Some thoughts

November 3, 2005

Sis,

I'm with you 100% . . .

> I think there are some people who have to live it in

> order to believe

> it. I personally always felt that there were too

> many people

> complaining of the same symptoms in order for it to

> be a fluke. If

> someone would look into what causes some people to

> have problems,

> perhaps the problems could be iradicated. Perhaps

> there are

> similarities in those who become ill, but no one is

> looking into

> that. We've all struggled with people questioning

> our credibility,

> and dismissing our symptoms, and I think the only

> way some people

> could become believers is if they themselves were

> touched by this.

> It's kind of interesting, though, to think that some

> actually feel a

> little threatened by us. I know that cigarettes

> cause a multitude of

> problems, and because of that, I have chosen not to

> smoke. Others

> know the risks and smoke anyway. I wonder how long

> it took tobacco

> companies to admit that their customers were getting

> sick from the

> cigarettes?

>

> Sis

>

> Eleni,

> >

> > No one can say that each and every person who is

> implanted will

> become ill

> > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not

> every person who

> took Vioxx

> > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and

> considered it a great

> > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market

> because of those

> that it

> > did affect. I don't see that implants will be

> removed from the

> market

> > because they are such big sellers for plastic

> surgeons but I would

> be happy

> > if doctors explained the real risks of illness to

> each and every

> patient.

> > We would all have full knowledge of what we could

> be doing to our

> bodies.

> > If I become ill because of something I knowingly

> did to myself, I

> can't

> > blame anyone else but myself.

> >

> > Kenda

> >

> > 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> >

> > > Hello,

> > > Thank you to all of you who took time to

> respond to my question.

> I thought

> > > I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're

> way down the

> line now, and

> > > as I received digest, my original post/respones

> aren't easily

> found unless I

> > > look into archives. Anyway...

> > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the

> same reason anyone

> would want

> > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and

> symtpoms described

> here. It's

> > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence

> in many cases.

> Sometimes,

> > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We look

> at the symptoms

> and make our

> > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard

> evidence that

> implants are the

> > > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at

> least help me form

> a more

> > > definitive conclusion.

> > > Group, there is no argument that you have

> experienced trauma,

> tragedy, and

> > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after

> implantation. My

> questions are

> > > whether you know that the implants actually

> caused your troubles.

> It's

> > > reasonable that you can conclude that they have.

> Yet, there are

> many similar

> > > prostheses that people have put in yearly, such

> as hip

> replacements, toothe

> > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint

> replacement,

> pacemakers, or any

> > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along

> those lines causing

> > > difficulties or diseases.

> > > There are a percentage of women who get these

> diseases, a rather

> small

> > > percentage. And there are those who experience

> virtually no

> problems, no

> > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady

> personally who has

> had them for

> > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known

> problems. I'm sorry

> that this

> > > does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

> > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for

> the many of you

> whose

> > > situation is validly expressed here. I'd do

> nothing to demean

> you. I wrote

> > > someone here offlist, who also kindly responded.

> Yet, what I read

> from her

> > > response was similar to " It's just a matter of

> time. " My friend,

> however, is

> > > among several I know who experience no grave

> health problems.

> > > Again, according to what I know, the studies

> show only that the

> percentage

> > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't

> prove that each and

> every woman

> > > with implants, whether saline or silicone, will

> get a life-

> threatening

> > > disease or health problem, why should we decide

> that every woman

> with

> > > implants will?

> > > I know my statements may cause you some raised

> emotions here.

> Please try to

> > > understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in

> your answers. I'm

> not

> > > presenting my argument to cause you any more

> grief than you're now

> > > experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you

> believe. I'd be the

> first to

> > > support any woman who contracted problems with

> respect for her,

> her

> > > feelings, her experience and trauma as result of

> implantation, IF

> i *knew

> > > without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the

> above was caused

> by breast

> > > implantation. I say this because many of us are

> genetically prone

> to some of

> > > the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have

> marital problems,

> > > arthrosis, or any other health issue.

> > > And to decided that you know that those of us

> with no serious

> health

> > > problems who have implants do not value our

> health, let me tell

>

=== message truncated ===

November 3, 2005

My sister had a jar on her desk at work, where she would throw spare

change into it. She called it her implant fund. Well, after seeing

what happened to me, she has no interest in saving for implants - I

told her to save up for a nice vacation instead. Between the cost of

the implants and the cost of the explants, I could have gone on an

extravagant vacation and probably still had money left over. Kind of

reminds me of those tee shirts people get on vacation " I went to such

and such a place, and all I got was this lousy tee-shirt " . I got

implants and all I got was this lousy illness. I think what

is doing is awesome, with the dance classes but yet she's also making

a statement about implants - she's taking lemons and making lemonade.

Sis

Eleni,

> >

> > No one can say that each and every person who is implanted will

> become ill

> > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not every person who

> took Vioxx

> > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and considered it a

great

> > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market because of

> those that it

> > did affect. I don't see that implants will be removed from the

> market

> > because they are such big sellers for plastic surgeons but I

would

> be happy

> > if doctors explained the real risks of illness to each and every

> patient.

> > We would all have full knowledge of what we could be doing to our

> bodies.

> > If I become ill because of something I knowingly did to myself, I

> can't

> > blame anyone else but myself.

> >

> > Kenda

> >

> > 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> >

> > > Hello,

> > > Thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my

> question. I thought

> > > I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're way down the

> line now, and

> > > as I received digest, my original post/respones aren't easily

> found unless I

> > > look into archives. Anyway...

> > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the same reason

> anyone would want

> > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and symtpoms described

> here. It's

> > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence in many cases.

> Sometimes,

> > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We look at the symptoms

> and make our

> > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard evidence that

> implants are the

> > > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at least help me

form

> a more

> > > definitive conclusion.

> > > Group, there is no argument that you have experienced trauma,

> tragedy, and

> > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after implantation. My

> questions are

> > > whether you know that the implants actually caused your

> troubles. It's

> > > reasonable that you can conclude that they have. Yet, there are

> many similar

> > > prostheses that people have put in yearly, such as hip

> replacements, toothe

> > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint replacement,

> pacemakers, or any

> > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along those lines

causing

> > > difficulties or diseases.

> > > There are a percentage of women who get these diseases, a

> rather small

> > > percentage. And there are those who experience virtually no

> problems, no

> > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady personally who has

> had them for

> > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known problems. I'm sorry

> that this

> > > does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

> > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for the many of you

> whose

> > > situation is validly expressed here. I'd do nothing to demean

> you. I wrote

> > > someone here offlist, who also kindly responded. Yet, what I

> read from her

> > > response was similar to " It's just a matter of time. " My

friend,

> however, is

> > > among several I know who experience no grave health problems.

> > > Again, according to what I know, the studies show only that

the

> percentage

> > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't prove that each and

> every woman

> > > with implants, whether saline or silicone, will get a life-

> threatening

> > > disease or health problem, why should we decide that every

woman

> with

> > > implants will?

> > > I know my statements may cause you some raised emotions here.

> Please try to

> > > understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in your answers. I'm

> not

> > > presenting my argument to cause you any more grief than you're

> now

> > > experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you believe. I'd be the

> first to

> > > support any woman who contracted problems with respect for her,

> her

> > > feelings, her experience and trauma as result of implantation,

> IF i *knew

> > > without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the above was caused

> by breast

> > > implantation. I say this because many of us are genetically

> prone to some of

> > > the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have marital

> problems,

> > > arthrosis, or any other health issue.

> > > And to decided that you know that those of us with no serious

> health

> > > problems who have implants do not value our health, let me tell

> you, you are

> > > completely wrong. I know of no woman who doesn't value her

> health, as do I.

> > > But for me to go around predicting that all women with implants

> *will*

> > > experience severe health problems is erroneous. If I can

provide

> actual

> > > scientific evidence, whatever that may be, that only a

> percentage of

> > > precious women will experience severe problems, then it's

> reasonable to say.

> > > If I can't provide evidence that all women will get sick, then

> it might be

> > > better to present statements along these lines, rather than

> deciding that I

> > > have this prediction correctly.

> > > My friend, with the implants for 20 years and who has no

> problems,

> > > including others that I know, proves that some women do not

> experience

> > > problems from breast implants. You are the percentage of women

> who are. This

> > > is tragic.

> > > Elenii

> >

> > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

given

> by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or

> licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

> treatment.

> >

> > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

> decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

> better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954,

> Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >

November 3, 2005

I know what you are saying but people have to responsible for their own

choices. If the risks are fully explained to us yet we choose to ignore

them, it's our own fault. That's true of everything in life.

Kenda

> The sad thing is (I am going thru this with my personal friends who

> want to get implanted after they saw what I just went thru) there

> are so many young girls out there that want them so bad and would

> take out as many credit cards they can to get implants even if they

> are warned of the health risks. There mentality is that it won't

> happen to me. I was the same way when I was in my 20's. I just

> didn't think and I thought I was invincible! I caught myself saying

> that one day to my mom, that if I would have known about the health

> risks that I would have never done it...she just gave me

> that " Look " ...she was right. I probably wouldn't have cared at the

> time because I was so vain and hard headed about the entire

> situation. It is so sad..I really think I was even still developing

> when I got mine in!

>

> J

>

> Eleni,

>>

>> No one can say that each and every person who is implanted will

> become ill

>> because it isn't necessarily true, just as not every person who

> took Vioxx

>> died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and considered it a great

>> anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market because of

> those that it

>> did affect. I don't see that implants will be removed from the

> market

>> because they are such big sellers for plastic surgeons but I would

> be happy

>> if doctors explained the real risks of illness to each and every

> patient.

>> We would all have full knowledge of what we could be doing to our

> bodies.

>> If I become ill because of something I knowingly did to myself, I

> can't

>> blame anyone else but myself.

>>

>> Kenda

>>

>> 11/3/05 9:32 AM

>>

>>> Hello,

>>> Thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my

> question. I thought

>>> I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're way down the

> line now, and

>>> as I received digest, my original post/respones aren't easily

> found unless I

>>> look into archives. Anyway...

>>> Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the same reason

> anyone would want

>>> proof about any sort of strong opinion and symtpoms described

> here. It's

>>> perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence in many cases.

> Sometimes,

>>> however, I know that's hard to provide. We look at the symptoms

> and make our

>>> best guess. But if I could have actual hard evidence that

> implants are the

>>> absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at least help me form

> a more

>>> definitive conclusion.

>>> Group, there is no argument that you have experienced trauma,

> tragedy, and

>>> difficulty on receiving, during, or after implantation. My

> questions are

>>> whether you know that the implants actually caused your

> troubles. It's

>>> reasonable that you can conclude that they have. Yet, there are

> many similar

>>> prostheses that people have put in yearly, such as hip

> replacements, toothe

>>> replacements, eye replacements, any joint replacement,

> pacemakers, or any

>>> such device. Yet, I don't read anything along those lines causing

>>> difficulties or diseases.

>>> There are a percentage of women who get these diseases, a

> rather small

>>> percentage. And there are those who experience virtually no

> problems, no

>>> disease from breast implants. I know a lady personally who has

> had them for

>>> 20 years. She has had no reported or known problems. I'm sorry

> that this

>>> does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

>>> I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for the many of you

> whose

>>> situation is validly expressed here. I'd do nothing to demean

> you. I wrote

>>> someone here offlist, who also kindly responded. Yet, what I

> read from her

>>> response was similar to " It's just a matter of time. " My friend,

> however, is

>>> among several I know who experience no grave health problems.

>>> Again, according to what I know, the studies show only that the

> percentage

>>> contracting a disease is small. If we can't prove that each and

> every woman

>>> with implants, whether saline or silicone, will get a life-

> threatening

>>> disease or health problem, why should we decide that every woman

> with

>>> implants will?

>>> I know my statements may cause you some raised emotions here.

> Please try to

>>> understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in your answers. I'm

> not

>>> presenting my argument to cause you any more grief than you're

> now

>>> experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you believe. I'd be the

> first to

>>> support any woman who contracted problems with respect for her,

> her

>>> feelings, her experience and trauma as result of implantation,

> IF i *knew

>>> without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the above was caused

> by breast

>>> implantation. I say this because many of us are genetically

> prone to some of

>>> the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have marital

> problems,

>>> arthrosis, or any other health issue.

>>> And to decided that you know that those of us with no serious

> health

>>> problems who have implants do not value our health, let me tell

> you, you are

>>> completely wrong. I know of no woman who doesn't value her

> health, as do I.

>>> But for me to go around predicting that all women with implants

> *will*

>>> experience severe health problems is erroneous. If I can provide

> actual

>>> scientific evidence, whatever that may be, that only a

> percentage of

>>> precious women will experience severe problems, then it's

> reasonable to say.

>>> If I can't provide evidence that all women will get sick, then

> it might be

>>> better to present statements along these lines, rather than

> deciding that I

>>> have this prediction correctly.

>>> My friend, with the implants for 20 years and who has no

> problems,

>>> including others that I know, proves that some women do not

> experience

>>> problems from breast implants. You are the percentage of women

> who are. This

>>> is tragic.

>>> Elenii

>>

>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given

> by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or

> licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

> treatment.

>>

>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

> decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

> better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954,

> Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>>

November 3, 2005

Sis,

You've got that right! . . . It's one way of handling

our anger! . . . much better than feeling sorry for

ourselves or lashing out at others!

You are going to do great! You've got the attitude it

takes!

Hugs,

Rogene

--- auntsisnj <auntsisnj@...> wrote:

> My sister had a jar on her desk at work, where she

> would throw spare

> change into it. She called it her implant fund.

> Well, after seeing

> what happened to me, she has no interest in saving

> for implants - I

> told her to save up for a nice vacation instead.

> Between the cost of

> the implants and the cost of the explants, I could

> have gone on an

> extravagant vacation and probably still had money

> left over. Kind of

> reminds me of those tee shirts people get on

> vacation " I went to such

> and such a place, and all I got was this lousy

> tee-shirt " . I got

> implants and all I got was this lousy illness. I

> think what

> is doing is awesome, with the dance classes but yet

> she's also making

> a statement about implants - she's taking lemons and

> making lemonade.

>

> Sis

>

> Eleni,

> > >

> > > No one can say that each and every person who is

> implanted will

> > become ill

> > > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not

> every person who

> > took Vioxx

> > > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and

> considered it a

> great

> > > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the

> market because of

> > those that it

> > > did affect. I don't see that implants will be

> removed from the

> > market

> > > because they are such big sellers for plastic

> surgeons but I

> would

> > be happy

> > > if doctors explained the real risks of illness

> to each and every

> > patient.

> > > We would all have full knowledge of what we

> could be doing to our

> > bodies.

> > > If I become ill because of something I knowingly

> did to myself, I

> > can't

> > > blame anyone else but myself.

> > >

> > > Kenda

> > >

> > > 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> > >

> > > > Hello,

> > > > Thank you to all of you who took time to

> respond to my

> > question. I thought

> > > > I'd briefly answer some of the respones.

> They're way down the

> > line now, and

> > > > as I received digest, my original

> post/respones aren't easily

> > found unless I

> > > > look into archives. Anyway...

> > > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the

> same reason

> > anyone would want

> > > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and

> symtpoms described

> > here. It's

> > > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual

> evidence in many cases.

> > Sometimes,

> > > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We

> look at the symptoms

> > and make our

> > > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard

> evidence that

> > implants are the

> > > > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at

> least help me

> form

> > a more

> > > > definitive conclusion.

> > > > Group, there is no argument that you have

> experienced trauma,

> > tragedy, and

> > > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after

> implantation. My

> > questions are

> > > > whether you know that the implants actually

> caused your

> > troubles. It's

> > > > reasonable that you can conclude that they

> have. Yet, there are

> > many similar

> > > > prostheses that people have put in yearly,

> such as hip

> > replacements, toothe

> > > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint

> replacement,

> > pacemakers, or any

> > > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along

> those lines

> causing

> > > > difficulties or diseases.

> > > > There are a percentage of women who get these

> diseases, a

> > rather small

> > > > percentage. And there are those who experience

> virtually no

> > problems, no

> > > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady

> personally who has

> > had them for

> > > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known

> problems. I'm sorry

> > that this

> > > > does not corroborate the reason for this

> forum.

> > > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for

> the many of you

> > whose

> > > > situation is validly expressed here. I'd do

> nothing to demean

> > you. I wrote

> > > > someone here offlist, who also kindly

> responded. Yet, what I

> > read from her

> > > > response was similar to " It's just a matter of

> time. " My

> friend,

> > however, is

> > > > among several I know who experience no grave

> health problems.

> > > > Again, according to what I know, the studies

> show only that

> the

> > percentage

> > > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't

> prove that each and

> > every woman

> > > > with implants, whether saline or silicone,

> will get a life-

> > threatening

> > > > disease or health problem, why should we

> decide

=== message truncated ===

November 3, 2005

Rogene - thanks so much! The first couple of months after I got my

implants, I was so sad and life felt so hopeless, so I'm thankful

that I didn't stay in that place and have moved on to whatever stage

I'm in now. Actually this is the closest to my old self I've been in

months, now I just want to feel like myself again on a physical

level. Definitely taking action and scheduling the explant surgery

has done wonders for me. I don't look forward to post surgical pain

and all that goes with it, but if it takes some pain to get rid of

alot of pain, then I'm up for it.

Sis

Eleni,

> > > >

> > > > No one can say that each and every person who is

> > implanted will

> > > become ill

> > > > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not

> > every person who

> > > took Vioxx

> > > > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and

> > considered it a

> > great

> > > > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the

> > market because of

> > > those that it

> > > > did affect. I don't see that implants will be

> > removed from the

> > > market

> > > > because they are such big sellers for plastic

> > surgeons but I

> > would

> > > be happy

> > > > if doctors explained the real risks of illness

> > to each and every

> > > patient.

> > > > We would all have full knowledge of what we

> > could be doing to our

> > > bodies.

> > > > If I become ill because of something I knowingly

> > did to myself, I

> > > can't

> > > > blame anyone else but myself.

> > > >

> > > > Kenda

> > > >

> > > > 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> > > >

> > > > > Hello,

> > > > > Thank you to all of you who took time to

> > respond to my

> > > question. I thought

> > > > > I'd briefly answer some of the respones.

> > They're way down the

> > > line now, and

> > > > > as I received digest, my original

> > post/respones aren't easily

> > > found unless I

> > > > > look into archives. Anyway...

> > > > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the

> > same reason

> > > anyone would want

> > > > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and

> > symtpoms described

> > > here. It's

> > > > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual

> > evidence in many cases.

> > > Sometimes,

> > > > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We

> > look at the symptoms

> > > and make our

> > > > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard

> > evidence that

> > > implants are the

> > > > > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at

> > least help me

> > form

> > > a more

> > > > > definitive conclusion.

> > > > > Group, there is no argument that you have

> > experienced trauma,

> > > tragedy, and

> > > > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after

> > implantation. My

> > > questions are

> > > > > whether you know that the implants actually

> > caused your

> > > troubles. It's

> > > > > reasonable that you can conclude that they

> > have. Yet, there are

> > > many similar

> > > > > prostheses that people have put in yearly,

> > such as hip

> > > replacements, toothe

> > > > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint

> > replacement,

> > > pacemakers, or any

> > > > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along

> > those lines

> > causing

> > > > > difficulties or diseases.

> > > > > There are a percentage of women who get these

> > diseases, a

> > > rather small

> > > > > percentage. And there are those who experience

> > virtually no

> > > problems, no

> > > > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady

> > personally who has

> > > had them for

> > > > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known

> > problems. I'm sorry

> > > that this

> > > > > does not corroborate the reason for this

> > forum.

> > > > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for

> > the many of you

> > > whose

> > > > > situation is validly expressed here. I'd do

> > nothing to demean

> > > you. I wrote

> > > > > someone here offlist, who also kindly

> > responded. Yet, what I

> > > read from her

> > > > > response was similar to " It's just a matter of

> > time. " My

> > friend,

> > > however, is

> > > > > among several I know who experience no grave

> > health problems.

> > > > > Again, according to what I know, the studies

> > show only that

> > the

> > > percentage

> > > > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't

> > prove that each and

> > > every woman

> > > > > with implants, whether saline or silicone,

> > will get a life-

> > > threatening

> > > > > disease or health problem, why should we

> > decide

> === message truncated ===

>

November 3, 2005

I am feeling sso much better just having found this site.Not that I wish any sort of suffering on anyone but knowing that I am not alone has done wonders for me.Also knowing that there has to be adefinate connection between the implants and illness as the complaints of the women here are the same or very close.Everyone here is so supportive and helpful.It is so refereshing to see women standing together and being honest with one another.auntsisnj <auntsisnj@...> wrote:

Rogene - thanks so much! The first couple of months after I got my implants, I was so sad and life felt so hopeless, so I'm thankful that I didn't stay in that place and have moved on to whatever stage I'm in now. Actually this is the closest to my old self I've been in months, now I just want to feel like myself again on a physical level. Definitely taking action and scheduling the explant surgery has done wonders for me. I don't look forward to post surgical pain and all that goes with it, but if it takes some pain to get rid of alot of pain, then I'm up for it. Sis Eleni,> > > > > > > > No one can say that each and every person who is> > implanted will > > > become ill> > > > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not> > every person who > > > took Vioxx> > > > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and> > considered it a > > great> > > > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the> > market because of > > > those that it> > > > did affect. I don't see that implants will be> > removed from the > > > market>

> > > because they are such big sellers for plastic> > surgeons but I > > would > > > be happy> > > > if doctors explained the real risks of illness> > to each and every > > > patient.> > > > We would all have full knowledge of what we> > could be doing to our > > > bodies.> > > > If I become ill because of something I knowingly> > did to myself, I > > > can't> > > > blame anyone else but myself.> > > > > > > > Kenda> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11/3/05 9:32 AM> > > > > > > > > Hello,> > > > > Thank you to all of you who took time to> > respond to my > > > question. I thought> > > > > I'd

briefly answer some of the respones.> > They're way down the > > > line now, and> > > > > as I received digest, my original> > post/respones aren't easily > > > found unless I> > > > > look into archives. Anyway...> > > > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the> > same reason > > > anyone would want> > > > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and> > symtpoms described > > > here. It's> > > > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual> > evidence in many cases. > > > Sometimes,> > > > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We> > look at the symptoms > > > and make our> > > > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard> > evidence that > > > implants are the> > >

> > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at> > least help me > > form > > > a more> > > > > definitive conclusion.> > > > > Group, there is no argument that you have> > experienced trauma, > > > tragedy, and> > > > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after> > implantation. My > > > questions are> > > > > whether you know that the implants actually> > caused your > > > troubles. It's> > > > > reasonable that you can conclude that they> > have. Yet, there are > > > many similar> > > > > prostheses that people have put in yearly,> > such as hip > > > replacements, toothe> > > > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint> > replacement, > > > pacemakers, or

any> > > > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along> > those lines > > causing> > > > > difficulties or diseases.> > > > > There are a percentage of women who get these> > diseases, a > > > rather small> > > > > percentage. And there are those who experience> > virtually no > > > problems, no> > > > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady> > personally who has > > > had them for> > > > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known> > problems. I'm sorry > > > that this> > > > > does not corroborate the reason for this> > forum.> > > > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for> > the many of you > > > whose> > > > > situation is validly

expressed here. I'd do> > nothing to demean > > > you. I wrote> > > > > someone here offlist, who also kindly> > responded. Yet, what I > > > read from her> > > > > response was similar to "It's just a matter of> > time." My > > friend, > > > however, is> > > > > among several I know who experience no grave> > health problems.> > > > > Again, according to what I know, the studies> > show only that > > the > > > percentage> > > > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't> > prove that each and > > > every woman> > > > > with implants, whether saline or silicone,> > will get a life-> > > threatening> > > > > disease or health problem, why should we> > decide >

=== message truncated ===>

Find your next car at Canada Autos

November 3, 2005

IMHO, the reason suicide is almost four times higher

among implant women is because of the way we are

treated by the medical profession! . . .

Knowing we are not along does mean a lot . . i.e.

we're NOT crazy! . . . If we're depressed, we have a

right to be depressed!

Hugs,

Rogene

November 3, 2005

Exactly.Imagine all of those women who when they finally find the courage to seek medical help discreetly only to be turned away and told how safe the implants are and that they do not cause illness.You would start to feel as though it was a mental problem instead of a physical thing.I know how depressed and alone I have felt.Rogene S <saxony01@...> wrote:

IMHO, the reason suicide is almost four times higheramong implant women is because of the way we aretreated by the medical profession! . . . Knowing we are not along does mean a lot . . i.e.we're NOT crazy! . . . If we're depressed, we have aright to be depressed!Hugs,Rogene

Find your next car at Canada Autos

November 4, 2005

Yes, Kenda, but manufaturers have a duty to market a product that is reasonably

safe. I

don't think BI are reasonably safe. And are the warnings sufficient for

informed consent? I

bet they are not.

Eleni,

> >>

> >> No one can say that each and every person who is implanted will

> > become ill

> >> because it isn't necessarily true, just as not every person who

> > took Vioxx

> >> died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and considered it a great

> >> anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market because of

> > those that it

> >> did affect. I don't see that implants will be removed from the

> > market

> >> because they are such big sellers for plastic surgeons but I would

> > be happy

> >> if doctors explained the real risks of illness to each and every

> > patient.

> >> We would all have full knowledge of what we could be doing to our

> > bodies.

> >> If I become ill because of something I knowingly did to myself, I

> > can't

> >> blame anyone else but myself.

> >>

> >> Kenda

> >>

> >> 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> >>

> >>> Hello,

> >>> Thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my

> > question. I thought

> >>> I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're way down the

> > line now, and

> >>> as I received digest, my original post/respones aren't easily

> > found unless I

> >>> look into archives. Anyway...

> >>> Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the same reason

> > anyone would want

> >>> proof about any sort of strong opinion and symtpoms described

> > here. It's

> >>> perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence in many cases.

> > Sometimes,

> >>> however, I know that's hard to provide. We look at the symptoms

> > and make our

> >>> best guess. But if I could have actual hard evidence that

> > implants are the

> >>> absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at least help me form

> > a more

> >>> definitive conclusion.

> >>> Group, there is no argument that you have experienced trauma,

> > tragedy, and

> >>> difficulty on receiving, during, or after implantation. My

> > questions are

> >>> whether you know that the implants actually caused your

> > troubles. It's

> >>> reasonable that you can conclude that they have. Yet, there are

> > many similar

> >>> prostheses that people have put in yearly, such as hip

> > replacements, toothe

> >>> replacements, eye replacements, any joint replacement,

> > pacemakers, or any

> >>> such device. Yet, I don't read anything along those lines causing

> >>> difficulties or diseases.

> >>> There are a percentage of women who get these diseases, a

> > rather small

> >>> percentage. And there are those who experience virtually no

> > problems, no

> >>> disease from breast implants. I know a lady personally who has

> > had them for

> >>> 20 years. She has had no reported or known problems. I'm sorry

> > that this

> >>> does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

> >>> I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for the many of you

> > whose

> >>> situation is validly expressed here. I'd do nothing to demean

> > you. I wrote

> >>> someone here offlist, who also kindly responded. Yet, what I

> > read from her

> >>> response was similar to " It's just a matter of time. " My friend,

> > however, is

> >>> among several I know who experience no grave health problems.

> >>> Again, according to what I know, the studies show only that the

> > percentage

> >>> contracting a disease is small. If we can't prove that each and

> > every woman

> >>> with implants, whether saline or silicone, will get a life-

> > threatening

> >>> disease or health problem, why should we decide that every woman

> > with

> >>> implants will?

> >>> I know my statements may cause you some raised emotions here.

> > Please try to

> >>> understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in your answers. I'm

> > not

> >>> presenting my argument to cause you any more grief than you're

> > now

> >>> experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you believe. I'd be the

> > first to

> >>> support any woman who contracted problems with respect for her,

> > her

> >>> feelings, her experience and trauma as result of implantation,

> > IF i *knew

> >>> without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the above was caused

> > by breast

> >>> implantation. I say this because many of us are genetically

> > prone to some of

> >>> the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have marital

> > problems,

> >>> arthrosis, or any other health issue.

> >>> And to decided that you know that those of us with no serious

> > health

> >>> problems who have implants do not value our health, let me tell

> > you, you are

> >>> completely wrong. I know of no woman who doesn't value her

> > health, as do I.

> >>> But for me to go around predicting that all women with implants

> > *will*

> >>> experience severe health problems is erroneous. If I can provide

> > actual

> >>> scientific evidence, whatever that may be, that only a

> > percentage of

> >>> precious women will experience severe problems, then it's

> > reasonable to say.

> >>> If I can't provide evidence that all women will get sick, then

> > it might be

> >>> better to present statements along these lines, rather than

> > deciding that I

> >>> have this prediction correctly.

> >>> My friend, with the implants for 20 years and who has no

> > problems,

> >>> including others that I know, proves that some women do not

> > experience

> >>> problems from breast implants. You are the percentage of women

> > who are. This

> >>> is tragic.

> >>> Elenii

> >>

> >> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given

> > by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or

> > licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

> > treatment.

> >>

> >> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> > mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

> > decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

> > better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954,

> > Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >>

November 4, 2005

amen, Rogene!

>

> IMHO, the reason suicide is almost four times higher

> among implant women is because of the way we are

> treated by the medical profession! . . .

>

> Knowing we are not along does mean a lot . . i.e.

> we're NOT crazy! . . . If we're depressed, we have a

> right to be depressed!

>

> Hugs,

>

> Rogene

>

November 4, 2005

I agree that the manufacturers have a duty to market a product that is

reasonably safe. I would love to know what the true number of sickened

women is. Of course there is no real way to know because a lot of women

don't associate their health problems with their implants.

Kenda

> Yes, Kenda, but manufaturers have a duty to market a product that is

> reasonably safe. I

> don't think BI are reasonably safe. And are the warnings sufficient for

> informed consent? I

> bet they are not.

>

> Eleni,

>>>>

>>>> No one can say that each and every person who is implanted will

>>> become ill

>>>> because it isn't necessarily true, just as not every person who

>>> took Vioxx

>>>> died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and considered it a great

>>>> anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market because of

>>> those that it

>>>> did affect. I don't see that implants will be removed from the

>>> market

>>>> because they are such big sellers for plastic surgeons but I would

>>> be happy

>>>> if doctors explained the real risks of illness to each and every

>>> patient.

>>>> We would all have full knowledge of what we could be doing to our

>>> bodies.

>>>> If I become ill because of something I knowingly did to myself, I

>>> can't

>>>> blame anyone else but myself.

>>>>

>>>> Kenda

>>>>

>>>> 11/3/05 9:32 AM

>>>>

>>>>> Hello,

>>>>> Thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my

>>> question. I thought

>>>>> I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're way down the

>>> line now, and

>>>>> as I received digest, my original post/respones aren't easily

>>> found unless I

>>>>> look into archives. Anyway...

>>>>> Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the same reason

>>> anyone would want

>>>>> proof about any sort of strong opinion and symtpoms described

>>> here. It's

>>>>> perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence in many cases.

>>> Sometimes,

>>>>> however, I know that's hard to provide. We look at the symptoms

>>> and make our

>>>>> best guess. But if I could have actual hard evidence that

>>> implants are the

>>>>> absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at least help me form

>>> a more

>>>>> definitive conclusion.

>>>>> Group, there is no argument that you have experienced trauma,

>>> tragedy, and

>>>>> difficulty on receiving, during, or after implantation. My

>>> questions are

>>>>> whether you know that the implants actually caused your

>>> troubles. It's

>>>>> reasonable that you can conclude that they have. Yet, there are

>>> many similar

>>>>> prostheses that people have put in yearly, such as hip

>>> replacements, toothe

>>>>> replacements, eye replacements, any joint replacement,

>>> pacemakers, or any

>>>>> such device. Yet, I don't read anything along those lines causing

>>>>> difficulties or diseases.

>>>>> There are a percentage of women who get these diseases, a

>>> rather small

>>>>> percentage. And there are those who experience virtually no

>>> problems, no

>>>>> disease from breast implants. I know a lady personally who has

>>> had them for

>>>>> 20 years. She has had no reported or known problems. I'm sorry

>>> that this

>>>>> does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

>>>>> I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for the many of you

>>> whose

>>>>> situation is validly expressed here. I'd do nothing to demean

>>> you. I wrote

>>>>> someone here offlist, who also kindly responded. Yet, what I

>>> read from her

>>>>> response was similar to " It's just a matter of time. " My friend,

>>> however, is

>>>>> among several I know who experience no grave health problems.

>>>>> Again, according to what I know, the studies show only that the

>>> percentage

>>>>> contracting a disease is small. If we can't prove that each and

>>> every woman

>>>>> with implants, whether saline or silicone, will get a life-

>>> threatening

>>>>> disease or health problem, why should we decide that every woman

>>> with

>>>>> implants will?

>>>>> I know my statements may cause you some raised emotions here.

>>> Please try to

>>>>> understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in your answers. I'm

>>> not

>>>>> presenting my argument to cause you any more grief than you're

>>> now

>>>>> experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you believe. I'd be the

>>> first to

>>>>> support any woman who contracted problems with respect for her,

>>> her

>>>>> feelings, her experience and trauma as result of implantation,

>>> IF i *knew

>>>>> without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the above was caused

>>> by breast

>>>>> implantation. I say this because many of us are genetically

>>> prone to some of

>>>>> the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have marital

>>> problems,

>>>>> arthrosis, or any other health issue.

>>>>> And to decided that you know that those of us with no serious

>>> health

>>>>> problems who have implants do not value our health, let me tell

>>> you, you are

>>>>> completely wrong. I know of no woman who doesn't value her

>>> health, as do I.

>>>>> But for me to go around predicting that all women with implants

>>> *will*

>>>>> experience severe health problems is erroneous. If I can provide

>>> actual

>>>>> scientific evidence, whatever that may be, that only a

>>> percentage of

>>>>> precious women will experience severe problems, then it's

>>> reasonable to say.

>>>>> If I can't provide evidence that all women will get sick, then

>>> it might be

>>>>> better to present statements along these lines, rather than

>>> deciding that I

>>>>> have this prediction correctly.

>>>>> My friend, with the implants for 20 years and who has no

>>> problems,

>>>>> including others that I know, proves that some women do not

>>> experience

>>>>> problems from breast implants. You are the percentage of women

>>> who are. This

>>>>> is tragic.

>>>>> Elenii

>>>>

>>>> Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given

>>> by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or

>>> licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

>>> treatment.

>>>>

>>>> " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

>>> mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

>>> decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

>>> better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954,

>>> Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

>>>>

November 4, 2005

It would be really interesting if we made those t-shirts and wore

them around. I bet that would arouse alot of curiosity! Everybody

reads t-shirts! However, I wouldn't have the guts to do it!

Hugskathy

'

Eleni,

> > >

> > > No one can say that each and every person who is implanted

will

> > become ill

> > > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not every person

who

> > took Vioxx

> > > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and considered it a

> great

> > > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market because of

> > those that it

> > > did affect. I don't see that implants will be removed from

the

> > market

> > > because they are such big sellers for plastic surgeons but I

> would

> > be happy

> > > if doctors explained the real risks of illness to each and

every

> > patient.

> > > We would all have full knowledge of what we could be doing to

our

> > bodies.

> > > If I become ill because of something I knowingly did to

myself, I

> > can't

> > > blame anyone else but myself.

> > >

> > > Kenda

> > >

> > > 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> > >

> > > > Hello,

> > > > Thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my

> > question. I thought

> > > > I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're way down

the

> > line now, and

> > > > as I received digest, my original post/respones aren't

easily

> > found unless I

> > > > look into archives. Anyway...

> > > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the same reason

> > anyone would want

> > > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and symtpoms

described

> > here. It's

> > > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence in many

cases.

> > Sometimes,

> > > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We look at the

symptoms

> > and make our

> > > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard evidence that

> > implants are the

> > > > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at least help me

> form

> > a more

> > > > definitive conclusion.

> > > > Group, there is no argument that you have experienced

trauma,

> > tragedy, and

> > > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after implantation. My

> > questions are

> > > > whether you know that the implants actually caused your

> > troubles. It's

> > > > reasonable that you can conclude that they have. Yet, there

are

> > many similar

> > > > prostheses that people have put in yearly, such as hip

> > replacements, toothe

> > > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint replacement,

> > pacemakers, or any

> > > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along those lines

> causing

> > > > difficulties or diseases.

> > > > There are a percentage of women who get these diseases, a

> > rather small

> > > > percentage. And there are those who experience virtually no

> > problems, no

> > > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady personally who

has

> > had them for

> > > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known problems. I'm

sorry

> > that this

> > > > does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

> > > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for the many of

you

> > whose

> > > > situation is validly expressed here. I'd do nothing to

demean

> > you. I wrote

> > > > someone here offlist, who also kindly responded. Yet, what I

> > read from her

> > > > response was similar to " It's just a matter of time. " My

> friend,

> > however, is

> > > > among several I know who experience no grave health problems.

> > > > Again, according to what I know, the studies show only that

> the

> > percentage

> > > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't prove that each

and

> > every woman

> > > > with implants, whether saline or silicone, will get a life-

> > threatening

> > > > disease or health problem, why should we decide that every

> woman

> > with

> > > > implants will?

> > > > I know my statements may cause you some raised emotions

here.

> > Please try to

> > > > understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in your answers.

I'm

> > not

> > > > presenting my argument to cause you any more grief than

you're

> > now

> > > > experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you believe. I'd be

the

> > first to

> > > > support any woman who contracted problems with respect for

her,

> > her

> > > > feelings, her experience and trauma as result of

implantation,

> > IF i *knew

> > > > without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the above was

caused

> > by breast

> > > > implantation. I say this because many of us are genetically

> > prone to some of

> > > > the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have marital

> > problems,

> > > > arthrosis, or any other health issue.

> > > > And to decided that you know that those of us with no

serious

> > health

> > > > problems who have implants do not value our health, let me

tell

> > you, you are

> > > > completely wrong. I know of no woman who doesn't value her

> > health, as do I.

> > > > But for me to go around predicting that all women with

implants

> > *will*

> > > > experience severe health problems is erroneous. If I can

> provide

> > actual

> > > > scientific evidence, whatever that may be, that only a

> > percentage of

> > > > precious women will experience severe problems, then it's

> > reasonable to say.

> > > > If I can't provide evidence that all women will get sick,

then

> > it might be

> > > > better to present statements along these lines, rather than

> > deciding that I

> > > > have this prediction correctly.

> > > > My friend, with the implants for 20 years and who has no

> > problems,

> > > > including others that I know, proves that some women do not

> > experience

> > > > problems from breast implants. You are the percentage of

women

> > who are. This

> > > > is tragic.

> > > > Elenii

> > >

> > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

> given

> > by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or

> > licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

> > treatment.

> > >

> > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> > mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

> > decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

> > better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner

(1954,

> > Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > >

November 4, 2005

Ignore Elenii's letter. I don't know what her motive is, but what she said

doesn't make

much sense. It certainly is ilogical.

One of these days, Lea, the lid will come off on all this. I am afraid it will

take a whole new

wave of sick women (and men, too, since implants are not confined to women), for

the

medical community to finally be willing to speak out.

But even now, more and more doctors are understanding the dangers that implants

cause.

My internist, rheumatologist and neurologist believe that implants are not safe.

My internist because she has been my doctor for years, and watched me go

downhill, and

saw the path report from my explant. Both the rheumatologist and neurologist

told me

they have treated way too many sick women to not know that implants cause

illness.

It will take time for more and more of these doctors to start speaking out.

There is still a

lot of pressure on them not to.

It may take a true 'smoking gun' from an insider whistelblower....

It will happen.

> >>

> >> IMHO, the reason suicide is almost four times higher

> >> among implant women is because of the way we are

> >> treated by the medical profession! . . .

> >>

> >> Knowing we are not along does mean a lot . . i.e.

> >> we're NOT crazy! . . . If we're depressed, we have a

> >> right to be depressed!

> >>

> >> Hugs,

> >>

> >> Rogene

> >>

> >

> > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice given by

> > licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician or licensed

> > health care professional before commencing any medical treatment.

> >

> > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you.

> > Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live

> > a happy life and how to work for a better world. " - Linus ing,

> > two-time Nobel Prize Winner (1954, Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> >

November 4, 2005

I spent many years trying to figure out if I was sick because I was

depressed or if I was depressed because I was sick. I think that

having doctors tell you OVER AND OVER again that you just need some

antidepressants will turn any normal mind into a depressed one. I know

now that I was only suffering from symptoms of depression because not

one person in my life showed any amount of concern about my illness.

They all told me it was in my head and that I needed to " get over it " .

I remember one time when a highly respected co-worker told me that she

felt that I had some " emotional issues that prevented me from being a

reliable employee " . Like it couldn't possibly have been a REAL

physical problem that I was dealing with. On one hand I would love to

go back to all of those people from my past and enlighten them, on the

other hand I am so much better off not having anything to do with any

of them. There will always be people who refuse to belive us, or even

to hear our side. We just have to keep fighting and not let them bring

us down.

November 4, 2005

My situation was a little different. I was too blind to even consider my

implants may be a

problem, and never even mentioned to my docs I had implants!

My internist was very worried - she even called me at home to tell me to get my

tuckus to

a rheumatologist and neurologist. This was before I even thought of

implants,though. I

was just getting so very sick, and fast! When the lawyer /MD I was doing some

research

for asked me if I had BI, my jaw dropped! So then I told my internist, and she

immediately

ordered MRIS which showed the implants were ruptured. She has no problem

believing

the implants made me very very sick. My rheumatologist said she was very

unhappy with

the silicone implants coming back on the market. She also told me she did not

believe

saline implants were safe, either. The neurologist (who got his MD at

Northwestern and

did his residency at Mayo Clinic) said that DOW funded the Mayo research that is

now

touted to show implants are 'safe'. He too said he KNOWS that implants make

many

women ill, and can cause autoimmune reaction. But then, what still astonishes

me is that

this is still debated. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that

these could cause

immune reactions!

But I also have had the experience of a doctor going to great lengths to tell me

that the

'there is no evidence' to say implants are unsafe. Of course, he acknowledged

there is no

evidence to show they are safe, either. When I asked him questions about the

statistics,

he had no answers. I don't think it occurred to him that I might know something

about

math or statistics!! lol

>

> I spent many years trying to figure out if I was sick because I was

> depressed or if I was depressed because I was sick. I think that

> having doctors tell you OVER AND OVER again that you just need some

> antidepressants will turn any normal mind into a depressed one. I know

> now that I was only suffering from symptoms of depression because not

> one person in my life showed any amount of concern about my illness.

> They all told me it was in my head and that I needed to " get over it " .

> I remember one time when a highly respected co-worker told me that she

> felt that I had some " emotional issues that prevented me from being a

> reliable employee " . Like it couldn't possibly have been a REAL

> physical problem that I was dealing with. On one hand I would love to

> go back to all of those people from my past and enlighten them, on the

> other hand I am so much better off not having anything to do with any

> of them. There will always be people who refuse to belive us, or even

> to hear our side. We just have to keep fighting and not let them bring

> us down.

>

November 4, 2005

I got to the point where when one dr. tried to put me on an

antidepressant to keep my muscles from spasms (Yeah right), I said to

him, " I'm NOT depressed, but I'm starting to get depressed listening to

all of you blow off the possibility that it could all be coming from my

impklants. " Here's another good one: When I told one dr. about Dr.

Kolb and how she is the only certified homeopathic PS in the country,

he said, " with good reason. " (As if to put down homeopathic medicine)

Honestly, I can tell a dr.s attitude towards me as soon as they enter

the room, after they have read my history and/or my med profile. Seems

they all have preconceived ideas about implanted women.

Just my 2 cents!

Hugs,

Cheryl

November 4, 2005

I could have written that letter. Thanks for sharing.

hugs,kathy

>

> I spent many years trying to figure out if I was sick because I

was

> depressed or if I was depressed because I was sick. I think that

> having doctors tell you OVER AND OVER again that you just need

some

> antidepressants will turn any normal mind into a depressed one. I

know

> now that I was only suffering from symptoms of depression because

not

> one person in my life showed any amount of concern about my

illness.

> They all told me it was in my head and that I needed to " get over

it " .

> I remember one time when a highly respected co-worker told me that

she

> felt that I had some " emotional issues that prevented me from

being a

> reliable employee " . Like it couldn't possibly have been a REAL

> physical problem that I was dealing with. On one hand I would love

to

> go back to all of those people from my past and enlighten them, on

the

> other hand I am so much better off not having anything to do with

any

> of them. There will always be people who refuse to belive us, or

even

> to hear our side. We just have to keep fighting and not let them

bring

> us down.

>

November 4, 2005

Alot of medical professionals are very closed minded, and they only

believe what the medical books tell them, or what the FDA tells them.

I really appreciate the more open minded doctors who know that our

bodies are all different (and they are really hard to find, aren't

they?), and we're not all textbook cases. Today I visited my

gynecologist's office, and he fully believes I'm sick from the

implants. He had a patient who got sick from silicone and he told me

that he doesn't trust implants. After I left his office, I went to see

my counselor, who also fully believes that my implants are making me

sick. Even my MD, while she never once said she believed my implants

were making me sick, she never dismissed my feelings, and she never

said she DIDN'T think they were making me sick. Of course the

Infectious Disease doctor told me not to remove them, that he didn't

think they were making me sick, but I totally ignored what he said. I

just wanted to get as much bloodwork as I could, so I'd have something

to compare things to later - and so I could put my then-skeptical

husband's mind at ease. Actually, I'm also going to keep my own hair

and fingernail samples just in case one day there's a reason to

evaluate them.

Sis

>

> I got to the point where when one dr. tried to put me on an

> antidepressant to keep my muscles from spasms (Yeah right), I said to

> him, " I'm NOT depressed, but I'm starting to get depressed listening

to

> all of you blow off the possibility that it could all be coming from

my

> impklants. " Here's another good one: When I told one dr. about Dr.

> Kolb and how she is the only certified homeopathic PS in the country,

> he said, " with good reason. " (As if to put down homeopathic medicine)

> Honestly, I can tell a dr.s attitude towards me as soon as they enter

> the room, after they have read my history and/or my med profile.

Seems

> they all have preconceived ideas about implanted women.

> Just my 2 cents!

> Hugs,

> Cheryl

>

November 4, 2005

Honestly, I think I'm going to have a t-shirt like that made up, and

wear it over to my sister's house to see how long it takes her to

notice. You can get anything put on a t-shirt these days.

Sis

Eleni,

> > > >

> > > > No one can say that each and every person who is implanted

> will

> > > become ill

> > > > because it isn't necessarily true, just as not every person

> who

> > > took Vioxx

> > > > died. I took Vioxx prior to knee surgery and considered it a

> > great

> > > > anti-inflammatory, yet Vioxx is now off the market because of

> > > those that it

> > > > did affect. I don't see that implants will be removed from

> the

> > > market

> > > > because they are such big sellers for plastic surgeons but I

> > would

> > > be happy

> > > > if doctors explained the real risks of illness to each and

> every

> > > patient.

> > > > We would all have full knowledge of what we could be doing to

> our

> > > bodies.

> > > > If I become ill because of something I knowingly did to

> myself, I

> > > can't

> > > > blame anyone else but myself.

> > > >

> > > > Kenda

> > > >

> > > > 11/3/05 9:32 AM

> > > >

> > > > > Hello,

> > > > > Thank you to all of you who took time to respond to my

> > > question. I thought

> > > > > I'd briefly answer some of the respones. They're way down

> the

> > > line now, and

> > > > > as I received digest, my original post/respones aren't

> easily

> > > found unless I

> > > > > look into archives. Anyway...

> > > > > Rogene, thank you. I would like proof for the same reason

> > > anyone would want

> > > > > proof about any sort of strong opinion and symtpoms

> described

> > > here. It's

> > > > > perfectly reasonable to ask for actual evidence in many

> cases.

> > > Sometimes,

> > > > > however, I know that's hard to provide. We look at the

> symptoms

> > > and make our

> > > > > best guess. But if I could have actual hard evidence that

> > > implants are the

> > > > > absolute cause of sudden disease, it would at least help me

> > form

> > > a more

> > > > > definitive conclusion.

> > > > > Group, there is no argument that you have experienced

> trauma,

> > > tragedy, and

> > > > > difficulty on receiving, during, or after implantation. My

> > > questions are

> > > > > whether you know that the implants actually caused your

> > > troubles. It's

> > > > > reasonable that you can conclude that they have. Yet, there

> are

> > > many similar

> > > > > prostheses that people have put in yearly, such as hip

> > > replacements, toothe

> > > > > replacements, eye replacements, any joint replacement,

> > > pacemakers, or any

> > > > > such device. Yet, I don't read anything along those lines

> > causing

> > > > > difficulties or diseases.

> > > > > There are a percentage of women who get these diseases, a

> > > rather small

> > > > > percentage. And there are those who experience virtually no

> > > problems, no

> > > > > disease from breast implants. I know a lady personally who

> has

> > > had them for

> > > > > 20 years. She has had no reported or known problems. I'm

> sorry

> > > that this

> > > > > does not corroborate the reason for this forum.

> > > > > I tried to convey my sympathy and respect for the many of

> you

> > > whose

> > > > > situation is validly expressed here. I'd do nothing to

> demean

> > > you. I wrote

> > > > > someone here offlist, who also kindly responded. Yet, what

I

> > > read from her

> > > > > response was similar to " It's just a matter of time. " My

> > friend,

> > > however, is

> > > > > among several I know who experience no grave health

problems.

> > > > > Again, according to what I know, the studies show only

that

> > the

> > > percentage

> > > > > contracting a disease is small. If we can't prove that each

> and

> > > every woman

> > > > > with implants, whether saline or silicone, will get a life-

> > > threatening

> > > > > disease or health problem, why should we decide that every

> > woman

> > > with

> > > > > implants will?

> > > > > I know my statements may cause you some raised emotions

> here.

> > > Please try to

> > > > > understand what I'm saying. Please be calm in your answers.

> I'm

> > > not

> > > > > presenting my argument to cause you any more grief than

> you're

> > > now

> > > > > experiencing; I'm not invalidating what you believe. I'd be

> the

> > > first to

> > > > > support any woman who contracted problems with respect for

> her,

> > > her

> > > > > feelings, her experience and trauma as result of

> implantation,

> > > IF i *knew

> > > > > without a shadow of reasonable doubt* that the above was

> caused

> > > by breast

> > > > > implantation. I say this because many of us are genetically

> > > prone to some of

> > > > > the difficulties incurred. Many of us would have marital

> > > problems,

> > > > > arthrosis, or any other health issue.

> > > > > And to decided that you know that those of us with no

> serious

> > > health

> > > > > problems who have implants do not value our health, let me

> tell

> > > you, you are

> > > > > completely wrong. I know of no woman who doesn't value her

> > > health, as do I.

> > > > > But for me to go around predicting that all women with

> implants

> > > *will*

> > > > > experience severe health problems is erroneous. If I can

> > provide

> > > actual

> > > > > scientific evidence, whatever that may be, that only a

> > > percentage of

> > > > > precious women will experience severe problems, then it's

> > > reasonable to say.

> > > > > If I can't provide evidence that all women will get sick,

> then

> > > it might be

> > > > > better to present statements along these lines, rather than

> > > deciding that I

> > > > > have this prediction correctly.

> > > > > My friend, with the implants for 20 years and who has no

> > > problems,

> > > > > including others that I know, proves that some women do not

> > > experience

> > > > > problems from breast implants. You are the percentage of

> women

> > > who are. This

> > > > > is tragic.

> > > > > Elenii

> > > >

> > > > Opinions expressed are NOT meant to take the place of advice

> > given

> > > by licensed health care professionals. Consult your physician

or

> > > licensed health care professional before commencing any medical

> > > treatment.

> > > >

> > > > " Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians

> > > mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own

> > > decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a

> > > better world. " - Linus ing, two-time Nobel Prize Winner

> (1954,

> > > Chemistry; 1963, Peace)

> > > >

November 4, 2005

Good idea Sis!

Patty

--- In , " auntsisnj " <auntsisnj@l...>

wrote:

>

> Alot of medical professionals are very closed minded, and they

only

> believe what the medical books tell them, or what the FDA tells

them.

> I really appreciate the more open minded doctors who know that our

> bodies are all different (and they are really hard to find, aren't

> they?), and we're not all textbook cases. Today I visited my

> gynecologist's office, and he fully believes I'm sick from the

> implants. He had a patient who got sick from silicone and he told

me

> that he doesn't trust implants. After I left his office, I went

to see

> my counselor, who also fully believes that my implants are making

me

> sick. Even my MD, while she never once said she believed my

implants

> were making me sick, she never dismissed my feelings, and she

never

> said she DIDN'T think they were making me sick. Of course the

> Infectious Disease doctor told me not to remove them, that he

didn't

> think they were making me sick, but I totally ignored what he

said. I

> just wanted to get as much bloodwork as I could, so I'd have

something

> to compare things to later - and so I could put my then-skeptical

> husband's mind at ease. Actually, I'm also going to keep my own

hair

> and fingernail samples just in case one day there's a reason to

> evaluate them.

>

> Sis

November 4, 2005

Sis, that is a REALLY good idea. You plan on keeping your implants, too, don't

you?

I have a feeling many doctors know implants are dangerous, but few are willing

to publicly

state so.

> >

> > I got to the point where when one dr. tried to put me on an

> > antidepressant to keep my muscles from spasms (Yeah right), I said to

> > him, " I'm NOT depressed, but I'm starting to get depressed listening

> to

> > all of you blow off the possibility that it could all be coming from

> my

> > impklants. " Here's another good one: When I told one dr. about Dr.

> > Kolb and how she is the only certified homeopathic PS in the country,

> > he said, " with good reason. " (As if to put down homeopathic medicine)

> > Honestly, I can tell a dr.s attitude towards me as soon as they enter

> > the room, after they have read my history and/or my med profile.

> Seems

> > they all have preconceived ideas about implanted women.

> > Just my 2 cents!

> > Hugs,

> > Cheryl

> >

>

November 5, 2005

Elenii

I fully agree with Rogene.... I had implants put in at 24. Within 3 years I had to have two additional operations due to complications. I breast fed my son with the implants in before I knew they were making me ill.... I had had several issues due to this and there is nothing more horrifying then waking up every day knowing that you hurt your own child.... Nothing is worse. I will always hate myself for doing this to him and I will never forgive myself for the horrible decision I made at 24 - NEVER. It is a very hard pill to swallow for sure and now I probably will never be able to have another child due to my health issues (implants were removed in 2003). Being a mommy was all I ever wanted to be in my life.... have several children and watch them grow. now I only have the one who is 4 and still breaks out in the rashes that were proven to be from the implants to this day - he has one as we speak. he has suffered his whole life with these and I have myself to blame. Every day I wake up happy to be alive as worry that some of the silicone chunk still in my body may get into an artery and cause an aneurysm as so many of our silicone sisters have died from. I don't want to leave my child motherless nor do I want him to go thru life as an only child but all that is out of my hands now.

I will never -ever believe there can be a safe implant and I will always hate the doctors that do this to women and young girls every day knowing it may cause them problems.

thanks for letting me voice my opinion.

November 5, 2005

Molly, I definitely plan on keeping my implants. I have to make sure

to remind Dr. Feng to give them to me after surgery, because I know

when I wake up afterwards I'm going to be groggy. I think you're

right about doctors, sometimes there are ramifications for going

against the grain and perhaps many just don't want to suffer the

consequences.

Sis

--- In , " Molly Bloom " <mollyb54@b...>

wrote:

>

> Sis, that is a REALLY good idea. You plan on keeping your

implants, too, don't you?

> I have a feeling many doctors know implants are dangerous, but few

are willing to publicly

> state so.

>

> --- In , " auntsisnj " <auntsisnj@l...>

wrote:

> >

> > Alot of medical professionals are very closed minded, and they

only

> > believe what the medical books tell them, or what the FDA tells

them.

> > I really appreciate the more open minded doctors who know that

our

> > bodies are all different (and they are really hard to find,

aren't

> > they?), and we're not all textbook cases. Today I visited my

> > gynecologist's office, and he fully believes I'm sick from the

> > implants. He had a patient who got sick from silicone and he

told me

> > that he doesn't trust implants. After I left his office, I went

to see

> > my counselor, who also fully believes that my implants are making

me

> > sick. Even my MD, while she never once said she believed my

implants

> > were making me sick, she never dismissed my feelings, and she

never

> > said she DIDN'T think they were making me sick. Of course the

> > Infectious Disease doctor told me not to remove them, that he

didn't

> > think they were making me sick, but I totally ignored what he

said. I

> > just wanted to get as much bloodwork as I could, so I'd have

something

> > to compare things to later - and so I could put my then-skeptical

> > husband's mind at ease. Actually, I'm also going to keep my own

hair

> > and fingernail samples just in case one day there's a reason to

> > evaluate them.

> >

> > Sis

> >

> > --- In , " Cheryl " <sunbum256@a...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > I got to the point where when one dr. tried to put me on an

> > > antidepressant to keep my muscles from spasms (Yeah right), I

said to

> > > him, " I'm NOT depressed, but I'm starting to get depressed

listening

> > to

> > > all of you blow off the possibility that it could all be coming

from

> > my

> > > impklants. " Here's another good one: When I told one dr.

about Dr.

> > > Kolb and how she is the only certified homeopathic PS in the

country,

> > > he said, " with good reason. " (As if to put down homeopathic

medicine)

> > > Honestly, I can tell a dr.s attitude towards me as soon as they

enter

> > > the room, after they have read my history and/or my med

profile.

> > Seems

> > > they all have preconceived ideas about implanted women.

> > > Just my 2 cents!

> > > Hugs,

> > > Cheryl

> > >

> >

>

February 1, 2006

Hey Becky,

I know how you feel. The one thing that has prepared me to say goodbye

is the movie, " Super Size Me, " it has helped me to see how the junk

food is just so bad for us. I even made a copy of it so i can watch

the bonus footage called the Smoking Fry...let me tell you, You'll

never miss McD's or any Fast Food places. Also, check out Fast Food

Nation by Schlosser. It is a rude awakening to our addiction to

fast food, and junk food. It's really got me focused on eating better,

maybe it might help you to say goodbye better.

~Kelli

>

> I have told my daughter how very helpful this group is and am

> very happy to see her finally with us in this forum.

> One thing that I wanted to say to any of you that are still in the

> " waiting " period. I thought that I was very prepared and found out

> that I wasn't. I studied the surgery, it's effects on my life and what

> I needed to do before and after, what I didn't study was what the

> first week would be like. I know that it is very different for each

> one of us and that we all have different stories to tell. If I could

> give only one piece of advice it would be to not go into this thinking

> that it is the easy way to deal with weight loss. I feel that in my

> case, it is the only successful way but not the easiest. I am doing a

> lot of soul searching and one thing I know for sure is that I am very

> thankful that I was able to do this, especially with , but I

> wish that I would have been a bit more prepared. I too, have been

> depressed and have found it hard to say good bye to an old friend,

> being the food that I love.I would suggest that you all read any of

> the books on dealing with weight loss surgery to help in understanding

> what your going through. I am reading " Finding the Thin Person Hiding

> Inside You! " by Barbara . So many questions are being

> answered. I wish I would have read it before the surgery, not after.

> But then, I always have done things a bit backwards. I have been told

> that in 2 months I won't even remember this week because I will be to

> busy keeping up with the NEW ME.

> Becky

>

February 1, 2006

Hi Becky

Thanks for the suggestions for preparing for this life-changing

experience. Many people on this message board have mentioned

grieving for their friend food. I thought I would never be able to

eat many foods I had loved, but discovered that after the first 6-8

weeks there wasn't much I couldn't eat again! Unfortunately, some

of the easiest things to eat were chocolate, candy and junk food

items! We all know we have to use our band as a tool to better

eating and by the time you eat the foods that make a good diet you

are full and don't crave the " bad " things! What a blessing. Head

hunger is our only enemy but even that is tempered with our

wonderful little band! These are just my thoughts but I hope you

will be feeling better soon and begin to appreciate what the band

can do for you! A loss on the scales, a size smaller in clothing,

or no back pain or sore knees is a great incentive.

Best wishes

Penny

Down 4 lbs. since my fill on Friday!

>

> I have told my daughter how very helpful this group is and

am

> very happy to see her finally with us in this forum.

> One thing that I wanted to say to any of you that are still in the

> " waiting " period. I thought that I was very prepared and found out

> that I wasn't. I studied the surgery, it's effects on my life and

what

> I needed to do before and after, what I didn't study was what the

> first week would be like. I know that it is very different for each

> one of us and that we all have different stories to tell. If I

could

> give only one piece of advice it would be to not go into this

thinking

> that it is the easy way to deal with weight loss. I feel that in my

> case, it is the only successful way but not the easiest. I am

doing a

> lot of soul searching and one thing I know for sure is that I am

very

> thankful that I was able to do this, especially with , but I

> wish that I would have been a bit more prepared. I too, have been

> depressed and have found it hard to say good bye to an old friend,

> being the food that I love.I would suggest that you all read any of

> the books on dealing with weight loss surgery to help in

understanding

> what your going through. I am reading " Finding the Thin Person

Hiding

> Inside You! " by Barbara . So many questions are being

> answered. I wish I would have read it before the surgery, not

after.

> But then, I always have done things a bit backwards. I have been

told

> that in 2 months I won't even remember this week because I will be

to

> busy keeping up with the NEW ME.

> Becky

>

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