New member

[Guest guest]

Welcome ita!

You will find a wonderful group of caring folks here!

I had my fusion T4-L2 in 1985 and just had my rods removed in April

of this year for painful bursitis. My curvature has not changed

since my fusion surgery 18 years ago. I went to four surgeons in

the state and chose Dr. Barton Sachs at the Texas Back Institute in

Plano. You can read about him at www.texasback.com. I think

everyone here will agree with me that you need to get at least two

(and better three) opinions from a skilled revision surgeon, meaning

a surgeon who specializes in helping those with previous harrington

rod surgeries. You will also find that many of us have had quite

different experiences with the same surgeon! It is a very personal

choice.

You will find much information in the archives of this site. You

can also enter your information in the database feature and see

other folks information (nothing too personal). You can search the

archives for " rod removal " or " revision surgery " and get loads to

read for hours!

I'm so glad you have completed your cancer treatment. A girlfriend

of mine in Plano just finished her breast cancer treatments and

seems to be doing well. I hope the same for you, dealing with

scoliosis should have been enough!

M

Waco, Texas

Fused T4-L2 Houston 1985

Rods Removed 2003

Cervical Disk removal and fusion 2003

> Hello to all: I had spinal fusion for scoliosis (T-4 through L-4

in

> 1984 with Harrington rods...had the rods removed nine months

> later). I am having a lot of lower back pain and both top and

> bottom curves have increased over the years. I have also just

> completed (Aug 14, 2003) chemo/radiation treatment for cancer.

All

> in all, I just don't feel like the same old girl I used to be.

Does

> anyone know of a really, really talented doctor in the Austin,

> Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston area who might be of some help to me

with

> my scoliosis problems. I had seen Dr. Flann here in Austin

> just prior to her death in a car accident in 2000. She had

> recommended additional fusion in the lower spine. I didn't have

> that surgery and I haven't seen anyone since. I think I need to

> have everything evaluated and go from there. Any ideas? Has

anyone

> else had a fusion and then had the rods removed?

[Guest guest]

Hello Marjorie - Supplements will be a big part of it (to speed up the

process).

However the most powerful drug is food. So what it means is that you

should consume:

MEATS - organic red meat, fish, turkey, free range chicken (in this

order)

VEGGIES - organic broccoli, organic kale, or any other HB veggies.

FATS - Barlean's high lignan flax oil, organic olive oil, fish oil,

organic walnut oil, organic almond oil

FRUITS - organic Pineapple, organic banana, Cherry concentrate in

winter, organic mango. (don't eat too much fruits)

WATER - only bottled water from a health food store! I don't mean store

brand water. (Use Trinity, Mountain Valley etc. Drink 0.6 times your

weight.

Snacks: should be avoided at all cost.

Supplements: later. What are you taking right now?

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO EAT PROPERLY?

Love

http://www.foodforyourblood.com

New Member

Hi, My name is Marjorie. I have type 0-Negative blood. I also have

Multiple Sclerosis. I am not able to sit at my computer long enough

to answer all my emails, read the messages on my group boards, and

post replies to messages the way I would like to. I am hoping I can

find some information to help me feel better.

[Guest guest]

Hi , Thanks for your help. I can't say I know how to eat

properly for my blood type. I will check out the " foodforyourblood "

website you posted. Marjorie.

> Hello Marjorie - Supplements will be a big part of it (to speed up

the

> process).

> However the most powerful drug is food. So what it means is that

you

> should consume:

> MEATS - organic red meat, fish, turkey, free range chicken (in this

> order)

> VEGGIES - organic broccoli, organic kale, or any other HB veggies.

> FATS - Barlean's high lignan flax oil, organic olive oil, fish oil,

> organic walnut oil, organic almond oil

> FRUITS - organic Pineapple, organic banana, Cherry concentrate in

> winter, organic mango. (don't eat too much fruits)

> WATER - only bottled water from a health food store! I don't mean

store

> brand water. (Use Trinity, Mountain Valley etc. Drink 0.6 times

your

> weight.

> Snacks: should be avoided at all cost.

> Supplements: later. What are you taking right now?

>

>

> DO YOU KNOW HOW TO EAT PROPERLY?

>

> Love

>

> http://www.foodforyourblood.com

>

> New Member

>

> Hi, My name is Marjorie. I have type 0-Negative blood. I also have

> Multiple Sclerosis. I am not able to sit at my computer long

enough

> to answer all my emails, read the messages on my group boards, and

> post replies to messages the way I would like to. I am hoping I

can

> find some information to help me feel better.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well give me your weight and age and I'll post what amounts you should

eat and how often.

Love

http://www.foodforyourblood.com

New Member

>

> Hi, My name is Marjorie. I have type 0-Negative blood. I also have

> Multiple Sclerosis. I am not able to sit at my computer long

enough

> to answer all my emails, read the messages on my group boards, and

> post replies to messages the way I would like to. I am hoping I

can

> find some information to help me feel better.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was glad to read this post from you, Carolyn. I hope you continue to find

this site helpful. I also hope you can appeal your insurance carrier's ruling

or find some way to have surgery with a highly experienced flatback revision

surgeon. Dr. Rand is one such surgeon, and there are others on the East Coast.

(Other group members may know of specific surgeons closer to home.)

I would like to think that we, as a group, are starting to educate insurance

administrators about the specfics of our condition and the specialized surgery

required. Getting the precertification you need for the kind of surgery you

need can be a very frustrating process indeed.

I realize you may need a surgeon who also has experience in dealing with

whatever kind of traumatic injury you may have sustained from the car accident.

If you do have flatback syndrome (HARMS, fixed sagittal imbalance), I believe

--and I expect others will agree with me -- that experience with flatback

revision, specifically, is extremely important. Unfortunately, various people at

this group have met up with any number of surgeons who were eager to correct

their flatback deformities so as to gain more experience in this area. I would

urge you to hold out for a surgeon who already has plenty of flatback revision

experience. Revision surgery is very distinct from initial scoliosis surgery

such as the operation you already had. (Your experience of losing correction

and needing surgery post-Milwaukee-brace is, alas, not at all unusual, as you

probably already know.)

I do believe you are the first person I know of to be told to wait till age 50

for flatback revision surgery. Did your surgeon give any reason for this?

Again, I want to welcome you to " feisty. " This is a great group of

scoliosis-surgery veterans, and we are enriched by the experience and viewpoint

of each new member. I hope you will find the information and support you need

from this group as you continue to research possible options.

Best,

New Member

Hello,

I would first like to tell everyone that I'm so happy that I found

this site. It is such a relief to find out that there are other

people who really understand my pain and frustrations.

My name is Carolyn and I live in Pennsylvania. I am 41 years old

and had my Harrington Rod Surgery done in 1981. I was diagnosed

with Idiopathic Scoliosis when I was twelve years old. I wore the

lovely Boston Brace until I was 19 years old. I was told I did not

need to wear it anymore because I had stopped growing. Within three

months my curve increased to 45 degrees and rotated. I was told

that I needed surgery and was fused from T10-L4. I had no pain

through these years and was able to have three children (c-

sections). And then in 1995 I was in a car accident. Thats when

all my pain began. I have been in and out of physical therapy, pain

clinics, have had the epidural injections and nothing seems to

work. Then I found out about this condition called flatback

syndrome and after reading some of the posts here it all makes

sense. I find something I have felt or thought in each post.

My doctor has told me that he would do revision surgery, but he

would prefer me to wait until I'm 50. I'm not sure I can wait that

long. Also, he does not do this surgery very often. And after

reading the post this Dr. Rand sounds like a winner. But,

unfortunately my insurance company will not allow me to go out of

plan to see him. They said that I have to see a doctor in

Pennsylvania. I have called two very well know ortho surgeons

here but they are refusing to see me. Well thats my story.

Carolyn (crazimama)

Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment

Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any

advertised products.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'm a new member, too, and I have not introduced myself yet. But I'd like

to know from Carolyn - did you have the flatback from day one after the

Harrington Rod surgery, or did you just get it since the car accident?

Thanks,

Carla

New Member

Hello,

I would first like to tell everyone that I'm so happy that I found

this site. It is such a relief to find out that there are other

people who really understand my pain and frustrations.

My name is Carolyn and I live in Pennsylvania. I am 41 years old

and had my Harrington Rod Surgery done in 1981. I was diagnosed

with Idiopathic Scoliosis when I was twelve years old. I wore the

lovely Boston Brace until I was 19 years old. I was told I did not

need to wear it anymore because I had stopped growing. Within three

months my curve increased to 45 degrees and rotated. I was told

that I needed surgery and was fused from T10-L4. I had no pain

through these years and was able to have three children (c-

sections). And then in 1995 I was in a car accident. Thats when

all my pain began. I have been in and out of physical therapy, pain

clinics, have had the epidural injections and nothing seems to

work. Then I found out about this condition called flatback

syndrome and after reading some of the posts here it all makes

sense. I find something I have felt or thought in each post.

My doctor has told me that he would do revision surgery, but he

would prefer me to wait until I'm 50. I'm not sure I can wait that

long. Also, he does not do this surgery very often. And after

reading the post this Dr. Rand sounds like a winner. But,

unfortunately my insurance company will not allow me to go out of

plan to see him. They said that I have to see a doctor in

Pennsylvania. I have called two very well know ortho surgeons

here but they are refusing to see me. Well thats my story.

Carolyn (crazimama)

Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment

Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any

advertised products.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin, welcome.

I am glad your husband seems to have found the cause of his symptoms,

at least, that is a big help. And I hope maybe he will come here and

share.

My two suggestions for you are to look into aspirin desensitization

(many files about it in our files section, usually an inpatient

procedure, often paid for as part of a research study, then you have

to take aspirin every day) ... and the leukotriene inhibitors such as

Singulair, Accolate and Zyflo. Zyflo is not currently available but

will be again.

I think Singulair or Accolate should definitely be used after surgery

to help prevent the polyps from coming back or slow their rate of

growth. I have had four sinus surgeries, but the last one was the

only one I had after Singulair was on the market. I think it is

helping a lot.

I'm sure your husband will get some relief (maybe a great deal of

relief) from surgery if it is done by a good surgeon. My surgeries

were always very successful. They cannot cure the problem but with

these new medications I think there is a lot of hope. I hate having

surgery but I never regret having it. This time in particular since

I have the Singulair I am so happy I did the surgery. The problem is

exponential, since the nasal tissues themselves can produce the

chemicals that make the polyps worse. Therefore, once the polyps are

to a certain point, they just get worse and worse because they are

sort of self-perpetuating, you know?

HTH

Lori

> Hi all, my name is Robin. I am new to your group and am here on

> behalf of my husband. I have just realized by stumbling around

that

> he has Samter's Triad. It started 10 years ago when he started

> having what they thought was GERD. I am one of those people who

> research and pay attention to things and we were able to discover

> that the GERD was actually a reaction to aspirin which he took a

lot

> of because of back pain. The GERD also was not GERD but actually

> mild asthma attacks. 4 years ago he all of a sudden developed

major

> asthma attacks which to me seemed out of the blue. He had not

taken

> aspirin or ibuprofen for years. The doctor's said it developed

> because he had a case of bronchitis which he didn't go get

diagnosed

> in short time so that is why he all of a sudden developed asthma at

> the tender age of 37. Last year he developed blinding sinus

> headaches. He always got numerous sinus infections, but one day

last

> summer he was checking out his nose because he couldn't blow it and

> we found out he had polyps. That's what we were told when we went

in

> to find out what the big fleshy thing was hanging out of his

> nostril.

>

> Anyway, come to find out now they think he has probably had them

for

> many years. The CT scan showed he was completely packed with them

in

> his frontal and ethmoid sinuses. This Friday he is going in for

> surgery to have them all removed. From the few messages I have had

a

> chance to read, it appears that these things come back quickly. He

> has been on Rhinocort since last summer. I would appreciate

anyone's

> rundown on drugs that have been tried, worked, not worked etc. I

> know from the message count that this will probably be repeat

> material, but I don't have time to read all 2000 messages. My

> husband also suffers from depression and is on anti depressants.

Has

> anyone found a correlation with these kind of drugs and this

> problem?

>

> Thanks so much for your help. Have a good evening. I don't have

the

> disease, but believe me I empathize with each and every one of

you.

> My husband has not had a day in the last couple of years where his

> head has not throbbed uncontrollably. I feel for all of you with

> this ailment.

>

> Sincerely,

> Robin

[Guest guest]

Carolyn: Welcome! I am 52, had fusion in 1984 with Harrington rods and

removal of the rods, etc., in 1985. I have just recently..in the past

four years..sought medical help for the increasing pain. So far, I have

not had any revision surgery, but anticipate that is in my future. As

for your insurance company, I recently had a similar experience. The

radiological oncologist recommended by my doctor was " out of network " so

Aetna said " no " to this particular doctor. I phoned the main office in

California, got on a three way call with the office in Texas (where I

live) and after a bit of discussion, was able to get Aetna to approve

the out of network doctor. I would suggest that you not take " no " for

an answer. Be persistent and just keep calling up the chain of command

until you get to someone who understands your particular medical

condition. Let them know they will have far more exposure by insisting

that you see a doctor with little experience in flatback and who only

performs this complicated surgery occasionally. Tell them there will

likely be far less bills to pay if your revision surgery goes well and

they can help make that a reality by approving a doctor who does this

surgery all day, every day and has a successful track record. I have a

rare cancer and this particular radiologist had treated 30 cases while

an intern at M.D. . He had far more experience than other

radiologist in my area with treating this particular type of cancer.

Once I brought all of this to the attention of the Aetna rep in

California, she overrode the local Aetna rep and approved the out of

network doctor. From my point of view, it saves Aena money in the long

run for your surgery to go well and for your recovery to be uneventful.

Good luck and let me know how it goes with the insurance company.

New Member

Hello,

I would first like to tell everyone that I'm so happy that I found

this site. It is such a relief to find out that there are other

people who really understand my pain and frustrations.

My name is Carolyn and I live in Pennsylvania. I am 41 years old

and had my Harrington Rod Surgery done in 1981. I was diagnosed

with Idiopathic Scoliosis when I was twelve years old. I wore the

lovely Boston Brace until I was 19 years old. I was told I did not

need to wear it anymore because I had stopped growing. Within three

months my curve increased to 45 degrees and rotated. I was told

that I needed surgery and was fused from T10-L4. I had no pain

through these years and was able to have three children (c-

sections). And then in 1995 I was in a car accident. Thats when

all my pain began. I have been in and out of physical therapy, pain

clinics, have had the epidural injections and nothing seems to

work. Then I found out about this condition called flatback

syndrome and after reading some of the posts here it all makes

sense. I find something I have felt or thought in each post.

My doctor has told me that he would do revision surgery, but he

would prefer me to wait until I'm 50. I'm not sure I can wait that

long. Also, he does not do this surgery very often. And after

reading the post this Dr. Rand sounds like a winner. But,

unfortunately my insurance company will not allow me to go out of

plan to see him. They said that I have to see a doctor in

Pennsylvania. I have called two very well know ortho surgeons

here but they are refusing to see me. Well thats my story.

Carolyn (crazimama)

Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment

Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any

advertised products.

_____

[Guest guest]

Hi Celia...

If you'd like to communicate with parents of children like Deirdre,

try the National Scoliosis Foundation's forum for parents & family

members of children with " other " forms of scoliosis. Here's a link:

http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?s= & forumid=102

I think you'll need to register first.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Oh, Celia,

That is such a heartbreaking story! I do not have experience with a child

with scoliosis, but only experience myself. You certainly are doing

everything within your power for your little child! If I were to recommend

anything,

it would be to get some other opinions, just to give you the opportunity to

compare, etc. There are many outstanding doctors in the field, and you

certainly are on your way to hearing about them. It is wonderful that your

daughter's curvature has decreased! And, that is due to your vigilance! You

should be

proud of yourself. Keep on reading, researching and staying aware of the

degrees of her curves. And, as I said before, try to get at least two opinions

(in addition to your doctor) from really well known doctors in the field of

scoliosis.

You and your little one will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Carole M.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I've registered with them and I've posted my story. I hope it can be

of help to someone out there.

Thank-you,

Celia

> Hi Celia...

>

> If you'd like to communicate with parents of children like Deirdre,

> try the National Scoliosis Foundation's forum for parents & family

> members of children with " other " forms of scoliosis. Here's a link:

>

> http://www.scoliosis.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?s= & forumid=102

>

> I think you'll need to register first.

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

and Janet,

Thank-you for your prayers. I wish I had a crystal ball that could

tell me how all this will end, but unfortunately I don't. All I have

are hopes that she will be straight one day and not confined to to a

brace (and endless x-rays) for the next fourteen years of her life.

I don't even want to contemplate surgery.

Celia

[Guest guest]

Martha,

Like yours, my scoliosis went untreated until I was 57. By that time, I had

two very severe curves and other complications, as well. I had known for a

while that I needed surgery, but kept putting it off while I was raising my four

children. In 1992, I was told that I was in dire trouble, and that the

surgery could wait no longer. I underwent Harrington Rod/Luque surgery at

Brigham

and Women's Hospital in Boston (T6-L5). My recuperation may have been a bit

longer than some of the younger people, but I have never regretted having the

surgery. I am absolutely convinced that it has prolonged my life! Before

surgery my upper curve was 99 degrees, and the lower was 88 degrees so, you see,

my breathing was affected.

You are still young enough to gain great benefit from surgery, and I do hope

that you will see a reputable adult scoliosis specialist...or two, or three.

This is such serious business. I wish you well and hope that you will write

again.

Sincerely,

Carole M. (the elder - there are quite a few Caroles)

[Guest guest]

Welcome, . I too am a Shriners' alum. Which hospital did you go to? I

went to the one in Springfield, MA, 1971-72.

Degenerated discs in the lower spine are unfortunately quite common in those of

us with scoliosis fusions. Often the surgeons will extend the fusion to include

the degenerated levels, though some are hopeful about the possibility of using

artificial discs for us. (I guess the discs are still experimental, and docs

are waiting for improved models.) I think there is hope that surgery will help

your pain, though I can not speak from experience. You need to see a surgeon

who specializes in the concerns of ADULT scoliosis patients. Multiple opinions

are also much to be desired for this sort of surgery.

Best of luck to you in obtaining help!

Sharon

New member

Just wanted to say hello and ask a couple of questions.

I developed scoliosis in the 3rd grade. I wore back braces for 3

years, but they never helped. When I finally have my surgery done, my

curves were at 115 top and 125 bottom. I had it done at shriners.

I was 17 when they took out my harrington and put in another that

reached my neck beacuse they were trying to stop a curve that was

forming in upper spine at the base of my neck. *smirks* It didn't

work. The rod broke loose and they had to remove it a year later.

I am now suffering from degeneration in my lower back, which is really

the only spot that moves.

My questions are, Is there any treatments that have shown to reduce

the pain?

Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment

Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any

advertised products.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Tina,

Welcome to the group. I'm sorry that you are having problems and

difficulty getting a diagnosis or plan of action. If you post your

general location, someone on this group can probably point you in the

direction of a spine specialist who is familiar with the problems

some with Harrington Rods have. In my experience, oftentimes primary

care doctors don't have a clue. Also, I was wondering how much of

your spine is currently fused (e.g., how far down)?

Best wishes to you,

loriann

[Guest guest]

Loriann, thanx for the welcome. I live roughly 20 miles west of

Baltimore, MD. I'd be grateful for any input on doctors in the area

if anyone else is close enough to know one. My fusion is from T4 to

L3, and like most others here, there is lower disk deterioration. I

also have developed bone spurs on the neck vertebrae. I see a

chiropractor about once a month and it seems to help some... I have a

lot of popping joints and it works some of them out. I've also found

the neck massage and traction helpful. It alleviates the pain for a

few hours and generally loosens things up a bit. I have an

appointment at a new pain management clinic next week, its closer to

home. Not sure what to expect there yet but ever hopeful. Tina

[Guest guest]

Hi le!

You've had quite a " ride " ! I hope that you are speaking of town, RI?

Carole M.

[Guest guest]

Welcome, la! I hope you enjoy this group and find us helpful.

Best,

New member

Hello all!

My name is le. I had my Harrington rod implanted in 1979 by

Dr. Hugo Keim in Columbia Presbyterian in NYC. I'm now 38 yo. My

spine is fused from my lower cervical to L4 (I think). I never

really knew there was a term for the bent over position that I'm in

by the end of the day. It's nice to know I'm not alone. I'm

battling a weight problem right now, which exacerbates the problem.

At one point many years ago, I was in a lot of pain and saw an

orthopedist. He recommended having revision surgery in either San

Francisco, Boston, or someplace near the Great Lakes. He was under

the impression that I had already tried physical therapy, but I

hadn't and when he heard that, he prescribed therapy. The therapy

worked wonders! I was feeling so much better for a very long time!

Since then, I've had two children, went through a divorce (and lost

35 lbs) and now I've found much happiness with a great guy and bought

a house in town. The problem with being happy, is I got a bit

lazy I guess, now I've regained that 35 lbs and I'm feeling it in my

back again. Well, that's my story...

Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment

Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any

advertised products.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

No, I didn't even know there was a town in RI! I'm in smithtown

on Long Island.

And just for the record, I am VERY happy I had my surgery! There was

no way the doctors doing these new techniques would know that this

flatback syndrome would happen. And I was told that the only thnigs

I couldn't do was serious contact sports (like tackle football, or

being flipped in karate), jumping on a trampoline, and riding a

motorcycle (and I have ridden and even drove a motorcycle!). My

curve was progressing so fast when I was young (3 degrees a month)

that, from the time they first suggested a brace to my next appt, I

no longer had a choice and HAD to have surgery. It was a wild

experience and almost put my parents in the poor house because they

didn't have great insurance. But all in all we are a sum of our

experiences, and they can all make us stronger. I'm determined to

get myself in better shape and keep myself healthy, at least I'm

alive and not severely deformed or dead like I might have been

without the surgery.

Do most people use lumbar rolls, etc. (like I do) to keep the lumbar

curve for as long as possible throughout the day? Or are the people

who are affected most bent over all the time? I'm just amazed that I

have actually found a group of people who have had this! I've never

met anyone who had it before; a few people I've met have said they

knew of someone who had the surgery, but never any direct contact.

I know I've come into this thread in the middle, but who is

Fergerson and where might I see some of her work (to decide for

myself)?

~ Dani

> Hi le!

>

> You've had quite a " ride " ! I hope that you are speaking of

town, RI?

>

> Carole M.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" I've found much happiness with a great guy and bought

a house in town "

Hi le, welcome to the group. When you mentioned town, I knew

you must be from Long Island. I am a Long Islander too. South shore.

I think your Dr Keim and my Dr Jacop Grahm might have practiced together

for a little while. The name Dr Keim is familiar to me. My surgery was in

NYC...Harlem, Hospital for Joint Disease in 1974. Where did you have your

first surgery?

Carol

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[Guest guest]

Hi,

I just joined the group too. I found this link that was very

helpful in knowing what to eat and what to avoid.

Steve Shapiro's Food Lists

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~sshapiro/ER4YT/CompositeScreenList.html

Sharon

[Guest guest]

yabadinapolice wrote:

>

>

> I just joined the group, and I am ready to do what it takes. Before

> I start on the appropriate diet, I just wanted to ask you all if it

> is a good idea to do some kind of fasting or system cleansing?

Welcome!!!!!!

In my opinion no, the diet does it all for you. For example I lost 10

pounds of edema the first week.

But it's a subject about which there are different opinions - so do what

feels right for you?

Namaste,

Irene

--

Irene de Villiers, B.Sc; AASCA; MCSSA; D.I.Hom.

P.O.Box 4703, Spokane, WA 99220-0703.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html

Veterinary Homeopath and Feline Information Counsellor.

[Guest guest]

>For

others it is best to do it all at once and get it over with.<

I admire the people who have the willpower to have a high carb avoid food in

their house and slowly wean away from it. Since I'm a borderline

obsessive-compulsive (and can't eat only one potato chip or piece of candy), I

cleaned out

my kitchen of all avoid foods, spices, etc. I was amazed at how much that

was. I went to the store and only bought beneficial or neutral foods which

means I only bought foods around the outside of the store (periphery shopping)

because everything else was processed and had avoids (I was shocked--we're all

poisoning ourselves). I felt lousey for about 3 days but then started feeling

great. I got severe " cravings " for about two weeks and had small protein

snacks available to keep me filled up.

In a month I felt wonderful and never looked back. I slowly reintroduced

avoids one at a time to see what their affect was and whether I could tolerate

them. I was amazed at how sick I got from potatoes, cauliflower, coffee, corn,

wheat, etc. I'd been eating these foods all of my life. In the early days,

soy was a neutral but I could never eat or drink it without getting sick-go

figure.

Some avoids I do use rarely are cream and cheese for cooking. I also

occasionally eat ham, bacon, ketchup, and mayonnaise with little adverse effect.

During holidays at type 'A' or 'B' people's houses, I minmize the damage by

eating avoids that affect me the least. I still end up fat, sick, and asleep

with

a hangover but it minimizes the recovery time. You have to experiment to find

out what you can eat and not eat.

One trap I fell into initially that you may want to avoid was that I tried to

find foods that substituted for the avoids I cut out. I ended up eating too

many neutrals and not enough beneficials. Now I eat a very simple diet of red

meat, eggs, and vegetables mostly with occasional fish and chicken.

Again, in the early days, the non-secretor/secretor staus wasn't that

emphasized. I found that eating some " neutral foods " like spelt made me as sick

as

avoids. I couldn't lose any weight. I would recommend that you find out

whether you're a non-secretor or a secretor. If you don't want to pay for the

test, just wait until you're detoxed and eat some non-secretor avoids and see

what

happens. Hope this helps. Good luck!!

Max

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the group. Do you mind if I ask for your first name?

The diet itself will do the cleansing. For many people it is easier to take

one avoid at a time and slowly worked into the diet, taking the neutral and

beneficial foods they haven't eaten before and finding out about them. For

others it is best to do it all at once and get it over with. I'm one of the

people who did it slow and didn't have any problems with the change over.

Others have gone though a shorter period, which was harder on them for a few

weeks but quicker to start seeing and feeling the results. That choice is

yours. The most effective attitude is to look at what you can eat and learn

not to even think of the foods you can't eat. Let us know if we can answer

any questions for you.

New member

>

>

>

> I just joined the group, and I am ready to do what it takes. Before

> I start on the appropriate diet, I just wanted to ask you all if it

> is a good idea to do some kind of fasting or system cleansing? If

> so, what is recommended. Also, what is the best way to

> start,.....just avoiding the " bad " foods totally at once, or try and

> cut one thing at a time (the hardest part for me would be giving up

> yogurt and all the dairy food). Is it good to start supplements

> right away, or if eating a balanced food, no need to supplement?

> Where can I find a complete list of foods to avoid (although I know

> most of them from my readings here and there, I am not sure what the

> best website is to bookmark for regular use...)

> It would be nice to hear from a veteran O on this diet....

>

> Thanks a lot,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome Sharon. It is good to hear from you. Let us know if you have any

questions. Remember, many of us on this list have been here quite a while.

The beautiful thing is we have new people coming in that can answer

questions some of us have wanted the answers to also.

That means we can all try to help you find answers to any questions you

might have.

Re: New member

>

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I just joined the group too. I found this link that was very

> helpful in knowing what to eat and what to avoid.

>

> Steve Shapiro's Food Lists

> http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~sshapiro/ER4YT/CompositeScreenList.html

>

> Sharon