Re: EtG and EtS

[Guest guest]

EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a group of enzymes under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US Drug Testing Labs does confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive specimens. Here's their rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to whether a specimen is truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction of EtG as a re-confirmation barrier. Also, if you are testing positive for EtG because you are a hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation of the enzyme system by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the threshold cutoff for EtS but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along with EtG in about 95% of the positive specimens they report out.

EtG and EtS

I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't it? I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations behind their choices (money).

[Guest guest]

So does that mean that ets is really " confirmatory? " Or are they just saying

that cause

theoretically it sounds good and they are supposed to HAVE a " confirmatory " type

test?

Isn't it like comparing two different things? And when we get told that we have

a + etg,

does that automatically mean that we have a + ets (except for 5%?) Don't mean to

sound

stupid, just don't quite understand...

>

> EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a group of

enzymes

under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US Drug Testing

Labs does

confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive specimens. Here's

their

rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to whether a

specimen is

truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction of EtG as a

re-

confirmation barrier. Also, if you are testing positive for EtG because you are

a

hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation of the enzyme

system

by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the threshold

cutoff for EtS

but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along with EtG in

about 95% of

the positive specimens they report out.

>

> EtG and EtS

>

>

> I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today

> (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS

> as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs

> do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why

> do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at

> the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't

> it?

>

> I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just

> curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations

> behind their choices (money).

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much, Lorie for the information--leave it to a pharmacist! I just wondered if the two tests together give a better picture of whether or not someone has ben drinking as the EtG alone. So EtS alone doesn't give a positive, positive conclusion that a person has injested alcoholic beverages? Lorie Garlick <lorieg@...> wrote: EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a group of enzymes under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US Drug Testing

Labs does confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive specimens. Here's their rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to whether a specimen is truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction of EtG as a re-confirmation barrier. Also, if you are testing positive for EtG because you are a hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation of the enzyme system by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the threshold cutoff for EtS but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along with EtG in about 95% of the positive specimens they report out. EtG and EtS I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't it? I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just curious to learn as much as I can about this and

the motivations behind their choices (money).

[Guest guest]

Since none of the existing biomarkers is optimal, research to identify an accurate, easy–to–measure, low–cost, nonreactive marker of drinking continues to be a priority. Research could also determine the best manner for combining and scoring relapse biomarkers. hi c,EtS is being reseached for role as above,hence they pay...still very experimental,basically has all the same problems as EtG because it operates off the other obscure liver pathway...sulfation...regards,r"Carol J. Basbcock" <carolandalynn@...> wrote: I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't it? I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations behind their choices (money).

[Guest guest]

I am just hoping that now they don't think that the combination of Etg/Ets being positive gives the right to take action. The advisory says no action based soley on a positive test....does that mean some will use TWO unsceintifically based tests in combination to prosecute...time will tell. Fact is, is 95% of positive Etg tests are also positive for Ets, then Ets doesn't differentiate beverage alcohol from exposure anymore then Etg can. Just my thoughts. Alynn Babcock <carolandalynn@...> wrote: Thank you so much, Lorie for the information--leave it to a pharmacist! I just wondered if the two tests together give a better picture of whether or not someone has ben drinking as the EtG alone. So EtS alone doesn't give a positive, positive conclusion that a person has injested alcoholic beverages? Lorie Garlick <lorieglanset> wrote: EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a group of enzymes under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US Drug Testing Labs does confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive specimens. Here's their rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to whether a specimen is truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction of EtG as a re-confirmation barrier.

Also, if you are testing positive for EtG because you are a hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation of the enzyme system by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the threshold cutoff for EtS but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along with EtG in about 95% of the positive specimens they report out. EtG and EtS I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't it? I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations behind their choices (money).

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

RIGHT ON, ! Here's the way I think the dual assay came about. First, there was EtG. Then came the study on false negative EtGs from bacterial degradation. For myself, my retest, while still positive for EtG, was only 21% of the original level (The level dropped from 1100 to 230). Others here were REFUSED a retest. USDTL developed the EtG/EtS so that people would be afforded a retest even though there was virtual certainty that the retest would also be positive for EtG, EtS, or both. I'm told that the two tests (EtG and EtS) are run in the same batch and it does not cost any more to run one than two. I'm guessing LabCorp has some contractual agreement with USDTL to provide this service. Rest assured the cost of this service has been included in your testing fees! When I did inpatient testing with Purell, I used this dual assay. ALL of my tests were positive for both EtG and EtS way over the cutoffs for either one.

EtG and EtS

I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't it? I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations behind their choices (money).

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

Is this a new decision on thier part?? However even if the lab does the testing they have to report the ordered results to the entity that ordered it. So is this a method of research for them??

EtG and EtS

I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today

(great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS

as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs

do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why

do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at

the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't

it?

I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just

curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations

behind their choices (money).

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Lorie for clarifying!!

Re: EtG and EtS

RIGHT ON, ! Here's the way I think the dual assay came about. First, there was EtG. Then came the study on false negative EtGs from bacterial degradation. For myself, my retest, while still positive for EtG, was only 21% of the original level (The level dropped from 1100 to 230). Others here were REFUSED a retest. USDTL developed the EtG/EtS so that people would be afforded a retest even though there was virtual certainty that the retest would also be positive for EtG, EtS, or both. I'm told that the two tests (EtG and EtS) are run in the same batch and it does not cost any more to run one than two. I'm guessing LabCorp has some contractual agreement with USDTL to provide this service. Rest assured the cost of this service has been included in your testing fees! When I did inpatient testing with Purell, I used this dual assay. ALL of my tests were positive for both EtG and EtS way over the cutoffs for either one.

EtG and EtS

I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today

(great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS

as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs

do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why

do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at

the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't

it?

I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just

curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations

behind their choices (money).

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for clarifying Robin, you rock.

> >

> > EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a group of

enzymes

> under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US Drug Testing

Labs

does

> confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive specimens.

Here's their

> rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to whether a

specimen is

> truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction of EtG as

a re-

> confirmation barrier. Also, if you are testing positive for EtG because you

are a

> hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation of the

enzyme system

> by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the threshold

cutoff for

EtS

> but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along with EtG

in about 95%

of

> the positive specimens they report out.

> >

> > EtG and EtS

> >

> >

> > I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested today

> > (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an EtS

> > as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs

> > do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why

> > do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at

> > the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't

> > it?

> >

> > I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm just

> > curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations

> > behind their choices (money).

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Murray,

I am not at all well-versed with regards to the other possible

biomarkers for alcohol consumption but, based on what you are

saying, it sounds as if, in theory, EtS would have the same pitfalls

as EtG. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

>

> Xenobiotic Metabolism

> An examination of the fate of foreign compounds (xenobiotics) in

biological systems is a natural outgrowth of man's curiosity about

his environment, and his susceptibility to it. While most modern

studies concern the fate of drugs in man and animals, there are also

investigations into the fate of organic compounds in plants, fruit

flies, nematodes and easts. The term " xenobiotic " was coined to

cover all compounds that are " foreign " to the organism under study.

In some situations, this is loosely defined to include naturally

present compounds administered by alternate routes or at " unnatural "

concentrations.

> This historical calendar, a joint project of Bioanalytical

Systems, Inc. (BAS) and the International Society for the Study of

Xenobiotics (ISSX), portrays some of the pioneering studies in

xenobiotic metabolism during the past two centuries. There is much

more science behind these stories, and this will be posted on the

ISSX web site at www.issx.org. The information presented in this

calendar is posted on the BAS web site (along with past historical

calendars on chemistry, electrochemistry and pharmaceutical

companies) at www.bioanalytical.com.

> credits

>

> ---------------------------------

> Index | Intro | The Beginning | Oxidation

> Sulfation | Glucuronides | Acetylation, Methylation

> Reduction | Mercapturic Acid | Founding of the Field

> Drug Metabolism Methodology | In Vitro Technology | P-450

> The Future

>

> amy, you are right they are fos...basically when an etoh

molecule hits the liver

> one of only 3 things can happen..

>

> 1)the usual,oxidation,dehydrogentation,with ADH,happening in

198/200 etoh moles.

>

> 2)the very unusual,glucuronidation,forming EtG...1/200 etoh

molecules...

>

> 3)the other very unusual,sulfation,forming EtS.....1/200 etoh

molecules...

>

> the tests are different,not confirmatory,too rare to ever really

indicate much of anything at low level to really say what is going

on because of endogenous ETOH...regards,r

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply Robin.

Now, can you educate me on CDT?

>

> you are 100% correct gf,glucuronidation and sulfation are the two

very similar but different leftover liver biochemical pathways from

when we were lower forms kind of like the appendix or the sacrum is

a remnant of a tail...they are trivial vestigial pathways not used

much but always used a little,maybe .005% of hepatic function,

compared to oxidation/deydrogenation with ADH unless that pathway is

blocked by a drug(different psych drugs) or liver damage such that

the glucuronide and sulfide pumps are primed and become upregulated

(apap)...as such one test has much the same pitfalls as the the

other...the bottom line is that both tests have too much exponential

variability at low levels to be a true reflection of liver etoh

metabolism per lorie's recent post of up to 15X variability,so that

even values upwardsof 2500 ng/ml are in theory statistically

possible..if you will search the history of xenobiology it is most

interesting how these pathways were discovered per my recent

> post below..i am just plain robin by the way..if i am fos call

me on it...degrees are like baby thermometers here,you know what we

do with those...regards,r

[Guest guest]

You lost me, Robin. I don't get it...

> > >

> > > EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a

group of enzymes

> > under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US

Drug Testing Labs

> does

> > confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive

specimens. Here's their

> > rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to

whether a specimen is

> > truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction

of EtG as a re-

> > confirmation barrier. Also, if you are testing positive for EtG

because you are a

> > hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation

of the enzyme system

> > by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the

threshold cutoff for

> EtS

> > but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along

with EtG in about 95%

> of

> > the positive specimens they report out.

> > >

> > > EtG and EtS

> > >

> > >

> > > I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested

today

> > > (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an

EtS

> > > as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs

> > > do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why

> > > do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at

> > > the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't

> > > it?

> > >

> > > I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm

just

> > > curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations

> > > behind their choices (money).

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.

Small Business.

>

[Guest guest]

Lorie must be younger than us Robin, I do remember, I managed to not

kill those brain cells...........:)Joy

> > > >

> > > > EtS is another metabolic product of ethanol that is produced by a

> group of enzymes

> > > under different genetic control than is the UGT enzyme system. US

> Drug Testing Labs

> > does

> > > confirmatory EtG/EtS panels for LabCorp for all their positive

> specimens. Here's their

> > > rationale for the dual assay...to remove any possible doubt as to

> whether a specimen is

> > > truly positive and to remove the bacterial glucuronidase destruction

> of EtG as a re-

> > > confirmation barrier. Also, if you are testing positive for EtG

> because you are a

> > > hyperproducer of EtG (i.e. genetically predisposed or upregulation

> of the enzyme system

> > > by meds like Tylenol or estrogens), you may actually test below the

> threshold cutoff for

> > EtS

> > > but test positive for EtG. According to USDTL, EtS is present along

> with EtG in about 95%

> > of

> > > the positive specimens they report out.

> > > >

> > > > EtG and EtS

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don't know much about this, so I'm asking the group. I tested

> today

> > > > (great) and the lab owner said thy use EtG but follow it up wth an

> EtS

> > > > as a confirmation test. Why not just do the EtS alone? Do our labs

> > > > do both? I don't think so. Is the EtS more specific and if so, why

> > > > do all our labs do EtG only? When both are done, is the 2nd one at

> > > > the lab's expense? It always comes down to money with them-doesn't

> > > > it?

> > > >

> > > > I really apprciate any informtion anyone can give me on this--I'm

> just

> > > > curious to learn as much as I can about this and the motivations

> > > > behind their choices (money).

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.

> Small Business.

> >

>