RE: Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

November 20, 2006

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

>Skipper,

>I don't think I've ever written anywhere that I don't " like " iodine

>supplementation.

You said you weren't supplementing because it made you feel ill. That's

what I meant.

>And yes, because I felt ill on it may very well mean it's not a good

>thing for me.

It may. We are not all the same.

>That seems to be the sticking point for you?

It's not the " sticking point. " You see, I believe just because you didn't

feel well on it doesn't mean that wouldn't improve after a period of time.

If it did improve, it's likely you would be better off than you are now.

Well,

>it's consistent with the medical literature on autoimmune thyroid

>disease and/or could be a sensitivity to iodine which is also known

>in the literature.

Sure, listen to the medical profession. Just because they ADMIT to being

the fourth leading cause of death in the US doesn't mean you shouldn't

listen to their opinions.

If they're so smart, why'd it take them so long to treat your Hashi's?

Like I have mentioned before, when you have

>lived 15-25 years with Hashi's and have gotten stable at last...you

>might also be loathe to force yourself to become ill for some

>unknown gain.

I suspect many people on this list are in that same position. It is not

unusual to be hypothyroid for a long time without being diagnosed. I didn't

have Hashi's, but did take a long time to be diagnosed starting with the

first doctor visit for hypo symptoms. Eventually, I got more and more

fatigued, developed terrible foot pain so bad I limped when I walked for 4

years, and had all kinds of things going wrong. Often as one's life

continues to fall apart, he/she finally figure out what's wrong with them

and tells the doctor. The bad time you've had is not unusual when you're at

the mercy of our medical profession.

True, I can't guarantee that trying iodine again, or in larger doses will

help you.

Neither can you really be sure it will have continue to have a negative

effect on you.

My belief is if it's not making you hyper, it's very unlikely to be doing

any damage at all. More likely to be a detox type reaction, which tend to

be quite unpleasant for a while.

But, just because the medical profession doesn't like it doesn't mean much.

It's scary to be at the mercy of the medical profession because they've

killed and crippled us by the hundreds of thousand by their stupidity. I

couldn't even walk decently for 4 years because they couldn't diagnose a

simple thyroid condition.

Skipper

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November 20, 2006

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>damage to the gland with Hashi's also occurs independent of

>antibodies according to Werner & Ingbar's, The Thyroid. remember

>approx. 10% of Hashi's patients don't have antibodies.

Arem said they had antibodies, they just weren't capable of detecting the

particular kinds. Was he wrong?

So the

>disease can progress independent of antibodies. it's just that so

>many do have antibodies it a good tool to use for diagnostic

>purposes. young people with Hashi's also may not have developed

>antibodies yet. and yes, antibodies will go away as the disease

>has run its course. that's why a person with low antibodies can have

>more thyroid damage than someone with high antibodies.

It can also go away and leave the thyroid undamaged. I wasn't saying it

went away and left them all damaged without functioning thyroids.

Skipper

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November 20, 2006

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>If I felt there were symptoms to address, your comments would make

>more sense to me.

Low thyroid / low adrenals aren't symptoms?

Maybe not. May have no relation to iodine. One never knows for sure.

OTOH, many with thyroid problems find out when they go on Armour / synthroid

that problems they would never have related to low thyroid really were

caused by it. Could be the same with iodine.

>

>Are you not listening to just a few doctors' research on this? I

>don't think we can discount years of objective research and

>observation...and I do tend to take note when medical information

>validates my own experience. It took them so long to address my Hashi's

>because of reliance on a

>test to determine deficiency.

Don't all doctors believe in TSH because of " years of objective research " ?

(Maybe not, I think they just made the decision, as they often do about

things, that it was the way to go, and since they said it, that made it

" scientific. " I'm not sure how many doctors experimented with iodine and

Hashi's. Maybe more than spent time validating the accuracy of TSH in

diagnosing hypothyroid patients?)

>

Perhaps that does explain some of my

>reservations about the iodine loading test as the tell-all on iodine

>deficiency?

I don't know about the loading test either. It's not a new concept, as some

have said in the past that's allegedly the best way to test magnesium

levels.

As any test, it would have limitations. If you are excreting 90 percent of

the iodine, it could simply mean you can't absorb it for some reason other

than being " saturated. " If you're not, they may find there are reasons

some people simply can't get to 90 percent.

A test should just be a guideline. Have you had it done?

In what ways do you feel unwell when taking iodine?

Don't misunderstand. I'm not insisting you will definitely do better on

iodine. I'm saying it is possible that if you try it for a longer period of

time, or a higher dosage, it is possible it could be helpful to you. No one

should do what they're uncomfortable with and think won't help them.

Skipper

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November 20, 2006

Skipper,

Thank you so much for posting this.

I've had a serious cough for months but it had become much worse in

the last week or so. I couldn't sleep for coughing so much.

After I read your post on Saturday I took 3grams vit c immediately,

follwed by another 2 grams about half an hour later. I didn't cough

at all that night.

Next morning I coughed up a load of gunk (medical term!)

l repeated the 5 grams on Sunday morning and, in total, took 14 grams

that day.

Again I didn't cough last night but did bring up phlegm this morning.

I'm keeping up with the high dose vit c until I beat this thing

Lynda

>

> For example, if you take 250 mg of Vitamin C for a severe

> respiratory

> infection, it probably won't do much. Take 5 or 6,000 mg an hour,

> and it

> might cure it. I haven't had a serious respiratory infection since

> I found

> that out. It cured a pretty severe one. I used to have them for

> months at

> a time because I couldn't shake them.

>

> Skipper

>

November 20, 2006

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

>How about this for a compromise? since evidently I react to iodine

>supplementation negatively like another Hashi's patient, Shoman

>(achy/tired/ill) - when she starts taking iodine supplements...I'll

>try it again.

That sounds reasonable, if it's what you want to do. (My intention not to

force the issue.)

I stopped taking it the first couple times I was on it because I felt tired

and ill. I don't have Hashi's, but did not feel well taking it the first

couple times. So, it could be like me, you just didn't stick with it long

enough. Which is what I think happened to me. Or maybe even, I really did

need to back off for periods of time. Maybe by sticking with it I never

would have felt better, and only feel better because I did stop for long

periods of time in between. That's something I don't know.

All I know is I'm feeling a lot better on it now.

Skipper

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November 20, 2006

>From: " Lynda " <lynworth@...>

>Skipper,

>

>Thank you so much for posting this.

>I've had a serious cough for months but it had become much worse in

>the last week or so. I couldn't sleep for coughing so much.

>After I read your post on Saturday I took 3grams vit c immediately,

>follwed by another 2 grams about half an hour later. I didn't cough

>at all that night.

>Next morning I coughed up a load of gunk (medical term!)

>l repeated the 5 grams on Sunday morning and, in total, took 14 grams

>that day.

>Again I didn't cough last night but did bring up phlegm this morning.

>I'm keeping up with the high dose vit c until I beat this thing

If you search Dr. Cathcart, you come up with a lot of info on this.

He says one should take Vitamin C hourly when sick, until they reach " bowel

tolerance. " Then they should back off a gram, and keep that up until

better.

He also said once better, you should not stop the Vitamin C all at once, but

should wean yourself down or you could have a relapse.

It was because of his work that I tried taking Vitamin C in large doses when

I had a severe respiratory infection. On Monday my thyroid doc offered me

Augmentin because it sounded like I might have pneumonia, but I didn't take

it. I'd been on Augmentin for six weeks once, and like many antibiotics the

side effects are unpleasant. Tuesday I went to my family doc, got a

breathing treatment and a chest X-ray and was supposed to come back the next

day because I was so bad.

Instead, I started taking a handful of Vitamin C pills every hour. The next

morning, I could breathe just fine again. I didn't have to go through the

usual months to recover like from bronchitis or some mild infections I had,

I was simply better, and I cancelled my doctor appointment. That was

several years ago, and I haven't had a recurrence since, and I used to get

these severe cases every year.

" Bowel Tolerance " may be harder to find with buffered Vitamin C, which some

people use. Anyway, bowel tolerance is a lot higher when one is sick. Even

if you can only tolerate 1,000 mg of Vitamin C when you're well, you may

still tolerate many grams an hour when ill, because your body needs it.

It may work better than antibiotics (especially if it's viral, which

antibiotics can't help), but of course if the makers of Vitamin C say that

on the bottle, they get regulated like a drug by the FDA. That'll also

happen if " Codex " gets enforced here.

Skipper

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November 20, 2006

I don't know what dose you were on b4 Skipper, but dose really mattered to me. If I tried taking less than 50mg I was very unwell, worse than taking nothing.

Gracia

>From: "cindi22595" <cindi22595 >>>How about this for a compromise? since evidently I react to iodine>supplementation negatively like another Hashi's patient, Shoman>(achy/tired/ill) - when she starts taking iodine supplements...I'll>try it again.That sounds reasonable, if it's what you want to do. (My intention not to force the issue.)I stopped taking it the first couple times I was on it because I felt tired and ill. I don't have Hashi's, but did not feel well taking it the first couple times. So, it could be like me, you just didn't stick with it long enough. Which is what I think happened to me. Or maybe even, I really did need to back off for periods of time. Maybe by sticking with it I never would have felt better, and only feel better because I did stop for long periods of time in between. That's something I don't know.All I know is I'm feeling a lot better on it now.Skipper__________________________________________________________Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/

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November 20, 2006

Shoman is a bit of a nutjob, in my opinion.

--- cindi22595 <cindi22595@...> wrote:

> I no longer have low thyroid/low adrenal symptoms now that they are

> treated with the appropriate lacking hormones.

>

> No, all docs do not believe in TSH. many actually listen to their

> patient's symptoms and diagnose - as well as pay attention to their

> patients' response to various therapies...which can be quite

> individual.

>

> How about this for a compromise? since evidently I react to iodine

> supplementation negatively like another Hashi's patient, Shoman

> (achy/tired/ill) - when she starts taking iodine supplements...I'll

> try it again.

>

> http://thyroid.about.com/cs/vitaminsupplement/a/iodine_2.htm

>

> In the interim, I'll be watching to see if anyone develops AT from

> the high dose iodine they are taking as per the literature.

> Cindi

>

> >

> > >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

> >

> > >If I felt there were symptoms to address, your comments would make

> > >more sense to me.

> >

> > Low thyroid / low adrenals aren't symptoms?

>

> > >

> > Don't all doctors believe in TSH because of " years of objective

> research " ?

>

> >

> > I don't know about the loading test either. It's not a new

> concept, as some

> > have said in the past that's allegedly the best way to test

> magnesium

> > levels.

> >

> > In what ways do you feel unwell when taking iodine?

>

__________________________________________________

November 20, 2006

Cindi,

What do you mean by AT?

Re: Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

Shoman is a bit of a nutjob, in my opinion.--- cindi22595 <cindi22595 > wrote:> I no longer have low thyroid/low adrenal symptoms now that they are > treated with the appropriate lacking hormones. > > No, all docs do not believe in TSH. many actually listen to their > patient's symptoms and diagnose - as well as pay attention to their > patients' response to various therapies...which can be quite > individual. > > How about this for a compromise? since evidently I react to iodine > supplementation negatively like another Hashi's patient, Shoman > (achy/tired/ill) - when she starts taking iodine supplements...I'll > try it again.> > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/vitaminsupplement/a/iodine_2.htm> > In the interim, I'll be watching to see if anyone develops AT from > the high dose iodine they are taking as per the literature. > Cindi> > > > >> > >From: "cindi22595" <cindi22595@...>> > > > >If I felt there were symptoms to address, your comments would make> > >more sense to me.> > > > Low thyroid / low adrenals aren't symptoms?> > > > > > Don't all doctors believe in TSH because of "years of objective > research"? > > > > > I don't know about the loading test either. It's not a new > concept, as some > > have said in the past that's allegedly the best way to test > magnesium > > levels.> > > > > > In what ways do you feel unwell when taking iodine?> > > __________________________________________________

November 20, 2006

I have to believe this in my case. I have 4 our of 4 kids in my family that

have thyroid disease. 2-graves & 2 hashi's. Parents don't have TD or

obvious signs of TD. I suspect environmental b/c we grew up near industrial

site with smoke stacks. A steel mill. I don't think this is fixable, but

needs management. I don't know how iodine fits with this.

Amy

cindi22595

wrote:

1: Autoimmun Rev. 2002 Feb;1(1-2):97-103. Links

Like most autoimmune diseases of humans, chronic lymphocytic

(Hashimoto's)

thyroiditis results from the combination of a genetic

predisposition and an environmental trigger.

November 21, 2006

yes I definately had absorption issues which I think were addressed by cortef. I was interested to read that iodine increases stomach acid and eliminates "gastric reflux disease" but I never had that. I don't consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is what is recommended by the iodine docs. I take Armour 240mg which is pretty standard, 20mg cortef pretty standard.

Gracia

> For most of my life I have eaten a great diet and felt like I got very> little from it. > Gracia> Hi, Gracia,You take a large dose of Iodoral, and if I remember correctly perhapsa couple of other things in higher doses (not sure I'm recallingexactly). Then you mentioned that you eat a great diet & got littlefrom it.Have you considered the possibility of some sort of an absorptionissue? Just curious...

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November 21, 2006

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

> yes I definately had absorption issues which I think were addressed by

>cortef. I was interested to read that iodine increases stomach acid and

>eliminates " gastric reflux disease " but I never had that. I don't

>consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is what is recommended by the

>iodine docs. I take Armour 240mg which is pretty standard

On the high side of standard. Standard now is 1 to 3 grains. Not many

doctors exceed that. Langer who wrote " solved the Riddle of Illness " said

he'd never prescribed over 4 grains (or maybe 3, I know it was pretty low.)

According to my 1940 Merck Manual, 3 grains was a starting dosage, if the

troubles weren't fixed by reaching 9 grains it was another issue. Which is

why Dr. Derry said that the dose of Armour is now one-third of what it was

historically, before they started treating by the TSH number. Which is why

1 to 3 grains is a lot more common. Not because it always resolves

symptoms, but because it lowers TSH and they forget to look at symptoms.

Skipper

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November 21, 2006

>From: " angesc2001 " <AngInfoHound@...>

> > For most of my life I have eaten a great diet and felt like I got very

> > little from it.

> > Gracia

> >

>Hi, Gracia,

>

>You take a large dose of Iodoral, and if I remember correctly perhaps

>a couple of other things in higher doses (not sure I'm recalling

>exactly). Then you mentioned that you eat a great diet & got little

>from it.

>

>Have you considered the possibility of some sort of an absorption

>issue? Just curious...

>

Thyroid / adrenal issues / low stomach acid all cause absorption or

utilization issues.

Skipper

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November 21, 2006

Standard for Armour is not 1-3 grains on the support groups! That will keep peeps very sick. It is not standard for BB docs either.

Gracia

>From: "Gracia" <circe@...>> yes I definately had absorption issues which I think were addressed by >cortef. I was interested to read that iodine increases stomach acid and >eliminates "gastric reflux disease" but I never had that. I don't >consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is what is recommended by the >iodine docs. I take Armour 240mg which is pretty standardOn the high side of standard. Standard now is 1 to 3 grains. Not many doctors exceed that. Langer who wrote "solved the Riddle of Illness" said he'd never prescribed over 4 grains (or maybe 3, I know it was pretty low.)According to my 1940 Merck Manual, 3 grains was a starting dosage, if the troubles weren't fixed by reaching 9 grains it was another issue. Which is why Dr. Derry said that the dose of Armour is now one-third of what it was historically, before they started treating by the TSH number. Which is why 1 to 3 grains is a lot more common. Not because it always resolves symptoms, but because it lowers TSH and they forget to look at symptoms.Skipper__________________________________________________________Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

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November 21, 2006

Have you read the " The Concept of Orthoiodosupplementation and Its Clinical

Implications " ? It sure doesn't seem like you have. Iodine saturation is what

most here are trying to accomplish. The 12.5 mg is a maintenance dose once

sufficiency has been reached.

" Because of the improved overall well-being reported by the subjects who

achieved 90% or more iodide excreted, sufficiency was arbitrarily defined as

90%. Implementation of orthoiodosupplementation, based on the loading test,

revealed that sufficiency was not achieved in some subjects even after two

years of iodine supplementation at 1-2 tablets/day. To achieve sufficiency

within three months, most subjects required 3-4 tablets/day (37.5-50 mg). US

physicians over the past century recommended daily intakes between 0.1 ml and

0.3 ml of Lugol solution containing 12.5-37.5 mg elemental iodine. "

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-06/IOD_06.htm

--- cindi22595 <cindi22595@...> wrote:

> " Iodine " book says Dr. G. Abraham recommends a daily dose 12 mg. a day

> and that Brownstein has found an effective dose to be " somewhere

> between 12 and 50 mg. a day " . Have they changed their recommendation?

> Does Flechas recommend 50 mg. a day to everyone?

> What other iodine docs?

> cindi

>

> >

> > I don't consider 50mg a large dose of Iodoral b/c it is what is

> recommended by the iodine docs.

>

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RE: Re: Rind and iodine -- Sharon/Hashimoto's & Iodine

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