Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 --- Alobar <Alobar@...> wrote: > " Labs " implies doctors. I can't afford doctors. > Back about 6 years > ago I took some time off work, stayed home, wrote a > lot at the > computer, and ate canned food. My ankles swelled > up. I asked a > friend who was a nurse. He said, " Try cutting back > on Sodium. " I > did so. Edema went away, and has not been back > since. > > By no means am I saying that high sodium is the > onlyu cause of ankle > swelling. But it is one of the causes which might > be looked at. > > Alobar When I woke this morning all of the swelling in my feet and ankles was gone. I don't know if you saw my other message (I have not gotten to all of the messages yet) in which I wrote that when I went on my walk the swelling went down. This is about more than salt. I think your comment about sitting at the computer is related as is the problem people experience on long airplane flights or postural. There is something called postural hypotension which I believe is part of this illness. If it was the salt, well I had a 1/4 teaspon Celtic Seal in 8 oz of water just before bed. Yes, I am standing at the computer Abbe __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 > > Abbe I have been on HC for almost 2 years. It has done nothing but GOOD > for me. I have lost 93 pounds in the last year and have not had a sick > day in a LONG time. Haven't bee to a doctor except for ONCE for a check > up fro anesthesia to have my teeth out in EIGHT years! But I take alot > of meds. Armour 6.5 grains a day and 30MG HC a day. I no longer have > swelling or fluid retention or pain in my legs, feet or anywhere. No > more headaches, and I love water where as before I couldn't drink it as > it tasted bad to me. ANY of it! I do use Lugol's topically, mainly > because it lowered my need for extra T3 meds but I still take 50- 70MCG a > day of Tertroxin (a T3 med) which works perfectly for my weird system. > When I took it orally, I felt worse, so I went back to topical > application and will most likely stay there. A couple weeks ago I tried > a different T3 med and man did I swell and my BP shot up really bad, but > I am back on my old meds now and all that is gone. this is why I know T3 > levels have ALOT to do with swelling and high BP. > Thanks , I do not doubt your good results with HC. I may change my mind. Right now, though, I still have the sense that it is not for me. More and more I am moving toward *no* medication. I do not consider Iodoral a medication but a natural substance to replenish my body. Maybe it will not work but I am going to try. Since I am not taking any medication responses to whatever I eat or take is much easier to figure out. Perhaps you did not notice a message I wrote in response to one of your messages. It contained test results (which, frankly I don't give much importance to but most everyone else seems to) my T3 is normal. Damn, standing rather than sitting at the computer is not easy. Abbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 > > > Abbe....I had a horrible problem with swollen ankle last summer when > my TSH was around 13.5. When I got it back down to normal levels the > swelling went away. I've not had much of problem since. I have serious > osteoarthritis in one ankle from an old break so swelling and damage > from that is very serious for me and I pay attention to my ankles. > > My TH was temporarily high from oral estrogen I was experimenting with > during the summer. I'm back on transdermal now with no problems and > feeling great. > > I'm curious why you don't see 23.68 as high? > > Lynn > Hi Lynn, Yes I had broken bones in one of my feet and that one was worse, but this is more than the old injury. I have read of people with TSH of 400-500, comparatively 23.68 is not high at all. I only quote the numbers on lists because of the high importance list-people seem to place on them. I don't. Abbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 It sounds like you changed several variables at once (exercise, standing instead of sitting, and extra salt). This, unfortunately, makes it difficult to determine which is the causative factor in relieving your swelling. On the other hand, if you are willing to keep them all up (and they don't cause any untoward side-effects), then it is a moot point. - > > When I woke this morning all of the swelling in my > feet and ankles was gone. I don't know if you saw my > other message (I have not gotten to all of the > messages yet) in which I wrote that when I went on my > walk the swelling went down. This is about more than > salt. I think your comment about sitting at the > computer is related as is the problem people > experience on long airplane flights or postural. > There is something called postural hypotension which I > believe is part of this illness. > > If it was the salt, well I had a 1/4 teaspon Celtic > Seal in 8 oz of water just before bed. > > Yes, I am standing at the computer > > > Abbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 No. I do not know how you got the idea that I changed a number of things. I did not change anything except the sitting. I continued exactly the same amount of salt intake. The only thing I did different was spend little time at the computer and when I did I stood. I also walked around more than I usually do. I mean in addition to my regular daily walks. I had no swelling all day and woke this morning with no swelling whatsoever. It appears to me Alobar nailed it with too much time at the computer. Abbe --- <truepatriot@...> wrote: > It sounds like you changed several variables at once > (exercise, standing instead of sitting, and extra > salt). > This, unfortunately, makes it difficult to determine > which is the causative factor in relieving your > swelling. > On the other hand, if you are willing to keep them > all up > (and they don't cause any untoward side-effects), > then it > is a moot point. > > - > > > > > > > When I woke this morning all of the swelling in my > > feet and ankles was gone. I don't know if you saw > my > > other message (I have not gotten to all of the > > messages yet) in which I wrote that when I went on > my > > walk the swelling went down. This is about more > than > > salt. I think your comment about sitting at the > > computer is related as is the problem people > > experience on long airplane flights or postural. > > There is something called postural hypotension > which I > > believe is part of this illness. > > > > If it was the salt, well I had a 1/4 teaspon > Celtic > > Seal in 8 oz of water just before bed. > > > > Yes, I am standing at the computer > > > > > > Abbe > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 >From: <artisticgroomer@...> >I take sea salt daily at about 1/2 to one full tsp. twice a day and it >has NEVER caused swelling. What HAS caused it is hypothyroidism. And >basically low T3. Bump my meds up and it stops. I believe this swelling (edema) is caused by the poor heart function of low thyroid. When the thyroid is low, the peripheral blood vessels constict causing cold hands and feet and poor mental function, and the blood volume drops. At the same time, edema increases because somehow adequate blood flow is necessary to clean that up. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 >From: Abbe <abbe_online@...> >I know swelling in the ankles/feet can be related to >heart problems but for a number of reasons I do not >think it is for me. > >I suspect either hypothyroidism, adrenals or both. The edema in hpothyroidism has a lot to do with the lowered heart function while hypothyroid. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 >>I believe this swelling (edema) is caused by the poor heart function of low thyroid. When the thyroid is low, the peripheral blood vessels constict causing cold hands and feet and poor mental function, and the blood volume drops. At the same time, edema increases because somehow adequate blood flow is necessary to clean that up.<< I think you are right except for one thing, I am not sure about lower blood volume as wouldn't that LOWER BP? Mine always goes very high when I have edema. -- Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 --- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: > > > > >From: Abbe <abbe_online@...> > > > > >I suspect either hypothyroidism, adrenals or both. > > The edema in hpothyroidism has a lot to do with the > lowered heart function > while hypothyroid. > > Skipper > Thank you, Skipper It is suggested that Mitral Valve Proplapse is related to hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with that many years ago. It went away. About six months ago I experienced extreme stress. This led to what I am and have been experiencing, no doubt. During the health work-up I found out the Mitral Valve Prolapse had returned. Otherwise, however, my heart is in good condition, so the cardiologist said. Maybe you read my other messages (?) Since I stopped sitting at the computer for hours on end all of the swelling in ankles and feet is gone. I do still have swelling around my eyes, however. Do you think the swelling around the eyes is related to 'lowered heart function while hypothyroid'? I started Iodoral today at much less than the recommended dose because I had been reacting to so many things. We'll see. Abbe __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 >From: " Abbe " <abbe_online@...> >I have read of people with TSH of 400-500, comparatively 23.68 is >not high at all. I only quote the numbers on lists because of the >high importance list-people seem to place on them. I don't. Comparatively. Yet, it is high enough for one to find themselves in a myxedema coma, if it's matched by low T3. The MEDIAN TSH when known hypos are excluded in large studies is 1.5. Very few have TSH over 3. And there's no question that since 5.5 is usually the high side of normal TSH, that only 2.25% of the population exceed 5.5. So, those people your " comparitively " comparing to are quite rare. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 --- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: > >From: " Abbe " <abbe_online@...> > > >I have read of people with TSH of 400-500, > comparatively 23.68 is > >not high at all. I only quote the numbers on lists > because of the > >high importance list-people seem to place on them. > I don't. > > Comparatively. Yet, it is high enough for one to > find themselves in a > myxedema coma, if it's matched by low T3. Thanks for pointing this out, Skipper They had not been testing T3 but when I changed doctors I insisted on a complete work up. My T3 was/is normal. I had read a bit by then questioned myxedema. My doctor said he was not at all concerned about it. As you can see I do the medical thing. I am responsible and realize I do not know everything Abbe __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 >>. My T3 was/is normal<< Oh Abbe, don;t let them just give you a " normal " .. I was dying of low thyroid but my labs were within " normal " ranges. You need your free T3 at the ver top if not slightly over the range for normal. -- Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 > > > > > > When I woke this morning all of the swelling in my > > > feet and ankles was gone. I don't know if you saw > > my > > > other message (I have not gotten to all of the > > > messages yet) in which I wrote that when I went on > > my > > > walk the swelling went down. This is about more > > than > > > salt. I think your comment about sitting at the > > > computer is related as is the problem people > > > experience on long airplane flights or postural. > > > There is something called postural hypotension > > which I > > > believe is part of this illness. > > > > > > If it was the salt, well I had a 1/4 teaspon > > Celtic > > > Seal in 8 oz of water just before bed. > > > > > > Yes, I am standing at the computer > > > > > > > > > Abbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 --- <truepatriot@...> wrote: <snip> > > OK, my apologies. Where I got the idea was your > comment > regarding the 1/4 tsp salt at night. I didn't > realize this > was something you've always done. Alas, the concept > of trying > one thing at a time is good to keep in mind, but it > seems it > does not apply here, as that is exactly what you > have done. <snip> No problem, . I just didn't understand why you thought I was doing a number of things. I had been doing the Celtic Sea Salt. I agree with you 100% about trying one thing at a time. I don't see how else I could figure out what is going on with me. Thanks, Abbe __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 >From: Abbe <abbe_online@...> > >It is suggested that Mitral Valve Proplapse is related >to hypothyroidism. My wife was diagnosed with MVP by an ultrasound by a cardiologist. After adequate thyroid treatment a different cardiologist told her he doubted she had MVP, it only sounded like a mild murmer. Hypothyroidism makes the heart weak. To conserve energy and maintain BP, the periphehral blood vessels constrict and the blood volume decreases. >Maybe you read my other messages (?) Since I stopped >sitting at the computer for hours on end all of the >swelling in ankles and feet is gone. I do still have >swelling around my eyes, however. Do you think the >swelling around the eyes is related to 'lowered heart >function while hypothyroid'? Edema, including of the face is common in hypothyroidism. The original name for hypothyroidism was myxedema because of the swelling. > >I started Iodoral today at much less than the >recommended dose because I had been reacting to so >many things. We'll see. If you have an iodine deficiency, that will fix the problem completely. Selenium is also important (it helps convert inactive T4 to active T3) and commonly low in iodine deficient areas. The lab numbers don't mean nearly as much as they say, but the problem for the hypothyroid tends to be difficulty getting diagnosed in spite of TSH in the normal range. That being said, not everyone with elevated TSH is hypothyroid. But, I suspect most are. And only 2.25% of the population has a TSH in excess of 5.5. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 --- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: <snip> > My wife was diagnosed with MVP by an ultrasound by a > cardiologist. After > adequate thyroid treatment a different cardiologist > told her he doubted she > had MVP, it only sounded like a mild murmer. > About five years ago a doctor wanted me to have another ultrasound because the equipment had been improved. I did and the tech said I did not have MVP and I had never had it, because it does not come and go. The recent test indicated I do have MVP and I saw with my own eyes whatever it is they are calling MVP. The cardiologist told me, indeed, MVP can come and go. I told the cardiologist my view that under extreme stress the valve was blown out and perhaps relaxes back into place after an extended period with no stress. He said this is possible. Do you think the > >swelling around the eyes is related to 'lowered > heart > >function while hypothyroid'? > > Edema, including of the face is common in > hypothyroidism. The original name > for hypothyroidism was myxedema because of the > swelling. Thank you. I did not know about the original name. I do recall being frightened by what I read on myxedema and that is why I brought it up at the doctor's. <snip> > > Selenium is also important (it helps convert > inactive T4 to active T3) and > commonly low in iodine deficient areas. I tried selenium a number of weeks ago. I stopped because it seemed my response to it was not good. My health was not at all good at that point. There has been significant improvement and I may try it again. I just started Iodoral and do not want to mix things right now. I will see how it goes with Iodoral. > > The lab numbers don't mean nearly as much as they > say, but the problem for > the hypothyroid tends to be difficulty getting > diagnosed in spite of TSH in > the normal range. Yes, I have read numerous messages from people complaining they were unable to get treatment. I had no complaint. One of my doctors was watching the levels during general physical exams and telling me they were close to the point where I should be treated and finally recommended replacement. At the point treatment was recommended the only complaint I had was weight gain. If he had not prescribed replacement I would have only continued to adjust diet and exercise to address the weight gain. That being said, not everyone > with elevated TSH is > hypothyroid. But, I suspect most are. And only > 2.25% of the population has > a TSH in excess of 5.5. > > Skipper > I understand there are other issues with TSH, such as pituitary. I did not know, though, one could have elevated TSH and not be hypothyroid. Thanks, Skipper Not sitting at the computer for hours on end appears to have resolved my original complaint about swelling in lower ankles and feet. None whatsoever last two days. On waking, still swelling around the eyes, though, which seems to diminish as the day goes on. Abbe __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 >From: Abbe <abbe_online@...> >Reply-iodine >They had not been testing T3 but when I changed >doctors I insisted on a complete work up. My T3 >was/is normal. I had read a bit by then questioned >myxedema. My doctor said he was not at all concerned >about it. Can I assume you know what your actual lab reading of fT3 is? If you're at the very edge of low on the normal curve, you are still " normal " but only 2.25% of the population may have lower numbers than you. Which would not likely be a good place to be. I suppose the doctor that was treating my mother " was not at all concerned about it " either. Of course, the critical care doctor thought he had better give her thyroid meds when she went into the coma. He knew why she was in the coma. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 HELLO HELLO TSH of 23 is coma inducing. The #s are not important at all, except when they are as high as this. Many of us (like me) have been extremely ill, with a very low TSH, and were not allowed treatment. #s is just part of the language we use. gracia >> > Abbe....I had a horrible problem with swollen ankle last summer when> my TSH was around 13.5. When I got it back down to normal levels the> swelling went away. I've not had much of problem since. I have serious> osteoarthritis in one ankle from an old break so swelling and damage> from that is very serious for me and I pay attention to my ankles.> > My TH was temporarily high from oral estrogen I was experimenting with> during the summer. I'm back on transdermal now with no problems and> feeling great.> > I'm curious why you don't see 23.68 as high?> > Lynn>Hi Lynn,Yes I had broken bones in one of my feet and that one was worse, but this is more than the old injury.I have read of people with TSH of 400-500, comparatively 23.68 is not high at all. I only quote the numbers on lists because of the high importance list-people seem to place on them. I don't.Abbe No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release Date: 6/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 > TSH of 23 is coma inducing. The #s are not important at all, >except when they are as high as this. Many of us (like me) have >been extremely ill, with a very low TSH, and were not allowed >treatment. #s is just part of the language we use. > gracia I was practically in coma at a MUCH lower TSH, within old ref range. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 --- cbwillis9 <cbwillis9@...> wrote: > > > TSH of 23 is coma inducing. The #s are not > important at all, > >except when they are as high as this. Many of us > (like me) have > >been extremely ill, with a very low TSH, and were > not allowed > >treatment. #s is just part of the language we > use. > > gracia > > > I was practically in coma at a MUCH lower TSH, > within old ref > range. > > Carol Okay, but what is the total picture? I mean, for example, do you have a thyroid gland? Do you have hypothalamus or pituitary dysfunction? Are you hyperthyroid or hypothyroid? What are your other numbers or T4, T3? What, if any, other health conditions do you have? Things like that... Abbe __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 ABBE I don't think you are understanding what you are dealing with, and this is often the case when severely hypo. Reality becomes elusive. I had an unnecessary partial thyroidectomy at age 22 and then no meds b/c my TSH was low normal. I almost died and lost 30 years of my life---lost, gone. I have been both hyper and hypo---we know both conditions require iodine. Thyroid hormone affects every cell in the body--doesn't matter if you have other damage to H-P-A axis. You need to look at your symptoms plus TSH test and treat accordingly. gracia --- cbwillis9 <cbwillis9 > wrote:> > > TSH of 23 is coma inducing. The #s are not> important at all, > >except when they are as high as this. Many of us> (like me) have > >been extremely ill, with a very low TSH, and were> not allowed > >treatment. #s is just part of the language we> use.> > gracia> > > I was practically in coma at a MUCH lower TSH,> within old ref> range.> > CarolOkay, but what is the total picture?I mean, for example, do you have a thyroid gland?Do you have hypothalamus or pituitary dysfunction?Are you hyperthyroid or hypothyroid?What are your other numbers or T4, T3?What, if any, other health conditions do you have?Things like that...Abbe__________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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