B12 shots

[Guest guest]

Hi - my doctor says B12 shots are best taken

daily. I just couldn't stand to give myself the shot

every day! So I did it weekly for 4 months and felt

more energy at first but after a while didn't notice

any effect. So we are discontinuing for a while to

see what happens. I may try the sublingual B12 you

can get from immunesupport before going back to the

shots.

Best, Jennie

--- lbinujrsy@... wrote:

> High Jennie, my doc has me on b12 shots (1cc every

> day) is this to much? I

> think its 1000mg.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi, Nelly,

>I did try to get my husband to give me nightly shots of hydroxycobalamine

>(B12) for a while, but I had such bruising on both sides of my butt that it

>became monstruous. We switched to 3x week, then to once a week but the

>bruising and the pain was still amazing, so I stopped the shots. I am now

>taking the content of the vials and using it sublingually. Does anybody

>know

>whether I am getting any benefits from it or whether I should donate the

>remaining vials to somebody who can tolerate the shots?

You should be able to use very fine needles (26 ga, or even ultrafine

insulin syringes), which should not give much if any bruising.

If you want to keep with the sublingual route, you will be getting some

benefit from it. How much depends on how long you leave it under your tongue

(tough to standardize, which is why so few drugs are given that way) and on

your body. If you can't taste much when you finally swallow it, you are

getting most of it into your bloodstream.

Jerry

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jerry, Carol, Hud, Steve (and also everyone else who gave me advice

re B12)

I did use very fine needles, and still got bruising which stayed and stayed

(months later and I still have marks), and as I said before I'm thin (not

much meat anywhere to plunge needles in, no fat on my thighs for eg). And

also I did have some quite extensive coag testing done and apart from

slightly elevated fibrin I didn't seem to have hypercoag pbs. I wonder if in

fact my blood is fairly thin, hence the bruising (don't know).

I'm pretty good at keeping the stuff under my tongue for a very long time

(10-15 minutes swishing-swishing), so I think I'll keep at it this way. See,

I got a lot of practice using Betadine as a mouth wash for huge mouth ulcers

for decades, (they seem to have gone, since I've been on abx!!).

Nelly

-----Message d'origine-----

De : Jerry <jerrycam@...>

À : egroups <egroups>

Date : mercredi 23 août 2000 04:05

Objet : Re: B12 shots

>Hi, Nelly,

>>I did try to get my husband to give me nightly shots of hydroxycobalamine

>>(B12) for a while, but I had such bruising on both sides of my butt that

it

>>became monstruous. We switched to 3x week, then to once a week but the

>>bruising and the pain was still amazing, so I stopped the shots. I am now

>>taking the content of the vials and using it sublingually. Does anybody

>>know

>>whether I am getting any benefits from it or whether I should donate the

>>remaining vials to somebody who can tolerate the shots?

>

>You should be able to use very fine needles (26 ga, or even ultrafine

>insulin syringes), which should not give much if any bruising.

>

>If you want to keep with the sublingual route, you will be getting some

>benefit from it. How much depends on how long you leave it under your

tongue

>(tough to standardize, which is why so few drugs are given that way) and on

>your body. If you can't taste much when you finally swallow it, you are

>getting most of it into your bloodstream.

>

>Jerry

>________________________________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

>

>This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't have my paperwork with me, but my DAN doc and the pharmacy

where we got the B12 said 15 degrees. This is from a document at

Neubrander's site:

" In the past, I initially taught that a 45-60 degree angle should be

used. I soon learned that this angle of injection was not shallow

enough for many children in order to guarantee a shallow subcutaneous

injection. This was especially true for smaller children and for very

thin children of any size. What I observed was that I was not seeing

as many benefits in these children, that the benefits would come on

too quickly after a shot, and that the benefits would often fade by

the 3rd day. This pattern of & #147;benefits produced to benefits fading & #148;

was the same pattern I saw when the shots were given either IM or too

close to the SQ:IM junction. Therefore my next protocol stated that

the injections should be 30-degrees or less. Unfortunately parents

heard the & #147;30-degree & #148; part of my message and not the & #147;or

less & #148;.

Therefore, because the goal is to deliver a subcutaneous injection

away from muscle, I now teach my parents that & #147;the shallower the

injection the better & #148; is the safest general rule to follow. "

> Dr Neubranders site says no angle does it not? Something about NOT

angling

> the needle, but going straight in. You may want to double check that

> B12 shots

>

>

> Maurine,

>

> Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try moving

> your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and not

> giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then work

> up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. And

> then get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said to

> do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2 seconds

> to give the shot. Hope that helps.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here is PDF of METHEY-B-12 method.

Kazuko" M. Webster" <jwebs94@...> wrote:

thanks!

B12 shots> > > Maurine,> > Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try moving> your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and not> giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then work> up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. And> then get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said to> do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2 seconds> to give the shot. Hope that helps.> > > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The B-12 injection needs to go into the subcutaneous fat and

because of a " slow-leaching effect " seems to give better results

than if injected into muscle. By giving the shot at 15% angle you

are getting into the subcutaneous tissue.

> Maurine,

>

> Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try

moving

> your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and not

> giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then

work

> up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. And

> then get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said

to

> do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2

seconds

> to give the shot. Hope that helps.

>

>

>

>

> > I also need a person adept with methyl B12 shots-after giving

two to

> my grandson(and I am alone doing it unless you can count his 5 year

> old brother)he now refuses and can get violent(yes, violent about

it)

> so i tried when he's asleep---but he sleeps on his back and by the

> time I turn him over-he's half awake, yelling No and hanging on to

his

> butt. Maurine

[Guest guest]

Dr Neubranders site says no angle does it not? Something about NOT angling the needle, but going straight in. You may want to double check that

-----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of meh96Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:51 AMEOHarm Subject: B12 shotsMaurine,Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try movingyour grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and notgiving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then workup to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. Andthen get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said todo it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2 secondsto give the shot. Hope that helps.> I also need a person adept with methyl B12 shots-after giving two tomy grandson(and I am alone doing it unless you can count his 5 yearold brother)he now refuses and can get violent(yes, violent about it)so i tried when he's asleep---but he sleeps on his back and by thetime I turn him over-he's half awake, yelling No and hanging on to hisbutt. Maurine

[Guest guest]

Dr Neubranders site says no angle does it not? Something about NOT angling the needle, but going straight in. You may want to double check that

-----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of meh96Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:51 AMEOHarm Subject: B12 shotsMaurine,Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try movingyour grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and notgiving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then workup to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. Andthen get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said todo it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2 secondsto give the shot. Hope that helps.> I also need a person adept with methyl B12 shots-after giving two tomy grandson(and I am alone doing it unless you can count his 5 yearold brother)he now refuses and can get violent(yes, violent about it)so i tried when he's asleep---but he sleeps on his back and by thetime I turn him over-he's half awake, yelling No and hanging on to hisbutt. Maurine

[Guest guest]

thanks!

B12 shots> > > Maurine,> > Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try moving> your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and not> giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then work> up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. And> then get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said to> do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2 seconds> to give the shot. Hope that helps.> > >

[Guest guest]

thanks!

B12 shots> > > Maurine,> > Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try moving> your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and not> giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then work> up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that. And> then get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that said to> do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or 2 seconds> to give the shot. Hope that helps.> > >

[Guest guest]

I started out giving my son his shots while he slept, but as time

went on he became more and more aware and resistant to it - pushing

at me, trying to roll on his back, etc. So, I decided I didn't want

him to have fuzzy memories of someone pulling down his pants and

attacking him with a needle in the backside while he slept, so we now

do it while he's awake. He *knows* it doesn't really hurt, but can't

be still, so it takes two of us to give it - my DH holds him still

(we've found that having him count to ten distracts him enough to be

more still) and I give the shot. I try to give it practically

horizontally, but I still get pinkish urine. I'm sure my technique

is not perfect, but not sure what I can do to not have pink urine.

My son is very lean, but does have some subcu fat. I've even given

it so shallowly that you see a blue spot under the skin - but even

then, he's had pinkish urine the next morning.

> > Maurine,

> >

Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots. You might try

moving your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's sleeping and

not giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on his tummy, then

work up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him to all that.

And then get very fast with that needle! We got instructions that

said to do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take only 1 or

2 seconds to give the shot. Hope that helps.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I've even given

> it so shallowly that you see a blue spot under the skin - but even

> then, he's had pinkish urine the next morning.

>

>

We had the same problem, our DAN! doc suggested giving the the shot

every 4th day and TD-B12 every other day. This seems to be working

quite well.

[Guest guest]

Get a script for EMLA cream. It

desensitizes them and they won’t even wake up when you give him the

shot. Works great for us!

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of meh96

Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005

2:51 PM

EOHarm

Subject: B12 shots

Maurine,

Sleeping is the best time for us to do the shots.

You might try moving

your grandson to his tummy a few times while he's

sleeping and not

giving the shot. Just soothe him back to sleep on

his tummy, then work

up to exposing his bottom--kind of desensitize him

to all that. And

then get very fast with that needle! We got

instructions that said to

do it at a 15 degree angle and that it should take

only 1 or 2 seconds

to give the shot. Hope that helps.

> I also need a person adept with methyl B12

shots-after giving two to

my grandson(and I am alone doing it unless you can

count his 5 year

old brother)he now refuses and can get

violent(yes, violent about it)

so i tried when he's asleep---but he sleeps on his

back and by the

time I turn him over-he's half awake, yelling No

and hanging on to his

butt. Maurine

[Guest guest]

Usually 1000 mcg and once a month, I think. - though I've heard that with RNY

patients, by the end of the month, their B12 levels can get borderline low.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

B12 shots

Hi,

I'm sorry if I missed the reply to this question but what is the

typical dose of a B12 shot and how often is it usually recommended?

Thanks!

-Dara

Dara Bergen, RD

www.darabergen.com

[Guest guest]

I know I read somewhere that B12 is absorbed more if given by

injection rather than pills. Does anyone know anything about this.

My naturopath gave me 6 weeks of B12 shots once a week this past

summer. She did not make this comment though but I do not remember

where I heard it.

Venizia

[Guest guest]

Hi Venezia,

It's reckonned to be the antibodies to 'intrinsic factor' that prevent

the absorbtion of vit B12.

I saw that folic acid forms a protein 'CUB' that is also involved in

the process of absorbtion of vit B12.

In the bewildering world of GP's mis-conceptions, the use of folic acid

as an supplement can hide the deficit of vit B12 until it's too late to

correct nerve damage arising from that low vit B12.....

An anti-folate regimen is used in treating some cancers, so the other

part of the misconception is that folic acid must present an undue risk

if it's prescribed (except if you're pregnant, of course).

The truth of the matter is that you actually need an adequate level of

folate for the anti-folate treatment to work against folate-sensitive

cancers !

Now where was I?

best wishes

Bob

as you get older, the level of intrinsic factor appears to go down;

that may be due to low folate levels, itself...crazy!!!!

you can't win, if the mis-conceptions all line up against your well-

being.

>

> I know I read somewhere that B12 is absorbed more if given by

> injection rather than pills. Does anyone know anything about this.

> My naturopath gave me 6 weeks of B12 shots once a week this past

> summer. She did not make this comment though but I do not remember

> where I heard it.

>

> Venizia

>

[Guest guest]

hmmmm, interesting. Thanks so much!

Venizia

>

> Hi Venezia,

>

> It's reckonned to be the antibodies to 'intrinsic factor' that prevent

> the absorbtion of vit B12.

>

> I saw that folic acid forms a protein 'CUB' that is also involved in

> the process of absorbtion of vit B12.

>

> In the bewildering world of GP's mis-conceptions, the use of folic acid

> as an supplement can hide the deficit of vit B12 until it's too late to

> correct nerve damage arising from that low vit B12.....

>

> An anti-folate regimen is used in treating some cancers, so the other

> part of the misconception is that folic acid must present an undue risk

> if it's prescribed (except if you're pregnant, of course).

>

> The truth of the matter is that you actually need an adequate level of

> folate for the anti-folate treatment to work against folate-sensitive

> cancers !

>

> Now where was I?

>

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

> as you get older, the level of intrinsic factor appears to go down;

> that may be due to low folate levels, itself...crazy!!!!

>

> you can't win, if the mis-conceptions all line up against your well-

> being.

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Ah ok, that's where I heard it then. Because they suspected my

husband had pernicious anemia and they said if he did, he would need

B12 shots. Luckily, he did not have it. Thanks for the memory jolt,

Chuck.

Venizia

> >

> >

> > I know I read somewhere that B12 is absorbed more if given by

> > injection rather than pills....

>

> Pernicious anemia is caused by malabsorption of B-12. If you have that,

> only injections will help.

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Venizia,

Does your husband have a high MCV count? (very large red blood

corpuscles)

Just before they diagnosed me as Hypo, I was found to be

macrocytostic with a high MCV volume. I remember I was tested for B12

deficiency as they thought I might have pernicious anemia. Happily I

didn't!

Just wondered if you were aware of this link.

Gillian

>

> Ah ok, that's where I heard it then. Because they suspected my

> husband had pernicious anemia and they said if he did, he would need

> B12 shots. Luckily, he did not have it. Thanks for the memory jolt,

> Chuck.

>

> Venizia

[Guest guest]

Hi Gillian,

I have no idea. I doubt it though because he has had complete

physicals and he just had double hernia surgery and no one every said

anything. Does it require a special test to find out? He did not have

pernicious anemia.

Venizia

> >

> > Ah ok, that's where I heard it then. Because they suspected my

> > husband had pernicious anemia and they said if he did, he would need

> > B12 shots. Luckily, he did not have it. Thanks for the memory jolt,

> > Chuck.

> >

> > Venizia

>

[Guest guest]

http://ajprenal.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/291/1/F22

The kidney in vitamin B12 and folate homeostasis: characterization of receptors for tubular uptake of vitamins and carrier proteins.Birn H.Department of Cell Biology, Institute of Anatomy, University of Aarhus, Bldg. 234, DK-8000 Aarhus C, Denmark. hb@...Over the past 10 years, animal studies have uncovered the molecular mechanisms for the renal tubular recovery of filtered vitamin and vitamin carrier proteins. Relatively few endocytic receptors are responsible for the proximal tubule uptake of a number of different vitamins, preventing urinary losses. In addition to vitamin conservation, tubular uptake by endocytosis is important to vitamin metabolism and homeostasis. The present review focuses on the receptors involved in renal tubular recovery of folate, vitamin B12, and their carrier proteins. The multiligand receptor megalin is important for the uptake and tubular accumulation of vitamin B12. During vitamin load, the kidney accumulates large amounts of free vitamin B12, suggesting a possible storage function. In addition, vitamin B12 is metabolized in the kidney, suggesting a role in vitamin homeostasis. The folate receptor is important for the conservation of folate, mediating endocytosis of the vitamin. Interaction between the structurally closely related, soluble folate-binding protein and megalin suggests that megalin plays an additional role in the uptake of folate bound to filtered folate-binding protein. A third endocytic receptor, the intrinsic factor-B12 receptor cubilin-amnionless complex, is essential to the renal tubular uptake of albumin, a carrier of folate. In conclusion, uptake is mediated by interaction with specific endocytic receptors also involved in the renal uptake of other vitamins and vitamin carriers. Little is known about the mechanisms regulating intracellular transport and release of vitamins, and whereas tubular uptake is a constitutive process, this may be regulated, e.g., by vitamin status.Publication Types:

Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't Review

PMID: 16760376 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>> I know I read somewhere that B12 is absorbed more if given by> injection rather than pills. Does anyone know anything about this. > My naturopath gave me 6 weeks of B12 shots once a week this past> summer. She did not make this comment though but I do not remember> where I heard it. > > Venizia>

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

No special test is required. A high MCV count of the red blood

corpuscles should be picked up in a full blood count test. The normal

range is 100 (I think?) anything over this and you are labelled as

Macrocytostic. If you go the other way they call it Microcytostic..(not

sure what the cut off is for this one.

I would have thought that if your husband has just had an operation it

would have been picked up....I would hope so anyway.

Gillian

--- In thyroid treatment , " venizia1948 "

Does it require a special test to find out? He did not have

> pernicious anemia.

>

> Venizia

>

[Guest guest]

Good! Thanks. I am glad you brought it to my attention anyway. It may

help someone else who reads this.

Venizia

>

>

> Hi again,

>

> No special test is required. A high MCV count of the red blood

> corpuscles should be picked up in a full blood count test. The normal

> range is 100 (I think?) anything over this and you are labelled as

> Macrocytostic. If you go the other way they call it Microcytostic..(not

> sure what the cut off is for this one.

>

> I would have thought that if your husband has just had an operation it

> would have been picked up....I would hope so anyway.

>

> Gillian

>

> --- In thyroid treatment , " venizia1948 "

>

> Does it require a special test to find out? He did not have

> > pernicious anemia.

> >

> > Venizia

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gillian

The normal reference range on my results for MCV is 80-98.

Chris

>

>

> Hi again,

>

> No special test is required. A high MCV count of the red blood

> corpuscles should be picked up in a full blood count test. The

normal

> range is 100 (I think?) anything over this and you are labelled as

> Macrocytostic. If you go the other way they call it Microcytostic..

(not

> sure what the cut off is for this one.

>

> I would have thought that if your husband has just had an

operation it

> would have been picked up....I would hope so anyway.

>

> Gillian

>