Re: conflicting loading test results -- another consult with Flechas

[Guest guest]

I just talked with Flechas. It was short this time, mainly because I was tired and had not prepared a list of questions. Also, his office has been dealing with a whole lot of flu today, so I figured he might be a bit tired, too.

They were unable to retest the sample I sent to Abraham because the sample had not been saved. However, both Flechas and Abraham retested the sample I sent to Flechas and they both got the same results -- about 80% saturation.

Then I asked about people who get >100% on the Loading Test:

Zoe: About how many people have a result of >100% on the Iodine Loading Test.

Flechas: About one per week. It is due to problems of organification. Abraham is writing an article on this; it will be available in about two or 3 weeks. Niacin is needed to organify iodine. Person has a niacin deficiency. To fix the problem, take 1000 mg/ day of non-flushing niacin for about a year. (This niacin protocol can also help problems of low libido and high triglycerides.)

Zoe: Some of the people on our group are wondering why so few people have reached 90% saturation, even after 3-4 months on 50 mg Iodoral.

Flechas: You need a full nutritional program. Also, obese people will need more. And high fat diets (many people have quit their low carbohydrate diets) require more iodine since iodine is used to protect fats.

I've also been rereading a couple of the Abraham articles, and noticed that the goitrogens -- e.g., perchlorate, fluoride, and bromide -- block the NIS receptor and interfere with iodine organification. It may be that it takes longer now to accumulate iodine because our goitrogen levels are higher.

Zoe

[Guest guest]

For the record. I am not obese, I have a full exercise and nutritional program

including the vitamins Flechas recommended. It is primarily a low fat diet

with 30 to 40 percent fruits and vegetables, salads, etc. I don't eat red

meat, drink alcohol, smoke, ingest caffeine or artificial sweeteners or take

any other drugs other than levoxyl.

--- Zoe & <ZOEA@...> wrote:

> I just talked with Flechas. It was short this time, mainly because I was

> tired and had not prepared a list of questions. Also, his office has been

> dealing with a whole lot of flu today, so I figured he might be a bit tired,

> too.

>

> They were unable to retest the sample I sent to Abraham because the sample

> had not been saved. However, both Flechas and Abraham retested the sample I

> sent to Flechas and they both got the same results -- about 80% saturation.

>

> Then I asked about people who get >100% on the Loading Test:

>

> Zoe: About how many people have a result of >100% on the Iodine Loading

> Test.

>

> Flechas: About one per week. It is due to problems of organification.

> Abraham is writing an article on this; it will be available in about two or 3

> weeks. Niacin is needed to organify iodine. Person has a niacin deficiency.

> To fix the problem, take 1000 mg/ day of non-flushing niacin for about a

> year. (This niacin protocol can also help problems of low libido and high

> triglycerides.)

>

> Zoe: Some of the people on our group are wondering why so few people have

> reached 90% saturation, even after 3-4 months on 50 mg Iodoral.

>

> Flechas: You need a full nutritional program. Also, obese people will need

> more. And high fat diets (many people have quit their low carbohydrate

> diets) require more iodine since iodine is used to protect fats.

>

>

> I've also been rereading a couple of the Abraham articles, and noticed that

> the goitrogens -- e.g., perchlorate, fluoride, and bromide -- block the NIS

> receptor and interfere with iodine organification. It may be that it takes

> longer now to accumulate iodine because our goitrogen levels are higher.

>

> Zoe

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I am with you . I am 5'8" and weight 152 lbs. I exercise 3-4 days a week and am on a Vitamin regimen under Dr. Brownstein's protocol. I also eat lean low fat foods - veggies, fruits, whole grains (no gluten) and good oils. I don't drink, smoke but do ingest my coffee each morning. I don't do artificial sweeteners either. I take Armour and BHRT. Nothing else. I do not have amalgams anymore so even that is not an issue. I dose with 50 mgs and was at 66% after 4 1/2 mos.

Anyone else? I would love to speak with Flechas - as a group of us and challenge what he is saying.

Re: Re: conflicting loading test results -- another consult with Flechas

For the record. I am not obese, I have a full exercise and nutritional program including the vitamins Flechas recommended. It is primarily a low fat diet with 30 to 40 percent fruits and vegetables, salads, etc. I don't eat red meat, drink alcohol, smoke, ingest caffeine or artificial sweeteners or take any other drugs other than levoxyl.> Flechas: You need a full nutritional program. Also, obese people will need more. And high fat diets (many people have quit their low carbohydrate diets) require more iodine since iodine is used to protect fats.__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Great, !!! I agree that there is some other variable. I, too, am not obese and have a full nutritional program that exceeds the Abraham-Flechas recommendations -- except I have not taken 1000 mg/day of niacin, which they are about to recommend....

I have changed how I take the Iodoral. I used to take it on an empty stomach. I now take it with food, like most other minerals. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I also am now careful to take selenium and Vitamin C at different times.

Zoe

----- Original Message -----

From:

For the record. I am not obese, I have a full exercise and nutritional programincluding the vitamins Flechas recommended. It is primarily a low fat dietwith 30 to 40 percent fruits and vegetables, salads, etc. I don't eat redmeat, drink alcohol, smoke, ingest caffeine or artificial sweeteners or takeany other drugs other than levoxyl.

[Guest guest]

Me too....

I am 5'5 " weigh 132 lbs. I eat very little probably 500 to 1000 a

day. But what I do eat is very nutrious... high protein, good fats, a

little friut (I tend to have candida problems) and always fresh

vegatables AND a whole lot of vitamins/minerals. I drink about 6 oz

of coffee in the morning and I do indulge with a glass of wine or two

(or three <g>) per week. I excercise all the time. I've maintained

this routine for about a year. It's interesting to me how little food

I can servive on. I have a hard time digesting food. I am looking

into doing a liver cleanse soon hoping that might help.

Since taking iodine (started in May), through blood testing results, I

have been able to drop my armour from 3 grains to 1.5. But, I now

have a nodule in thyroid. I cut way back on the iodine (1 drop a day

from 50 mg) because I was getting huge cyst-like pimples (one or two

at a time) on my neck, chest and face. Then my thyroid was swelling

up making it hard to swallow. Recently had an ultra sound done on

the thyroid and the nodule was discovered.... I do not know if the

nodule was there before I started the iodine.

I still have some mercury in my mouth and lots of crowns that I wonder

about. I am currently investigating a couple of mercury free dentist

and hope to have the remaining mercury out of my mouth soon.

By the way, I grew up in Michigan (Troy). Lived there until I was 20.

When I look back on my childhood I remember symptoms of

hypothyroidism but nobody recognized them at the time. I was probably

boarderline hypo throughout my childhood.

Suzanne

>

> Great, !!! I agree that there is some other variable. I, too,

am not obese and have a full nutritional program that exceeds the

Abraham-Flechas recommendations -- except I have not taken 1000 mg/day

of niacin, which they are about to recommend....

>

> I have changed how I take the Iodoral. I used to take it on an

empty stomach. I now take it with food, like most other minerals. I

don't know if that makes a difference or not. I also am now careful

to take selenium and Vitamin C at different times.

>

> Zoe

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

>

>

> For the record. I am not obese, I have a full exercise and

nutritional program

> including the vitamins Flechas recommended. It is primarily a low

fat diet

> with 30 to 40 percent fruits and vegetables, salads, etc. I don't

eat red

> meat, drink alcohol, smoke, ingest caffeine or artificial

sweeteners or take

> any other drugs other than levoxyl.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Great, !!! I agree that there is some other variable.

> I, too, am not obese and have a full nutritional program

> that exceeds the Abraham-Flechas recommendations -- except

> I have not taken 1000 mg/day of niacin, which they are

> about to recommend....

good luck with the 1000 mg niacin. That's a very high amount,

can be problematic to the liver, and fosters nitric oxide

which in turn results in peroxynitrite and oxidative stress.

Very high niacin is contraindicated as far as I can see to the

TCM deficient constitution, Pfeiffer undermethylated,

who tends toward low hormones, low energy, fibro, etc.

A B50 complex works well for this type.

Carol

willis_protocols

my article archive in Files, blog, Links, not a discussion group.

[Guest guest]

> I am 5'5 " weigh 132 lbs. I eat very little probably 500

> to 1000 a

> day. But what I do eat is very nutrious... high protein,

> good fats, a

> little friut (I tend to have candida problems) and always

> fresh > vegatables AND a whole lot of vitamins/minerals.

> I drink about 6 oz

> of coffee in the morning and I do indulge with a glass

> of wine or two

> (or three <g>) per week. I excercise all the time.

> I've maintained

> this routine for about a year. It's interesting

> to me how little food

> I can servive on.

The low calories and high exercising sound like a recipe for

Adrenal Burnout. You really don't want to go down that road!!!

With very low calories, the body will tend to slow down

its metabolism as a defense against catabolism/wasting away.

The alcohol cannot be helping anything.

> Since taking iodine (started in May), through blood testing

results, I

> have been able to drop my armour from 3 grains to 1.5. But, I now

> have a nodule in thyroid. I cut way back on the iodine (1 drop a

day

> from 50 mg) because I was getting huge cyst-like pimples (one or

two

> at a time) on my neck, chest and face. Then my thyroid was

> swelling

> up making it hard to swallow. Recently had an ultra sound done on

> the thyroid and the nodule was discovered.... I do not know

> if the

> nodule was there before I started the iodine.

> Suzanne

The acne and thyroid enlargement sound like hypothyroid/goiter,

despite what you say about tests.

And thyroid med was lowered substantially....

Nodules need to be checked out.

Carol

[Guest guest]

It sounds to me like you might have an eating disorder

- eating very little and exercising all the time?

Maybe not, but these are warning signs for sure.

With so little calorie intake your body is going to

bring its metabolism to a slow down and then when and

if you do gain weight you won't be able to get it back

off easily. You could also develop electrolyte

imbalances and many other problems.

Also, doing this isn't good for your thyroid function,

your sex hormone function, or your good cholesterol

(which your body needs to make Progesterone, which in

turn your adrenals use to make Cortisol, which in turn

the Thyroid hormones need in order to get into their

receptor cells).

And it's DEFINITLY not good for your adrenals. They

are or will be having to pump out adrenalin to keep

you going whenever the right amount and types of

calories (that's what calories are, is an actual

energy unit) should actuall be what is keeping you

going instead. Going to burn out the adrenals that

way.

Imo you are on the road to problems with this routine.

>

> I am 5'5 " weigh 132 lbs. I eat very little

> probably 500

> to 1000 a

> day. But what I do eat is very nutrious... high

> protein,

> good fats, a

> little friut (I tend to have candida problems) and

> always

> fresh > vegatables AND a whole lot of

> vitamins/minerals.

> I drink about 6 oz

> of coffee in the morning and I do indulge with a

> glass

> of wine or two

> (or three <g>) per week. I excercise all the time.

>

> I've maintained

> this routine for about a year. It's interesting

> to me how little food

> I can servive on.

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[Guest guest]

I agree, but I have found that eating disorders are thyroid/adrenal.

Gracia

It sounds to me like you might have an eating disorder- eating very little and exercising all the time?Maybe not, but these are warning signs for sure.With so little calorie intake your body is going tobring its metabolism to a slow down and then when andif you do gain weight you won't be able to get it backoff easily. You could also develop electrolyteimbalances and many other problems. Also, doing this isn't good for your thyroid function,your sex hormone function, or your good cholesterol(which your body needs to make Progesterone, which inturn your adrenals use to make Cortisol, which in turnthe Thyroid hormones need in order to get into theirreceptor cells). And it's DEFINITLY not good for your adrenals. Theyare or will be having to pump out adrenalin to keepyou going whenever the right amount and types ofcalories (that's what calories are, is an actualenergy unit) should actuall be what is keeping yougoing instead. Going to burn out the adrenals thatway.Imo you are on the road to problems with this routine.> > I am 5'5" weigh 132 lbs. I eat very little> probably 500> to 1000 a> day. But what I do eat is very nutrious... high> protein,> good fats, a> little friut (I tend to have candida problems) and> always> fresh > vegatables AND a whole lot of> vitamins/minerals. > I drink about 6 oz> of coffee in the morning and I do indulge with a> glass> of wine or two> (or three <g>) per week. I excercise all the time.> > I've maintained> this routine for about a year. It's interesting> to me how little food> I can servive on. __________________________________________________________Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the New .com (http://www./preview)

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[Guest guest]

Im concerned that you are seriously depleting your mineral stores. And your B-12 stores.

Coffee does that, wine does that and exercise (or the recovery from it) depelets mineral stores. You won't be aware of it for a long time and when it does hit you, it will take a long while to rebuild.

I would recommend bone broth and kefir and bananas (green tipped) and liver at least once a week, just for starters. And don't drink RO water or distilled water.

Mineral stores are not to be messed around with and you can *survive* a long time before noticing serious depletion. Cover your bases now with dense mineral foods .

Low calories are not really a concern as much as low density nutrients.

Not minding my own business ;-)

Jane

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

> You won't be aware of it for a long time and when it does hit you,

it will take a long while to rebuild.

>

> Mineral stores are not to be messed around with and you can

*survive* a long time before noticing serious depletion.

Can you say more about depletion of mineral stores? What do you

mean, " When it does hit you " ? How would a person become aware of

depleted mineral stores?

Thanks much,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

You are right. I depleted my mineral stores through bad diet and intense

aerobic exercise and weight lifting. I looked amazing for a couple years then

I started to fall apart with odd health issues then the hashimoto's diagnosis.

I have been remineralizing for the last 18 months or so.

--- Jane Rowland <classicalwriter@...> wrote:

> Im concerned that you are seriously depleting your mineral stores. And your

> B-12 stores.

>

> Coffee does that, wine does that and exercise (or the recovery from it)

> depelets mineral stores. You won't be aware of it for a long time and when it

> does hit you, it will take a long while to rebuild.

>

> I would recommend bone broth and kefir and bananas (green tipped) and liver

> at least once a week, just for starters. And don't drink RO water or

> distilled water.

>

> Mineral stores are not to be messed around with and you can *survive* a long

> time before noticing serious depletion. Cover your bases now with dense

> mineral foods .

>

> Low calories are not really a concern as much as low density nutrients.

>

> Not minding my own business ;-)

> Jane

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[Guest guest]

Can you say more about depletion of mineral stores? What do you mean, "When it does hit you"? How would a person become aware of depleted mineral stores?

All things that attempt to create acidity in the blood must be buffered by mineral stores. High protein, hard exercise, wine and coffee all create acids that must be dealt with by minerals that act as buffers. A prolonged imbalance will invariably lead to deficits that come on slowly and insidiously. Then not only do you deal with the sypmtoms (they are numerous and serious), whcih ususally involves adding something else that is toxic to the body, say drugs, but you must figure out how to rebalance your minerals.

i.e., I need more magnesium...but what does that require from my calcium intake? What about other minerals, tarce minerals? Since I now have to restore magnesium artificially, since I am in serious deficit, I may need to use synthetics - but which one, and how much, and how will my body deal with this nutrient that is now not in its synergistic natural state? I probably have absorption problems at this point, (praticularly if I have *candida problems*) so how do I get this stuff in me? I'll need more fats but which ones and in what proportion and by what means? More synthetics? And the cycle continues.

What I mean by "when it hits you" is that it *will* hit you. It's not magic, but math. More minerals out than in equals deficit. Vit D and Vit A and mienrals are the bedrock of all good health; b/c A and D in the context of the natural fats that embody them are essential to absorb and use minerals, and we are kept healthy and functional by our mineral stores. Of this there is no question.

You won't be aware of early depletion. You will be aware clearly when you're in the danger zone. Many malfunctions of the bones, muscles and nervous system, and sleep, etc. will come upon you and you will probably attribute them to everything but mineral depletion - cramps, twitching, skin pain, irritability, insomnia, poor nails and hair, agitation, dental problems, bowel problems, all manner of ill health. This is not to say that other nutrients are not needed for correction, but that without a bedrock of minerals, the other nutrients will not be effective in correcting the problem.

Often folks try to correct mineral deficienies, if they recognize them, in a matter of days or weeks, see no result and give up. It takes months of mineral rich food.

Exercise is good but it must be compensated for with real food, not supplements. If our poster was eating seriously dense foods like liver, butterfat, shellfish, organs, eggs, fish eggs, kefir, cream, cultured vegs, broth, cod liver oil and butter -smothered oats and butter-smothered greens along with mineral dense fruits like bananas, avacodos, mangos, pineapple, figs etc. I would not worry. But she says her diet is high protein which says muscle meat and beans to me and that she eats little fruit b/c of candida whcih says poor absorption to me and that she weighs 132lbs at 5'5" only eating 500 calories per day and working out a lot, which says her body is hanging onto whatever passes her lips in an attemtp to get adequate nutrition and to build a bit of fat to deal with toxins and provide hormones. (Sorry to use you like that )

BUT, to stay OT, her iodine levels may be just fine;)

Jane