Re: U.S. flu report predicts chaos

[Guest guest]

is it really the White House who gives these predictions how bad+likely a pandemic

might be ? It's also(+mainly) the interviews by scientists, the conferences,

the studies which come in. And this is international.

[Guest guest]

I take this story title cum grano salis (with a dose of salt). I would

not be surprised if we discover that the worse the war (in Iraq) news

and the worse the GOP corruption scandal news, the worse the White

House tells us bird flu is going to be.

I grant that bird flu would be bad if and when it mutates, but they

carry this too far. Time for them to shut up and start making filter

masks that work. Do not tell me that science cannot come up with a

better filter mask if the world stops wasting money on war and devotes

itself to fighting pandemics.

[Guest guest]

The way it goes is this:

The Party in control of the US House or US Senate controls ALL of the

committee printing presses for whichever. In this case, the GOP

controls both the House and the Senate, plus, they control the White

House too. So the GOP controls lots of printing presses which issue

lots of free publications. So the amount of studies and press

releases etc that roll off of the Congressional office and White

House printing presses is large. So the GOP can have enormous impact

now on whatever issue they want. And bird flu is a great way to

steal press coverage from GOP scandals. So yes, I expect that they

will try to push hysteria to some extent. They will do anything they

can to divert attention from scandal.

There was a great joke a while ago: Queen is a figurehead

for the British government; she has no power. Sort of like the

Democratic Party Stateside.

And there is a lot of truth to this. No Democratic studies or

reports will come out of the Congress or White House today. The

Democratic Party has been silenced for the moment.

[Guest guest]

In this country, alas, it seems the White House drives the news. Our press is often a bit less than unbiased in its reportage. What the press reports is not the actual scientific information nor information about what people can actually do to protect themselves from infection (and from spreading it), but rather takes the most dramatic items from these reports and then embellishes them with a "disaster at your doorsteps" veneer. It drives me crazy because all these dramatic news stories have a tendency to generate panic in people. What we don't need is panic.sterten@... wrote: is it really the White House who gives these predictions how bad+likely a pandemic might be ? It's also(+mainly) the

interviews by scientists, the conferences, the studies which come in. And this is international. . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr.Seuss . It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. - Duke

Ellington . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

,

Can you point to even one story that claimed that the worst case

will definitely become a reality? I have not seen one myself.

Virtually every story I read is factual and has the disclaimer that

there is no guarantee that a pandemic will occur but that it is a

worry. You keep saying that the media is blowing this out of

proportion, but it doesn't look that way to me. How about some

examples to back up that claim?

-- Don

I take this story title cum

grano salis (with a dose of salt). I would

> not be surprised if we discover that the worse the war (in Iraq)

news

> and the worse the GOP corruption scandal news, the worse the White

> House tells us bird flu is going to be.

>

> I grant that bird flu would be bad if and when it mutates, but

they

> carry this too far. Time for them to shut up and start making

filter

> masks that work. Do not tell me that science cannot come up with

a

> better filter mask if the world stops wasting money on war and

devotes

> itself to fighting pandemics.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You just have to look at the words they use in their stories. They tend to inflame rather than to inform. And from the things I've seen in TV news the disclaimer you mention isn't always stated clearly enough. My concern is that people have the facts and then know what to do with those facts. Don <DCFrench@...> wrote: ,Can you point to even one story that claimed that the worst case will definitely become a reality? I have not seen one myself. Virtually every story I read is factual and has the disclaimer that there is no guarantee that a pandemic will occur but that it is a worry. You keep saying that the media is blowing this out of proportion, but it doesn't look that way to me. How about some examples to back up that claim?--

Don I take this story title cum grano salis (with a dose of salt). I would > not be surprised if we discover that the worse the war (in Iraq) news > and the worse the GOP corruption scandal news, the worse the White > House tells us bird flu is going to be.> > I grant that bird flu would be bad if and when it mutates, but they > carry this too far. Time for them to shut up and start making filter > masks that work. Do not tell me that science

cannot come up with a > better filter mask if the world stops wasting money on war and devotes > itself to fighting pandemics.> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Disclaimers are not of much value when you print a story like this:

Bird flu plan for 'mass graves'

Plans for mass burials are being considered as part of Home Office

preparations for a possible bird flu pandemic, reports the Sunday

Times.

It cites a confidential report that says a " prudent worst case "

assessment suggested 320,000 could die if the H5N1 virus mutated into

a human form.

The document warns " there are likely to be substantially more deaths

than can be managed within current timescales " .

The Home Office said it did not respond to leaks but is making

preparations.

A spokesman said: " Prudent precautionary planning is under way across

all elements of the response, including the health service, other

essential services and local authorities. "

The H5N1 virus, which causes bird flu, does not pose a large-scale

threat to humans, as it cannot pass easily from one person to

another.

'Common burial'

Experts, however, fear the virus could mutate at some point in the

future, and in its new form trigger a flu pandemic, potentially

putting millions of human lives at risk.

Any such mutation and subsequent pandemic would lead to delays of up

to 17 weeks in burying or cremating victims, the document - said to

have been discussed by a cabinet committee - states.

And the document warns the prospect of " common burial " would stir up

images of the mass pits used to bury victims of the Great Plague in

1665.

However, it " might involve a large number of coffins buried in the

same place at the same time, in such a way that allowed for

individual graves to be marked " .

The report suggests town halls could deal with what it refers to as

a " base case " of 48,000 deaths in England and Wales in a 15-week

pandemic.

'Strong plans'

Titled Managing Excess Deaths in an Influenza Pandemic and dated 22

March, according to the Sunday Times the document says vaccines would

not be available at least for " the first wave " of a pandemic and

would not be a " silver bullet " .

The newspaper claimed ministers discussed the issue last week and,

although they were alarmed at the prospect of such delays to burials,

accepted there might be no option in the event of a mass outbreak.

Bird flu has already prompted the slaughter of millions of birds

across three continents since the H5N1 strain emerged three years

ago.

And it has claimed the lives of more than 100 humans - all of whom

had been in close contact with infected birds.

Chief Medical Officer Sir Liam son has said preparing for a

pandemic was " a top priority " and " strong plans " were in place to

respond.

These plans include building a stockpile of 14.6 million doses of

anti-viral drugs to treat those who fall ill during a pandemic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4869224.stm

>

> ,

>

> Can you point to even one story that claimed that the worst case

> will definitely become a reality? I have not seen one myself.

> Virtually every story I read is factual and has the disclaimer that

> there is no guarantee that a pandemic will occur but that it is a

> worry. You keep saying that the media is blowing this out of

> proportion, but it doesn't look that way to me. How about some

> examples to back up that claim?

>

> -- Don

[Guest guest]

Examples?

> You just have to look at the words they use in their stories. They

tend to inflame rather than to inform.

And what exactly is your worry if people do become frightened? What

are the feared consequences of a panic response? That peopele will

all go out and buy a few months of groceries and water and medical

supplies and store them in their basements? Is that a bad result?

I am sorry, but I have to take the opposite side of this. The media

has not done enough to scare people. Pandemic influenza has the

potential to be the worst thing to happen on Earth in recorded

history. We WANT people to become frightened. It IS scary. People

need to get off their complacent butts and begin to prepare for the

worst case now. I hope everyone watches the movie tonight and gets

good and goddamned scared. Maybe then things will start happening

and people will start asking their local governments what they are

doing to prepare for this very real threat. Maybe then we will see

some realistic disaster planning. Maybe then we will see pressure on

the federal government to invest in development of safe and useful

masks and really start pouring money into research for a prevention

and a cure. But even if none of that happens, if people become

scared enough to prepare themselves and their families for an

extended period of social isolation, then some good will come of it.

No amount of scaring can be too much at this point in my opinion.

[Guest guest]

I see nothing wrong with this story. I guess what offended you was

the mention of mass graves, which creates an unpleasant image, even

though it is something that will certainly come to pass in a worst

case scenario. If this story catches the attention of a few of the

95% of the population who don't have a clue about bird flu and have

made no preparations, then it served a very useful purpose.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Can you point to even one story that claimed that the worst case

> > will definitely become a reality? I have not seen one myself.

> > Virtually every story I read is factual and has the disclaimer

that

> > there is no guarantee that a pandemic will occur but that it is a

> > worry. You keep saying that the media is blowing this out of

> > proportion, but it doesn't look that way to me. How about some

> > examples to back up that claim?

> >

> > -- Don

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, I'm trying to make preps. I have increased the contents of my

panty considerably. I have extra gas cans for the generator, extra

kitchen accessories, (soaps, disinfectant, salt, things like that)

but I'm seeing that this pandemic may act like the one in 1918 in

that there were 2 or three waves of outbreaks (due to mutations of

the original) that were able to burn through the population. If I

remember the book well, it said that the second wave was the worst

and you actually did better if you caught the flu from the first

wave.

and if i remember, the entire pandemic took almost 2 years to run

it's course.

Now I know that we'll have *some* vacine efforts to curb this so the

flu won't be able to run amok like it did 80 years ago.

But it begs the question... how long are people going to need to

stay home? can anybody answer that?

--- Don <DCFrench@...> wrote:

If this story catches the attention of a few of the

>

> 95% of the population who don't have a clue about bird flu and have

>

> made no preparations, then it served a very useful purpose.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Tommy,

I assume that you mean that you are increasing the contents of your

pantry, not your panty. :-)

I don't think anyone can answer your question for certain. I think

that once the food supply problem stabilizes that you would be able

to venture out if you are well masked and gloved. But that may take

a very long while. It is hard to see how food can be delivered to

the cities at least with any efficiency until there are adequate

security forces in place. I imagine that they would have to come by

military cargo planes, which would land on secure military bases to

prevent all the food ending up in the hands of the gangs. How long

before control in the cities could be seized back from the gangs is

anybody's guess. Unfortuantely, help from traditional security

organizations may be hard to come by. Local police, state police,

national guard, and the army, would have decimated ranks, and of

those left, there would probably be very high attrition as their

people become more concerned about their own health and the health

of their families than reporting to duty.

The gangs are more of an urban problem, of course. In the

countryside people will probably do much better. In fact, moving to

the country and learning self-reliance and growing much of your own

food is probably a great idea. Becoming part of a community of

people who take care of one another is also a good idea. Having a

source of water, like a well that doesn't require electricity is

another. There is a lot of information available on self-reliance,

much of it from the Mormons.

Good luck!

>

> If this story catches the attention of a few of the

> >

> > 95% of the population who don't have a clue about bird flu and

have

> >

> > made no preparations, then it served a very useful purpose.

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

The problem with a panic response is that people will not pay attention to factual information which can help them. I saw this happen when AIDS first raised its horrible head in San Francisco. Even after all the information about contacting it and preventing it was known and well-publicized many people chose to remain in a panic mode and would not go anyplace where they might come in contact with gay men. People continued to believe that you could get it from shaking hands or from toilet seats. As a matter of fact, there are still people who cling to these erroneous notions and who spread them around. Sensible preparation for an emergency is not a panic situation. How can you have your wits about you if you're in a panic?Don <DCFrench@...> wrote: Examples?> You just have to look at the words

they use in their stories. They tend to inflame rather than to inform. And what exactly is your worry if people do become frightened? What are the feared consequences of a panic response? That peopele will all go out and buy a few months of groceries and water and medical supplies and store them in their basements? Is that a bad result? I am sorry, but I have to take the opposite side of this. The media has not done enough to scare people. Pandemic influenza has the potential to be the worst thing to happen on Earth in recorded history. We WANT people to become frightened. It IS scary. People need to get off their complacent butts and begin to prepare for the worst case now. I hope everyone watches the movie tonight and gets good and goddamned scared. Maybe then things will start happening and people will start asking their local

governments what they are doing to prepare for this very real threat. Maybe then we will see some realistic disaster planning. Maybe then we will see pressure on the federal government to invest in development of safe and useful masks and really start pouring money into research for a prevention and a cure. But even if none of that happens, if people become scared enough to prepare themselves and their families for an extended period of social isolation, then some good will come of it. No amount of scaring can be too much at this point in my opinion. . Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr.Seuss . It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. - Duke Ellington . Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

I agree with you, Don. I think we need people to be scared so that

they build a fire under their political representatives. We see this

happening now with the price of gas/oil. We need political momentum

to push for change. We have a major crisis in public health that is

on our doorstep, but no one has suggested ending the War in Iraq and

then putting all of that war money into public health, but we need to

get ready for this flu and for whatever else may come next. We need

preparation on the County, State and Federal levels.

But I agree with you, , that people will panic in useless

ways. My fear is that all that the Avian flu scare will do is

generate some panic but no political change.

Examples?

>

> I am sorry, but I have to take the opposite side of this. The

media

> has not done enough to scare people. Pandemic influenza has the

> potential to be the worst thing to happen on Earth in recorded

> history. We WANT people to become frightened. It IS scary.

People

> need to get off their complacent butts and begin to prepare for the

> worst case now. I hope everyone watches the movie tonight and gets

> good and goddamned scared. Maybe then things will start happening

> and people will start asking their local governments what they are

> doing to prepare for this very real threat.

[Guest guest]

--- Don <DCFrench@...> wrote:

> Hi Tommy,

>

> I assume that you mean that you are increasing the contents of your

> pantry, not your panty. :-)

Yeah, i saw that typo just after i hit the send button.

And, Lucky me, I live in the deep countryside. I just got my

shipment of N100 masks yesterday. I'm not in a panic, but

slowly getting things done. Ever get the feeling that you

missed something thou???

Anyway: Thanks for your answer!!!

-tom

> In the

> countryside people will probably do much better. In fact, moving

> to

> the country and learning self-reliance and growing much of your own

> food is probably a great idea.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I got 2 sizes of the N95 masks, I didn’t know how many to buy,Whats a good guess on quanity?I would assume there getting harder to find.where I ordered mine only had the N95s in there last catolog.I would like some N100s too.sandy

Re: [Flu] U.S. flu report predicts chaos

--- Don <DCFrench@...> wrote:> Hi Tommy,> > I assume that you mean that you are increasing the contents of your> pantry, not your panty. :-)Yeah, i saw that typo just after i hit the send button.And, Lucky me, I live in the deep countryside. I just got myshipment of N100 masks yesterday. I'm not in a panic, butslowly getting things done. Ever get the feeling that you missed something thou???Anyway: Thanks for your answer!!!-tom> In the > countryside people will probably do much better. In fact, moving> to > the country and learning self-reliance and growing much of your own> food is probably a great idea. __________________________________________________