormone(s) starts before the adrenal issues have been

addressed, that can lead on to a 'thyroid storm' at some point in the future,

that is life threatening and can be so with very little warning.

That's why the order of priority is ~ treat failing adrenals first then start

thyroid hormone supplementation after giving adrenal support (and not before).

If your prescribing doctor gets this wrong when there is evidence (or not) of

pituitary involvement (sometimes Sheehan's Syndrome, maybe otherwise, tertiary

failure at the level of the hypothalamus) ~ that is what may lead on to a

'thyroid storm'. If the adrenals are exhausted or failing, that also shows up in

the ACTH stim test.

In either case, the trestment is to use steroids first before adding in the

thyroid component.

Far too many GPs won't know this simple fact, even though it's written in the

PIL (Patient Information Leaflet) that comes with the thyroid hormone

treatment(s).

best wishes

Bob

> >

> >

> > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get an acth stim test done if you suspect adrenal probs

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Go the the FILES on the website ( lefthand side, pink links)- you'll find contact details for Dr. Peatfield and clinic dates. Sadly he is private not NHSYes he's helped a lot of us here me included- I really got my life back after 17 years on T4 feeling very ill. > thyroid treatment > From: donnam1978@...> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 13:22:12 +0000> Subject: Re: Suggestions for good doctors to help with thyroid/adrenal fatigue> > Thanks , Who is Dr P and where can I find him. Has he helped alot of people on this forum do you know ? Thanks again :-)> > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________> > Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter> > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/> >> > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Shiela

Please could you send me the list too xx

>

> I have sent you a list of doctors Donna, though finding a good doc who will

> treat low adrenal reserve might be a little difficult, but some do.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Can anyone suggest a good doc in the UK who can help me with my

> thyroid/adrenal problems. I have seen Doctor Skinner and he was great but I

> need someone who can help with my adrenal problems aswell. Thanks Donna

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.131/2608 - Release Date: 01/08/10

> 19:35:00

>