Iodine-troublesome effects

[Guest guest]

I believe Kathleen and Abbe were just taking 1 Iodoral/day. While this is

mega-dosing in comparison to the RDA for iodine, it's supposedly the same as

the average Japanese consumption. Are the Japanese mega-dosing?

There was a recent post concerning about a doctor's office where several

doctors and their staff took the iodine loading test, scored low, started on

Iodoral, and developed stomach pains that have continued 4 months after

discontinuation of Iodoral. Since their iodine loading test results were

low, that doesn't seem to have predictive value as to who develops digestive

problems.

I'm waiting for my Iodoral order to come in, but these recent posts about

troublesome effects from Iodoral have me concerned.

Lynn

From: " " <kennio@...>

> Sharon, Abbe, Kathleen have any of you done the test for Iodine saturation

> levels before mega-dosing? If so, what were the results? Maybe you don't

need

> the Iodine.

> low energy till I stopped my 1xday tab. Thank you for sharing

> > Kathleen

[Guest guest]

outlier - my new favorite word. If I understand what Gracia is saying

(sometimes I don't) I guess you could say that taking a low dose of iodine is

similar to you choosing to dig a ditch with a spoon instead of a shovel both

are potential back breaking but one will get the dirt out quicker. If the

toxin that is leaving your body can be moved out quicker maybe you will only

feel bad for a day or two as opposed to a week or more.

I came at this mega-dosing knowing that there would be some de-toxing effects

and symptoms. I jumped right up to 50mg immediately and felt a number of

cramps and pains and incredible fatigue at times for the first 3-4 weeks. To me

that was a GOOD sign...it was working... I only had to do this once and for a

limited amount of time. I did drop down to 25mg a couple days because of

symptoms. All the symptoms were transitory. The occasional lump in the throat

feeling is certainly just tension and fear of the iodine dosing I determined

because if I went for a walk or focused on a task the feeling went away. BTW,

I was having my blood drawn every 3 weeks to keep an eye on TSH, kidneys and

liver, etc; nothing in my blood work indicated any body stress which to be

honest surprised me.

I did listen to Abrhams about the 1200mg of magnesium will dosing. Cramps and

neck tension with me are absolutely mag deficiency. I also drank a lot of

water to not only to keep hydrated but to flush out toxins. The last 6 weeks

have been a piece of cake... no symptoms at all. As for gastric issues, the

only thing I can think of is that for a while there a lot of water seemed drawn

to my colon and I was having a couple BM's a day. I was on metamucil for 15

years so this was great for me. Now one BM a day without having to use

metamucil.

--- Lynn McGaha <lmcgaha@...> wrote:

> Is Gracia an outlier in her opinion here, or do others of you also believe

> the problems come with too low a dose? Has anyone had what appeared to be

> symptoms indictive of intolerance to Iodoral or Lugol's gone away with

> continued or increased dosage?

>

> Lynn

> Lynn I am convinced the probs come with too low a dose, and troublesome

> hypo symptoms are transitory. The insert says that best results are obtained

> on 50mg/day for 3 months or in my case 4. I don't think it's completely

> easy to work with but is really worth it. In fact maybe the more deficient

> a person is, the harder it is.

> Gracia

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I wonder what an outlier is I think I must be one. It's interesting b/c using hormones presents the same problems--too little can make a person feel even sicker as receptors wake up and ask for more. It is sometimes very hard to convince someone that they are not "allergic" to Armour, but that 60mg would give anyone a headache.

I also tried a few times to lower Iodoral dose and each time my symptoms were mental--anxiety, depression, miserable mood. When I went back to 50mg these symptoms went away--poof.

Right now I have been out of Iodoral since Friday. My hair was just becoming thick and strong and now that is reversing, with tingling scalp, general feeling of unwellness. I will be glad to see UPS man.

Gracia

outlier - my new favorite word. If I understand what Gracia is saying(sometimes I don't) I guess you could say that taking a low dose of iodine issimilar to you choosing to dig a ditch with a spoon instead of a shovel bothare potential back breaking but one will get the dirt out quicker. If thetoxin that is leaving your body can be moved out quicker maybe you will onlyfeel bad for a day or two as opposed to a week or more.I came at this mega-dosing knowing that there would be some de-toxing effectsand symptoms. I jumped right up to 50mg immediately and felt a number ofcramps and pains and incredible fatigue at times for the first 3-4 weeks. To methat was a GOOD sign...it was working... I only had to do this once and for alimited amount of time. I did drop down to 25mg a couple days because ofsymptoms. All the symptoms were transitory. The occasional lump in the throatfeeling is certainly just tension and fear of the iodine dosing I determinedbecause if I went for a walk or focused on a task the feeling went away. BTW,I was having my blood drawn every 3 weeks to keep an eye on TSH, kidneys andliver, etc; nothing in my blood work indicated any body stress which to behonest surprised me.I did listen to Abrhams about the 1200mg of magnesium will dosing. Cramps andneck tension with me are absolutely mag deficiency. I also drank a lot ofwater to not only to keep hydrated but to flush out toxins. The last 6 weekshave been a piece of cake... no symptoms at all. As for gastric issues, theonly thing I can think of is that for a while there a lot of water seemed drawnto my colon and I was having a couple BM's a day. I was on metamucil for 15years so this was great for me. Now one BM a day without having to usemetamucil.--- Lynn McGaha <lmcgahaatcjet (DOT) net> wrote:> Is Gracia an outlier in her opinion here, or do others of you also believe> the problems come with too low a dose? Has anyone had what appeared to be> symptoms indictive of intolerance to Iodoral or Lugol's gone away with> continued or increased dosage?> > Lynn> Lynn I am convinced the probs come with too low a dose, and troublesome> hypo symptoms are transitory. The insert says that best results are obtained> on 50mg/day for 3 months or in my case 4. I don't think it's completely> easy to work with but is really worth it. In fact maybe the more deficient> a person is, the harder it is.> Gracia__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

, in your experience is it recommended to be on Thyroid meds

while taking Iodoral? And what other supplements is recommended

besides Mg?

Thank you

Kathleen

>

> > Is Gracia an outlier in her opinion here, or do others of you

also believe

> > the problems come with too low a dose? Has anyone had what

appeared to be

> > symptoms indictive of intolerance to Iodoral or Lugol's gone away

with

> > continued or increased dosage?

> >

> > Lynn

> > Lynn I am convinced the probs come with too low a dose, and

troublesome

> > hypo symptoms are transitory. The insert says that best results

are obtained

> > on 50mg/day for 3 months or in my case 4. I don't think it's

completely

> > easy to work with but is really worth it. In fact maybe the

more deficient

> > a person is, the harder it is.

> > Gracia

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

>Reply-iodine

><iodine >

>Subject: Re: Iodine-troublesome effects

>Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:02:13 -0500

>

>It's interesting b/c using hormones presents the same problems--too little

>can make a person feel even sicker as receptors wake up and ask for more.

>It is sometimes very hard to convince someone that they are not " allergic "

>to Armour, but that 60mg would give anyone a headache.

This backs up what Gracia is saying. It's from the Synthroid website and

tells you if inadequate doses are given, it'll make things worse. It can

cause additional symptoms. (You know that placebo dose the doc gives you so

she can say, " I told you it wasn't your thyroid, thyroid hormone only makes

things worse for you. " )

http://rxlist.com/cgi/generic/levothy_ad.htm

Inadequate doses of levothyroxine sodium may produce or fail to resolve

symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I tried to adjust the thyroid meds down like Brownstein says is sometimes

necessary and I went hypo very quickly. I went on vacation while taking

Iodoral and had to increase my thyroid hormone because I went hypo for some

reason. Not sure exactly what is recommended but I am sure there is

information in the database about all the supplements to take. I know we

determined that selenium (200-300mcg) is very important to take while

mega-dosing.

I took a DNA test to determine what nutrients I genetically have a problem

absorbing and I get occasional RBC (red blood Cell) analysis to help me

customize the nutrients I take.

--- kathleen_nick42 <hanlonk@...> wrote:

> , in your experience is it recommended to be on Thyroid meds

> while taking Iodoral? And what other supplements is recommended

> besides Mg?

>

> Thank you

> Kathleen

>

>

> >

> > > Is Gracia an outlier in her opinion here, or do others of you

> also believe

> > > the problems come with too low a dose? Has anyone had what

> appeared to be

> > > symptoms indictive of intolerance to Iodoral or Lugol's gone away

> with

> > > continued or increased dosage?

> > >

> > > Lynn

> > > Lynn I am convinced the probs come with too low a dose, and

> troublesome

> > > hypo symptoms are transitory. The insert says that best results

> are obtained

> > > on 50mg/day for 3 months or in my case 4. I don't think it's

> completely

> > > easy to work with but is really worth it. In fact maybe the

> more deficient

> > > a person is, the harder it is.

> > > Gracia

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Gracia,

In statistics, an outlier is a single observation "far away" from the rest of the data, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier. Sort of like saying a person is alone in their thoughts.

Lynn

I wonder what an outlier is I think I must be one. Gracia

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I like it!

Gracia

Gracia,

In statistics, an outlier is a single observation "far away" from the rest of the data, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier. Sort of like saying a person is alone in their thoughts.

Lynn

I wonder what an outlier is I think I must be one. Gracia

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[Guest guest]

>Posted by: "Lynn McGaha" lmcgaha@... lynnmcgaha

>Sun Jul 9, 2006 8:28 pm (PST)

>Is Gracia an outlier in her opinion here, or do others of you also believe the problems come with too low a >dose? Has anyone had what appeared to be symptoms indictive of intolerance to Iodoral or Lugol's gone >away with continued or increased dosage?>Lynn

I personally had gruesome results on Ioderal. First week of 1 tablet was great, felt like a few decades were subtracted from my age. As I increased to 2 then 3 tablets, boy did I get sick. I had a total shutdown of my thyroid that lasted and lasted. Some of my reactions may have been bromide/fluoride detox, but I have since learned that anything with SSKI does not agree with me--or my thyroid! Also tried Lugol's with same results. My iodine loading test came back--I can't remember the exact number, but the test indicated I was very low.

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

>Posted by: "" kennio@... Kennio

>Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:52 am (PST)

>I tried to adjust the thyroid meds down like Brownstein says is sometimes>necessary and I went hypo very quickly. I went on vacation while taking>Iodoral and had to increase my thyroid hormone because I went hypo for some>reason.

Were you permanently then at the higher level of thyroid hormone? Doesn't this worry you? Why would your body need more thyroid hormone? This has recently happened to me on Iosol and I am thinking the iodine is shutting down my thyroid, which I take to be a bad thing :-(

>I took a DNA test to determine what nutrients I genetically have a problem>absorbing and I get occasional RBC (red blood Cell) analysis to help me>customize the nutrients I take.

could you please post info on getting that DNA test? do you use doctor's data for RBC? do you test all minerals?

thanks,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

Go to sciona.com for info on the DNA testing. I found it useful to determined

my genetic issues that need watching and extra supplementing. Use a false

name, some of the data you receive may not be something that you would want

insurance companies to get a hold of.

The RBC analysis was doctors data testing.

http://www.doctorsdata.com/repository.asp?id=1273

--- srapp785@... wrote:

> >Posted by: " " kennio@... Kennio

> >Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:52 am (PST)

> >I tried to adjust the thyroid meds down like Brownstein says is

> sometimes

> >necessary and I went hypo very quickly. I went on vacation while taking

> >Iodoral and had to increase my thyroid hormone because I went hypo for

> some

> >reason.

>

> Were you permanently then at the higher level of thyroid hormone? Doesn't

> this worry you? Why would your body need more thyroid hormone? This has

> recently happened to me on Iosol and I am thinking the iodine is shutting

> down my thyroid, which I take to be a bad thing :-(

>

> >I took a DNA test to determine what nutrients I genetically have a

> problem

> >absorbing and I get occasional RBC (red blood Cell) analysis to help me

> >customize the nutrients I take.

>

> could you please post info on getting that DNA test? do you use doctor's

> data for RBC? do you test all minerals?

>

> thanks,

> Dahlia

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, when the thyroid gets enough more iodide that it passes a certain threshold (referred to as the Wolff-Chaikoff effect), the thyroid shuts down. Thyroid hormone manufacture is inhibited, as well as thyroid hormone release from the thyroid.

This excess iodide in the thyroid triggers a reduction in the creation of cell membrane receptors (NIS) for iodide. This reduces the iodide brought into the cell, thus reducing the levels of iodide in the thyroid, and everything returns to normal. This adjustment process can take a couple days, and is part of the "autoregulatory" ability of the thyroid.

However, in some people, the mechanism may not work correctly. For example, the thyroid may not shut down when it should, and may end up creating too many hormones = iodide-induced hyperthyroidism.

In other people, the thyroid may not adapt and get the iodide levels back to normal and may therefore continue the inhibition process, instead of terminating it. In that case, the person would have levels of hormone that are too low = iodide-induced hypothyroidism.

For most people, however, the mechanism works beautifully, and the thyroid readily adapts to changing levels of iodide.

How much iodine is too much is totally individual. For some people, even the RDA of 150 mcg is too much. Most people, however, can take more than 1000 mcg with no problems.

If your thyroid is not adapting after 48-55 hours, stop the iodine.

Zoe

Why would your body need more thyroid hormone? This has recently happened to me on Iosol and I am thinking the iodine is shutting down my thyroid, which I take to be a bad thing :-(

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

<<<If your thyroid is not adapting after 48-55 hours, stop the iodine>>> Could you clarify "adapting"? Thanks MichiganZoe & <ZOEA@...> wrote: Yes, when the thyroid gets enough more iodide that it passes a certain threshold (referred to as the Wolff-Chaikoff effect), the thyroid shuts down. Thyroid hormone manufacture is inhibited, as well as thyroid hormone release from the

thyroid. This excess iodide in the thyroid triggers a reduction in the creation of cell membrane receptors (NIS) for iodide. This reduces the iodide brought into the cell, thus reducing the levels of iodide in the thyroid, and everything returns to normal. This adjustment process can take a couple days, and is part of the "autoregulatory" ability of the thyroid. However, in some people, the mechanism may not work correctly. For example, the thyroid may not shut down when it should, and may end up creating too many hormones = iodide-induced hyperthyroidism. In other people, the thyroid may not adapt and get the iodide levels back to normal and may therefore continue the inhibition process, instead of terminating it. In that case, the person would have levels of hormone that are too low = iodide-induced hypothyroidism. For

most people, however, the mechanism works beautifully, and the thyroid readily adapts to changing levels of iodide. How much iodine is too much is totally individual. For some people, even the RDA of 150 mcg is too much. Most people, however, can take more than 1000 mcg with no problems. If your thyroid is not adapting after 48-55 hours, stop the iodine. Zoe Why would your body need more thyroid hormone? This has recently happened to me on Iosol and I am thinking the iodine is shutting down my thyroid, which I take to be a bad thing :-( Dahlia

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

,

Some people, because of their long history of dealing with thyroid issues, are able to judge if they are "hypo" (too low) or "hyper" (too high) with their thyroid hormones by keeping track of their symptoms.

For example, I tend to be "hypo" and when my hormone levels are way too low, it is almost impossible for me to get out of bed or to stand up. The smaller variations in hormone levels, I can't judge. But anything major is impossible to miss. If my hormones were turned off for 3 days and I was not taking Armour, I would know that my hormones were low.

If you are capable of making this evaluation and you KNOW that you are experiencing strong hypo symptoms that started when you started taking iodine, do not be concerned unless the symptoms continue for more than 50 hours. That is normal.

However, if these strong hypo symptoms continue more than 3 days, it is possible that your thyroid is not adjusting appropriately to the increase in iodine. For example, with a significant increase in iodine, it is normal for the thyroid production and secretion to shut down. However, it is supposed to adapt to the increased iodine within about 48 hours and import less iodide into the cell. (Actually, it starts the process of adapting at about 6 hours, and things are usually completely back to normal by 48 hours.)

If this mechanism is defective, the thyroid may not adapt to the increased iodine, and may not reduce the number of NIS transporters on the cell membrane. If it does not reduce the NIS and, thereby, reduce the amount of iodide imported into the cell, the cell will continue to have too much iodide.

Having too much iodide within the thyroid cell inhibits thyroid hormone production. Therefore, if the thyroid does not "adapt" by changing its NIS, it will continue to have too much iodide and continue to inhibit thyroid hormone production. This thyroidal defect is not common, but it does happen. So, it is good to be aware that it can happen. It is also good not to be concerned if you are a bit "hypo" those first two days.

This is one of the things that thyroid testing can pick up. For example, if you know your usual levels of T3, T4, and TSH, you may want to get another set of tests sometime after starting the iodine. If you are hypo, and your T3 and T4 go significantly down and your TSH goes significantly up, that may indicate a problem.

Obviously, with "hyper" symptoms, the example would go the other way.

Notice that the thyroid is NOT responding to the amount of iodine in the blood or the amount you are taking. Rather, it is responding to the amount of iodide within the thyroid. The "autoregulation" of the thyroid refers to how the thyroid responds to different amounts of iodide within the thyroid.

Notice that the thyroid will inhibit its thyroid hormone production only if the amount of iodine in the thyroid exceeds a certain critical threshold. This threshold differs for different people. For people with a history of iodine insufficiency, the threshold tends to be lower than the threshold for people who have had plenty of iodine.

Hope this helps.

Zoe

<<<If your thyroid is not adapting after 48-55 hours, stop the iodine>>>

Could you clarify "adapting"?

Thanks

MichiganZoe & <ZOEA@...> wrote:

Yes, when the thyroid gets enough more iodide that it passes a certain threshold (referred to as the Wolff-Chaikoff effect), the thyroid shuts down. Thyroid hormone manufacture is inhibited, as well as thyroid hormone release from the thyroid.

This excess iodide in the thyroid triggers a reduction in the creation of cell membrane receptors (NIS) for iodide. This reduces the iodide brought into the cell, thus reducing the levels of iodide in the thyroid, and everything returns to normal. This adjustment process can take a couple days, and is part of the "autoregulatory" ability of the thyroid.

However, in some people, the mechanism may not work correctly. For example, the thyroid may not shut down when it should, and may end up creating too many hormones = iodide-induced hyperthyroidism.

In other people, the thyroid may not adapt and get the iodide levels back to normal and may therefore continue the inhibition process, instead of terminating it. In that case, the person would have levels of hormone that are too low = iodide-induced hypothyroidism.

For most people, however, the mechanism works beautifully, and the thyroid readily adapts to changing levels of iodide.

How much iodine is too much is totally individual. For some people, even the RDA of 150 mcg is too much. Most people, however, can take more than 1000 mcg with no problems.

If your thyroid is not adapting after 48-55 hours, stop the iodine.

Zoe

[Guest guest]

>Posted by: "" kennio@... Kennio

>Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:11 am (PST)

>Go to sciona.com for info on the DNA testing. I found it useful to determined>my genetic issues that need watching and extra supplementing. Use a false>name, some of the data you receive may not be something that you would want>insurance companies to get a hold of.>The RBC analysis was doctors data testing. >http://www.doctorsdata.com/repository.asp?id=1273

, thank you, that's great, Dahlia