Re: Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

[Guest guest]

I completely relate to your fear, anger, and frustration. Neither my $40,000 in legal expenses nor my $13,000 rehab stay were helpful in "proving" that I did not drink. NOTHING, at this point, will be able to prove anything. YOU know the truth. All you can hope to do is (1) poke holes in this EtG test, (2) sell yourself to them (6 years of sobriety!, work record, letters of support, community service, etc.)

The SAMHSA advisory states that an EtG test in determining abstinence lacks sufficient specificity for use as primary or sole evidence that an individual prohibited from drinking has truly been drinking. It also states that "Legal or disciplinary action based solely on a positive EtG, is inappropriate and scientifically unsupportable." Is this their sole piece of "evidence"? Sounds as though they have completely ignored this advisory.

I am unaware of any other published studies regarding hand sanitizer's effect on EtG besides the one to which you refer.

While your 6 years of sobriety should certainly be in your favor, do not be surprised if it is used against you. ("Six years and umpteen negative EtG tests shows that you are not susceptible to false positives. You would have had one before this.")

Have you read this study: http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/IOAuSTrlhSufMepB9WoL8waThgVl9ksQPcbFM8l7t1Abb20zJG1pIbFvKKGegjWcg4WUBNkuktwx6-Cyn3u5ew/clinchem.2007.089482v1.pdf

Personally, I am more suspicious of the effect of E. coli than I am of hand sanitizers. Are you female? Do you recall any symptoms of UTI prior to your positive test? There are at least 2 others besides myself who are taking fluconazole + SMZ/TMP. Since I have started this regimen, I have not had any further positives (25 negative tests now!). I also take disulfiram. Alcohol was not my drug of choice either. The "powers that be" don't seem to care about that. Prior to starting the antibiotic regimen, my observed Antabuse log saved my butt from being pulled from work in the presence of one of my many positive EtGs. I have never had any adverse effects from any of the three meds (disulfiram since July '07, fluconazole QOD since Feb '08 and SMZ/TMP QD since May '08).

Finally, please know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE. This fact has comforted me and the others on this message board have helped me enormously. I was recently told "You, Lorie, are the only one who is having such enormous problems with this test." What an ignorant statement! And a lie! There are so many people with stories similar to yours. I do not "discount" your situation as a slight inconvenience or chalk it up to "wreckage from the past". It is the result of a lab test that was prematurely marketed with inadequate scientific studies. Even in the light of significant problems, those making money from it choose to line their pockets with its proceeds rather than do the necessary research. Greed, pure and simple!

Enough ranting from me...Happy Thanksgiving to you all!

Lorie

[Guest guest]

If you are washing/inhaling Purell 62% of the alcohol will go into the blood easily producinga level of 1500ng/ml...It also could be kicked up if you are taking any liver metabolized drugs specifically Tylenol and/or Psych drugs like SSRI.EtG has been discredited as sole legal evidence of consumption See SMHSA black box warningmany states no longer useMight contact Dr Greg Skipper he is THE expert should be able to help you...www.ethylglucuronide.homestead.com

Dr. R. Liepman presented an experiment on the EtG test that he conducted using 24 abstinent subjects.One group of subjects washed their hands with Purell (62% alcohol)

15 times at 4-minute intervals in a small enclosed room where,

presumably, they would be inhaling the fumes from the washing. Each of

those subjects was accompanied by another subject who did not wash

their hands but stood close enough for inhalation.

A third group washed their hands in an air-flow chamber to prevent inhalation, and a fourth group served as controls.Three of the subjects who washed their hands and could inhale the

sanitizer had positive EtG tests 30 minutes after washing, as did one

of the subjects observing in the same room, said Dr. Liepman, director

of addiction psychiatry and research at Michigan State University's

Kalamazoo Center for Medical Studies.

That observer had a level of 350 ng/mL, while the cutoff used for a

positive test in the experiment was 100 ng/mL, the same cutoff that is

generally used out in the field.

None of the subjects who washed in the air-flow chamber had a positive test, though there were detectable levels.Breathalyzer tests given to the subjects did not suggest any level of impairment.The results confirmed that use of alcohol-containing hand wash can

influence the EtG test, and the primary means appears to be inhalation,

Dr. Liepman said.

"Recovering alcoholics, including those who are subject to urine

monitoring, should avoid the use of alcohol-based hand sanitizer," he

said.Dr. Liepman said he was motivated to perform the experiment because

two nurses in his practice, both of whom were recovering opiate addicts

and both of whom were pregnant, had tested positive for ethyl

glucuronide and violated their recovery employment contracts, he said.Both of the nurses were suspended for 1 month, just at the time

they needed to be accumulating vacation hours so they could take time

off for the birth of their babies.Both denied drinking, neither tested positive for any other drugs, and both were doing well on the job.One nurse measured 270 ng/mL on the EtG test, while the other measured 215 ng/mL, levels that might be considered fairly low for a

substance abuser who has fallen off the wagon, since two drinks can

produce a level of 23,000 ng/mL, Dr. Liepman said.Both nurses reported washing their hands with sanitizerFrom: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@...>Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored DocEthylglucuronide Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:00 AM

Hi all,

I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

cocaine.

I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl alcohol

and I use it up to 100 times a day.

Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect of

hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

showed highest levels at 700.

I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help me

you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

From Dr.Skipper's site would also get them to test your split forEtS more accurate then EtGWhen testing individuals in monitoring using EtG or EtS it is important

to warn them to avoid products containing ethanol (alcohol) and to give

them a list of the products to avoid. Regarding fumes of alcohol from

handgel or perfumes, recommending that they use simple effort to avoid

excessive breathing of these products and/or that they use them in well

ventilated areas is usually adequate to avoid positive tests. They

should be warned to avoid foods, mouthwash, otc meds, and fumes of

alcohol. If they must use alcohol gels for hand cleaning, they should

avoid the fumes by holding their hands away from the face, and using

the gel in a well-ventilated area, if possible. Despite all warnings,

some individuals still have relatively low positives (less than

1,500ng/ml) from incidental exposure.From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@...>Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored DocEthylglucuronide Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:00 AM

Hi all,

I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

cocaine.

I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl alcohol

and I use it up to 100 times a day.

Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect of

hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

showed highest levels at 700.

I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help me

you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

I had a total of 4 positive ETG tests ranging from 250 to 850. I went through HELL trying to figure out what I was doing that was causing these results. The harder I tried to avoid ANYTHING that might possibly cause a positive test, the higher my ETG results were coming back! It was insane!

Thankfully, I was able to complete diversion and have been out now for a little over a year. I still get utter joy out of being able to eat, fill my gas tank, put on perfumes and lotions, etc. without fear now. But, I don't forget those who are still stuck in this ETG mess. I just want to offer hope that it is possible to have positive ETGs and get out of this thing eventually. I was removed from work as well, and that was a nightmare. But, I kept doing what I needed to do for my sobriety and my sanity (what little I had left at that point), and after a couple of weeks I was able to return to work.

I did stop every single med, except when I had a UTI, then I had to take Bactim or Macrobid. Otherwise, I would not take any OTC or prescription meds at all. After I did that I did not have any more positive results. I had been taking Ditropan and 2 Advil BID. But I will never know if they were the cause or not.

Good Luck to you and let us know how things turn out.

Robin

From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@...>Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored DocEthylglucuronide Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

Hi all,I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I amalmost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stoppracticing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice wascocaine.I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVEthat I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused thisintermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is myconstant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl alcoholand I use it up to 100 times a day. Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect ofhand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study whichshowed highest levels at 700. I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need helpgoing into this evaluation on Sunday. If

anyone out there can help meyou may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Please get a urine analysis and a urine culture. E. coli can make etg. You do not have to have an infection. Dr. Dan

Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

Ethylglucuronide

Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 11:00 AM

Hi all,

I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

cocaine.

I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl alcohol

and I use it up to 100 times a day.

Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect of

hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

showed highest levels at 700.

I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help me

you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

Listen to 350+ music, sports, news radio stations including songs for the holidays FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now!

[Guest guest]

Today I just had a urine screen using the EtG test. Yes, hand

sanitizer is a big offender in giving positive results to this test.

I did not know I was going to be tested today so I bathed, put lotion

on, deoderant, perfume and hairspray (first ingredient is alcohol).

So we'll see what happens. I am not in a diversion program-just OP

Tx, but still, it matters to me.

The US Substance Abuse and Mental Health Assoc. has officially deemed

that the EtG test is unreliable because of all of it's inherent

problems.

>

> From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@...>

> Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

> Ethylglucuronide

> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi all,

> I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

> almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

> practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

> I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

> cocaine.

> I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

> that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

> I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

> intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

> constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl

alcohol

> and I use it up to 100 times a day.

> Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect

of

> hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

> showed highest levels at 700.

> I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

> going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help

me

> you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm glad to hear you are not in a Diversion program--that could be a

death blow!

I think the thing that bugs me the most about this test is

the " occult " triggers--such as taking tylenol, or possibly some

other meds, like wellbutryn. I don't believe that link has been

scientifically documented, but there is plenty of empirical evidence

on this site. It's insulting to medical proffesionals to be

asked " did you use mouthwash with alcohol? " on their 3rd or 7th or

23rd positive test. We're not stupid. Generally if we have made an

obvious mistake like that, or even like using Purell, we KNOW it.

It's the things that we DON'T know that cause positives, which is

killing us!!

Good luck, I hope it turns out ok. I'm still fighting for my license

and I have been clean and sober since 2002. I haven't had a drink

since 1998. Go figure!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keep The Faith~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Eva

> >

> > From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@>

> > Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

> > Ethylglucuronide

> > Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> > I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

> > almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

> > practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

> > I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

> > cocaine.

> > I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to

PROVE

> > that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

> > I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

> > intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

> > constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl

> alcohol

> > and I use it up to 100 times a day.

> > Does anyone out there know of any published research on the

effect

> of

> > hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

> > showed highest levels at 700.

> > I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need

help

> > going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can

help

> me

> > you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If hand sanitizer is an issue, quit using it. Return to soap, water and friction. Yes it sucks but the fact is when in diversion you do what you have to do.Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 3, 2009, at 11:43, "caitcmorgan" <caitcmorgan@...> wrote:

Today I just had a urine screen using the EtG test. Yes, hand

sanitizer is a big offender in giving positive results to this test.

I did not know I was going to be tested today so I bathed, put lotion

on, deoderant, perfume and hairspray (first ingredient is alcohol).

So we'll see what happens. I am not in a diversion program-just OP

Tx, but still, it matters to me.

The US Substance Abuse and Mental Health Assoc. has officially deemed

that the EtG test is unreliable because of all of it's inherent

problems.

>

> From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@...>

> Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

> Ethylglucuronide

> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi all,

> I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

> almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

> practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

> I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

> cocaine.

> I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

> that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

> I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

> intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

> constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl

alcohol

> and I use it up to 100 times a day.

> Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect

of

> hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

> showed highest levels at 700.

> I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

> going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help

me

> you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

The whole purpose of RANDOM testing is that you never know when...

if you are lathering yourself with ethanol and taking liver metabolizing drugs

on ANY day you have been and are headed for low level positives

empower yourself by reviewing info below and staying away from above...

Ethyl Glucuronide - EtG - Information

Information regarding ethyl glucuronide, ethylglucuronide, EtG testing. This test is used to verify and encourage abstinence from alcohol use.ethylglucuronide.homestead.com - Cached

Today I just had a urine screen using the EtG test. Yes, hand sanitizer is a big offender in giving positive results to this test.I did not know I was going to be tested today so I bathed, put lotion on, deoderant, perfume and hairspray (first ingredient is alcohol). So we'll see what happens. I am not in a diversion program-just OP Tx, but still, it matters to me.The US Substance Abuse and Mental Health Assoc. has officially deemed that the EtG test is unreliable because of all of it's inherent problems.> > From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@. ..>> Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored Doc> Ethylglucuronide> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM> > > > > > > Hi all,> I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am> almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop> practicing because I came

up with a positive EtG at 1511.> I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was> cocaine.> I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE> that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!> I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this> intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my> constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl alcohol> and I use it up to 100 times a day. > Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect of> hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which> showed highest levels at 700. > I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help> going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help me> you may save the career of an innocent doc.

Thanks.>

[Guest guest]

The hand sanitizer is an issue. Problem is it is only one of an unknown number of substances that can cause a false positive. Do stop using it, but don't expect that to keep you out of the EtG nightmare. Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

> Ethylglucuronide

> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi all,

> I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

> almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

> practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

> I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

> cocaine.

> I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

> that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

> I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

> intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

> constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl

alcohol

> and I use it up to 100 times a day.

> Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect

of

> hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

> showed highest levels at 700.

> I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

> going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help

me

> you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

I have used 70% etoh sanitizer for 3 years several times a day like 5

to 6 and never been called in. So either I don't make etg, or they

don't use the test anymore. I am thinking they don't use the test. I

work in an OR and ETOH is unavoidable --- all my prep solutions smell

like a giant vodka martini.

> >

> > From: mpetrodoc <mpetrodoc@>

> > Subject: Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

> > Ethylglucuronide

> > Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> > I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

> > almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

> > practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

> > I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

> > cocaine.

> > I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

> > that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

> > I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

> > intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

> > constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl

> alcohol

> > and I use it up to 100 times a day.

> > Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect

> of

> > hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

> > showed highest levels at 700.

> > I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

> > going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help

> me

> > you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Really wish they didn't use the test but they do. They are less likely to react to the low levels that are a result of the hand sanitizer use, but they most certainly still use it. Positive EtG in a monitored Doc

> > Ethylglucuronide

> > Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 9:00 AM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> > I am a physician being monitored by New York's medical board. I am

> > almost 6 years sober now. Last week the board called me to stop

> > practicing because I came up with a positive EtG at 1511.

> > I don't drink! I never have liked alcohol. My drug of choice was

> > cocaine.

> > I now have to go for a $4000 independent medical evaluation to PROVE

> > that I have not been drinking. Guilty until proven innocent!

> > I am trying to figure out what could have possibly caused this

> > intermediate high level. The only thing I can come up with is my

> > constant use of the hospital hand sanitizer. It has 62% ethyl

> alcohol

> > and I use it up to 100 times a day.

> > Does anyone out there know of any published research on the effect

> of

> > hand sanitizer on EtG level? I was able to find one study which

> > showed highest levels at 700.

> > I can't figure out any other possible reason for this and need help

> > going into this evaluation on Sunday. If anyone out there can help

> me

> > you may save the career of an innocent doc. Thanks.

> >

>