Re: Who Can You Trust?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 16/09/2006 17:08:35 GMT Daylight Time, cindi22595@... writes:

whereas alternative may just waste your money.

Oh I don't know Cindi. Depends on the objective? Sort out hypoT, well no, that is not my experience of complementary medicine.

BUT, having said that, I wonder if all the alt. med. I have had has not helped me emotionally and spiritually and to perhaps have stopped me from getting a lot worse.

There is still a gap in the understanding in complementary medicine in the UK about the use of hormones - mind the gap!

Mo

HEPACTION Counselling & Healing Serviceshttp://www.hepactionuk.blogspot.com/

[Guest guest]

Totally agree, Abbe. Always wise to be questioning and mindful of the

flow of money. Sharon

> I have no doubt there are people in the professions

> that should not be there, people who are incompetent,

> immoral, and dangerous. The point is, however, these

> kind of people are everywhere and I have no doubt

> there are just as many in alternative health care.

> Maybe more since there is little if any regulation of

> alternative health care.

>

> Personally, I trust myself.

[Guest guest]

I don't think people who do their homework believe that at all.  They know the alternative market is a jungle also as is conventional medicine.  In fact I think the majority of people would think negatively and have more doubts about alternative medicine.  LinnOn Sep 16, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Abbe wrote:I wonder why it is people seem to think only doctors,dentists, and Big Pharma could be guilty of endorsingtreatments and substances that not only do not workbut may be harmful.At least these are regulated to some degree. Thinkabout what *could* be going on in alternative healthcare.. 

[Guest guest]

Probly not but for the most part alternative meds do not kill or maim on the large scale that conventional meds do. You might waste your money on something, but not lose years off your life.

Gracia

I don't think people who do their homework believe that at all. They know the alternative market is a jungle also as is conventional medicine. In fact I think the majority of people would think negatively and have more doubts about alternative medicine.

Linn

On Sep 16, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Abbe wrote:

I wonder why it is people seem to think only doctors,dentists, and Big Pharma could be guilty of endorsingtreatments and substances that not only do not workbut may be harmful.At least these are regulated to some degree. Thinkabout what *could* be going on in alternative healthcare.

..

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.3/446 - Release Date: 9/12/2006

[Guest guest]

ah...the emotional/spiritual aspect..i wasn't factoring that aspect in...you are right. I don't think any alternative doc could affect me like some mainstream docs have in those areas. cindihepaction@... wrote: In a message dated 16/09/2006 17:08:35 GMT Daylight Time, cindi22595@... writes: whereas alternative may just waste your money. Oh I don't know Cindi. Depends on the objective? Sort out hypoT, well no, that is not my experience of complementary medicine. BUT, having said that, I wonder if all the alt. med. I have had has not helped me emotionally and spiritually and to perhaps have stopped me from getting a lot worse. There is still a gap in the understanding in complementary medicine in the UK about the use of hormones - mind the gap! Mo HEPACTION Counselling & Healing Serviceshttp://www.hepactionuk.blogspot.com/ __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

ya know what i can't figure out...why is mainstream medicine so totally ignorant about hormones. To me...if your endocrine system has gone wonky, all sorts of things go wonky (love that word) with your body..and they (maintstream) seem to have no grasp of this...it's just "here, take this pill" if you have a symptom....never "let's balance your hormones". venting, cindi hepaction@... wrote: In a message dated 16/09/2006 17:08:35 GMT Daylight Time, cindi22595@... writes: There is still a gap in the understanding in complementary medicine in the UK about the use of hormones - mind the

gap!

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

I think the way Armour has been marketed is genius. It is big pharm but is

trying (successfully)

to maintain the anti-establishment vibe and relies on word of mouth and possibly

runs websites

like stopthethyroidmadness.com. Get the patient to ask for it and maybe the

lazy doctor will work

through the difficulties of taking it and maybe they won't. The patient

switches doctors if not.

Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest pharmaceuticals.

" Forest

Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the drug's

dangers. " They're

as dirty as the rest of them.

http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/lexapro

--- Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

> in total agreement on that...i'd also say mainstream medicine harms more

whereas alternative may

> just waste your money. of course mainstream does too.

> cindi

>

>

> Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

>

> Probly not but for the most part alternative meds do not kill or maim on

the large scale

> that conventional meds do. You might waste your money on something, but not

lose years off your

> life.

> Gracia

>

> I don't think people who do their homework believe that at all. They know

the alternative

> market is a jungle also as is conventional medicine. In fact I think the

majority of people

> would think negatively and have more doubts about alternative medicine.

>

> Linn

>

> On Sep 16, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Abbe wrote:

>

> I wonder why it is people seem to think only doctors,

> dentists, and Big Pharma could be guilty of endorsing

> treatments and substances that not only do not work

> but may be harmful.

>

> At least these are regulated to some degree. Think

> about what *could* be going on in alternative health

> care.

>

>

>

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.3/446 - Release Date: 9/12/2006

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Do you ?

> Everyone is raving about the all-new .

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: <kennio@...>

>Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest

>pharmaceuticals. " Forest

>Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the

>drug's dangers. " They're

>as dirty as the rest of them.

That doesn't make it a bad product.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\

ltagline

[Guest guest]

Sick and out of balanced peoplear called " patients " . Patients allow

doctors to buy a new Mercedes, make monthy payents on their home, and

send their kids to college.

People who are healthy don't support doctors in the lifestyle they

like to live at.

So, consciously or unconsciously, doctors like people who are out of

balance, sickly, and spend lots of money on doctors.

The drug companies provide MOST of a doctor's information-- in Med

School, from sales reps, from literature. Do docs are turned into

pushers for the drug companies.

Orthomolecular medicine is a branch of medicine dealing with high dose

vitamins. They have a publication, the Journal of Orthomolecular

Medicine. Copies were sent to PubMed so others could learn from the

peer reviewed articles. But PubMed refused to index or mention the

Journal of Orthomolecular Mediine in their database

(http://www.doctoryourself.com/medline.htmlbulletin). So even docs who

want to learn more about nutritional approaches are thwarted by

PubMed's lack of indexing of important articles.

Alobar

On 9/16/06, Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> ya know what i can't figure out...why is mainstream medicine so totally

ignorant about hormones. To me...if your endocrine system has gone wonky, all

sorts of things go wonky (love that word) with your body..and they (maintstream)

seem to have no grasp of this...it's just " here, take this pill " if you have a

symptom....never " let's balance your hormones " .

> venting,

>

> cindi

>

[Guest guest]

Not at all. I was commenting on the brilliant stealth marketing by big pharm.

In fact this group

could have shills for the company... hmmm.

--- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> >From: <kennio@...>

>

> >Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest

> >pharmaceuticals. " Forest

> >Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the

> >drug's dangers. " They're

> >as dirty as the rest of them.

>

> That doesn't make it a bad product.

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

>

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\

ltagline

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

No, but it does make their claims suspect.

Alobar

On 9/16/06, Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> >From: <kennio@...>

>

> >Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest

> >pharmaceuticals. " Forest

> >Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the

> >drug's dangers. " They're

> >as dirty as the rest of them.

>

> That doesn't make it a bad product.

>

> Skipper

>

[Guest guest]

Has it Been marketed? I didn't think they did anything to market it at all...just took over the production of it. I remember someone telling me about Forest not knowing why sales had gone Up....and a patient had to explain to them it was "word of mouth". but forest doesn't run stopthethyroidmadness. that's purely one happy user of Armour who got together with other satisfied users and she started the site to help others. cindi <kennio@...> wrote: I think the way Armour has been marketed is genius. It is big pharm but is trying (successfully)to maintain the anti-establishment vibe and relies on word of mouth and possibly runs websiteslike stopthethyroidmadness.com.

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

what claims? cindiAlobar <Alobar@...> wrote: No, but it does make their claims suspect.AlobarOn 9/16/06, Skipper Beers wrote:> >From: >> >Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest> >pharmaceuticals. "Forest> >Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the> >drug's dangers." They're> >as dirty as the rest of them.

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

What stealth marketing? what are you talking about? for armour? you're obviously not a hypo patient who was miserable for over a decade on T4 only meds...and found total elimination of symptoms with all the thyroid hormones found in Armour. That tends to make for fervent testimony...and understandably so. cindi <kennio@...> wrote: Not at all. I was commenting on the brilliant stealth marketing by big pharm. In fact this groupcould have shills for the company... hmmm. --- Skipper Beers wrote:> >From: > > >Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest > >pharmaceuticals. "Forest> >Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the

> >drug's dangers." They're> >as dirty as the rest of them.> > That doesn't make it a bad product.> > Skipper> > _________________________________________________________________> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmailtagline> > __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I distrust claims of safety and usefulness of all drugs, whether they

are hormonal extacts or synthetic. Marketing gets people to want

drugs. And that puts money in the maniufatureres' pockets. So I

don't trust any ot them to be honest and to reveal any researech which

might show safety problems for those taking their drug.

Alobar

On 9/16/06, Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> what claims?

> cindi

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't believe for a minute that Forest pharmaceuticals is in the dark about

sales of one of

their products. The point was that the apparent LACK of marketing helps Armour

maintain it

anti-big pharm aura.... when in fact it is big pharm. I am sure they are active

on the internet

with stealth promotion, that's the way things are done nowadays; products,

movies, drugs, etc.

Again nothing against the drug, it seems to work for most.

--- Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

> Has it Been marketed? I didn't think they did anything to market it at

all...just took over the

> production of it.

> I remember someone telling me about Forest not knowing why sales had gone

Up....and a patient

> had to explain to them it was " word of mouth " . but forest doesn't run

stopthethyroidmadness.

> that's purely one happy user of Armour who got together with other satisfied

users and she

> started the site to help others.

> cindi

>

> <kennio@...> wrote:

> I think the way Armour has been marketed is genius. It is big pharm but is

trying

> (successfully)

> to maintain the anti-establishment vibe and relies on word of mouth and

possibly runs websites

> like stopthethyroidmadness.com.

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done

faster.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/16/2006 8:33:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladybugsandbees@... writes:

That may be true but if you look at the track record of Synthroid it has a far worse reputation for potency inconsistencies. That was Armour's first recall EVER. It was for loss of potency after almost 3 years. That's pretty good IMHO.

levothyroxine Had a voluntarily recall two weeks ago.

[Guest guest]

well i totally agree that i don't trust pharmaceutical claims...i just wasn't aware Forest did any marketing at all on armour...other than to say it's a hypothyroidism treatment. I guess the safety of Armour is it has been used for over 100 years..safely and effectively. one of those old timey remedies before big pharm needed a patented product i guess. can ya tell i use Armour? :-) cindi Alobar <Alobar@...> wrote: I distrust claims of safety and usefulness of all drugs, whether theyare hormonal extacts or synthetic. Marketing gets people to wantdrugs. And that puts money in the maniufatureres' pockets. So Idon't trust any ot them to be honest and to reveal any researech whichmight show safety problems for those taking their

drug.AlobarOn 9/16/06, Cindi wrote:>>>> what claims?> cindi>>Iodine

[Guest guest]

Calm yourself. Armour is made by BIG PHARM. Big pharm promotes their products

one way or the

other. I am not commenting on it's efficacy. Where exactly are you getting the

impression that I

am saying Armour doesn't work?? Read the my posts.

--- Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

> What stealth marketing? what are you talking about? for armour? you're

obviously not a hypo

> patient who was miserable for over a decade on T4 only meds...and found total

elimination of

> symptoms with all the thyroid hormones found in Armour. That tends to make

for fervent

> testimony...and understandably so.

> cindi

>

>

> <kennio@...> wrote:

> Not at all. I was commenting on the brilliant stealth marketing by big

pharm. In fact this

> group

> could have shills for the company... hmmm.

>

> --- Skipper Beers wrote:

>

> > >From:

> >

> > >Armour is made side by side with anti-depressants by Forest

> > >pharmaceuticals. " Forest

> > >Pharmaceutical, the manufacturer of Lexapro, continues to downplay the

> > >drug's dangers. " They're

> > >as dirty as the rest of them.

> >

> > That doesn't make it a bad product.

> >

> > Skipper

> >

> > _________________________________________________________________

> > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

> >

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\

ltagline

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I think you're totally wrong...but you'd probably have to listen to all the satisfied users I have who changed from a T4 med to Armour - to change your mind. But there's no denying it was in use long before big pharma started trying to make profits from patented drugs. I tell ya...I wish Forest WAS into stealth promotion...because there are sure a lot of women out there who need to hear about it...but i've never run across anything like you're talking about. just happy armour users. I'd lie, cheat, and steal to keep my armour...and ordinarily, i'm an honest woman. ok...stepping off armour soapbox, cindi <kennio@...> wrote: I don't believe for a minute that Forest pharmaceuticals is in the dark about sales of one oftheir products. The

point was that the apparent LACK of marketing helps Armour maintain itanti-big pharm aura.... when in fact it is big pharm. I am sure they are active on the internetwith stealth promotion, that's the way things are done nowadays; products, movies, drugs, etc.

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Hi cindi,I like the word wonky too. That was all I heard for 2

years " take a pill " until I came back with some wacked out blood

work.Because I hadn't gained any weight yet nobody looked into

anything but depression. LOL

Debbie

In iodine , Alobar <Alobar@...> wrote:

>

> Sick and out of balanced peoplear called " patients " . Patients

allow

> doctors to buy a new Mercedes, make monthy payents on their home,

and

> send their kids to college.

>

> People who are healthy don't support doctors in the lifestyle they

> like to live at.

>

> So, consciously or unconsciously, doctors like people who are out of

> balance, sickly, and spend lots of money on doctors.

>

> The drug companies provide MOST of a doctor's information-- in Med

> School, from sales reps, from literature. Do docs are turned into

> pushers for the drug companies.

>

> Orthomolecular medicine is a branch of medicine dealing with high

dose

> vitamins. They have a publication, the Journal of Orthomolecular

> Medicine. Copies were sent to PubMed so others could learn from

the

> peer reviewed articles. But PubMed refused to index or mention the

> Journal of Orthomolecular Mediine in their database

> (http://www.doctoryourself.com/medline.htmlbulletin). So even docs

who

> want to learn more about nutritional approaches are thwarted by

> PubMed's lack of indexing of important articles.

>

> Alobar

>

>

>

> On 9/16/06, Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > ya know what i can't figure out...why is mainstream medicine so

totally ignorant about hormones. To me...if your endocrine system has

gone wonky, all sorts of things go wonky (love that word) with your

body..and they (maintstream) seem to have no grasp of this...it's

just " here, take this pill " if you have a symptom....never " let's

balance your hormones " .

> > venting,

> >

> > cindi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Armour may relieve symptoms but it in now way promotes healing. May

be eeded by some. But geting one's body to make its own hormones is,

imo, far superior, if that is possible. If docs have desrtroyed

one's thyroid or removed it, there probably no other choices. But of

one still has a thyroid, even if it is not functioning at a high

level, it may be worth the effort to try to get it working properly

rather than taking Armour.

Alobar

On 9/16/06, Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> I think you're totally wrong...but you'd probably have to listen to all the

satisfied users I have who changed from a T4 med to Armour - to change your

mind.

> But there's no denying it was in use long before big pharma started trying to

make profits from patented drugs.

> I tell ya...I wish Forest WAS into stealth promotion...because there are sure

a lot of women out there who need to hear about it...but i've never run across

anything like you're talking about. just happy armour users. I'd lie, cheat,

and steal to keep my armour...and ordinarily, i'm an honest woman.

> ok...stepping off armour soapbox,

>

> cindi

[Guest guest]

I'm all calm...pretty mellow actually. but Armour gets enough of a bad rep from the pharm. reps when they talk to docs ...so those of us who use it are fairly protective of it. and we users of it wish Forest Would promote it...but it's not a very profitable product I wouldn't think. cindi <kennio@...> wrote: Calm yourself. Armour is made by BIG PHARM. Big pharm promotes their products one way or theother. I am not commenting on it's efficacy.

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

no disagreement...but one problem with us Hashi's folks is so many of get diagnosed after a decade or two of symtoms...and the fibrous infiltration of the gland...or outright gland atrophy from the disease....doesn't leave us much option other than supplement missing hormone. but true, endocrine replacement is Never as good as the body doing it. But at age 50, trying to undo the damage ASAP to my body from not enough thyroid hormone for 15 years or so seemed to take priority for me. cindi Alobar <Alobar@...> wrote: Armour may relieve symptoms but it in now way promotes healing. Maybe eeded by some. But geting one's body to make its own hormones is,imo, far superior, if that is possible. If docs have desrtroyedone's thyroid or removed it, there probably no other choices.

But ofone still has a thyroid, even if it is not functioning at a highlevel, it may be worth the effort to try to get it working properlyrather than taking Armour.

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business.

[Guest guest]

I messed up my body's ability to handle carbs thru a lifetime of bad

diet. I only began to use supplements to revitalize my pancreas and

change my diet to assist my cells to become less insulin resistent

when I was 56. Now, at 61, I can see that I am making progress. It

took decades to get into bad shape, so I should not expect to reverse

the problem in a few months.

Everyone is different. For some, it may not be possible to

revitalize the thyroid, so Armour may be the way to go. I just

like to remind folks that while Armour may be better than artificial

Thyroid hormone, not needing to take any hormones seems to me to be

far better, if possible.

Alobar

On 9/16/06, Cindi <cindi22595@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> no disagreement...but one problem with us Hashi's folks is so many of get

diagnosed after a decade or two of symtoms...and the fibrous infiltration of the

gland...or outright gland atrophy from the disease....doesn't leave us much

option other than supplement missing hormone. but true, endocrine replacement

is Never as good as the body doing it. But at age 50, trying to undo the damage

ASAP to my body from not enough thyroid hormone for 15 years or so seemed to

take priority for me.

>

> cindi