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Dr. Mercola has been saying phytic acid is GOOD because it chelates iron, and

excessive iron is a cause of heart disease. Any thoughts?

My opinion is that this iron-heart disease connection should be looked into

further by trying to compare organic and inorganic iron, because I have seen

in many, many, places, even from nutritionists that recommend massive amounts

of synthetic vitamins, that inorganic iron works completely different than

organic, interferes with vitamin E abosrption, etc. Also, vitamin E seems to

be connected to heart disease.

Considering all the white " enriched " flour Americans eat, I wouldn't be

surprised if the MAJORITY of the iron in the SAD was inorganic. Mercola said

that the reason whole grains don't have the heart-disease promoting effect

that refined grains do is perhaps because of the phytic acid. However, it

seems to me more likely that it is because they haven't been " enriched " with

inorganic iron, and also they contain vitamin E, which " enriched " flour isn't

enriched with.

Oh, and also, if the excessive iron is from meat products, it makes no sense

that 65% animal product-eating hunter and gatherers that had no phytic acid

in their diet wouldn't have the iron problems that Americans do from lack of

phytic acid if the problem is iron from meat.

Considering the way I feel on soaked oats versus unsoaked oats and sprouted

bread versus whole grain unsprouted bread, I find it hard to believe phytic

acid is good for regular consumption.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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,

Mercola himself has written numerous things in favor of phytic acid. I was

referring to an article that's either in this week's or last week's

newsletter, by Mercola himself. It wasn't pro-soy.

Chris

In a message dated 12/23/02 12:34:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

paul@... writes:

> Actually, it wasn't Mercola, but a Mr. Bill Sardi - someone who is obviously

> pro-soy.

>

> The response to Mr. Sardi's column (by Sally & ) is here:

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm

>

> I performed a search on Mercola's site for " phytic acid " and came up with

> 20+ articles, only Sardi's was pro-soy, pro-phytic acid.

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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In a message dated 12/23/02 12:55:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

paul@... writes:

> Thanks Suze - Sorry I missed that one.

> In light of this, I wonder what Sally's latest position is?

I wonder what she thinks of it too. Though I don't see any reason to change

her position, because, per the reasons I already gave, I think Mercol'a

position is relatively groundless. He previously had an article on that said

the average h & g diet was 65% animal, and the rest vegetables. Did hunter and

gatherers have epidemics of heart disease from not having any phytic acid in

their diet? I doubt it. I love Dr. Mercola, but think he's jumping the gun

on this one.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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Hi Marla,

That is interesting. I think that unsoaked wheat could definitely have

health benefits because it is very high in vitamin E, and has other vitamins,

which neither the phytates or enzyme inhibitors that soaking neutralizes

would effect. I think that getting rid of the phytates would probably

maximize the benefit by releasing minerals but people who consume whole

grains in our own society have a clear benefit over those who consume refined

grains, and I doubt it is all due to a slighlty lower GI. Still, people who

get rid of phytates in their grains are not less healthy, nor are people who

don't consume any grains, so I doubt the benefit is phytic acid.

I think someone who has excessive iron would definitely benefit by chelating

it with phytic acid supplements, but I have strong doubts about using phytic

acid as a regularly consumed preventative.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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In a message dated 12/23/02 4:20:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Dpdg@... writes:

> I think Mercola's article in his last newsletter makes it quite clear that

> the benefits of ingesting phytic acid are directed ONLY at people who have

> EXCESS iron (serum ferritin)... Mercola suggested taking a supplement of

rice

> bran to achieve the reduction in iron absorption.

Dedy,

If that were the case, I'd agree with him. However, he didn't only direct it

at people with excess iron. He clearly stated that he believes the reason

consumption of whole grains is not tied to heart disease like consumption of

refined grains is is because whole grains contain phytic acid-- that phytic

acid is beneficial for most people in the developed world to curb excessive

iron, consumed in food. The supplement, on the other hand, he also

recommended, and that pertained, as you said, to people with diagnosed iron

excess only.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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>>>>>>Actually, it wasn't Mercola, but a Mr. Bill Sardi - someone who is

obviously

pro-soy.

The response to Mr. Sardi's column (by Sally & ) is here:

http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm

I performed a search on Mercola's site for " phytic acid " and came up with

20+ articles, only Sardi's was pro-soy, pro-phytic acid.

--------------->Well, perhaps he recently changed his mind? Here's a quote

from Mercola himself in his latest newsletter:

" Grains do provide some benefit, and it is becoming very clear to me that

the phytic acid content of grains, which has long been considered to be an

anti-nutrient, may in fact be one of the major benefits of grains. Phtyic

acid is only in whole grains; it is virtually stripped out of refined

grains.

Phytic acid is likely beneficial as it reduces iron levels. As I have been

mentioning recently, increased iron levels is one of the most significant

health threats to which many of us are exposed. "

http://www.mercola.com/2002/dec/21/no_grain_diet.htm

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

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Actually, it wasn't Mercola, but a Mr. Bill Sardi - someone who is obviously

pro-soy.

The response to Mr. Sardi's column (by Sally & ) is here:

http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm

I performed a search on Mercola's site for " phytic acid " and came up with

20+ articles, only Sardi's was pro-soy, pro-phytic acid.

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

< >

Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:20 PM

Subject: mercola on phytic acid

> Dr. Mercola has been saying phytic acid is GOOD because it chelates iron,

and

> excessive iron is a cause of heart disease. Any thoughts?

>

> My opinion is that this iron-heart disease connection should be looked

into

> further by trying to compare organic and inorganic iron, because I have

seen

> in many, many, places, even from nutritionists that recommend massive

amounts

> of synthetic vitamins, that inorganic iron works completely different than

> organic, interferes with vitamin E abosrption, etc. Also, vitamin E seems

to

> be connected to heart disease.

>

> Considering all the white " enriched " flour Americans eat, I wouldn't be

> surprised if the MAJORITY of the iron in the SAD was inorganic. Mercola

said

> that the reason whole grains don't have the heart-disease promoting effect

> that refined grains do is perhaps because of the phytic acid. However, it

> seems to me more likely that it is because they haven't been " enriched "

with

> inorganic iron, and also they contain vitamin E, which " enriched " flour

isn't

> enriched with.

>

> Oh, and also, if the excessive iron is from meat products, it makes no

sense

> that 65% animal product-eating hunter and gatherers that had no phytic

acid

> in their diet wouldn't have the iron problems that Americans do from lack

of

> phytic acid if the problem is iron from meat.

>

> Considering the way I feel on soaked oats versus unsoaked oats and

sprouted

> bread versus whole grain unsprouted bread, I find it hard to believe

phytic

> acid is good for regular consumption.

>

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds,

and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight

of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of

the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

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Thanks Suze - Sorry I missed that one.

In light of this, I wonder what Sally's latest position is?

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

< >

Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:43 PM

Subject: RE: mercola on phytic acid

> >>>>>>Actually, it wasn't Mercola, but a Mr. Bill Sardi - someone who is

> obviously

> pro-soy.

>

> The response to Mr. Sardi's column (by Sally & ) is here:

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm

>

> I performed a search on Mercola's site for " phytic acid " and came up with

> 20+ articles, only Sardi's was pro-soy, pro-phytic acid.

>

>

> --------------->Well, perhaps he recently changed his mind? Here's a quote

> from Mercola himself in his latest newsletter:

>

> " Grains do provide some benefit, and it is becoming very clear to me that

> the phytic acid content of grains, which has long been considered to be an

> anti-nutrient, may in fact be one of the major benefits of grains. Phtyic

> acid is only in whole grains; it is virtually stripped out of refined

> grains.

>

>

> Phytic acid is likely beneficial as it reduces iron levels. As I have been

> mentioning recently, increased iron levels is one of the most significant

> health threats to which many of us are exposed. "

> http://www.mercola.com/2002/dec/21/no_grain_diet.htm

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

>

>

>

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That's interesting regarding the phytic acid because regarding the Hunza's,

it appears that they just ground up their wheat and made bread *without*

soaking first. According the G.T.Wrench in The Wheel of Health the Hunza's

were very healthy which he attributed partly to their wheat consumption.

The phytic acid didn't seem to have hurt the Hunzas at the time. BUT, I

think Banik, who wrote Hunza Land, mentions that the Hunzas did eat lots of

sprouts aside from wheat.

Marla

P.S. Just because Sardi appears pro-soy doesn't mean that everything he

thinks is wrong. Also, Sardi has done studies on iron and wrote the Iron

Time Bomb, so maybe he's just looking at the benefit of phytic acid for iron

control in the body and hasn't weighed the other down sides of phytic acid.

> The response to Mr. Sardi's column (by Sally & ) is here:

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/soy.htm

>

> I performed a search on Mercola's site for " phytic acid " and came up with

> 20+ articles, only Sardi's was pro-soy, pro-phytic acid.

>

>

> --------------->Well, perhaps he recently changed his mind? Here's a quote

> from Mercola himself in his latest newsletter:

>

> " Grains do provide some benefit, and it is becoming very clear to me that

> the phytic acid content of grains, which has long been considered to be an

> anti-nutrient, may in fact be one of the major benefits of grains. Phtyic

> acid is only in whole grains; it is virtually stripped out of refined

> grains.

>

>

> Phytic acid is likely beneficial as it reduces iron levels. As I have been

> mentioning recently, increased iron levels is one of the most significant

> health threats to which many of us are exposed. "

> http://www.mercola.com/2002/dec/21/no_grain_diet.htm

>

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I think Mercola's article in his last newsletter makes it quite clear that the

benefits of ingesting phytic acid are directed ONLY at people who have EXCESS

iron (serum ferritin)... Mercola suggested taking a supplement of rice bran to

achieve the reduction in iron absorption.

I've managed in the past to achieve the opposite...

having been a vegetarian on a supposedly 'healthy' diet I developed severe serum

ferritin deficiency due to the high quantities of unrefined (and not soaked)

grains and soy products... no amount of iron supplements in various forms could

bring it up and it continued to plummet... 3 months from cutting soya from my

diet, eating hardly any grains and NOT taking any iron supplements... my

ferritin went up by 100% though it's still below what is considered 'normal'.

iron overload is very dangerous... a lot more than SF deficiency.

so consuming phytic acid in that context seems a positive step.

Dedy

----- Original Message -----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@...

Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: mercola on phytic acid

Hi Marla,

That is interesting. I think that unsoaked wheat could definitely have

health benefits because it is very high in vitamin E, and has other vitamins,

which neither the phytates or enzyme inhibitors that soaking neutralizes

would effect. I think that getting rid of the phytates would probably

maximize the benefit by releasing minerals but people who consume whole

grains in our own society have a clear benefit over those who consume refined

grains, and I doubt it is all due to a slighlty lower GI. Still, people who

get rid of phytates in their grains are not less healthy, nor are people who

don't consume any grains, so I doubt the benefit is phytic acid.

I think someone who has excessive iron would definitely benefit by chelating

it with phytic acid supplements, but I have strong doubts about using phytic

acid as a regularly consumed preventative.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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