Re: REAL POWEFULL MAGNETIC PULSE (papimi)

[Guest guest]

The Papimi magnetic pulser is the top of the crop it outputs 125

GAUSS!!

and pulses 3 times a second!!!

Sota needs to make a pulser just as powerfull as the Papimi pulser

but then smaller in size.

> Without knocking any of the devices we use ( and YES I use Beck

> devices too) THE MOTHER OF ALL ELECTROTHERAPY is the PAPIMI.

> www.papimi.gr IF ONLY I could have one at home. Since I

discovered

> that machine I can not sleep at night the same way

> The bigest disadvantage of this machine is ITS PRICE $50K

> I am asking Russ from SOTA and other makers to commend on the pulse

> that machine puts out. WHAT would it take to create a pulse like

this?

> That machine is real bulky (size of a trunk) on wheels and at about

> 100 Lbs !!! Its heart is a plasma chamber (THYRATRON) where the

> sparks fly and a big two turn only flexible coil to apply the

energy.

> Tremendous antiinflamatory qualities. Even pills dont work that fast

> The purpose of this message is NOT to praise PAPIMI but to see if

any

> of the techs that write here can tell us WHAT WILL IT TAKE to build

> one in materials and cost ?

> M. Forrest does not write here anymore btw ? I would like to hear

> that builder's opinion.

[Guest guest]

I have looked at replicating the PAP-IMI device and with

correspondence with my electronics guru, we came up with a plan to

build a similar device. I figured it would retail for about $3-5,000

USD. The biggest drawback to selling such a unit is government

regulations. Plus the unit would definitely have to have CSA and/or

UL and or CE certification. Although quite doable, it would not be

economically viable unless you had studies to go with it.

Russ :>)

> > Without knocking any of the devices we use ( and YES I use Beck

> > devices too) THE MOTHER OF ALL ELECTROTHERAPY is the PAPIMI.

> > www.papimi.gr IF ONLY I could have one at home. Since I

> discovered

> > that machine I can not sleep at night the same way

> > The bigest disadvantage of this machine is ITS PRICE $50K

> > I am asking Russ from SOTA and other makers to commend on the

pulse

> > that machine puts out. WHAT would it take to create a pulse like

> this?

> > That machine is real bulky (size of a trunk) on wheels and at

about

> > 100 Lbs !!! Its heart is a plasma chamber (THYRATRON) where the

> > sparks fly and a big two turn only flexible coil to apply the

> energy.

> > Tremendous antiinflamatory qualities. Even pills dont work that

fast

> > The purpose of this message is NOT to praise PAPIMI but to see if

> any

> > of the techs that write here can tell us WHAT WILL IT TAKE to

build

> > one in materials and cost ?

> > M. Forrest does not write here anymore btw ? I would like to

hear

> > that builder's opinion.

[Guest guest]

TO RUSS FROM SOTA:

3-5K $ is quite some ways apart from 50K $ the papimi sells for.

They claim its hand made in Greece thats why it is so pricy, IS THAT

believable ? or are they making a huge profit?

Could you tell us how to make a homemade version then IN THEORY

ALLWAYS....since Sota is not gona make one ?

Finaly, Is it that difficult to make your sota pulser go a bit

faster? like one pulse a sec. at least. One per 3sec. is slow, and I

have a feeling faster pulse rate will bring better results.

To the person that wrote the line below:

> >

> > The Papimi magnetic pulser is the top of the crop it outputs 125

> > GAUSS!!

I get the impression that you think 125 Gauss is a lot !!!???

ITS NOTHING a home magnet puts out 5000Gauss. SO does the Sota pulser

The " trick " the papimi does is not its high magnetic output BUT its

NANOSECONDS fast pulse (duration) it discharges and of course the 3

pulses per sec.

Another interesting observation I made is the static discharge the

papimi causes the human body to produce. COULD AN OLD style Static

electricity generator replicate the papimi ?

[Guest guest]

I have no problem sharing the info I have on what could be a pap-imi

on the cheap. I will upload a Word document my friend e-mailed to me

to the " files " section of this group.

As for making our MPG pulse faster, again you are hitting a physics

barrier. For the Gauss output delivery, you need to pump about 150

amps through the coil. In order to do this, you need to charge the

main capacitor up to over 330Volts. We charge to 350VDC. The capacity

of our capacitor is 600uF. In order to charge a 600uF capacitor to

350 Volts, one needs to supply aboout 40 Joules of energy. In order

to supply this amount of energy in 1 second you would need 40 Watts

of power. At 70% power supply efficiency, you will need to draw 57

Watts. If you plan on using a 12 Volt DC power source like a wall

transformer, you would need to draw 4.8 Amps. A 5 amp 12VDC wall

transformer is very expensive. Furthermore, the internal power supply

for the MPG would have to be majorily beefed up to handle 5 amps of

current at 12 VDC. Our MPG wall adapter supplies 1.5 amps. That is

why it takes 3-4 seconds to charge the unit.

Now, if one were to instead charge the capacitor to say only

250Volts, then you would be able to charge it in say 1.5 seconds as

the formula for energy is 1/2CV^2 which is a squared function. In

other words it takes way more energy to charge to 350 V rather than

250 V. The drawback is your Gauss output is severely reduced as well!

No free lunch!

Bottom line is faster charge = lower output if the power supply

remains the same.

The " best " way to charge a strobe style capacitor is to charge it

directly from the 110VAC coming out of the wall. I can build a MPG

with the same Gauss output that would charge up in 1/10th of a

second! However, as a manufacturer I face several barriers:

1) Safety. Running directly from the 110VAC presents an extreme

electrocutiuon hazzard. The unit would have to be totally isolated

from the mains with some kind of transformer. This transformer would

have to be substantial in order to be able to deliver the required

power to charge the cap fast. Remember, for a 1 second charge time we

need about 57 Watts.

2) Government Regulations UL/CSA. Anything that plugs into the wal

directly needs to have passed strict safety standards of UL and/or

CSA and/or CE and/or C-Tick, etc., etc. Otherwise they are illegal to

sell.

3) Cost. So, doing all this is quite possible. However, how many

orders of the wall-powered MPG would I sell (knowing that the Gauss

output was identical to the current model) that had a 1 second charge

time rather than 3.5 seconds if the price of the wall-powered MPG was

now $1,000 US?

That's why when I read of fast-charging Mag Pulsers I know that

something has been compromised. Most likely the Gauss output is

dismal and does not meet Dr. Beck's minimum standards set years ago.

I know our MPG works with the Gauss output it has. I cannot and will

not compromise its performance. Believe me I would love to be able to

have a faster charge time. But at what cost to the person using the

unit? Maybe a tumour that would otherwise shrink would now start to

grow? As you can see, there are many mitigating factors at play.

However as time goes on research will continue in this fascinating

field. Perhaps there will be discovered the optimal Gausss output for

specific diseases and ailments.

Hope this helps!

Russ :>)

> > > The Papimi magnetic pulser is the top of the crop it outputs

125

> > > GAUSS!!

>

> I get the impression that you think 125 Gauss is a lot !!!???

> ITS NOTHING a home magnet puts out 5000Gauss. SO does the Sota

pulser

> The " trick " the papimi does is not its high magnetic output BUT its

> NANOSECONDS fast pulse (duration) it discharges and of course the 3

> pulses per sec.

>

> Another interesting observation I made is the static discharge the

> papimi causes the human body to produce. COULD AN OLD style Static

> electricity generator replicate the papimi ?

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU Russ for the block diagram in re: papimi on the cheap.

Allthough its informative, I can not see how one can build it that

way. I would need values for the parts. I should have left the " in

theory " part out )

ON the issue of more pulses per second, I at least dont ask for it

just to do the treatment faster BUT because I think the biological

effect, up to 3 pulses per second is more diverse and beneficial.

I dont think there is much worry about negative effects, since much

higher pulse rates have been used with the FDA's blessings.

The neotonus magnetic pulser www.neotonus.com is FDA aproved and has

a pulse of 0.5 T (5000 Gauss) and can reach way over 3 pulses a second

Do you know that machine ? I wonder how that one is build. Allthough

its not as pricy as the papimi, its still way up there.

[Guest guest]

Hopefully the block diagram will give those versed in the art

something of a base to work from. I would suspect it would cost me

about $5,000 to prototype a working model. I cannot justify this at

present, but if someone out there with $5,000 burning a hole in their

pocket......

:>)

I am not opposed to faster pulses per second, quite the contrary! I

was simply pointing out the physical barriers needed to be overcome

in order to do this. I would love to have my MPG charge up in 1

second or less. I am sure one day I will introduce a practitioner

series of the instruments that cost more and pulse very fast.

Cheers!

Russ :>)

> THANK YOU Russ for the block diagram in re: papimi on the cheap.

> Allthough its informative, I can not see how one can build it that

> way. I would need values for the parts. I should have left the " in

> theory " part out )

> ON the issue of more pulses per second, I at least dont ask for it

> just to do the treatment faster BUT because I think the biological

> effect, up to 3 pulses per second is more diverse and beneficial.

> I dont think there is much worry about negative effects, since much

> higher pulse rates have been used with the FDA's blessings.

> The neotonus magnetic pulser www.neotonus.com is FDA aproved and

has

> a pulse of 0.5 T (5000 Gauss) and can reach way over 3 pulses a

second

> Do you know that machine ? I wonder how that one is build.

Allthough

> its not as pricy as the papimi, its still way up there.