Newbie Questions

November 13, 2001

Tana,

I'll do my best to help you below.

> Hello,

> I just started giving my 8 yr old daughter (Jacquie) enzymes a few

days ago. I started with Kirkman's Complete because I thought it

would be easier since the one product covers all food groups. I may

switch to Houston's later when she is up to full dose because

Houston's is more economical. I want to wait until she is taking the

full dose before I switch though because I don't want to ask the

school and daycare to divide up those capsuls.

-I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My son takes both the

Houston enzymes. The nurse gives him two of each for lunch, one of

each for snacks. All the food groups are covered. The nurse has

done just fine with this plan.

My questions right now are about dosing. Do I give her the same

amount of enzyme for a snack as I do for a meal? I asked the rep at

Kirkman's and she said I could try giving her less for a snack but if

that wasn't enough I should give her the whole dose. I asked her how

I would know if I was giving her too much or too little and she said

mostly I would be able to tell by the way her bm's looked. Jacquie

is toilet trained and likes her privacy in the bathroom. There is

just know way she is going to let me in there to inspect her poops.

-I hadn't heard this about Kirkman's enzymes. What exactly were you

instructed to look for? Too loose? Color? I'm not sure how this

would relate to breaking down proteins. It is the amount of food

that should be considered for dosing, although my son's stools did

darken after enzymes, but that is not the determining factor for

dosing. When first starting enzymes, it is not uncommon to have

diarrhea. Do you think that is what the phone lady meant? If so,

then you might cut back on the dose just to start with. Surely she

didn't mean you are to check stools every single time to determine if

the enzymes are working. Just looking at stools would not be an

indicator of peptides being broken down anyway (in my

understanding). The stools could be better or worse, but that might

not indicate the enzymes are preventing peptides.

Does anyone have any suggesti

> ons? Do most of you find you can use less with a snack or do you

always need to give the full dose?

-In my opinion, you should be able to give a reduced dose with a

snack. If it is a smaller amount of gluten and/or casein, you could

reduce the dose accordingly. For a larger amount of gluten/casein,

you would increase the dose. I would check to see if there is a

dosing sheet with your order.

And also, in the evening she never really sits down and eats a whole

meal. She will only eat a little bit of her dinner at dinner time so

I save it and about an hour later she will eat a little bit more,

then later a little bit more..... So I have been giving her a little

bit of the enzymes everytime she starts to eat something. Is that

ok?

-You have about 90 minutes before you would need to give another

dose. I always go less than that, but for most kids, 90 minutes

should be ok. Food moves through the stomach usually in about 90

minutes, so you have to give another dose for the new food entering

the stomach.

And one more thing, I want to make sure that I am understanding the

recent posts about Kirkman's products vs. Houston's products, are the

Houston's enzymes the only ones that can be used with casein/gluten

foods? Right now Jacquie is still gfcf but I would sure love it if

she didn't have to be and I know she would love it too.

-There has been some back and forth on Kirkman's stand on the purpose

of their enzymes. Currently, they are saying if the parent wishes to

use the enzymes with gluten/casein foods, they may, assuming there is

no other restrictive medical condition. Houston's has always said if

the parent wishes to use the enzymes with gluten/casein foods, they

may, assuming there is no other restrictive medical condition.

-My son has been off the diet using the Houston enzymes for over six

months. His story is in the Files section in the yellow box at this

site.

Thanks for any advise you can share.

>

> Tks,

> Tana

-Anytime,

November 13, 2001

I will see if I can offer anything new (and welcome to the group!).

The school nurse keeps one bottle of Peptizyde and one bottle of Zyme

Prime with DeFelice on them. My boys come to the office 30 minutes

before their lunch times to get one of each capsule (they are in

different grades, so go at different times). This was the nurse's

idea and it has worked well. It sounds like your school is

cooperating, yeah!

Each boy takes 1 capsule of each product for each meal to cover all

food groups. Because I use two different products, it is easier and

more economical for me to give one appropriate capsule depending on

the snack. So if a snack has any casein or gluten, I give 1

Peptizyde, if anything else I give one Zyme. But if it is a peice of

fresh fruit, I don't give any because fresh fruit has enzymes of its

own (not destroyed by cooking). I can also plan a snack accordingly

and give something with no dairy or with dairy. I would imagine that

a snack should take less enzymes that a full meal. One exception I

can think of would be a snack with dairy. Because we are very

sensitive to casein, I would probably have to give a full dose just

to make sure all the casein got zapped...I mean, broken down. .

However, you will just need to experiment a bit to see what works

best.

I am not sure checking stools will help at first because loose stools

are very common and wouldn't really indicate whether all the peptides

are being broken down. However, you can always check and see if it

makes any difference. My boys are old enough to not want their stools

checked. This was important when my now-8-year-old was being treated

for Clostridia. Another mom gave me an idea which worked quite well.

Take the lid off of the toilet and unhook the chain which connects

the handle to the plunger inside the toilet. Now, just say that the

toilet isn't working right and she can just go and then you will fix

it later. This way she doesn't accidentally flush as she probably

will automatically. You can do your " checking " and then flush or put

the chain back on when you need to.

You can gage if it seems like " enough " enzymes by her reactions, if

she has any. We always got a migraine 2-3 hours of casein ingestion,

so that was easy enough to tell, although a bit painful, lol. Look

for upset behavior, wetting, red ears, etc. whatever is her

particular " reaction " to things. Monitoring her behavior, moods and

physical reactions will tell you best whether she is getting enough.

Also, you may find that she does not as much enzymes with some foods,

but needs more with other foods.

She may have the " grazing " habit in the evening. was right

about the enzymes being in the gut about 90 minutes. What you are

doing by giving a little enzymes with her little bits of food will

work too. That's a good system. Another idea would be what I do for

myself. Put the enzymes in a cool drink and have her sip or drink it

as she eats. This will also be putting a small supply of enzymes in

fresh as she eats. Enzymes in a cool drink will last a good 4 hours

(find for school lunch boxes).

I know that you can definitely use the Houston enzymes for

gluten/casein food whenever you like and however you like (we have

been doing this for 6 months). You will be the best judge to find out

what works best for your daughter and your situation.

.

November 13, 2001

Hi ,

Thanks so much for your help. Please see my reply below yours.

Tana,

I'll do my best to help you below.

> Hello,

> I just started giving my 8 yr old daughter (Jacquie) enzymes a few

days ago. I started with Kirkman's Complete because I thought it

would be easier since the one product covers all food groups. I may

switch to Houston's later when she is up to full dose because

Houston's is more economical. I want to wait until she is taking the

full dose before I switch though because I don't want to ask the

school and daycare to divide up those capsuls.

-I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My son takes both the

Houston enzymes. The nurse gives him two of each for lunch, one of

each for snacks. All the food groups are covered. The nurse has

done just fine with this plan.

Kirkman's dose is 2 caps with each meal and I thought that was equivelent to 1

cap each of Houston's products. Because I am starting her out at 1/2 the

recommended dose, I am giving her 1 cap with each meal which I believe would be

equivelent to 1/2 of each of Houston's enzymes. Once she is up to full dose, I

could switch to Houston's for the meals and give her 1 cap of each. However, if

I only need to give her 1/2 the dose for snacks then I would have to break up

the

capsuls.